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Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun! |
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10-18-2020, 07:49 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Unites States
Posts: 2,438
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Re: Have you ever lost confidence in leadership?
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Originally Posted by 1 God
Tithemeister is right about the biggest false doctrine in the UPC.... tithing. It is so obvious, that all other doctrines come under scrutiny from it. The tithe doctrine was supposed to go away in the information age, but these men have doubled down on it. No wonder God had to step in and stop churches altogether. Time for a divine reboot.
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When did this happen?
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Jesus, Teach us How to war in the Spirit realm, rather than war in the carnal, physical realm. Teach us to be spiritually minded, rather than to be mindful of the carnal.
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10-18-2020, 07:58 AM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 39,162
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Re: Have you ever lost confidence in leadership?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968
When did this happen?
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He is talking about COVID.
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“Burn the Boats!!!” — Hernan Cortes
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10-18-2020, 08:08 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 793
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Re: Have you ever lost confidence in leadership?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968
When did this happen?
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Yes, EB is right...covid. God is using it.
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10-18-2020, 08:17 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,018
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Re: Have you ever lost confidence in leadership?
A man and a woman have a covenant under marriage where the man is the head. Each believer is in a covenant with Christ where Christ is the head.
There is no Biblical covenant between the saints and the elders in the assembly. The elders are not the head of the believers. They are like parents to adult children to them. They watch for them, and teach them, and prevent false doctrine inside the church, and judge matters. That's what "ruling" is.
It is really not that hard to understand.
Regarding Hebrews, the word for "obey" there is to persuade (g3982), which in that context means to "obey/listen/pay attention to the persuasion of those that rule over you". That greek word is not the same greek word that it is usually used for the parents little children relationship (which is G5219) or master slave relationship, where you obey a commander in chief, just because. In other words, it is talking about obeying a persuasive advice, which is also expected to have good argumentation, not just because the elder says so as a commander-in-chief.
One side of the debate wants to deprive elders of their proper place, the other side of the debate wants to give the elders the place of a prophet-king.
This debate is the reaction to the systematic extreme abuse we have seen over the years.
Last edited by coksiw; 10-18-2020 at 08:34 AM.
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10-18-2020, 08:32 AM
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Covenant Apostolic
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sebastian, FL
Posts: 8,765
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Re: Have you ever lost confidence in leadership?
Coksiw: "One side of the debate wants to deprive elders of their proper place, the other side of the debate wants to give the elders the place of a king."
No one here is looking to gives elders a kingship
Last edited by Amanah; 10-18-2020 at 08:41 AM.
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10-18-2020, 08:43 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,778
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Re: Have you ever lost confidence in leadership?
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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968
Why did Paul say he wanted the church to imitate him?
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See what you did? You don’t see what you did, do you? You completely left out the most important of the verse!
Paul didn’t say imitate me. He said (in your version) imitate me as I imitate Christ. You left out the “imitate Christ” part!
Freudian slip?
The point that Paul was making is that insomuch as he was following Christ, they should do likewise.
Also. It seems that you are putting yourself on a plane with Paul, which may not be justified.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968
Can a Pastor say that today?
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Certainly a pastor could say that today as long as he doesn’t leave out the Christ part. It’s pretty important. Indeed anyone could say it and it would be valid.
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10-18-2020, 09:18 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 793
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Re: Have you ever lost confidence in leadership?
Quote:
Originally Posted by coksiw
A man and a woman have a covenant under marriage where the man is the head. Each believer is in a covenant with Christ where Christ is the head.
There is no Biblical covenant between the saints and the elders in the assembly. The elders are not the head of the believers. They are like parents to adult children to them. They watch for them, and teach them, and prevent false doctrine inside the church, and judge matters. That's what "ruling" is.
It is really not that hard to understand.
Regarding Hebrews, the word for "obey" there is to persuade (g3982), which in that context means to "obey/listen/pay attention to the persuasion of those that rule over you". That greek word is not the same greek word that it is usually used for the parents little children relationship (which is G5219) or master slave relationship, where you obey a commander in chief, just because. In other words, it is talking about obeying a persuasive advice, which is also expected to have good argumentation, not just because the elder says so as a commander-in-chief.
One side of the debate wants to deprive elders of their proper place, the other side of the debate wants to give the elders the place of a prophet-king.
