Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Sanctuary > Deep Waters > Mormonism 101
Facebook

Notices

Mormonism 101 Discuss Mormon doctrine, history, and practice


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 06-06-2007, 08:30 AM
Jack Shephard's Avatar
Jack Shephard Jack Shephard is offline
Strange in a Strange Land...


 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Island
Posts: 5,511
Quote:
Originally Posted by stmatthew View Post
Their oversea's missions training is crazy. They totally submerge into the culture they are going to. They are not allowed to speak any language but the language of the country. They attend class all day, and do work all evening.
That is not all too true. When they are in different area they mostly speak that native language, however, they do not stop speaking english. I have had some of my LDS friends go to an area and speak nothing but the local language for the two years and when they get back they almost have to relearn english. I have one buddy that went to a town in TX and spoke Spanish the whole time and when he went back home and had to relearn english.

You are right when you say they emerse themselves in the culture. But that is because it makes it a whole lot easier to get on the level of the people they are reaching to. It would be that same if a foreigner came here on a mission they would try and blend in well. The only exception are the areas that can present dangerous risks. I have on e buddy that went to Malyasia and his group reached all the way in to Iraq, but the white folks could not go in there do to danger. So they the locals that are LDS go into that area.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-09-2007, 04:50 AM
Iron_Bladder
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by "GL" View Post
MorMons, not Morans...

Mormon Missionaries...

Has anyone here ever won any? I know of several former Mormons who have been won to truth, but I know of no Mormon missionaries who have been won during their mission.

Anyway, two are coming over to the "GL" house in about thirty minutes to "share." This should be interesting...


I've helped JWs out of the Watchtower, but never Mormons. Here is a letter which I wrote to two Mormons who asked me to read the book of Mormon but then never turned up. I wrote to the British Temple afterwards, I'll post that letter in my next post:

.............................................



4th January 2006


Dear Elder Woodfield,

Thank you both for leaving a copy of the book of Mormon with me, I certainly do appreciate your concern. However may I please ask you a few questions about your faith, as I’m certain that you will appreciate that with so many other religious groups proselytising and claiming that they alone have the truth, so one has to test a religion to find out if it is indeed true or not: “test all things, hold fast to what is good” (1st Thessalonians 5:21). Primarily I’ve been looking at the book of Alma, and then crossed referenced various verses with the footnote references at the bottom of the page, as well as those references in the index at the back of the book.


• The word Alma is a Hebrew word which means ‘young virgin woman.’ So why are two male figures within the book of Mormon each called ‘Alma?’ Is this a joke which those people without a grasp of basic Hebrew will miss, but those with some Bible knowledge will immediately grasp? So as it isn’t possible for a man to be an Alma; this must be a joke!

• Alma 7:10, page 224. This is blatant mistake, as it claims that Christ was born in Jerusalem, when he was in fact born in Bethlehem. See Luke 2:4 which states precisely that.

• Alma 12:22 we read that when Adam fell, as a result of his sin, he then immediately partook in Adam’s new sin nature. This is of course is the classical doctrine of original sin, and there is nothing particularly unique or unusual about this belief. However, whilst the book of Mormon has affirmed original sin at Alma 12:22, surprisingly the second article of faith denies both original sin and consequently Alma 12:22, when it sates that; “men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgressions.”

• Alma 13:1, Page 241, here Joseph Smith being uneducated has confused his tenses. People are asked to look forward, which implies a future action, but then a past tense “gave” is mistakenly used in the text. If God had inspired this book, then he would not have made such a basic mistake, as I assume that God understands the rules of grammar.

• Alma 34:36: on page 295 states that God dwells within the hearts of his people. However the Doctrine and Covenants 130:3 records a prophecy made by Joseph Smith at Rumus, Illinois on 2nd April 1843. In this prophecy (D & C 130:3), Smith claims that the standard Christian interpretation of John 14:23 is wrong, because he claims that the Father and Son cannot indwell Christians or anyone else. Yet this is precisely what John 14:23 states, the words ‘we will come to him’ obviously implies, a literal indwelling: “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him:” John 14:23 KJV.

