Should the Message of Hell be preached in Churches

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Hell of the New Testament is contaminated with countless questions that we can't answer. That leaves people with a decision to make. Is it even real in the sense of Eternal Damnation?

Eternal torment is nowhere to be found in the Old Testament, and, a majority of the Human Race has never heard of Eternal Hell. God sending the mainstream of Humankind into a pit of unending torture makes absolutely no sense. Also, since Jesus vehemently rebuked the Religious, or those claiming “Right” according to Scripture, this can leave even the Faithful in doubt, as we have seen the clarity of Religious disorder in every known Faith on Earth.

Going to Hell becomes a maddening Witch Hunt, using this “Heavy” to deal with those who disagree with our motive towards God. If they disobey, they go to Hell. If they obey, they go to Heaven.

Since no original Texts exists, and the Catholic Church has had bizarre and unethical dealings with the past writings of Scripture (New Testament documents are in Greek), this radical idea that God is going to burn people forever reeks with Religion gone mad.

Also, with Denominal Religion on this Earth that number over 30,000, people are so flooded with ideas and interpretations about Salvation, determining who will go there is beyond anyone’s ability to accurately give people the Truth. Hell is total, “Hit and Miss”. We can hardly do what’s right with what we see, let alone with what we can’t see.

Hell in the hands of humans is a catastrophe.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/He...e_Forever.html

Interesting.

Do you see an eternal reward for the "Saved"? And what do you see for the "afterlife" of the unsaved? Nothing? Heaven? If heaven, would you be a universalist? I'm interested in your thoughts on the subject.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

This is exactly what satan wants to be taught to the Churches. Forget about Hell. Forget about "without holiness no one shall see the Lord". Be religous and "be nice".

Strong teaching in scripture is fairy tales!

satan is well please NFS.

[Rev]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

This is exactly what satan wants to be taught to the Churches. Forget about Hell. Forget about "without holiness no one shall see the Lord". Be religous and "be nice".

Strong teaching in scripture is fairy tales!

satan is well please NFS.

Very True!

[Scott Hutchinson]

The wicked will be punished and they will perish,so yes we should warn sinners to flee a resurrection of condemnation.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

You neglect the fact that according to their own testimony most people that are in the Churches are still committing sin. Yeshua said to these that their names will be blotted out of the book of life.

They should be told. Not many will ever hear this preached in their Church.

Many or most sitting in pews will be destroyed in the lake of fire.

I assume you're not one of them? lol

[Aquila]

Christians are sinners saved by the grace of God. We struggle with sin. Sin is like a chronic spiritual disease, a spiritual cancer. We all have it. For some, it's in remission and the symptoms aren't apparent. But there are days when this "condition" flares up and the symptoms become apparent through our actions. The Christian identifies these symptoms and then we confess, repent, and get the condition back into remission. However, if any Christian ignores the symptoms and allows them to run unchecked, eventually they will not only lead to a hastened physical death... but the condition will corrupt the spirit.... leading to spiritual death.

So far... I'm a sin survivor. I have days when I battle my condition and the symptoms get the best of me. However, through the grace of God, I can get these symptoms back in check and live an overcoming life through Christ Jesus.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

This is exactly what satan wants to be taught to the Churches. Forget about Hell. Forget about "without holiness no one shall see the Lord". Be religous and "be nice".

Strong teaching in scripture is fairy tales!

satan is well please NFS.

EXCELLENT and TREMENDOUS exegesis, Michael the Theologian. Everything is clear now. One person says, "I have a differing opinion." Michael the Theologian says, "You're going to burn in hell and the devil loves you."

We need more of you!!!

[Apocrypha]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think it depends on which church you go to. I've heard hundreds of sermons about sin and hell (primarily relating to dress standards and television)... but I've never heard one sermon or lesson on Heaven itself.

When was the last time anyone here has heard a sermon or lesson specifically about "Heaven"??? When was the last time anyone here has heard a sermon specifically about "Hell" or going to Hell where Hell was described? I'm willing to wager we've heard far more about Hell.

http://www.growingchurch.info/media/...%20Webster.mp3

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

Interesting.

Do you see an eternal reward for the "Saved"? And what do you see for the "afterlife" of the unsaved? Nothing? Heaven? If heaven, would you be a universalist? I'm interested in your thoughts on the subject.

MS, I believe all Doctrines (Religious, Political, Moral, Secular Education, ect.) need the element of a defined measurement. When God created the Heavens and the Earth, we are awed by this miracle that can be “Measured”. Guess work is removed by the gauge, compass, ruler, and the many other forms of instruments that give us a defined answer. I believe even miracles can be measured.

I have come to understand things, by things, taking the guess work out of Faith. I’m tired of people saying things that lead to the dead end road or more guessing. I don’t believe God wants us to guess, He wants us to know. Jesus said that Truth will make us free, and valid Truth will, not guessed Truth. Guessed Truth leads to bondage, suffering, manipulation, murder, and Religious dogma that destroys.

