Tithing…Is it a command?

[ApostolicTexas]

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

While I do agree with you that the first question is "how will we pay the rent" by most preachers, your answer carries with it the poverty mentality that permeates the church.

If Pastor's would live by the same faith they want their congregants to live by they would find that God has no problem funding His work in an overflowing way. We are not to put pressure on man, but on God.

Instead of learning how to walk in the faith that actually receives, so many are trying to figure out how they can downsize so that it's easier.

Ministry is not easy, nor is it cheap.

Jesus never commanded to go and build churches..that is..expensive beautiful buildings with high overhead.We as believers are the real church.Meeting at Starbucks can also be consider having church.

Nothing wrong with downsizing..just split up and expand..a city with 3-5 house churches could easily evangelize and reach more.

[ApostolicTexas]

Originally Posted by Jason

How come tithing advocates never bring up churches of Christ, methodist, or jehovah's witnesses? None of these groups tithe, but they survive. not to mention apostolic churches that don't teach tithing. There is an apostolic church in my area that doesn't teach tithing and has virtually no fellowship with other apostolic churches, and not because they don't want the fellowship. God will take care of his church, I would make the point that those who are in favor of tithing have a security blanket of knowing that 10% is coming, with freewill offerings you really have to trust God to provide.
Like I said the churches (using the term loosly here) that don't teach tithing aren't going broke.

Amen..I know of a couple of Apostolic churches who do not teach,preach or even mention the word Tithe and they are blessed.They fellowship with apostolic churches too..A Lot of it has to do with tradition..it is a cycle that repeats over and over and here comes someone who disagrees with them and they do not like it.It is sad we all cannot get along and realize God loves his people..

[Scott Hutchinson]

The principle of giving is not under question but the question of is the tenth the legal bibding amount for NT. giving is under question.
However anybody with any common sense knows that ministries need the support of God's people,and churches have bills to pay.
The bottom line is that if one sows sparingly they will reap sparingly,and if one sows bountifully they will reap the same.
One should not muzzle the ox that threadeth the corn and those that minister of the gospel shall live of the gospel.
A tenth certainly is a reasonable amount to give.

[ApostolicTexas]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

The principle of giving is not under question but the question of is the tenth the legal bibding amount for NT. giving is under question.
However anybody with any common sense knows that ministries need the support of God's people,and churches have bills to pay.
The bottom line is that if one sows sparingly they will reap sparingly,and if one sows bountifully they will reap the same.
One should not muzzle the ox that threadeth the corn and those that minister of the gospel shall live of the gospel.
A tenth certainly is a reasonable amount to give.

tell that to the man working at Mcdonalds trying to make ends meet and has a family to support..to him a tenth might be a chunk..What does He do..pay that light Bill or make sure God gets the 10%? I could tell him it is easier to find scripture to pay that light bill.I agree churches have expenses and those expenses could be met with people giving.we are told to give from the heart and not from a percentage.

This doctrine has ruined many people and today it is keeping many people from returning to the Lord as they simply cannot afford to give or some would say they do not have enough faith to trust God.

[ApostolicTexas]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

The principle of giving is not under question but the question of is the tenth the legal bibding amount for NT. giving is under question.
However anybody with any common sense knows that ministries need the support of God's people,and churches have bills to pay.
The bottom line is that if one sows sparingly they will reap sparingly,and if one sows bountifully they will reap the same.
One should not muzzle the ox that threadeth the corn and those that minister of the gospel shall live of the gospel.
A tenth certainly is a reasonable amount to give.

How do Preterist see the need for tithing when the storehouse was a part of the temple and it was destroyed? this should be saying something

[Sam]

Originally Posted by ApostolicTexas

tell that to the man working at Mcdonalds trying to make ends meet and has a family to support..to him a tenth might be a chunk..What does He do..pay that light Bill or make sure God gets the 10%? I could tell him it is easier to find scripture to pay that light bill.I agree churches have expenses and those expenses could be met with people giving.we are told to give from the heart and not from a percentage.

This doctrine has ruined many people and today it is keeping many people from returning to the Lord as they simply cannot afford to give or some would say they do not have enough faith to trust God.

I have an opinion on tithing that some may not agree with.

In Mark chapter 7 we find where some of the legalists condemned Jesus and His disciples because they were not living up to the legalist's traditional standards.

