Holy Ghost

[TakingDominion]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I saw it, but keep it in context of someone who has lost faith and is under a weight of near agnostic unbelief. So what do we do? Throw down on him, or restore such a one in a spirit of meekness? Launch a volley at him or pray for him?

You constantly looking for ammo from his posts to shoot him down with his own words is never going to bring him around to the very thing you want, which is his repentance and renewal.

I hear what you're saying and agree somewhat with you. However, I also know that acting like a backslider is "ok" in their backslidden state, isn't the answer either. Maybe that's not what your intent was, but that's how your posts come off to me. Jfrog was challenging whether the holy ghost is real while also acknowledging he no longer attends church or prays. When I asked him about it, he called me a sinner and told me to repent of my "sin". I simply told him he needed to find a good church and get his relationship with God back.

You telling him he still may have the holy ghost is silly to me. He doesn't pray, he doesn't attend church by his own admission. He called tongues "jibber jabber". As I said in the beginning of this thread, he needs to find a good church.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by TakingDominion

I hear what you're saying and agree somewhat with you. However, I also know that acting like a backslider is "ok" in their backslidden state, isn't the answer either. Maybe that's not what your intent was, but that's how your posts come off to me. Jfrog was challenging whether the holy ghost is real while also acknowledging he no longer attends church or prays. When I asked him about it, he called me a sinner and told me to repent of my "sin". I simply told him he needed to find a good church and get his relationship with God back.

You telling him he still may have the holy ghost is silly to me. He doesn't pray, he doesn't attend church by his own admission. He called tongues "jibber jabber". As I said in the beginning of this thread, he needs to find a good church.

Stop lying about what I said. I call it a lie now because I’ve called you on it enough to know it wasn’t a mistake. I said If it’s jibber jabber now then it was jibber jabber then. You really should repent. Lying is still a sin.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Stop lying about what I said. I call it a lie now because I’ve called you on it enough to know it wasn’t a mistake. I said If it’s jibber jabber now then it was jibber jabber then. You really should repent. Lying is still a sin.

So is it jibber jabber to you?....


If you do it without repenting and prayer than it’s jibber jabber.

[TakingDominion]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Stop lying about what I said. I call it a lie now because I’ve called you on it enough to know it wasn’t a mistake. I said If it’s jibber jabber now then it was jibber jabber then. You really should repent. Lying is still a sin.

Go back through this thread and count the times you've called me on it.. specifically me

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by TakingDominion

Go back through this thread and count the times you've called me on it.. specifically me

Doesn’t matter. You had a chance to apologize and failed to turn from the accusation and instead doubled down on it. Whether I was right about it being a lie before it is one now. You need to repent.

[Esaias]

Does Hebrews 6:4-8 never apply?

If a person has concluded that the Holy Ghost is "just jibber jabber", that there is nothing spiritual to it, that it's just a psychological trick, and further has cast away their CONFIDENCE in Christ, has failed to hold fast the profession of faith... how is that not making shipwreck of one's faith? How is that not "falling away"? How is that not clear evidence of having been rejected and pruned from the Vine?

And lastly, how many people on a course of deep-rooted spiritual error and backsliding have been recovered via some internet discussion forum? It's almost impossible to use social media to get people to repent of doing stupid stuff with their lawnmowers, much less introduce a profound, life-changing revelation into someone's soul.

If a person doest believe with all their heart that Jesus Christ really IS the Son of God, as prophesied, then all this arguing over tongues is a complete distraction from the real issue.

And if a believer is just going through a trying time and season of doubt, the solution is not and never has been intellectual exercises and pouring over the past looking for something to give closure or satisfaction. The solution always was and ever will be to secure a PRESENT salvation. I've always preached that it don't matter a hill of beans that you "got the Holy Ghost back in 19xx", what matters is are you NOW, TODAY, filled with God and walking in His Truth?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by TakingDominion

I hear what you're saying and agree somewhat with you. However, I also know that acting like a backslider is "ok" in their backslidden state, isn't the answer either. Maybe that's not what your intent was, but that's how your posts come off to me. Jfrog was challenging whether the holy ghost is real while also acknowledging he no longer attends church or prays. When I asked him about it, he called me a sinner and told me to repent of my "sin". I simply told him he needed to find a good church and get his relationship with God back.

You telling him he still may have the holy ghost is silly to me. He doesn't pray, he doesn't attend church by his own admission. He called tongues "jibber jabber". As I said in the beginning of this thread, he needs to find a good church.

I never indicated whether I think he is or is not okay in his state. But the likely truth is, he already knows his state, and ultimately it's up to him to do something about it, if he wants to.

Consider the times in which Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. A pretty much-backslidden nation, a corrupt priesthood, a foreign occupier domineering the land, true worship of God nearly non-existent, and those are the ones Jesus came to save. All of them could have and should have known better.

He didn't say He came for heathen who didn't know the true God of Israel. That salvation came later in Acts. He came to His own, to the very people of God since Moses and the Exodus.

