Why Do Muslims Accept The Testimony of One Man?

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

those are good points wii, i have yet to study paul's theology and how it is based on the scriptures. i have several books on order dealing with this subject, but from my memory of paul's writing, all of his theology is based on scriptures from the ot. i have more to study but thanks for pointing out these differences between the teachings of christ and paul. these are some books i have on order:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/030...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

None of those passages were from the letters of Paul.

Two were spoken by Jesus, one was from Peter, and the other was from James.

[larrylyates]

And yet, islam didn't even come into being until 600 years after Jesus and was indeed the work of one man.

[Dichotomy Girl]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

I did not ask you to quote from Genesis or Revelation or from the writings of Paul that were gathered by Constantine and his followers to exempt you from God's laws of worship and sacrifice that were established at the beginning of recorded time.

Here is what I asked and it was simple and straight:

Name a passage where Jesus said "I am your saviour" or Jesus said "pray to me" or Jesus said "worship me" then explain why you teach these things that Jesus did not teach yet claim to teach them in his name?

Here is what I think: The reason that you did not is because you can not. I can randomly pull passages from your own bible where Jesus deferred to God, Jesus prayed to God, Jesus fasted, Jesus practiced God's laws, and Jesus never DARED to put himself on an equal with God, just as the Quran teaches, and the bible teaches, and Paul (and you) do not teach.

Jesus: I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Jesus: And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

YOU: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. No one but Jesus Christ fits these verses"

The Quran:

“And in their footsteps We sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.

Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.”

Who is the false prophet? Jesus, who deferred to the One who sent Him and the Quran who declares he was sent with a Gospel and admonition to those who fear God (or) you who declare he was not "sent" (in direct contradiction to what Jesus himself said) but was actually God Himself?

John 14:6-7
New International Version (NIV)
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[a] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

[larrylyates]

This man was also God, and He was as genuinely God as He was genuinely man.

This truth is illustrated by the occasion when His parents lost Him. After visiting Jerusalem, on their way back home they discovered that Jesus was not with them. They doubled back and went to the temple, seeking the missing twelve-year-oldJesus. Luke 2:46 describes it thus: “And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the
midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.”
If we had been alive at the time when Luke had written his gospel story, and if we had gone to Luke and said, “Tell us, please, Dr. Luke, whom did Joseph and Mary find that day in the temple?” then he would have said, “Why, they found the twelve-year-old boy Jesus.”

But another voice has also spoken—the Old Testament prophet Malachi—and he has told us who was found in the temple that day: “Behold, I will send my messenger [John the Baptist], and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple”

Jehovah God is speaking. He tells us that John the Baptist would prepare the way before HIM, yet we know that John prepared the way for Jesus the Christ.

Matthew 3:3
For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Isaiah 40:3

King James Version (KJV)
3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

I know it takes spiritual insight to see it. but deny all you want it's there, plain as can be.

You can't pick and chose through the Bible, accepting this rejecting that. Jesus didn't write any of the Gospels. The were written by His disciples and Apostles. That's why we call our selves Apostolic. We follow the teachings of the Apostles, about Jesus.

On what basis or authority do you get to change their teachings and call them false prophets. ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God. But, the natural man receives not the things of God--they are foolishness to him, for they are spiritually discerned

[larrylyates]

The Jews understood His claims to be God.

John 10:30-33
30 I and my Father are one. [Numerically One]
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

None of those passages were from the letters of Paul.

Two were spoken by Jesus, one was from Peter, and the other was from James.

my point is that what you disagree with are the teachings of paul where christ becomes the sacrifice for sin and justification is through faith in the death and resurrection of christ instead of forgiving others and doing good works. your problem is with paul's writings. i have yet to study paul in depth, i don't have a problem with peter or james.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

my point is that what you disagree with are the teachings of paul where christ becomes the sacrifice for sin and justification is through faith in the death and resurrection of christ instead of forgiving others and doing good works. your problem is with paul's writings. i have yet to study paul in depth, i don't have a problem with peter or james.

True. I just suddenly realized that I did not actually credit the sources so I corrected them.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by larrylyates

This man was also God, and He was as genuinely God as He was genuinely man.