9 He (Jesus) said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’[ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

Jesus spoke of those who said they could not help their parents because what they had was dedicated to the Lord or was the Lord's money so it could not be used for something carnal like helping someone. Paul said that if a person did not provide for his own, especially those of his own household, that person had denied the faith and was worse than an infidel. In my opinion, anyone who says, "the tithe is the Lord's money and it would be wrong to take the Lord's money to feed my children, (or to clothe my children, or to provide a roof over their heads) would be guilty of the same wrong that Jesus addressed in Mark 7.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

While I do agree with you that the first question is "how will we pay the rent" by most preachers, your answer carries with it the poverty mentality that permeates the church.

If Pastor's would live by the same faith they want their congregants to live by they would find that God has no problem funding His work in an overflowing way. We are not to put pressure on man, but on God.

I can see what you're saying.

A church I used to attend was rather large. It seated nearly 1200 total in the Sanctuary. We had a school on the property (K-12), we had two rental properties and a parsonage, two full sized school buses, and 4 16 passenger vans. Bro...the amount of resources needed for the operation was rather much to say the least. Today the pastor gives congregation members a "statement" showing how much they are giving.

I think a church can become too large. When this happens preachers start sweating. So they make tithing and a 5% offering a requirement in the church etc.

So I've seen what you're talking about when you say pastors should put their faith in God. However, I also question the wisdom of amassing so many earthly things.

Instead of learning how to walk in the faith that actually receives, so many are trying to figure out how they can downsize so that it's easier.

Ministry is not easy, nor is it cheap.

I don't think house churching is necessarily about downsizing to make it easier. I think the church is evolving and many are trying to get back to Christianity as it was practiced in the Bible.

We've seen membership in the traditional churches dropping steadily for decades. We've seen the advent of the "Mega-Church" with all it's programs, ministries, and activities. The most expansive advent of the Mega Church began in the 80's and 90's. This was a very significant phenomena in the landscape of the church. Mega Churches began to draw members from smaller neighborhood churches and these smaller churches began to struggle and fail. This was bad for the inner city areas and neighborhoods because now churches were increasingly larger facilities outside of the city located in the suburban areas instead of being present among the people in their neighborhoods. The "drive to church" nearly doubled in distance for millions of Christians. Poorer Christians who don't own vehicles have increasingly become viewed as burdens. But still many Christians believed that the Mega Church was "exciting". But as time has passed people have realized that not all that glitters is gold. Mega Churches are so large the believer is easily "lost in the crowd". Social networks in the church aren't as solid or intimate as they were prior to the 80's. The programs, that are more like entertainment take a tremendous amount of resources. The cost of property and upkeep is unbelievable. In America alone churches spend over 200 BILLION dollars on nothing but...a building. Meanwhile poverty continues to be a blight on inner city America. The elderly are struggling. Benevolence is not addressing the need in any significant fashion. Christian charities are even struggling more than ever before. Recently there has been a growing awareness among Christians that real Christian fellowship and ministry has nothing to do with a building, what you wear, or who's in charge. More and more Christians are finding that the Mega Church has damaged Christianity more than helped it. So these Christians are returning to the biblical pattern.

A house church can be launched ANYWHERE one has a roof. This allows them to be launched in wealthy neighborhoods as well as poor neighborhoods. This allows the ministry to actually live and minister in the neighborhoods and areas they are called to reach. A house churches can be started in dense urban areas where attaining a church building is impossible. A house church can be led by a hand full of elders reducing competition for an office in the church. There is virtually no overhead for a house church therefore resources can be used to support the ministry and benevolence toward one another and/or local charities. House churches can multiply by targeting new areas of a city and then voluntarily splitting to launch the second work without the "loss of sustaining members" or putting the church body into financial hardship.

I'm a supporter of house churching. But I attend a traditional church that isn't. I personally feel that traditional churches could learn many things from house churches. This is why at the very least I advocate for home fellowship groups.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Sam

I have an opinion on tithing that some may not agree with.

In Mark chapter 7 we find where some of the legalists condemned Jesus and His disciples because they were not living up to the legalist's traditional standards.

9 He (Jesus) said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’[ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

Jesus spoke of those who said they could not help their parents because what they had was dedicated to the Lord or was the Lord's money so it could not be used for something carnal like helping someone. Paul said that if a person did not provide for his own, especially those of his own household, that person had denied the faith and was worse than an infidel. In my opinion, anyone who says, "the tithe is the Lord's money and it would be wrong to take the Lord's money to feed my children, (or to clothe my children, or to provide a roof over their heads) would be guilty of the same wrong that Jesus addressed in Mark 7.

Wow. And Amen.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Perhaps this article might help some here.
I think it makes some valid concerns.
http://shouldthechurchteachtithing.com

[Bro-Larry]

Christopher Hall, How long halt ye between two opinions? JFFT. Bro-Larry