In my own life, I’ve come to use 4 main principles to define Truth; Experience, History, Science, and Common Sense. I believe God has given us these to Test the validity of virtually anything, including God Himself. I don’t want to sidetrack from the concept of Eternal Damnation, so here is my opinion of Hell.

First, Experience is no longer a distant concept in my life. I’ve been married 30 years, raised 3 children, have 6 grandchildren, have pastored for 14 years, been in Apostolic Church for 32 years, and have read the Bible more times than I can count. I’ve suffered, rejoiced, fallen, risen, loved, hated, and have worked hard all of my life. God gives every man, Experience. Experience is our greatest teacher, and understanding comes to those who will endure the many years of everyday living.

Through Experience, we come to know the power and love of relationship. This is the most prominent part of a person; how they deal with people. Through love, patience, and much long suffering, we reap great knowledge concerning human compassion and mercy. We learn that those that come from our loins will always be our children. Even when they fail, we still love. Even when they hurt us, we still reach for them. And, never would we send them into Eternal Flames to suffer for the wrongs they’ve done in life. In the Bible, there are countless Scriptures that refer to God as our Father, and we His sons and daughters. We are able to compare God’s feeling for us through our earthly experience of Family.

Through History, we can analyze the past to see the downfalls of Societies, Religions, and Politics. We can see how people stood up with the Truth of Measurement, and how they were cast to the dogs of execution, imprisonment, and excommunication. History can also validate what God’s Chosen were taught. Nowhere in Jewish History before the New Testament, did the mainstay of Jewish society teach of such a place as Eternal Fire, where people would live in unending torment. This alone poses a huge problem, as suddenly this “Place” appears in more modern documents. If God determined this consequence or punishment for fallen mankind, it would have been known since the beginning. History would reveal a consistent pattern of something so brutal, but it doesn’t.

Science is beyond awesome, as we’ve come to learn things by the use of microscopes, x-rays, laboratories, telescopes, space travel, and so on. This allows us to verify; is the Earth flat or round? Does life begin in the womb? How can we conquer disease? How does the human body work? Is it possible to predict the weather? By Science, we can look at Religion to validate a hoax or Truth. I started a Thread on Noah’s Ark, revealing a scientific catastrophe that many have never considered. Food, water, animal waste, the ability of the Ark being able to even float, all this and more revealed a host of problems that we mustn’t ignore. Eternal Hell, in its scientific form is beyond sick. People wailing forever in flames and darkness, when measured, leaves even the worst of humanity as saints. I’m not even sure Hitler could stand by, listening to the screams of people in agony as they begged for deliverance into the eons of nothingness.

Common Sense is nothing more than simple sense. In my line of work there is what is called the Golden Rule. As an insurance agent, I’m required to use this common sense approach when advising my clients; what would I do for myself? This works, as I look across my desk when people are asking me what they should do to protect themselves. According to Scripture, God made man in His image. I believe we have a basic format in us that relates directly to our Creator. Mercy, love, forgiveness, and many other attributes were birthed in us by the One who made us. Looking at the Christian Hell, common sense in me does not understand why God would continue to allow man to propagate the Earth so the belly of Hell can be full. If mankind is truly that bad, this whole mess should have been done away with long ago.

When Jesus walked this Earth, consider these people; The Adulterous Woman, the Sinner smiting his breast, the Prodigal Son, the Woman at the well, the Thief on the cross, those who crucified Jesus (Father forgive them, for they know not what they do), the Demoniac, the Roman Centurion, the man left dead in the ditch by thieves. Everywhere you turn, you find Jesus extending mercy to the fallen and sick. Sorry, but I can’t imagine Jesus sending people over a cliff into this extreme chasm of Torture. It just doesn’t measure up. It’s not the same Jesus that was reaching to the dead, hungry, and lonely. It’s not the same Jesus who killed the fatted calf when the son came home. It’s not the same Jesus who reached into a grave and raised a dead man.

Eternal Damnation appears to be an onslaught of Interpretation/Translation error. I’ve attached a link at the bottom that reveals a host of problems concerning our current understanding of what Hell is via the Bible we use.

What happens after we die is a mystery. I don’t have a telephone to call God on, asking Him how things are going up there. The Jews of old went around and around over this. I’m honest, my take on the afterlife is uncertain, and I leave that to God. Everyone wants to live forever in peace, joy, love, and where we cry no more. But I’m not there yet, so I can’t say what it’s like. I want to be safe, so I admit my lack of understanding to the Lord. I cry, and ask Him to help me in my limited form and frame. I beat my chest daily, and I know I’m just a man.

I see this World as God’s doing. He made everything. And, He is well able to redeem the unredeemable.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/He...e_Forever.html

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

MS, I believe all Doctrines (Religious, Political, Moral, Secular Education, ect.) need the element of a defined measurement. When God created the Heavens and the Earth, we are awed by this miracle that can be “Measured”. Guess work is removed by the gauge, compass, ruler, and the many other forms of instruments that give us a defined answer. I believe even miracles can be measured.