• Alma 41:8: If the decrees of God are unalterable, then why has the Mormon Church repeatedly changed its strictures under the claimed inspiration of God? Polygamy was at first condemned as a sin (Jacob 1:15, 2:24-33), but it was then commanded (D&C 132:1), and then forbidden again in 1890 when its practice caused the American Government to threaten confiscation of all church property. The priesthood was forbidden to blacks until 1978, when the Mormon god then changed his mind again, although all senior Mormons today such as the prophet and other leaders, are all white!

• We read at Genesis 8:21, that God here states that he will never again curse the land: “I will never again curse the ground for man’s sake.” This promise was made by God to Noah, about 4,000 years ago if we regard the Biblical chronology as trustworthy. However, in the Book of Mormon at Alma 45:16, we read that God did again curse the ground, even after he promised not to do so at Genesis 8:21. It is interesting to note that Alma 45:16: “Cursed shall be the land” is dated as having taken place at about 73 BC.

• Alma 46:16: The claimed date of authorship for this section of the Book of Mormon is 73 BC. However, the Bible states at Acts 11:26, and at approximately 40 AD, that; “the disciples were first called Christians at Antioch.” So because Scripture must always harmonise with the previous revelation to be correct, how could God inspire different prophets with different contradictory truths? Why does the Book of Mormon claim the title “Christian” in 73 BC, some 113 years before it was first used at Acts 11:26?

• At Mormon 8:12 and 1st Nephi 19:6 the Book of Mormon openly admits to its own errors! So why then should trust it, if unlike the Bible this is a religious book containing admitted errors? In the light of Deuteronomy 18:18-20 and Isaiah 8:20, anybody who makes a false prophecy, even just a single false prophecy, is a false prophet.


In summary I believe that true salvation is the gift of God, and that it isn’t something that we can ever work for or contribute to (Ephesians 2:8-10). Indeed God warns us about religious groups such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses who attempt to preach a gospel based upon works – our works for God with the intention of earning us salvation. “But even though we or an angel from heaven preach any other Gospel to you, than that that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed.” (Galatians 1:8). Please notice the words ‘or an angel.’

So when God forgave me my own sins, he consequently also gave me Christ’s righteousness at the very same time, thus making me (positionally) perfect (Matthew 5:48), through my faith in Christ’s sacrifice and not by my good works. This is why right now, I can testify to you that through my faith in Christ I can stand before God without any condemnation whatsoever: “There is therefore NOW no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.” (Romans 8:1). I ask both of you to ask yourself if right now, (and not at some future point), you too have no condemnation before a holy God and so are right now – perfect? If you’re not, then you stand before God, condemned as sinners, for God only accepts perfection (Matthew 5:48), those who aren’t prefect are lost sinners who’re going to hell.

Yours faithfully

XXXXX
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-09-2007, 04:52 AM
Iron_Bladder
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by "GL" View Post
MorMons, not Morans...

Mormon Missionaries...

Has anyone here ever won any? I know of several former Mormons who have been won to truth, but I know of no Mormon missionaries who have been won during their mission.

Anyway, two are coming over to the "GL" house in about thirty minutes to "share." This should be interesting...


Here is my follow up letter to the Britsh Temple:

...........................................



18th January 2006
The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints.
The London Temple
West Park Road
Newchapel
Surrey RH7 6NB

Dear Sir,

Two Mormon missionaries Elder Woodfield and Elder McKenna called on me at my home, and so I invited a neighbour who is also a Christian in and together we both spoke to these missionaries for sometime. As my own book of Mormon is now in storage with my numerous other religious books in a friends attic, I’d read parts of the book of Mormon years ago, I thus accepted another book of Mormon and Neil and I agreed to read it in preparation for a meeting which was arranged the missionaries for last Tuesday.

That the missionaries didn’t turn up isn’t a problem, as I understand that they’re both busy men, but I did consider it extremely rude that they didn’t have the good manners to let Neil or myself know that they intended not to keep the meeting which we’d booked, especially after they’d asked us to read the Book of Mormon to which we’d both agreed and they also had my mobile number. I did see Elder Woodfield in the town centre a few days later, and he basically told me that he didn’t consider us worth a return visit as we seemed to ‘know everything.’

Having read the book of Alma in preparation for this meeting, I’m most disappointed to say the least. As I said, not turning up isn’t the problem, it’s the fact that Neil and I had our evening wasted when a simple phone call would have saved us both our valuable time. If some Church authority in interested in responding to my queries on Alma, which I’ve outlined in a letter to the Elders, then I’d certainly be most interested in reading the response.

