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Old 07-15-2018, 01:55 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Head covering

Proposed: The head covering commanded by Paul in 1 Cor 11 is not for today.
Affirm: ?
Deny: Esaias

Proposed: The head covering commanded by Paul in 1 Cor 11 is for today.
Affirm: Esaias
Deny: ?

(Defined: "Head covering" = whatever Paul meant when he speaks of having the head covered, etc, whether long (or uncut) hair or an actual material head covering. "For today" = applies to Christians in the 21st century in that women must pray with their head covered in the way Paul intended as defined in the previous definition of "head covering". That is to say, if Paul commanded women are to pray with a material covering on their head, then women today are equally obligated to pray with a material covering on their head. If Paul commanded women are to pray with long/uncut hair, then women today are equally obligated to pray with long/uncut hair.)

Any other proposition regarding head covering may also be debated provided my opponent states the proposition to be debated and defines their terms.

Format: 3 rounds of affirmation/rebuttal, from both sides, with one closing statement each, no nonparticipant comments until both closing statements have been posted. Affirm1/rebuttal1, 2, and 3, then switch (standard debate format). If another standard format is desired please specify which one.

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  #2  
Old 07-15-2018, 11:03 PM
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Re: Head covering

I was just thinking a formal debate like this on this very topic was in order, and that you could be one of the participants. Do we have any takers?
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:37 PM
CalledOut238 CalledOut238 is offline
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Re: Head covering

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

To understand the scripture on head coverings one must consider the audience. Christian women and cultures were struggling with the equality given in the body of Christ. In Corinth you found those of the diaspora who still followed their Hebrew customs. Yet they were also exposed to the disgraceful conduct of the Corinthian women cropping their hair, after the manner of the priestesses of Aphrodite. The extreme opposite were the Maenad priestesses of Bacchus. Who performed pagan rites with their hair hanging loose weaved with ivy-wreaths around their heads, and often handled or wore snakes. Paul had to address how Christian women were to act in public assemblies of the Church at Corinth. He used the distinction between sexes; with women having longer hair and men having shorter hair. Teaching that though they we are all equal in Christ, we still have differing roles in the Body of Christ. He used these parallelisms between nature and culture to emphasize the operational order that congregations should reflect in their public meetings.

1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. 16 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

This verse uses aischrón; neuter noun, which means shame, base, dishonorable. Paul knew those of the diaspora would understand the parallelism between Hebrew terms for "veil" (radid), and "subjection" (radad). The cutting off the hair is used by Isaiah as an allegory of the entire destruction of a people by divine retribution. To both Hebrew and Greek cultures the veil is a token of modesty and of subordination to her husband. This ancient custom of modesty and subjection can be found in the Hebrew culture all the way back to Genesis.

Isa 7:20 In the same day shall the Lord shave with a razor that is hired, namely, by them beyond the river, by the king of Assyria, the head, and the hair of the feet: and it shall also consume the beard.

Gen 24:65 KJV - 65 For she had said unto the servant, What man is this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant had said, (It is my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself.)

Paul was fundamentally teaching that a woman's long hair is her natural covering and her glory. To have all her hair shaved off was a mark of a prostitute or adulteress in their society, which is a shame to her husband. Paul’s allegory is delivering a broader message to all believers on public meetings. Though we are equal in Christ there is still a natural order needed to be observed. The question is not whether a woman should observe having long hair or wearing a veil. Rather are women and men in subjection to our Heavenly Father’s Holy Spirit. Galatians teaches born again believers what we should pursue to attain true Holiness.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Selah
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Old 07-16-2018, 01:14 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Head covering

Please read the opening post. If you wish to take up the proposed debate, state your acceptance of the proper affirm or deny position, your acceptance of the format, and if you are in the affirmative begin with your first affirmation (if you are in the denial, you will have to wait for the other side to post their first affirmation before proceeding with a refutation, obviously).

If you need clarification of anything, then ask.

But simply posting drive-by argumentation is not the purpose of this thread.
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Old 07-16-2018, 01:34 PM
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Re: Head covering

For a formal debate there is a debate section. An admin will have to mod.
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Old 07-16-2018, 06:46 PM
CalledOut238 CalledOut238 is offline
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Re: Head covering

"Any other proposition regarding head covering may also be debated provided my opponent states the proposition to be debated and defines their terms."

In most debates the Negative can disagree by rejecting the definition. If you don’t do this it is assumed that you accept the definition. My position is that Paul was not commanding hair lengths or veils in these passages. My negative affirmation is clear. Paul used parallelisms to teach there is a natural order that should be observed in public meetings. Not to establish a custom to be followed by the church then or now.

I will let the professional debaters expound on the defined positions of your original format. My apologies.

Selah
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Old 07-16-2018, 07:50 PM
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Re: Head covering

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalledOut238 View Post
"Any other proposition regarding head covering may also be debated provided my opponent states the proposition to be debated and defines their terms."

In most debates the Negative can disagree by rejecting the definition. If you don’t do this it is assumed that you accept the definition. My position is that Paul was not commanding hair lengths or veils in these passages. My negative affirmation is clear. Paul used parallelisms to teach there is a natural order that should be observed in public meetings. Not to establish a custom to be followed by the church then or now.

I will let the professional debaters expound on the defined positions of your original format. My apologies.

Selah
Please state your position as a clear proposition if you prefer, define your terms, and then we can proceed.

Ex: No head covering of any kind is commanded in 1 Cor 11.

Ex: The Scriptures do not command women to pray or prophesy having their head covered.

Ex. The woman's head covering commanded in 1 Cor 11 is ________, rather than a material head covering ("veil") / long (or uncut) hair.

etc

This will make it explicitly clear exactly what is being discussed.
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Last edited by Esaias; 07-16-2018 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 08-20-2018, 03:55 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Head covering

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Old 08-20-2018, 05:06 PM
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Re: Head covering

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalledOut238 View Post
Yet they were also exposed to the disgraceful conduct of the Corinthian women cropping their hair, after the manner of the priestesses of Aphrodite.
The temple to Aphrodite was in ruins during the first century A.D..
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Old 08-21-2018, 05:32 PM
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Re: Head covering

Only African-American churches seem to practice head coverings today.

Well, that is the Apostolic ones. And that's if they represent any kind of holiness separation. I have met some, however, that do not wear head coverings, but have strong holiness standards.
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