Have we confused tongues/int. with prophecy?

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by missourimary

Edifying should be encouraging people to win the lost or encouraging them to keep the faith. Edification is NOT telling people they'll be raped or burn forever if they don't change. That's a warning, and it may be a rebuke. But it is definitely NOT building up. ...

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So in your state through interpretation of tongues God yelled at the church and said they'd be raped?

Please re-read my statement. I didn't say that was part of T&I. I said it didn't fall under the meaning of EDIFICATION.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by missourimary

Edification does mean to build up, Prax. Edifying should be encouraging people to win the lost or encouraging them to keep the faith. Edification is NOT telling people they'll be raped or burn forever if they don't change. That's a warning, and it may be a rebuke. But it is definitely NOT building up. And if the warning is for no certain thing and people just feel like they must be "bad" but don't know why, it's condemnation, not rebuke. Edification isn't "Joel Olsteen sound bytes" but it also isn't yelling at people and telling them God's rejecting them if they aren't bawling their eyes out.

From the other thread:

Originally Posted by missourimary

Please re-read my statement. I didn't say that was part of T&I. I said it didn't fall under the meaning of EDIFICATION.

Edification or building up may involved correcting someone or warning them but I never characterized warning or correcting as telling people they'd be raped etc etc.

Certainly if a saint is going astray they need correction and that correction is beneficial not destructive, so I would certainly see that as edification.

I see corrections and warnings in the bible too. Jesus warned and corrected in the letters to churches in Rev. Paul warned and corrected

2Co 13:2 I warned those who sinned before and all the others, and I warn them now while absent, as I did when present on my second visit, that if I come again I will not spare them--

Gal 5:21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Col 1:28 Him we proclaim, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone mature in Christ.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

So I would say that sometimes edification or building the body might require correcting or warning some, instructions of righteousness, if that is what the body or individuals need at the time

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by missourimary

I haven't said that they were or weren't. I'm not being dishonest, just trying to be respectful. Incoming PM, Prax.

Im not saying you are dishonest. Just trying to figure out what you are saying and why

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Edification or building up may involved correcting someone or warning them but I never characterized warning or correcting as telling people they'd be raped etc etc.

Certainly if a saint is going astray they need correction and that correction is beneficial not destructive, so I would certainly see that as edification.

I see corrections and warnings in the bible too. Jesus warned and corrected in the letters to churches in Rev. Paul warned and corrected

2Co 13:2 I warned those who sinned before and all the others, and I warn them now while absent, as I did when present on my second visit, that if I come again I will not spare them--

Gal 5:21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Col 1:28 Him we proclaim, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone mature in Christ.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

So I would say that sometimes edification or building the body might require correcting or warning some, instructions of righteousness, if that is what the body or individuals need at the time

The concepts of rebuke, warning, and edification have been wrongly used in some circles. They must come with "long-suffering and doctrine" and must be done with love--with the concern of the person being rebuked or warned in mind. It must also be profitable, not bringing despair. I disagree that warning or rebuke could be considered edification, but I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by missourimary

The concepts of rebuke, warning, and edification have been wrongly used in some circles. They must come with "long-suffering and doctrine" and must be done with love--with the concern of the person being rebuked or warned in mind. It must also be profitable, not bringing despair. I disagree that warning or rebuke could be considered edification, but I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

How could warning or rebuking done in love with long suffernig and doctrine not be good for the building?

That's what I don't get. Edification comes from the greek word for building a house or building....we are talking about something someone needs in their walk.

If a house has a leaking roof, you fix it. You do what the house needs, you do what is good for the building.

Act 20:31 Therefore watch and remember that for the time of three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
Act 20:32 And now, brothers, I commend you to God, and to the Word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

Of the word Thayer says
Thayer Definition:
1) to build a house, erect a building
1a) to build (up from the foundation)
1b) to restore by building, to rebuild, repair
2) metaphorically
2a) to found, establish
2b) to promote growth in Christian wisdom, affection, grace, virtue, holiness, blessedness
2c) to grow in wisdom and piety
I can therefore quite frankly see whatever the body or a member of the body needs to grow or continue growing to be "edification", including but not limited to correction, instruction

2Ti 3:16 Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the person dedicated to God may be capable and equipped for every good work.

