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Old 11-13-2017, 03:19 PM
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Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 KJV (1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (2) That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. (3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (5) Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? (6) And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. (7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
The subject is the coming of the Lord and our gathering together with Him. This is unquestionably what "the rapture" concept is about - the return of the Lord and our being gathered together with Him.

That day is not "at hand", meaning it is NOT IMMINENT. Pre trib rapture heresy claims the rapture is an "imminent" event, meaning it could happen AT ANY TIME.

That day shall NOT COME until and except there is FIRST the "apostasy" and the rise of the "man of sin". Furthermore, the "man of sin" is to be revealed BEFORE that day of the Lord's coming and our gathering together with Him takes place.

The man of sin is DESTROYED by the COMING OF THE LORD. There is obviously one coming of the Lord being discussed in this chapter, and it includes "our gathering together with Him". Thus, the pre trib nonsense about "first the rapture, then the visible coming of the Lord" is just that - nonsense.

The pre trib rapture heresy teaches that the Lord comes, and we are gathered together with Him, BEFORE the man of sin is on the scene. Furthermore, it teaches that we are gathered together to the Lord at some event OTHER than the coming of the Lord in which the man of sin is destroyed. Both of which are in direct contradiction to the plain and unambiguous statements of the apostle.

This is apostolic doctrine, as taught by an apostle. Pre trib rapture doctrine is NOT APOSTOLIC. It is no more apostolic than trinity idolatry, easy believism, sinner's prayerism, sprinkling, confession to a priest, or kissing the pope's ring.
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Old 11-13-2017, 06:29 PM
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

I beg to differ.

To teach saints that the wrath of God depicted in the book of Rev. will be poured out on the inhabitants of the earth along with the saints is heresy in the highest order.
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Old 11-13-2017, 06:33 PM
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come
; and who shall be able to stand?




Noah spared God's wrath, Lot spared God's wrath, Saints un-spared?

Not a chance.
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Old 11-13-2017, 07:07 PM
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

As is usually the case with heresies, the proponents of said heresies never can point to a passage which directly teaches what they teach. No pre trib rapture proponent can point to a passage which clearly and unequivocally declares that the coming of the Lord and our gathering together with Him will occur BEFORE the apostasy, the revealing of the man of sin, and his destruction. Not one passage.

Instead, they kerfuffle and herharrumfle from this to that to that other thing off yonder, always dancing around the actual plain statements of scripture.

Pre trib is heretical, unbiblical, non apostolic nonsense. Invented in the 1830s by a (false) prophetess named Margaret MacDonald, picked up by the Brethren movement who gave us both heresies of dispensationalism and pre trib rapturism, and popularised by Cyrus Scofield, a rascal's rascal and an undeniably fraudulent huckster.
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Old 11-13-2017, 07:29 PM
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

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Old 11-13-2017, 07:34 PM
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

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Old 11-13-2017, 07:56 PM
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

Revelation 20:1-6 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. (2) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, (3) And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. (4) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
The first resurrection occurs at the beginning of the thousand years. Satan is bound at the beginning of the thousand years. According to pre trib rapture heresy, the first resurrection occurs some 7 years before the thousand years begins. According to pre trib rapture heresy, satan is unopposed to run the earth into the ground via the beast and false prophet AFTER the first resurrection occurs.

Pre trib rapture heresy is a Biblical impossibility.
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Old 11-13-2017, 08:54 PM
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

1 Thessalonians 5:9 is the scripture by which I was taught that the church will be in heaven when the earth is going thru tribulation.
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:04 PM
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

Behold, the pre-trib verse......



Revelation 4:1King James Version (KJV)

4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.



.....hereafter the churches of Rev 1-3.
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:07 PM
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

Chapter 5.....the seals opened to unleash the wrath of God on the inhabitants of the earth.


Chapter 6.....the wrath begins....




Revelation 6King James Version (KJV)

6 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
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