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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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Old 08-24-2007, 08:21 AM
Barb Barb is offline
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Order and discord...

God is not the author of confusion…it is Scripture (I Corinthians 14:33) and it is true. Everything that He is speaks and breathes order.

When the Almighty created the heavens and the earth He had a plan. He didn’t just throw the universe together, but designed it with great precision. There was order.

For example, because of divine order, God didn’t make man while the earth was covered in water and darkness. That just makes sense, doesn’t it? He had a plan and it was all done in its proper sequence.

Creation followed a natural progression, and came about by the spoken Word. The earth was formed at His Word. He separated the light from the darkness at His Word. He made the dry land, and separated the clouds from the oceans and seas at His Word.

God created everything that was made by speaking it into existence--almost everything. Man is the only creation that was “formed of the dust of the ground, and (God) breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul” (Genesis 2:7). Everything had life by the spoken Word of God, except man. He “became a living soul”.

God made man and created a perfect place for him…he was free to walk, run, swim, eat, and sleep in this new home. He did not have to toil for his food, and everything was there for his pleasure. In other words, though he was placed in the Garden to “dress it and to keep it” (Genesis 2:15), working as a gardener or caretaker was secondary to guarding this place of paradise.

God gave man dominion over everything on earth, and put him in charge (Genesis 1:28,29). It was a perfect situation, in every way, and in the midst of this perfection, with all of its splendor, there was order. “...the LORD God commanded the man, saying, of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest therof thou shalt surely die” (Genesis 2:16,17).

God’s Divine order was never meant to limit man, but was there for his protection. There is no way of knowing just how long Adam and Eve lived under this umbrella of protection. What we do know is that Eve was not far from the tree, listening to a voice that sounded reasonable, and was deceived.

Acknowledging man’s failure brings us to a question…since disobedience is a dominating force in the world, how are we delivered? The answer: when we come to the knowledge of salvation and are Born Again, we are a new creation (II Corinthians 5:17). Man is, at last, begotten by the Word (I Corinthians 4:15).

Many will accept what I have just written, but will reject order when it comes to operations of the Spirit or operating in their particular gift. They will argue that “WE are Sanctified!!” As if sanctification excludes us from order.

Order is the condition in which every part, unit is in its right place; organization, uniformity, harmony. That means that everything and everyone working together in service and ministry as one unit.

Not an easy task for those who desire to do their own thing and follow their own agenda. They wrongfully set the pattern for how the church or particular offices in the church should be operated instead of what thus saith the Lord.

Consequently, there is confusion and discord in the camp. You all know what discord is…have you ever heard someone playing the piano and they hit the wrong chord?! It is a strange and harsh sound, and if you know anything about music and have any kind of an ear, it just kind of sets your spine on edge.

The dictionary reads that discord is disagreement; strife; a lack of harmony between notes sounding together; an unpleasing or unfinished chord needing to be completed by another.

So the premise here is that it takes ALL to make the WHOLE. When we are working and operating separate from the rest, it is discord. When we are about our own ministry and self promotion, we are not complete and the sound is as of an unfinished chord.

continued…
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:24 AM
Barb Barb is offline
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Continued…


In establishing the operation of spiritual matters and the upkeep of the camp, God directed to Moses to seek out the tribe or family of Levi and use them in this capacity. In this, we usually think that it just involved the priesthood and musicians/singers…not so.

Moses called for those who opened and closed gates to come from the Levites and they were referred to as porters…we call them ushers today.

Those who prepared unleavened cakes and shewbread were Levites…we call those who serve in this capacity (potlucks and church dinners) the kitchen crew.

The treasurers and officers/judges kept the business of the camp in order …we call them board members.

They were all considered ministry and they worked together as ONE.

I can almost hear y’all saying, “Board members in ministry?!”

I know, but it’s in the Word…they formed one body and worked in a unity that many of us cannot understand.

In this hardened day in which we live it is almost impossible it seems to find this kind of unity happening, at least not of this magnitude. We have our likes and dislikes and think that our opinion is the ONLY opinion, not to mention that many are not shy about voicing it.