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

How could warning or rebuking done in love with long suffernig and doctrine not be good for the building?

If it's done in love with longsuffering and doctrine it can build up. If it's not... that's different. We were told at my former church that reproof and rebuke were done in love, but they gave me nightmares and made me sick to my stomach.

2 Tim 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

That one's about preaching, not T&I.

2Ti 3:16 Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the person dedicated to God may be capable and equipped for every good work.

That one's about using scripture, not T&I.
1 Cor 14 seems to be the only chapter directly related to T&I. Interestingly, it's never mentioned in Acts.

14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

To get back on the topic though, I still believe DA and the others may be onto something.

Anyone ever hear T&I that told people to listen to the preacher?
Anyone every hear T&I to study the Bible?
How about to love one another? Stop gossiping? Exhibit mercy and love? Tell people how great God is? Praise, magnify and exalt God?

How many messages has anyone heard that they even remember? Even the next day?

[Praxeas]

BTW I think it is an important fact because the implication is that if someone interprets a tongue and it contains correction or warning for someone that interpreter is lying in the name of the Lord

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by missourimary

If it's done in love with longsuffering and doctrine it can build up. If it's not... that's different. We were told at my former church that reproof and rebuke were done in love, but they gave me nightmares and made me sick to my stomach.

Im here to discuss the general topic. Nothing I have been saying was in reference to your church sister. So if it's done the right way, edification can include the concept of correction?...you are actually agreeing with me then? I'm confused.

That one's about preaching, not T&I.

Talking about edification now...ok it's officiial, Im really confused now.lol

That one's about using scripture, not T&I.
1 Cor 14 seems to be the only chapter directly related to T&I. Interestingly, it's never mentioned in Acts.

I thought you made it clear earlier we were discussing what Edification means? That's what Im talking about

To get back on the topic though, I still believe DA and the others may be onto something.

ok

Anyone ever hear T&I that told people to listen to the preacher?

Yes

Anyone every hear T&I to study the Bible?

I don't recall

How about to love one another?

I think so

Stop gossiping?

I can't recall

Exhibit mercy and love?

I can't recal but wouldn't that be correction?

Tell people how great God is?

I've heard God describe Himself in such ways

Praise, magnify and exalt God?

Usually it's exhortation to the church to praise or magnify Him, not Him praying Himself

How many messages has anyone heard that they even remember? Even the next day?

Not verbatim, I also can't remember verbatim what the preaching was about.

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

...So if it's done the right way, edification can include the concept of correction?...you are actually agreeing with me then? I'm confused.

Edification might, T&I probably won't, by what I've seen in scripture.

Not verbatim, I also can't remember verbatim what the preaching was about.

I wasn't asking about verbatim--Many people can't do that. The questions were more rhetorical, they weren't directed to any one person. But as I was writing them I was surprised to realize I've heard several T&I "This is my prophet. Here him," but don't recall ever once hearing a message "My Word is life. Study and heed it." Yet the second would be much more in keeping with the Bible. Men fail. God's Word never fails.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by missourimary

Edification might, T&I probably won't, by what I've seen in scripture.

Ok Im still confused. You just indicated correction done in love is Edifying. Now you say "might", but tongues and interpretation probably won't? Yet Paul said

1Co 14:4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.
1Co 14:5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up (edified).

So both prophesying and interpretations can build up/edify the church. In fact Paul said

1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

I wasn't asking about verbatim--Many people can't do that. The questions were more rhetorical, they weren't directed to any one person. But as I was writing them I was surprised to realize I've heard several T&I "This is my prophet. Here him," but don't recall ever once hearing a message "My Word is life. Study and heed it." Yet the second would be much more in keeping with the Bible. Men fail. God's Word never fails.

If a person is speaking God's word then the assertion "yet the second would be much more in keeping with the bible" is subjective. There is no one standard message. As I said, whatever is needed for the body...if they need faith, faith. If they need direction, direction. If they need encouragement, encouragement. If they need, hope, hope. If they need to trust Him more, He'll speak to that. If He feels a visitor might need to hear something, He'll speak to that.