Did Jesus Christ Have The Ability To Sin ?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by RunningOnFaith

Concerning weather or not a Christ who could not sin would be sufficient to redeem humanity, I would say that a Christ seperated from diety could not redeem the human family. The death of a man who isn't God would't be sufficient to atone for the sins of the world.

All it took to atone for the sins of the world was a sinless man. But there was no man found to fill the breach, so God did what man could not do.

If Jesus overcame sin because he was God and used his divine power to resist temptation, what hope do we have of overcoming temtation? We would all need to be God.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

All it took to atone for the sins of the world was a sinless man. But there was no man found to fill the breach, so God did what man could not do.

If Jesus overcame sin because he was God and used his divine power to resist temptation, what hope do we have of overcoming temtation? We would all need to be God.

I think that's why the new man ... has the Spirit of God dwelling in him, Mizpeh. His Spirit regenerates us ... and gives us that power that dwelt in Him.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by mfblume

No, I do not believe he had sinful flesh. Otherwise, someone would have had to die for Him! He was sinless. Like us and tempted like us in all points, but without sin.

There are two extremes of error, I think. One is that Jesus could not sin -- potential wise -- becuase He was God, and another error that he was just a man and not God at all. If He was just a man and not God, He had sin like we do, and could not die for our sins, since that means He'd have need of someone dying for Him! But since He is God manifested in flesh, it is the FLESH that had the capability to sin. Otherwise, it was not true flesh.

Adam, remember, was created without sin, BUT HAD THE POTENTIAL TO SIN. Same with Jesus, the LAST Adam. But Christ succeeded whiule Adam failed.

As per the thought that His divine nature was inseparable from His human nature, I DISAGREE. They are distinct natures. And His human nature COULD SIN.

My thoughts, anyway.

If you say his human nature can sin, then you are advocating Nestorianism. Can these two natures speak to each other within the man, Jesus Christ?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I think that's why the new man ... has the Spirit of God dwelling in him, Mizpeh. His Spirit regenerates us ... and gives us that power that dwelt in Him.

I agree with you with to a point, Daniel. We can overcome because we have the Spirit in us. We overcome the same way Christ overcame, He is our example, by relying on the indwelling Spirit to guide us and keep us from sin. Jesus said the Father dwelt in him, and He was full of the Holy Ghost.

This is different than saying Jesus overcame because He was God. I believe Jesus is God become flesh but I also believe, like Deacon, Jesus did not use his own divine power to overcome but relied on the indwelling Spirit to help him resist temptation.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I agree with you with to a point, Daniel. We can overcome because we have the Spirit in us. We overcome the same way Christ overcame, He is our example, by relying on the indwelling Spirit to guide us and keep us from sin. Jesus said the Father dwelt in him, and He was full of the Holy Ghost.

This is different than saying Jesus overcame because He was God. I believe Jesus is God become flesh but I also believe, like Deacon, Jesus did not use his own divine power to overcome but relied on the indwelling Spirit to help him resist temptation.

but herein lies the dilemma of those who claim to corner the understanding of the Godhead ... and I'm not implying you are making such a claim

but if I read you correctly you say Jesus did not use his divine power to overcome but relied on the indwelling Spirit ... Isn't Jesus the Holy Spirit in his divine form ??? Didnt he rely on his own divine power by relying in the Spirit the indwell in him ... unless it belonged to another entity ... or person????

I don't pretend to have the answer but the arrogance of some in our movement has put us in a precarious situation to try to explain every nuance using pre-determined and pre-defined models .... there are somethings we don't need to understand ... they add to the awesome and wonder of the fulness of the Godhead that dwelt in Christ ... it makes my stand in awe of HIM even more ...

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched ,with the feeling of our infirmities ,but was in all points tempted as we are ,yet without sin.HEBREWS.4:15

We know that Jesus Christ was the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth ,as well as being God manifest in the flesh.

We know that He was borned of a virgin ,and did not have a fallen Adamic nature ,yet He was tempted in all points like as we are yet He didn't sin.

But did Jesus Christ in His humanity have the ability or potential to sin ,had He chosen to ?

What say ye did Jesus Christ have the ability to commit sin ?