I am convinced, however, that it is not only possible, but in the will of God to have this divine order in our midst. Call me delusional, but what would happen if everyone walked and worked in harmony and operated in their right place?! What would the result be of God’s people not seeking their own agenda or trying to outdo the church across town…what would happen if we stood as one voice and supported each other, not thinking higher of ourselves than we ought?!

Well, in II Chronicles 5, the result of one voice and one sound was the glory of the Lord showed up. An interesting note here is that before they sang or played a note…before the priests marched in or the choir sang…before the 120 trumpets blew (and you think it is loud in your service?!)…before they did a thing, Solomon reached back for the Ark.

In all that we do, we cannot afford to try to operate in spiritual matters without the presence of the Lord being at the forefront. We must not neglect to seek His face…we must know His mind and will before we even begin.

There is no other way.

continued...
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:25 AM
Barb Barb is offline
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continued...


I Chronicles 13-15 describes the result of not seeking the mind of God…

David, the King, psalmist and praiser was doing a noble thing. He desired to bring the Ark…that which represented and demonstrated the power of God, back into Jerusalem. He sent word to Abinadab, in whose home the Ark had been resting for lo those many years, to get things ready as he was requesting it’s return.

Abinidab’s three sons made the necessary preparations and built a new cart to carry the presence of the Lord, and once again, this seemed like a noble act. The cart had never been defiled with carrying small farm animals or hay or wood. No man had ever ridden on this cart…it was a new thing and it looked nice, but was it in order?!

David called for everyone to witness this event and all were present…the congregation, the priests and the music. They were all in their places, and it looked and sounded good, but was it in order?!

They began the journey with Abinidab’s sons certainly feeling the excitement of the moment, and maybe even a bit of pride in that they had protected the Ark while it was in their home, and were now seeing it safely to it’s destination in a new cart that they had made with their own hands.

Two of Abinidab’s sons drove the oxen and all was well…there was singing and praising and much joy. However, when they got to a certain place in the road, the oxen stumbled. Uzzah lifted his hands to steady the Ark, and it seems like a natural response…when something is falling, we put up our hands to stop it, but was it in order?!

Evidently not, and the result was tragic…Uzzah was struck dead on the spot.

The order or command from the Lord was given to Moses and can be found in Leviticus 25:12-15...the Ark was to be carried upon the shoulders of the Levites.

Seems like a simple enough instruction, but the question girl here wonders…did Uzzah not know the Law, not understand it, or did he simply not care? Had it been so long since someone had spoken into his spirit about matters of such importance that he had forgotten, did they tell him at all, or was he hell-bent on doing it his way?!

What is clear is that those in charge of the transport/operation of the presence of God overlooked order and their neglect brought death.

Fear and anger caused David to stop the process and wait until they could find out what they had done wrong. He said, “We sought not the Lord after the due ORDER.” In other words, “We’ve been doing it wrong…let’s find the right way to do this!”

How many well meaning folks today think that order is an old song or a new song or Southern gospel or ‘Black’, upbeat and contemporary or slow and traditional?! How many think that order is a low-key, yet power-packed style of preaching, while others think that if it’s not hacking and loud, it’s not preaching?!

Is any of this order?!

At times it can all be because order is not dependent solely on performance. Order is based on oneness of mind and heart…continually seeking the mind of the Master and flowing in the Spirit. Operating in flow and order may mean that the choir has practiced Shake the Foundation, but the Spirit is saying Amazing Grace, SO we change our planned selection.

The order for each service will be different because the need of every service will be different. When we realize this, and that we are about ministry and not motivated by performance and ability and what we have planned, we will see the hand of God move in ways we have only dreamed about.
I want this…if it’s my church or your church, I want this!!

Today I pray for order…I pray for a unified Body of believers, determined to work together for a common goal, that of souls.

I pray that we receive His call for unity and workability for Kingdom sake, in Jesus Name, Amen.
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Old 08-24-2007, 09:22 AM
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Felicity Felicity is offline
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Wow! Somebody sure got inspired this morning! This is very good Barb!

Guess the first thing that popped into my mind as I read through this is the fact that........

Unity is a choice.

