Sabbath and bible feasts

[Amanah]

Jessie White teaching on Mystery Babylon

https://youtu.be/2SUx1akQTqE

[Nicodemus1968]

Some of you that have been part of AFF for a while could you direct me (if there is) to the place where the following verse is mentioned in your discussion on Sabbath keeping?

Exodus 16:29
See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

I'm studying when the law changed that families/individuals could leave their house on the Sabbath. Some of you may be familiar with techum shabbat which in general means a limited space of mobility around your home. I believe it's measured by 2000 cubics or in our modern measurement of 3000 ft. Wondering if that was practiced in Ancient times, or is that more of a recent historian belief?

Appreciate the response.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Some of you that have been part of AFF for a while could you direct me (if there is) to the place where the following verse is mentioned in your discussion on Sabbath keeping?

Exodus 16:29
See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

I'm studying when the law changed that families/individuals could leave their house on the Sabbath. Some of you may be familiar with techum shabbat which in general means a limited space of mobility around your home. I believe it's measured by 2000 cubics or in our modern measurement of 3000 ft. Wondering if that was practiced in Ancient times, or is that more of a recent historian belief?

Appreciate the response.

And the whole congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and Aaron in the wilderness: And the children of Israel said unto them, Would to God we had died by the hand of the LORD in the land of Egypt, when we sat by the flesh pots, and when we did eat bread to the full; for ye have brought us forth into this wilderness, to kill this whole assembly with hunger. Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no. And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily. And Moses and Aaron said unto all the children of Israel, At even, then ye shall know that the LORD hath brought you out from the land of Egypt: And in the morning, then ye shall see the glory of the LORD; for that he heareth your murmurings against the LORD: and what are we, that ye murmur against us? And Moses said, This shall be, when the LORD shall give you in the evening flesh to eat, and in the morning bread to the full; for that the LORD heareth your murmurings which ye murmur against him: and what are we? your murmurings are not against us, but against the LORD. And Moses spake unto Aaron, Say unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, Come near before the LORD: for he hath heard your murmurings. And it came to pass, as Aaron spake unto the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and, behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: speak unto them, saying, At even ye shall eat flesh, and in the morning ye shall be filled with bread; and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God. And it came to pass, that at even the quails came up, and covered the camp: and in the morning the dew lay round about the host. And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground. And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat. This is the thing which the LORD hath commanded, Gather of it every man according to his eating, an omer for every man, according to the number of your persons; take ye every man for them which are in his tents. And the children of Israel did so, and gathered, some more, some less. And when they did mete it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; they gathered every man according to his eating. And Moses said, Let no man leave of it till the morning. Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them. And they gathered it every morning, every man according to his eating: and when the sun waxed hot, it melted. And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning. And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein. And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field. Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none. And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. So the people rested on the seventh day.
(Exo 16:2-30)

The issue had nothing to do with being able to leave one's tent. It had everything to do with people going out on the Sabbath and trying to gather manna. This was a test to see if they would walk in His ways or not. Some of the people would not. They tried to keep manna from one day to the next, which God said don't do. They tried to gather manna on the Sabbath, which God said don't do. (Consider also that on the Sabbath day people came to Moses to point out they had gotten twice as much manna, and Moses gave instruction to the people. Obviously people were outside of their tents, this was a campground with about 2-3 million people in it. Nobody got scolded for being outside of their tents. Then some went out and tried to gather manna, and found none, etc. The scolding was in regard to hunting for manna, ie trying to do work on the Sabbath.)

Later on, the Pharisees developed the idea of the "sabbath day's journey", which was the distance one could travel from one's home on the sabbath without incurring guilt for doing work. Travelling a long distance was considered an enticement to work or engage in business, so they said everybody could only go so far and no more. Unless you brought something from the house and dropped it at the boundary of the sabbath day's journey, then you could go another sabbath day's journey's from THAT point. Pharisees were all about those loopholes.