So, if that is the era in which God sent His Son, and if the Son of God was sent to reclaim sheep who strayed into backslidden idolatry and dissolution, and He said He came to save and not condemn, then clearly the restoration of the backslider is of paramount importance to God.

The Lord's only harsh issue was with religious hypocrites, the rest were given tender, loving mercy.

And in jfrog's case, at least in this thread, the objection he has was a mere intellectual issue regarding his experience speaking with other tongues. Basically, a possible misunderstanding, that I attempted to resolve with as likely a possibility as anything else offered, because unless jfrog utterly repudiates Christ as a fraud, apostatizing from God, and has been given up to a reprobate mind, 2 Corinthians 13:5 comes into play, no matter how far we think he has fallen. Because only God knows just how far away jfrog is from becoming a vessel meet for the Master's use, or a vessel of destruction for the glory of God.

And since we are not Him, it's better to err on the side of caution and not go condemning someone who tried to give an otherwise honest assessment of where they are at. Just do what you can to rescue him without heaping judgment upon him. Love believes and hopes all things. It is always worth trying to reach out and help someone out of the ditch of their spiritual condition if they've fallen into one.

Take heed to yourself, right? Because just when you think you stand, you might find yourself fallen. We reap what we sow, always. With whatever judgment we mete out, we get back double.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I never indicated whether I think he is or is not okay in his state. But the likely truth is, he already knows his state, and ultimately it's up to him to do something about it, if he wants to.

Consider the times in which Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. A pretty much-backslidden nation, a corrupt priesthood, a foreign occupier domineering the land, true worship of God nearly non-existent, and those are the ones Jesus came to save. All of them could have and should have known better.

He didn't say He came for heathen who didn't know the true God of Israel. That salvation came later in Acts. He came to His own, to the very people of God since Moses and the Exodus.

So, if that is the era in which God sent His Son, and if the Son of God was sent to reclaim sheep who strayed into backslidden idolatry and dissolution, and He said He came to save and not condemn, then clearly the restoration of the backslider is of paramount importance to God.

The Lord's only harsh issue was with religious hypocrites, the rest were given tender, loving mercy.

And in jfrog's case, at least in this thread, the objection he has was a mere intellectual issue regarding his experience speaking with other tongues. Basically, a possible misunderstanding, that I attempted to resolve with as likely a possibility as anything else offered, because unless jfrog utterly repudiates Christ as a fraud, apostatizing from God, and has been given up to a reprobate mind, 2 Corinthians 13:5 comes into play, no matter how far we think he has fallen. Because only God knows just how far away jfrog is from becoming a vessel meet for the Master's use, or a vessel of destruction for the glory of God.

And since we are not Him, it's better to err on the side of caution and not go condemning someone who tried to give an otherwise honest assessment of where they are at. Just do what you can to rescue him without heaping judgment upon him. Love believes and hopes all things. It is always worth trying to reach out and help someone out of the ditch of their spiritual condition if they've fallen into one.

Take heed to yourself, right? Because just when you think you stand, you might find yourself fallen. We reap what we sow, always. With whatever judgment we mete out, we get back double.

We are erring in the side of caution and doing the most loving thing a Christian can do by telling him he needs to repent.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

We are erring in the side of caution and doing the most loving thing a Christian can do by telling him he needs to repent.

I don't buy that. That's just passing the buck and not doing much of anything to restore such a one in the spirit of meekness. Restoration of someone overtaken in a fault is a process you enter into with the fallen brother or sister to actually do more than just say "repent".

Yes, repentance is part of the process, and will eventually become the main component of his restoration, but he's likely not in a place where he can, since he's become so agnostic to God even existing, let alone whether or not God can grant him repentance and renew him in the Holy Spirit.

It's akin to James telling us faith without works is dead. You cannot simply tell someone be warm, be filled, but then not provide food and clothing and expect that person to actually be filled and become warm. ACTION ON YOUR PART IS REQUIRED.

And the action that is required is not merely telling him to repent. That's nowhere even remotely close to what it will take to see him actually repent, that is to say, your intended goal.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I don't buy that. That's just passing the buck and not doing much of anything to restore such a one in the spirit of meekness. Restoration of someone overtaken in a fault is a process you enter into with the fallen brother or sister to actually do more than just say "repent".

Yes, repentance is part of the process, and will eventually become the main component of his restoration, but he's likely not in a place where he can, since he's become so agnostic to God even existing, let alone whether or not God can grant him repentance and renew him in the Holy Spirit.

It's akin to James telling us faith without works is dead. You cannot simply tell someone be warm, be filled, but then not provide food and clothing and expect that person to actually be filled and become warm. ACTION ON YOUR PART IS REQUIRED.

And the action that is required is not merely telling him to repent. That's nowhere even remotely close to what it will take to see him actually repent, that is to say, your intended goal.

Well if I knew him and lived close to him I could go pray for him as he repents but since I don’t the best I can do is tell him to repent and find a good apostolic church. But to James... I don’t have to give him food if it’s already in his fridge so I can just say if you are hungry open your fridge and get some food. You see he has the answer.... he just needs to repent.