Jesus lacked an inherited sin, because He is the Son of God not the son of Adam. Without the sin virus He had no inclination to sin.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

All it took to atone for the sins of the world was a sinless man. But there was no man found to fill the breach, so God did what man could not do.

If Jesus overcame sin because he was God and used his divine power to resist temptation, what hope do we have of overcoming temtation? We would all need to be God.

I think the more and more we bear fruit to the point we consistently bear much fruit, the more we are successful at overcoming temptation...conversely, the more the body of Believers bear no fruit, the more they will see themselves fighting temptation. IMO

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

but herein lies the dilemma of those who claim to corner the understanding of the Godhead ... and I'm not implying you are making such a claim

but if I read you correctly you say Jesus did not use his divine power to overcome but relied on the indwelling Spirit ... Isn't Jesus the Holy Spirit in his divine form ??? Didnt he rely on his own divine power by relying in the Spirit the indwell in him ... unless it belonged to another entity ... or person????

Yes, Dan, you have understood what I said. But to answer your question requires a long winded answer.

Jesus made distinctions between himself and his Father. He spoke as if he were someone other than God and then other times he spoke as if he were God. Jesus said the Father that dwells in me does the works.John 14:10 Jesus spoke the words given to him by the Father. John 12:49-50, Deut 18:18-19 Jesus was anointed by God. Acts 4:27, Acts 10:38
These verses all suggest Jesus walked this earth like most of the prophets as a man anointed of God. Luke 4:1 makes another distinction between Jesus and the Holy Ghost. The confusion, in my mind anyways, sets in when the Bible clearly tells us Jesus is God manifest in the flesh as well as some of the things Jesus says sounds like something only God could attest to. John 8:58
So to answer your questions

1) Isn't Jesus the Holy Spirit in his divine form ??? Yes, Jesus is the Spirit in human form, although I don't know of a verse that specifically states the Spirit became flesh. It seems the word, Spirit, when used to describe God is used in the aspect of God in action in a specific place.

2) Didnt he rely on his own divine power by relying in the Spirit the indwell in him Yes, in a sense, but if you go by the things that Jesus said, he truly made a distinction between himself and the Spirit. John 5:30 He didn't think or perceive of himself as God, or as the Father, or even as the Holy Spirit.

3) unless it belonged to another entity ... or person NO! the Spirit is not another entity nor another person. Did you read what Deacon Blues wrote in this thread. Someone accused DB of Nestorianism and using the Kenosis theory. Well, I disagree with Nestorianism but I do agree with the arguement of the Kenosis theory but I don't go to Phil 2 to find it. I find it in Hebrews. This is my version: to become like one of us, prior to God being born a man, He decided in advance to not use or take advantage of his divine powers when becoming man. Being in human form, he was limited to time and place, he had to grow, learn, acquire wisdom, endure temptation, obey, etc, IOW, he was like us. I don't think Jesus Christ remembered the time before he became man because he functioned completely through his humanity. As a human, he needed to the anointing of God to do the miracles he did, to perceive the thoughts of men, to cast out devils...

I don't pretend to have the answer but the arrogance of some in our movement has put us in a precarious situation to try to explain every nuance using pre-determined and pre-defined models .... there are somethings we don't need to understand ... they add to the awesome and wonder of the fulness of the Godhead that dwelt in Christ ... it makes my stand in awe of HIM even more ...

I don't have anything close to a complete understanding of how God became like one of us. You may be content to leave this subject be, but I want to know Him as much as the Bible and the Spirit allow me to. Trinitarians claim to understand this mystery 1Tim 3:16. And in witnessing to them about who Jesus really is this topic inevitably comes up. I want to have a Biblical answer for them and not be accused of "dividing a person" or having a "Nestorian Christology". I also want to understand the things that Jesus said.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Jesus lacked an inherited sin, because He is the Son of God not the son of Adam. Without the sin virus He had no inclination to sin.

Call the law we agree.

[Jack Shephard]

Sure He could have. Why would He be tempted if He could not sin. Why did the Devil try and tempt Him? The reason that He did not fall into sin or bow to satan is because He said, "it is written." That was enough for Jesus to resist sin. Would He have sinned, No! But could He, sure. He is God He could do anything he wanted.