All trinatarians are lost!

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

It would be awful to get to heaven and not see the glorified Man Jesus but only know there is an invisible God somewhere in our midst.

There will always be a image of the invisible God, as we see throughout the Old Testament, that will never cease. What was the purpose of the Sonship, and why was He begotten? Matthew 1:20-21 KJVS
"while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived i in her is of the Holy Ghost. [21] And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." Did this not happen at His glorification? If so then this has been fulfilled. Agreed. Now why the law doesn't cease to exist it has been fulfilled, the same way as with the Son. Y'all being preincarnate Logos believers (not you Apostolic1ness) should understand this better then anyone.

There has been a fulfillment of the office of Sonship. That never means it ceases to exist. There is no more sacrifice to be made. In this God is all in all, and the sacrifice stands in Heaven before Him in the Tabernacle not made by hands, which is a mediation to satisfy His Holiness. While He lives in us to make intercession for us always, as the Holy Ghost.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

There will always be a image of the invisible God, as we see throughout the Old Testament, that will never cease. What was the purpose of the Sonship, and why was He begotten? Matthew 1:20-21 KJVS
"while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived i in her is of the Holy Ghost. [21] And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." Did this not happen at His glorification? If so then this has been fulfilled. Agreed. Now why the law doesn't cease to exist it has been fulfilled, the same way as with the Son. Y'all being preincarnate Logos believers (not you Apostolic1ness) should understand this better then anyone.

There has been a fulfillment of the office of Sonship. That never means it ceases to exist. There is no more sacrifice to be made. In this God is all in all, and the sacrifice stands in Heaven before Him in the Tabernacle not made by hands, which is a mediation to satisfy His Holiness. While He lives in us to make intercession for us always, as the Holy Ghost.

I think there should be a clear definition of what some call sonship.
some say sonship ended at Jesus' glorification. some say sonship will never cease.
The Glorified Messiah Jesus sets as supreme God right now on the throne.
There is no more the need for Jesus to pray "not my will but thine be done" no more is there the temptation of the devil. No more is there the need to die for the sins of humanity. Yet His atonement for sin is still in effect his mediation between God and man is still in effect. These are the works of the Son of God and of course these things still are active. For those who say sonship is never ceasing they are saying that Son who died and was buried and was raised from the dead now His glorified Body is on the throne. They are not saying Jesus is still asking the will of the Father to be done or would even say that its the Father that dwelleth in me He doeth the work. He could only say those things in is human capacity. They are not saying the servanthood and obedience to the Father plays out in heaven because Jesus is the manifestation of the Father now on the throne.

I believe what is being said by those that believe the sonship has ended is that Jesus' servanthood and things that consisted of his humanity such as praying to the Father and Jesus drawing a clear distinction between the flesh man Jesus and the Spirit of God. Such as when he said why do you call me good there is only one good and thats God. These distinctions have ended in the sense that Jesus is no longer a mortal man. But we should be careful not to think of Jesus as (turning into an invisible spirit) at his glorification and ascension. He is still our messiah and presently the son of God.

1John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus IS the Son of God?

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

I think there should be a clear definition of what some call sonship.
some say sonship ended at Jesus' glorification. some say sonship will never cease.
The Glorified Messiah Jesus sets as supreme God right now on the throne.
There is no more the need for Jesus to pray "not my will but thine be done" no more is there the temptation of the devil. No more is there the need to die for the sins of humanity. Yet His atonement for sin is still in effect his mediation between God and man is still in effect. These are the works of the Son of God and of course these things still are active. For those who say sonship is never ceasing they are saying that Son who died and was buried and was raised from the dead now His glorified Body is on the throne. They are not saying Jesus is still asking the will of the Father to be done or would even say that its the Father that dwelleth in me He doeth the work. He could only say those things in is human capacity. They are not saying the servanthood and obedience to the Father plays out in heaven because Jesus is the manifestation of the Father now on the throne.

I believe what is being said by those that believe the sonship has ended is that Jesus' servanthood and things that consisted of his humanity such as praying to the Father and Jesus drawing a clear distinction between the flesh man Jesus and the Spirit of God. Such as when he said why do you call me good there is only one good and thats God. These distinctions have ended in the sense that Jesus is no longer a mortal man. But we should be careful not to think of Jesus as (turning into an invisible spirit) at his glorification and ascension. He is still our messiah and presently the son of God.

1John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus IS the Son of God?

I agree besides bad verbage saying the Sonship has ended. I am saying it has been fulfilled. If we say it has ended it no longer holds any bearing and that's not what I'm implying at all. But I agree with the rest of your statement.

[Michael The Disciple]

We know for sure Jesus the man is still at the right hand of God.

Heb. 10:12-13

12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

We know we are waiting on the son of God to come down from Heaven for the Church.

1 Thess 1:9-10

9For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 10And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

There is a PERSON right now in Heaven, even Jesus who is the son of the true and living God.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

We know for sure Jesus the man is still at the right hand of God.

Heb. 10:12-13

12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

We know we are waiting on the son of God to come down from Heaven for the Church.

1 Thess 1:9-10

9For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 10And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

There is a PERSON right now in Heaven, even Jesus who is the son of the true and living God.

[Apostolic1ness]

lest there be any confusion Eternal as in always has been a Son. NO but always will be the Son YES.

[Esaias]

Preincarnate Logos believers? Does anyone believe the Logos was NOT "preincarnate"?

Reminds me of an old Zeppelin song: "Communication Breakdown, drives me insaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnne!"

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

We know for sure Jesus the man is still at the right hand of God.

Heb. 10:12-13

12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

We know we are waiting on the son of God to come down from Heaven for the Church.

1 Thess 1:9-10

9For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 10And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

There is a PERSON right now in Heaven, even Jesus who is the son of the true and living God.

No one ever said there wasnt a person? Standing at the Right hand of God? Ok Mike I hope you sound like these Trinitarians I've been talking to all day. I hope you understand that's symbolic for authority.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Preincarnate Logos believers? Does anyone believe the Logos was NOT "preincarnate"?

Reminds me of an old Zeppelin song: "Communication Breakdown, drives me insaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnne!"

Or the preincarnate Son Which if you ask me is the most non sensical language there is. But you know what I mean.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Or the preincarnate Son Which if you ask me is the most non sensical language there is. But you know what I mean.

Nobody here believes in "the preincarnate Son". Unless you mean "He who became the Son had an existence prior to Incarnation", which describes everyone here except the agnostics/atheists.