We decide whether or not we will work together with others in harmony and with a common purpose, goal and aim in mind that's bigger than any one or two of us.

Doesn't mean we all think exactly alike about everything or even that our emphases are all exactly alike. But we choose to not contend for our individual views so that the greater cause can be achieved.

When you've got that kind of unity going on there's nothing else quite like it and God blesses it when you're functioning together within His will and purpose.

Just a couple quick thots.........
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Old 08-24-2007, 09:54 AM
Barb Barb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
Wow! Somebody sure got inspired this morning! This is very good Barb!

Guess the first thing that popped into my mind as I read through this is the fact that........

Unity is a choice.

We decide whether or not we will work together with others in harmony and with a common purpose, goal and aim in mind that's bigger than any one or two of us.

Doesn't mean we all think exactly alike about everything or even that our emphases are all exactly alike. But we choose to not contend for our individual views so that the greater cause can be achieved.

When you've got that kind of unity going on there's nothing else quite like it and God blesses it when you're functioning together within His will and purpose.

Just a couple quick thots.........
Thank you, Felicity, and good thoughts they are...

I agree that unity is indeed a choice. The old hymn just dropped in my spirit...

"Take up thy cross and follow me."
I hear the blessed savior call
How can I make a lesser sacrifice
When Jesus gave His all


It seems for some, once the choice is made to take up their cross, they feel that is the only choice and sacrifice necessary thereafter...not so.

Working together as one is a choice that will produce the cloud...the glory.

Choosing to work together as one unit or body is often a tremendous sacrifice, but so is discord. If I choose discord, I sacrifice peace and harmony. I sacrifice a clear and certain sound of order that brings the miraculous...salvation and healing and deliverance.

They were ALL with one mind, in one place, in one accord...there is something powerful about the word ALL...not just the front-line praisers...not just the pastor and his family...not just the music department, but ALL!!

You mentioned not contending for individual views...it was this mindset that produced a joining of minds and hearts, and it came about by choice.

God's divine order of working as one, as this layperson sees it, is our strength and life and is my heartbeat today.
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Old 08-24-2007, 10:15 AM
Sarah Sarah is offline
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Sis Barb..........You've done it again! Thanks so much for this good teaching. I so admire you and others who can write/communicate thoughts like this. It truly spoke to my heart, as I've been thinking along the same lines for a while.

We're all part of the same body....fitly joined together. Lord help me not to get out of joint!

If the church is ever going to have revival, we're going to have to put into action what you wrote about.
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Old 08-24-2007, 12:25 PM
Barb Barb is offline
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Originally Posted by Sarah View Post
Sis Barb..........You've done it again! Thanks so much for this good teaching. I so admire you and others who can write/communicate thoughts like this. It truly spoke to my heart, as I've been thinking along the same lines for a while.

We're all part of the same body....fitly joined together. Lord help me not to get out of joint!

If the church is ever going to have revival, we're going to have to put into action what you wrote about.
I hesitated in posting so much, but remembered that others have done it, so I gave it a try.

Sis. sarah, we are all a part of the family of God...I love what you wrote, "Lord help me to not get out of joint!!"

How easy it is to get out of joint over stuff that is small or none of our business...heaven help us to get in order.
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Old 08-24-2007, 01:29 PM
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tamor tamor is offline
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Originally Posted by Barb View Post
How easy it is to get out of joint over stuff that is small or none of our business...heaven help us to get in order.
Amen!!
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Old 08-24-2007, 07:42 PM
Barb Barb is offline
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Amen!!
Amen indeed...life is full of the small stuff...stuff that in the grand scheme of life and eternity is not worth our attention and time.

Small stuff is a weight and it is easy to get caught up in it...

Oh how I yearn to be in order!!
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:21 PM
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pelathais pelathais is offline
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Amen indeed...life is full of the small stuff...stuff that in the grand scheme of life and eternity is not worth our attention and time.

Small stuff is a weight and it is easy to get caught up in it...

Oh how I yearn to be in order!!
Great thoughts there, Sister Barb.

Glad you made it through that storm today as well! I know that Apple pie goes a long way in helping weather any kind of storm.
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