This debate is the reaction to the systematic extreme abuse we have seen over the years.
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Yes, exactly, the elder is in a parenting role. That is all. We only steer our kids but must release them as they mature.
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10-18-2020, 09:43 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,778
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Re: Have you ever lost confidence in leadership?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah
So you think Hebrews doesn't apply to the church. Maybe it shouldn't be in the new testament at all in your opinion.
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Now you’re doing what EB does. Accusing me of saying something that I haven’t said and believing something I don’t believe. You are telling lies as well.
I believe Hebrews is a great letter for us to study. I also believe that it should be taken in context.
To whom was Hebrews written? Because it matters. We can study about sacrificing goats in the Bible, it doesn’t mean we should be doing so, nor does it mean that we don’t want to include Leviticus as part of the Bible.
So, to attempt to straighten out your lies, I do think Hebrews should be included in the Bible. In my opinion, it should be included in the New Testament. I also believe in rightly dividing the Word.
If you would like to know what I believe, just ask, preferably put a question mark at the end of your question. However, in the spirit of Paul, I would recommend that you ask your husband. I think you have one.
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10-18-2020, 09:44 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Unites States
Posts: 2,438
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Re: Have you ever lost confidence in leadership?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1 God
Yes, EB is right...covid. God is using it.
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Well thats a first.
God is using Covid-19 because preachers are demanding tithe.
Only on AFF.....
__________________
Jesus, Teach us How to war in the Spirit realm, rather than war in the carnal, physical realm. Teach us to be spiritually minded, rather than to be mindful of the carnal.
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10-18-2020, 10:13 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,778
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Re: Have you ever lost confidence in leadership?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
Interesting, you get pretty upset. Usually you walk away, and curl up in a ball. But the hypocrite tag hurts religious posers like yourself. Tithing isn’t New Testament is the only thing you have to offer the world. You made your name here the banner of your gospel. You believe the rest of dwarfs believe that preachers are gods, and kings? Your time in church didn’t make you better, but a bummer? ? ? Coward.
No, you are quite sure. So sure to the point of livid. That you continue to go on about forum punctuation! You attend a church? Does it have a pastor? You are here under an alias. No one knows you. You come here and beat your tin drum over and over about tithing. But when asked if you do it yourself in a church you want to teach about punctuation? How about spelling? Yes indeed, you are a hypocrite. Full polished 24kt gold. Now we have your second candy stick, no such thing as a pastor. So do YOU attend a church with one? Since you have never been one yourself. Since you have never led a group to do anything more then riot.
You are conveniently the brethren when it suits you? How interesting? Is that what you were taught by your god king?
Is that what you were doing? What scripture calls leadership “god kings?”
The only one around here not liking it is you.
You don’t even know what that means.
Really? You have it as your nick. Pal, your consumed by it. The whole subject owns you. It’s your master, not the other way around. But you are a kid, and haven't the life experience to figure it out. Tithemister? More like the whole subject is your master. Now leadership? They that have the rule over you is pretty plain. So now change your nick to Pastormister.
But you refuse to be clear? Ok, that always works for politicians. No my issues are with religious self righteous types. Who want to set the captives free but all the while making them worse. But as you get older you will either figure it out, or leave it all together. Sadly there will be a line of dead behind you.
Your life problem is that you don’t get it. Sadly I believe people like you never will. It’s the human equation in all of this. Guys like you get messed up long before they ever get in a discussion on a forum. But, hey, it can’t be religion without the self righteous like you.
You mean you weren’t serious? Ok, everything you said up to this point is disregarded.
You don’t get it. Thousands look at scriptures, there are scholars in every denomination, and ideology. Get older, or should I say grow up. You self righteous toad.
But alas, this is how you end it. Frustrated religious person. Wanting to set the captives free to be just like thee.
Well, now we know where your tithe revelation came from.
Your main issue is with ministry?
I believe I mentioned that when I first saw you on this forum.
What a joke.
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EB,
Read this post to your wife and ask her if this is what she means by Christian cursing. You have accused MTD of Christian cursing. Your Own behavior is an example of what you project onto MTD.
Otherwise, I noticed you had a hiatus from AFF. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. It might be time for another break.
I have to admit that I was concerned for you in your absence. I even said a prayer for you. But I’m good now. Feel free to take another break.
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