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Mormonism 101 Discuss Mormon doctrine, history, and practice


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  #51  
Old 06-14-2014, 01:51 PM
anon5 anon5 is offline
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Re: Do They Really Believe This?

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Originally Posted by shazeep View Post
this all seems to deny, to me, that the life was in God's hands. I'm not against hospitals--in other countries, where they are not abused--just what they have become here.
Yeah, I understand. I think in the end God works things out. Though I don't pretend to know the details of it all. I do support free will. I just don't believe in this day and age a woman should be forced to endure torturous agony if the means are available to prevent it.

Under no circumstances is it considered acceptable for men to lie at home writhing in pain.

Our medical ins.system is indeed broken.
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  #52  
Old 06-14-2014, 08:45 PM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: Do They Really Believe This?

to that i would say that she ultimately must be true to herself, which she obv was doing if she obeyed his wishes. she was free to sneak away, iow.
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  #53  
Old 06-14-2014, 11:11 PM
anon5 anon5 is offline
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Re: Do They Really Believe This?

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Originally Posted by shazeep View Post
to that i would say that she ultimately must be true to herself, which she obv was doing if she obeyed his wishes. she was free to sneak away, iow.
Free will is free will, but I can tell you from personal experience that a woman in labor is not often in her right mind. She is in a VERY vulnerable position. In this case, she no doubt feared some kind retribution for going against his wishes, and in labor she probably COULDN'T sneak sway, or even walk.

He chose not to be a man and take care if his vulnetable and pregnant wife, and it cost him. It's just that simple.
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  #54  
Old 06-15-2014, 09:14 AM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: Do They Really Believe This?

hmm. you gotta believe that they had discussed this beforehand--she was having a baby outside the medical system already, yes? as difficult as it may be to look in on from the outside, i'm not sure it is fair to say he failed. sometimes, for whatever reason, congenital defect, maybe (that we try to 'save,' and perpetuate even, with our human good), newborns die, it is the natural order, i would say. you can't believe that he wanted his child to die; but he was strong enough--one hopes--to trust God, even after the fact. harsh, tho.
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  #55  
Old 06-15-2014, 10:06 AM
anon5 anon5 is offline
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Re: Do They Really Believe This?

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Originally Posted by shazeep View Post
hmm. you gotta believe that they had discussed this beforehand--she was having a baby outside the medical system already, yes? as difficult as it may be to look in on from the outside, i'm not sure it is fair to say he failed. sometimes, for whatever reason, congenital defect, maybe (that we try to 'save,' and perpetuate even, with our human good), newborns die, it is the natural order, i would say. you can't believe that he wanted his child to die; but he was strong enough--one hopes--to trust God, even after the fact. harsh, tho.

Well, it wasn't a birth defect, and they didn't discuss ANYTHING. He said what they were going to do. Period. Anyway, I don't want to get fixated over arguing about this one issue. They're both gone now and so I suppose it doesn't matter.

I actually know more to the story. I just can't tell it without revealing who they are. I will say as a wife, even if something were discussed beforehand, I'd like to think my husband would step up and get help if me or our childs life were in danger.
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  #56  
Old 06-15-2014, 01:30 PM
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Timmy Timmy is offline
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Re: Do They Really Believe This?

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Originally Posted by TJJJ View Post
The problem with Mormonism is that it is demonic in origin.
No. This religions was started by humans, just as all religions were.

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Originally Posted by anon5 View Post
For example; a man I know of is currently pastoring a church where the original pastor preached against eyeglasses, watches, and doctors. At least one of his babies died because he wouldn't take his wife to the doctor when in labor. THAT'S demonic.
No. That's human.
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  #57  
Old 06-15-2014, 03:00 PM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: Do They Really Believe This?

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No. This religions was started by humans, just as all religions were.
yup
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  #58  
Old 06-15-2014, 03:01 PM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: Do They Really Believe This?

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No. That's human.
hmm, i would disagree. humans do not understand it, for the most part, right?
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  #59  
Old 06-16-2014, 12:02 AM
Monterrey Monterrey is offline
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Re: Do They Really Believe This?

Ya gotta understand, Timmy does not believe in the spirit world at all. Right Timmy?
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  #60  
Old 06-16-2014, 06:52 AM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: Do They Really Believe This?

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I'd like to think my husband would step up and get help if me or our childs life were in danger.
i have been arguing the other side because i see reflection here of "...if your kid is just completely recalcitrant, cannot be handled, stone him" paraphrased; also with the stoning of homosexuals. It seems harsh, but this is from a human pov, wherein we fear physical death, or otherwise place what i am convinced is a false significance on it--when every direct indication from God or Christ tells me that physical death is insignificant to God. It is--or at least may be--the loving thing to do in these cases. I can only imagine how hard this must have been for this father, and doubt that i could have done it myself; but there is no denying, to me, that God held this life in His hands, and God determined the time of death. To what purpose i can't imagine--seems awful harsh. just my opinion.

The alt to me seems to be, "Is my child going to die? Well, i have a better idea than God--we can go to a doctor, who can save the child's life," although i'm sure there are other valid povs.
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