I have come to understand things, by things, taking the guess work out of Faith. I’m tired of people saying things that lead to the dead end road or more guessing. I don’t believe God wants us to guess, He wants us to know. Jesus said that Truth will make us free, and valid Truth will, not guessed Truth. Guessed Truth leads to bondage, suffering, manipulation, murder, and Religious dogma that destroys.

In my own life, I’ve come to use 4 main principles to define Truth; Experience, History, Science, and Common Sense. I believe God has given us these to Test the validity of virtually anything, including God Himself. I don’t want to sidetrack from the concept of Eternal Damnation, so here is my opinion of Hell.

First, Experience is no longer a distant concept in my life. I’ve been married 30 years, raised 3 children, have 6 grandchildren, have pastored for 14 years, been in Apostolic Church for 32 years, and have read the Bible more times than I can count. I’ve suffered, rejoiced, fallen, risen, loved, hated, and have worked hard all of my life. God gives every man, Experience. Experience is our greatest teacher, and understanding comes to those who will endure the many years of everyday living.

Through Experience, we come to know the power and love of relationship. This is the most prominent part of a person; how they deal with people. Through love, patience, and much long suffering, we reap great knowledge concerning human compassion and mercy. We learn that those that come from our loins will always be our children. Even when they fail, we still love. Even when they hurt us, we still reach for them. And, never would we send them into Eternal Flames to suffer for the wrongs they’ve done in life. In the Bible, there are countless Scriptures that refer to God as our Father, and we His sons and daughters. We are able to compare God’s feeling for us through our earthly experience of Family.

Through History, we can analyze the past to see the downfalls of Societies, Religions, and Politics. We can see how people stood up with the Truth of Measurement, and how they were cast to the dogs of execution, imprisonment, and excommunication. History can also validate what God’s Chosen were taught. Nowhere in Jewish History before the New Testament, did the mainstay of Jewish society teach of such a place as Eternal Fire, where people would live in unending torment. This alone poses a huge problem, as suddenly this “Place” appears in more modern documents. If God determined this consequence or punishment for fallen mankind, it would have been known since the beginning. History would reveal a consistent pattern of something so brutal, but it doesn’t.

Science is beyond awesome, as we’ve come to learn things by the use of microscopes, x-rays, laboratories, telescopes, space travel, and so on. This allows us to verify; is the Earth flat or round? Does life begin in the womb? How can we conquer disease? How does the human body work? Is it possible to predict the weather? By Science, we can look at Religion to validate a hoax or Truth. I started a Thread on Noah’s Ark, revealing a scientific catastrophe that many have never considered. Food, water, animal waste, the ability of the Ark being able to even float, all this and more revealed a host of problems that we mustn’t ignore. Eternal Hell, in its scientific form is beyond sick. People wailing forever in flames and darkness, when measured, leaves even the worst of humanity as saints. I’m not even sure Hitler could stand by, listening to the screams of people in agony as they begged for deliverance into the eons of nothingness.

Common Sense is nothing more than simple sense. In my line of work there is what is called the Golden Rule. As an insurance agent, I’m required to use this common sense approach when advising my clients; what would I do for myself? This works, as I look across my desk when people are asking me what they should do to protect themselves. According to Scripture, God made man in His image. I believe we have a basic format in us that relates directly to our Creator. Mercy, love, forgiveness, and many other attributes were birthed in us by the One who made us. Looking at the Christian Hell, common sense in me does not understand why God would continue to allow man to propagate the Earth so the belly of Hell can be full. If mankind is truly that bad, this whole mess should have been done away with long ago.

When Jesus walked this Earth, consider these people; The Adulterous Woman, the Sinner smiting his breast, the Prodigal Son, the Woman at the well, the Thief on the cross, those who crucified Jesus (Father forgive them, for they know not what they do), the Demoniac, the Roman Centurion, the man left dead in the ditch by thieves. Everywhere you turn, you find Jesus extending mercy to the fallen and sick. Sorry, but I can’t imagine Jesus sending people over a cliff into this extreme chasm of Torture. It just doesn’t measure up. It’s not the same Jesus that was reaching to the dead, hungry, and lonely. It’s not the same Jesus who killed the fatted calf when the son came home. It’s not the same Jesus who reached into a grave and raised a dead man.

Eternal Damnation appears to be an onslaught of Interpretation/Translation error. I’ve attached a link at the bottom that reveals a host of problems concerning our current understanding of what Hell is via the Bible we use.

What happens after we die is a mystery. I don’t have a telephone to call God on, asking Him how things are going up there. The Jews of old went around and around over this. I’m honest, my take on the afterlife is uncertain, and I leave that to God. Everyone wants to live forever in peace, joy, love, and where we cry no more. But I’m not there yet, so I can’t say what it’s like. I want to be safe, so I admit my lack of understanding to the Lord. I cry, and ask Him to help me in my limited form and frame. I beat my chest daily, and I know I’m just a man.

I see this World as God’s doing. He made everything. And, He is well able to redeem the unredeemable.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/He...e_Forever.html

Very interesting and thoughtful. Many valid points that should be seriously considered.

Let me ask you this concerning heaven...the book of Revelation seems to be clear and detailed as to this subject. Where would you fit that book into this discussion?