Yours Sincerely



XXXX
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-14-2007, 11:20 AM
Jack Shephard's Avatar
Jack Shephard Jack Shephard is offline
Strange in a Strange Land...


 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Island
Posts: 5,511
I think that alot of people tend to forget that the LDS men and women are simply that men and women. They are the same as us. They are sold out and whole-heartedly believe their teachings. They are more dedicated than most pentecostals I know. I can promise you this that no one will love you and care as much as an LDS member. Pentecostals love you to a point. They only go so far then drop you. But the LDS memebers I know will love you all the way to the end.

One of my best friends is LDS she is a great lady. But she is just like me. She has temptations and faults like we all do. No one in infallable. But they have great faith in themselves and in each other. I for one wish that I was as dedicated to the cause as they are. David before he was King asked,"is there not a cause?" Well there is a cause, but some care more than others.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-04-2007, 09:03 PM
JOYoftheLord
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTULLOCK View Post
I live in Mesa/Gilbert, AZ, which has the highest count of Mormons in a single town other than Orem, UT. In my 6 yrs here I never have seen any won. But I do that there was one MM that was from a oneness back ground and I went to church with his family. When he was on his mission he would visit oneness churches and almost get involved in them. So the mission leaders would move him around to other places to continue the mission. After a while they sent him home to his oneness family and he can back into the Apostolic faith. He still is today.

Being as I live in Mormon country I see alot of them. I have made up in my mind that when ever I see them I say hello. Also when they come to door I give them bottles of water. They are the nicest people. I have heard that at one time Mormon missionaries were asked to come to talk to a class at Gateway College of Evangelism. They would go talk to the evangelism class about their regement day to day. Matt Maddix said that it caused alot of conviction on the students.

I have some pretty close friends that are LDS Latter Day Saints. They are genuine and commetted to friends and family.
I have a dear cousin who got involved in the Mormon faith when she and her husband lived in Utah a couple or so years. She was brought up in Apostolic truth just as I was....actually we are 3rd generation....but she just never would accept some things....and being a very nervous type person...said that all the screaming preachers made her nervous and afraid! lol I told her I was just as nervous and scared.....just conviction gettin hold of our hearts! We both got married at 17...I received the Holyghost for the first time the following year and she moved off with her navy husband. Those Mormons really twisted her mind in her beliefs. I agree though, that they are a very very friendly lot and very family oriented. She has recently moved back closer to me and we've been going out for lunch once in a while. She always brings up our old days as kids coming up...we were very close...still are.....and our grandmother raised her for the most part. OUr grandmother was actually a founding member of the pentecostal church in my town. She always talks about "grannie" and how she prayed and went to church and loved the Lord. The Lord is dealing with my cousin in a big way.... of that I have no doubt. But to top things off now.....her and her hubby are now attending a catholic church....he likes that church....and he too has apostolic background as his grandma also was a Holghost filled lady. It's so sad because now their 4 kids are all confused....one girl is one of the missionaries spoken of in some other posts....2 just don't go to church period....and 1 is believing he is an atheist. Please pray with me that I can somehow win them back to where they need to be in the Lord. God bless!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-12-2007, 07:55 PM
BreakingFree BreakingFree is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTULLOCK View Post
I think that alot of people tend to forget that the LDS men and women are simply that men and women. They are the same as us. They are sold out and whole-heartedly believe their teachings. They are more dedicated than most pentecostals I know. I can promise you this that no one will love you and care as much as an LDS member. Pentecostals love you to a point. They only go so far then drop you. But the LDS memebers I know will love you all the way to the end.

One of my best friends is LDS she is a great lady. But she is just like me. She has temptations and faults like we all do. No one in infallable. But they have great faith in themselves and in each other. I for one wish that I was as dedicated to the cause as they are. David before he was King asked,"is there not a cause?" Well there is a cause, but some care more than others.
This is true, they are more dedicated some Pentecostals. I remember a few years ago, Scott Graham said that mormons put us to shame in their outreach efforts. He's pretty much right. I worked for a mormon once. In fact, he was a "stake president". I'm not sure what that means, but he was over 8 area congregations. An absolutely wonderful man and family. We had many conversations. A couple times we both came in to work at 6:30-7:00 to meet in a conference room and talk beliefs. It was never confrontational. One time he had me and my son over for dinner and of course two of his missionaries were there, trying to convert me. LOL! But I never took offense, they really believe what they believe and want to help others be saved. He also told me there were prophets on the earth today. Or wait, did he say apostles. Now I can't remember.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-13-2007, 11:38 AM
DEAK
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Regarding working to win missionaries... they have an accountability structure that is pretty severe. If one looks, acts, or expresses any interest... the other rats him out and he is shipped away.....