This truth is illustrated by the occasion when His parents lost Him. After visiting Jerusalem, on their way back home they discovered that Jesus was not with them. They doubled back and went to the temple, seeking the missing twelve-year-oldJesus. Luke 2:46 describes it thus: “And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the
midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.”
If we had been alive at the time when Luke had written his gospel story, and if we had gone to Luke and said, “Tell us, please, Dr. Luke, whom did Joseph and Mary find that day in the temple?” then he would have said, “Why, they found the twelve-year-old boy Jesus.”

But another voice has also spoken—the Old Testament prophet Malachi—and he has told us who was found in the temple that day: “Behold, I will send my messenger [John the Baptist], and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple”

Jehovah God is speaking. He tells us that John the Baptist would prepare the way before HIM, yet we know that John prepared the way for Jesus the Christ.

Matthew 3:3
For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Isaiah 40:3

King James Version (KJV)
3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

I know it takes spiritual insight to see it. but deny all you want it's there, plain as can be.

You can't pick and chose through the Bible, accepting this rejecting that. Jesus didn't write any of the Gospels. The were written by His disciples and Apostles. That's why we call our selves Apostolic. We follow the teachings of the Apostles, about Jesus.

On what basis or authority do you get to change their teachings and call them false prophets. ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God. But, the natural man receives not the things of God--they are foolishness to him, for they are spiritually discerned

They doubled back and went to the temple, seeking the missing twelve-year-oldJesus. Luke 2:46 describes it thus: “And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the
midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.”

This illustrates what?

On what basis or authority do you get to change their teachings and call them false prophets

On what basis do you say I "changed" teachings? I copied and pasted what it was written Jesus said then contrasted it with what you say. Who "changed" teachings then? The only "changed" teachings are in the changes between what it was written that Jesus taught and what Paul (and you) teach.

I know it takes spiritual insight to see it. but deny all you want it's there, plain as can be.

Yeah plain as can be. Which is why you cannot seem to manage a simple answer to a simple question.

Name a passage where Jesus said "I am your saviour" or Jesus said "pray to me" or Jesus said "worship me" then explain why you teach these things that Jesus did not teach yet claim to teach them in his name?

The Quran:

Allah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my
mother as gods in derogation of Allah’?” He will say: “Glory to Thee! never could I say
what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it.
Thou knowest what is in my heart . . .”

Is the Quran correct on this and if not please provide chapter and verse where it is not.

Isaiah 40:


Comfort, comfort my people,
says your God.
2 Speak tenderly to Jerusalem,
and proclaim to her
that her hard service has been completed,
that her sin has been paid for,
that she has received from the Lord’s hand
double for all her sins.
3 A voice of one calling:
“In the wilderness prepare
the way for the Lord[a];
make straight in the desert
a highway for our God.[b]
4 Every valley shall be raised up,
every mountain and hill made low;
the rough ground shall become level,
the rugged places a plain.
5 And the glory of the Lord will be revealed,
and all people will see it together.
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.”


6 A voice says, “Cry out.”
And I said, “What shall I cry?”


“All people are like grass,
and all their faithfulness is like the flowers of the field.
7 The grass withers and the flowers fall,
because the breath of the Lord blows on them.
Surely the people are grass.
8 The grass withers and the flowers fall,
but the word of our God endures forever.”


9 You who bring good news to Zion,
go up on a high mountain.
You who bring good news to Jerusalem,[c]
lift up your voice with a shout,
lift it up, do not be afraid;
say to the towns of Judah,
“Here is your God!”
10 See, the Sovereign Lord comes with power,
and he rules with a mighty arm.
See, his reward is with him,
and his recompense accompanies him.
11 He tends his flock like a shepherd:
He gathers the lambs in his arms
and carries them close to his heart;
he gently leads those that have young.

12 Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand,
or with the breadth of his hand marked off the heavens?
Who has held the dust of the earth in a basket,
or weighed the mountains on the scales
and the hills in a balance?
13 Who can fathom the Spirit[d] of the Lord,
or instruct the Lord as his counselor?
14 Whom did the Lord consult to enlighten him,
and who taught him the right way?
Who was it that taught him knowledge,
or showed him the path of understanding?

This is about Jesus? Really? It appears it did not 'work out' since Jerusalem was levelled flat about 30 years after Jesus was brought up into heaven.

This passage is about things to come, not things past. Kindly stop taking random "out of context" verses and twisting them to your own personal meaning. In other words, include it all, in context, then make your point. Thanks

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

John 14:6-7
New International Version (NIV)
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[a] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

John 5:30 “I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because fI seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.