[coksiw]

Amen, Esaias!

People trying to defend their anti-Sabbath position by making the Law look ridiculous, forgetting that the author of the Law is God, and the Law of the Lord is good, making the simple wise, and giving understanding to the heart.

Pharisees brought the “fences” or traditions in form of incorrect interpretation that would supposedly keep you far away from breaking the law.
Pharisees had other issues but it is out of the scope of this thread.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Amen, Esaias!

People trying to defend their anti-Sabbath position by making the Law look ridiculous, forgetting that the author of the Law is God, and the Law of the Lord is good, making the simple wise, and giving understanding to the heart.

Pharisees brought the “fences” or traditions in form of incorrect interpretation that would supposedly keep you far away from breaking the law.
Pharisees had other issues but it is out of the scope of this thread.

I don’t think the law is ridiculous. The law was to lead us to Christ. The law never made any person righteous, but on the contrary made us sinners. Personally I believe that all this getting back to OT law is a departure from the grace of Jesus Christ and brings us back into Condemnation. I believe that the Spirit leads us into righteous living and we read the scriptures as a whole to get application. The NT has letters explicitly to the churches that contain the apostles doctrine and that is what we must continue in.

It is funny that you have been adamant about tithing being a false teaching, but sabbath observance is for us today. How do you distinguish which laws are applicable and which are not, without being inconsistent?

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I don’t think the law is ridiculous. The law was to lead us to Christ. The law never made any person righteous, but on the contrary made us sinners. Personally I believe that all this getting back to OT law is a departure from the grace of Jesus Christ and brings us back into Condemnation. I believe that the Spirit leads us into righteous living and we read the scriptures as a whole to get application. The NT has letters explicitly to the churches that contain the apostles doctrine and that is what we must continue in.

It is funny that you have been adamant about tithing being a false teaching, but sabbath observance is for us today. How do you distinguish which laws are applicable and which are not, without being inconsistent?

Well, as I said, I am not a Sabbath keeper, but I disagree with the reasoning you and Originalist use to defend your position.

The fact that it is strange to you that I esteem the OT at the level you don’t and yet I have a strong position against modern tithing shows how confused you are.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Well, as I said, I am not a Sabbath keeper, but I disagree with the reasoning you and Originalist use to defend your position.

The fact that it is strange to you that I esteem the OT at the level you don’t and yet I have a strong position against modern tithing shows how confused you are.

You are saying you are not a sabbath keeper, but yet contending for the point. If I believed that we are still commanded to keep the feasts and sabbaths, I would do my best to observe them, but many NT epistles explain in depth that we are not under the law. If we where still keeping the laws of the old covenant we would also have to observ sabbatical years as well. Also we would be in sin to collect interest from money loaned because the old covenant forbid usury. I can probably demonstrate a lot scenario’s that would present problems to our modern lifestyles.

If people want to consecrate their entire Saturdays to resting and worship there is not a thing wrong with that, but I am not pagan because I disagree about the necessity of that. I personally believe that you are casting a stumbling block to the people you are discipling when you go telling them they must refrain from work every Saturday and in keeping Jewish feast days.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I don’t think the law is ridiculous. The law was to lead us to Christ. The law never made any person righteous, but on the contrary made us sinners.

The law doesn't make anyone a sinner. Does the law prohibiting theft make you a thief? Of course not, your own thieving makes you a thief.

Personally I believe that all this getting back to OT law is a departure from the grace of Jesus Christ and brings us back into Condemnation.

That's because you are under conviction and are looking for a way out. The only way out though is REPENTANCE.

I believe that the Spirit leads us into righteous living and we read the scriptures as a whole to get application.

Except those Scriptures that interfere with your traditions, amen?

The NT has letters explicitly to the churches that contain the apostles doctrine and that is what we must continue in.

