what is your opinion..

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I apologize if you think I'm always attacking you. That has never been my intention.

Please consider this, not as an attack, but take it for whatever you feel it is worth:

2 Corinthians 5:16. Pray about its meaning, brother. Long story short, if you have the Holy Ghost, and if I have the Holy Ghost, your and my personal quirks are irrelevant. We ought to be able to relate to one another, or connect with one another, in the Holy Ghost. Personality becomes irrelevant, it's no longer the basis upon which we relate to others.

Blood is thicker than water, I have family that is as dysfunctional as a prime time soap opera - but they're still family. And that means something.

Those who are born again are my spiritual family, idiosyncrasies, quirks, faults, errors, and all. Like my natural family, they might irritate me to high heaven, but they're still family, and NEVER classed as "outsiders" in my book.

One last thing: if I disagree, even disagree SHARPLY with you or anyone else on this forum, it is not an "attack". I hold no ill will toward you or any of the brethren and sisters here. I will try in the future not to give that impression. But honestly, we need to not be so sensitive to disagreements among brethren. Its nothing personal, and its not the end of the world. Maybe I'm just used to growing up surrounded by people with sharp, razor-like wit and heavy fists, so a good scrap between friends and family is completely normal to me. At the end of the day, I still care about you and everyone else here.

I have not taken the disagreements/attacks "to" personal and hope you have not either. We are contending for what we believe in. And I know I have more in common with you than most Apostolics.

But I guess thats how this all started. Peace and love

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

To me its a matter of I cant do nothing "in" a Church like that. I would be ashamed to ask someone to Church where there is more error than truth.

For we all stumble in many [ways]
Paul wrote a letter to Corinthians. There was carnal christian : 1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, [even] as unto babes in Christ.
But from the other site they are: 2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours
So we (the people) we are not appreciate and we mistake in many things but as the body of Christ we are Saints called of Jesus Christ!

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

When you visit a church, do you go looking to see what they have to offer you?

Or, what you can do to help them grow in the grace of God and reach souls for the kingdom?

Well I do check to see what doctrine it is they offer. As far as how I can help them that would be awesome. Thats always my desire. On the other hand when practically everything you offer them for their growth in grace they despise and think is heresy it does make it difficult.

What is a Church anyway?

15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

According to Paul a place where the truth resides.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Well I do check to see what doctrine it is they offer. As far as how I can help them that would be awesome. Thats always my desire. On the other hand when practically everything you offer them for their growth in grace they despise and think is heresy it does make it difficult.

What is a Church anyway?

15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

According to Paul a place where the truth resides.

What church will despise you praying for them? What church will despise you testifying about the grace of God, giving encouragement to those who need it? What church will despise you praying with people during "altar service"? What church will despise you showing up 30 minutes to an hour early every service and praying for success in the meeting?

Have you ever said, "I'm here to help, so point me toward the need"?

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Well I do check to see what doctrine it is they offer. As far as how I can help them that would be awesome. Thats always my desire. On the other hand when practically everything you offer them for their growth in grace they despise and think is heresy it does make it difficult.

What is a Church anyway?

15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

According to Paul a place where the truth resides.

Nobody can live out of the body of Christ.
Take care dont throw your self out of His body. out of His present, out of His guidance, out of His mercy and His will.


14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body [were] an eye, where [were] the hearing? If the whole [were] hearing, where [were] the smelling? 18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19 And if they were all one member, where [were] the body? 20 But now [are they] many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23 And those [members] of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely [parts] have more abundant comeliness. 24 For our comely [parts] have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that [part] which lacked: 25 That there should be no schism in the body; but [that] the members should have the same care one for another. 26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What church will despise you praying for them? What church will despise you testifying about the grace of God, giving encouragement to those who need it? What church will despise you praying with people during "altar service"? What church will despise you showing up 30 minutes to an hour early every service and praying for success in the meeting?

Have you ever said, "I'm here to help, so point me toward the need"?

Sorry friend but I guess you haven't been around that much.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Sorry friend but I guess you haven't been around that much.

I've been in this thing for 25 years, churches from Texas to Tennessee to Washington state to Oklahoma, charismatic, apostolic, twoness, baptist, campbellite, catholic, and lots in between.

Baptists, campbellites, and catholics don't want any help praying. Charismatics don't want any help in the altar unless youre on the approved list.

Never had a problem helping out an apostolic church.

Maybe your idea of helping out needs to be refined a bit?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I've been in this thing for 25 years, churches from Texas to Tennessee to Washington state to Oklahoma, charismatic, apostolic, twoness, baptist, campbellite, catholic, and lots in between.

Baptists, campbellites, and catholics don't want any help praying. Charismatics don't want any help in the altar unless youre on the approved list.

Never had a problem helping out an apostolic church.

Maybe your idea of helping out needs to be refined a bit?

I have a problem with what you're saying. It makes TRUTH NULL AND VOID. So we are supposed to just show up for Church....and do it early. And sit there while the truth is mocked and called heresy.

And IF we were to try to present our views we have then become "Absalom stealing the hearts of the people". So under your model we just smile and are very happy for the privelige of being able to go to "Church". Even tho most of the foundation doctrine is false not to mention the traditions of men that need be waded though.

Been there done that.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I have a problem with what you're saying. It makes TRUTH NULL AND VOID. So we are supposed to just show up for Church....and do it early. And sit there while the truth is mocked and called heresy.

And IF we were to try to present our views we have then become "Absalom stealing the hearts of the people". So under your model we just smile and are very happy for the privelige of being able to go to "Church". Even tho most of the foundation doctrine is false not to mention the traditions of men that need be waded though.

Been there done that.

maybe you can start your own home fellowship meeting . . .

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I have a problem with what you're saying. It makes TRUTH NULL AND VOID. So we are supposed to just show up for Church....and do it early. And sit there while the truth is mocked and called heresy.

And IF we were to try to present our views we have then become "Absalom stealing the hearts of the people". So under your model we just smile and are very happy for the privelige of being able to go to "Church". Even tho most of the foundation doctrine is false not to mention the traditions of men that need be waded though.

Been there done that.

Well then, you keep doing what you've been doing, and you'll keep having what you've been having.

Also, you have what appears to me to be a jaded opinion of church altogether, which causes you to miss what I was saying.

Michael, I have beliefs that to most American apostolics are far more radical than your own. I also do not believe in compromising the truth of the Gospel.

But I also find a way to help out however I can. I don't need to be the guy in the pulpit (though I function in a pulpit quite well).

Sometimes we just need to be the guy PRAYING FOR THE BRETHREN instead of just criticizing them for being less enlightened than ourselves.