Resistence is futile.......


You will be assimilated......
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-18-2008, 07:35 PM
gloryseeker gloryseeker is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Land of fruits and nuts - California
Posts: 1,053
Re: Mormon Missionaries

I converted my wife from the Mormon church. She was a Utah mormon. Brigham Young was her great, great, great something. All of her family except one of her brothers are still mormons.

I don't know of any missionaries who have been converted, but many former missionaries have. When talking to a missionary they are trained very well on certain topics and also how to lead the conversation. If you talk about aspects they are not familiar with they get messed up very easy. It is actually fun to talk with them.

What I have learned is that if you try and debate them you are going to get no where. If you talk to them with questions of interest they will talk to you and you can get them thinking. Most Christians are combative and ruin their own chances of reaching them. No matter what they, as are JW's are a very tough crowd to win. One of the things that make it difficult is that they know their families will disown them if they leave the church.

One area that I love discussing with them is there belief that when you die you go to this place where there are missionaries who give you another chance to accept the church. I always ask them about this and get them to tell me what they know so that they have committed themselves to a second chance doctrine, then I tell them what I believe - heaven and hell and ask who is better off me or them? If they are right I have a second chance, if I am right their in hell. It's amazing to watch their faces.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-18-2008, 07:42 PM
gloryseeker gloryseeker is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Land of fruits and nuts - California
Posts: 1,053
Re: Mormon Missionaries

Don't be confused by the facade. You can't subject yourself to satan as the mormons have and not experience kill, steal, and destroy (John 10:10). I hear often that mormons are very family oriented, but if you do some homework you will find out that mormons have some of the highest rates of spousal abuse than any other group.

BYU universities had one of the highest rates of rape of any institution.

They are loyal, but they also are loyal to a point. They will cut of family without hesitation. They are people and there are many good people in the mormon church that are just deceived. They need prayer and evangelism that is done in love. Christmas 2006, after 21 years of marriage to the daughter who grew up mormon, I finally got to pray for my sick mother-in-law. Haven't got her saved yet, but I'm still walking in love.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-18-2008, 08:38 PM
Jack Shephard's Avatar
Jack Shephard Jack Shephard is offline
Strange in a Strange Land...


 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Island
Posts: 5,511
Re: Mormon Missionaries

Quote:
Originally Posted by gloryseeker View Post
Don't be confused by the facade. You can't subject yourself to satan as the mormons have and not experience kill, steal, and destroy (John 10:10). I hear often that mormons are very family oriented, but if you do some homework you will find out that mormons have some of the highest rates of spousal abuse than any other group.

BYU universities had one of the highest rates of rape of any institution.

They are loyal, but they also are loyal to a point. They will cut of family without hesitation. They are people and there are many good people in the mormon church that are just deceived. They need prayer and evangelism that is done in love. Christmas 2006, after 21 years of marriage to the daughter who grew up mormon, I finally got to pray for my sick mother-in-law. Haven't got her saved yet, but I'm still walking in love.
Sounds like many Pentecostals I know. I think anyone of any faith acts this way whether they admit it or not. I was once this way. I would not quickly say that the Mormons have been subjected to the devil. We all have I guess, but I would not say their belief is of the devil. I would say it is a confused teaching, however, I have very close friends that are Mormon and I would rather them pray for me than some Pentecostals. They have some good and bad apples, the bad ones stink more and tend to make the good ones bad too.
__________________
"If we don't learn to live together we're gonna die alone"
Jack Shephard.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My Witness to two mormon Missionaries Iron_Bladder Missions Area 10 05-30-2007 11:17 PM
Advice to new missionaries Sister Alvear Missions Area 5 03-30-2007 10:58 AM
Missionaries and Head Coverings in Muslim Countries Newman Missions Area 50 03-06-2007 12:00 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome
- by Esaias
- by Esaias
- by Costeon

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.