Yes, like these:

2 Timothy 3:15-17 KJV
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

1 John 3:4-10 KJV
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. [5] And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. [6] Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. [7] Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. [8] He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. [9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [10] In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Romans 6:1-2 KJV
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:14-18 KJV
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. [15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. [16] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? [17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. [18] Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.


Romans 8:1-7 KJV
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. [3] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4] That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [5] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. [6] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. [7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Matthew 19:16-17 KJV
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? [17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 4:4 KJV
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Revelation 12:17 KJV
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

It is funny that you have been adamant about tithing being a false teaching, but sabbath observance is for us today. How do you distinguish which laws are applicable and which are not, without being inconsistent?

Every Word of God is applicable and relevant to us within its own context and the larger context of the entirety of Scripture. It is YOU that are wholly inconsistent because you cherry pick what you think is applicable and which is not based solely on your traditions and personal preferences. For example, you believe the Second Commandment applies, but not the Fourth. You believe Deut 22:5 applies, but not Deut 22:8. You like Lev 19:17-18, but not Lev 19:19. You like Lev 19:26, but not Lev 19:27. And so on and so forth.

Tithing isn't a false doctrine. Rather the idea that everyone needs to pay the pastor (or the 501c3 corporation calling itself a "church") 10% of their gross wages from whatever source derived in cash, check, or credit card, usually with a corresponding tax deduction from the government, IS a false doctrine, because it is CONTRARY TO THE LAW OF GOD.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Tithing isn't a false doctrine. Rather the idea that everyone needs to pay the pastor (or the 501c3 corporation calling itself a "church") 10% of their gross wages from whatever source derived in cash, check, or credit card, usually with a corresponding tax deduction from the government, IS a false doctrine, because it is CONTRARY TO THE LAW OF GOD.

And here we can see the difference between the antinomian and the theonomist. The antinomian may be against the false doctrine calling itself "tithing", but on what basis? Solely personal preference and feels. Meanwhile, another antinomian loves the modern "tithe" teaching. How to determine which is correct? Both antinomians have nothing to go on except personal opinion and perhaps tradition.

But the theonomist simply points to Thus Saith The Lord, book chapter and verse, and the issue is settled. God is God, He gets to be the decider of the issue. Whereas for the antinomian, Man is God and decides the issue. And thus, for the antinomian, the issue never actually gets decided, with any Divine Authority.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The issue had nothing to do with being able to leave one's tent. It had everything to do with people going out on the Sabbath and trying to gather manna. This was a test to see if they would walk in His ways or not. Some of the people would not. They tried to keep manna from one day to the next, which God said don't do. They tried to gather manna on the Sabbath, which God said don't do. (Consider also that on the Sabbath day people came to Moses to point out they had gotten twice as much manna, and Moses gave instruction to the people. Obviously people were outside of their tents, this was a campground with about 2-3 million people in it. Nobody got scolded for being outside of their tents. Then some went out and tried to gather manna, and found none, etc. The scolding was in regard to hunting for manna, ie trying to do work on the Sabbath.)

Later on, the Pharisees developed the idea of the "sabbath day's journey", which was the distance one could travel from one's home on the sabbath without incurring guilt for doing work. Travelling a long distance was considered an enticement to work or engage in business, so they said everybody could only go so far and no more. Unless you brought something from the house and dropped it at the boundary of the sabbath day's journey, then you could go another sabbath day's journey's from THAT point. Pharisees were all about those loopholes.

I'm studying both sides of the argument of traditional Sabbath Keeping or a Modern Sabbath Keeping. As you obviously hold the belief of the Traditional Sabbath Keeper, Im interested in knowing, what is your understanding what "work" is considered sabbath breaking?

Let me explain a little further, we read in the Exodus 16 about how they were to say home, and as you explained was based on the reason on not to gather manna on the Sabbath. Yet, like in the highlighted section, it gives us an insight as to what the Lord considered to be work. Just simply picking up enough manna for the size of family you had was considered work.

With that in mind, in our modern time, what is work? To the extent of breaking the Sabbath.