Are mega-churches the ecit door from organized chu

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Wilsonwas

I think it rather interesting that a Forbes contributer would write-
"What is emerging in the wake of this decline is a uniquely American brand of post-religious spirituality. America’s smaller, community-driven Little Rectangular Churches are being steadily replaced by her entrepreneurial, consumer-oriented Big Round Churches. Authority once wielded by religious denominations is being replaced by the entertaining magnetism of a charismatic pastor, attracting a hardened remnant of fundamentalist believers unconcerned about the moral implications of commercialized faith. As community ties and social capital steadily weaken, Organized Religion is losing ground to Disorganized Religion.

It’s not hard to appreciate the appeal of the Big Round Church compared to the older, community-driven models. How convenient would it be to visit for a church service, be entertained by elite professionals, pay your fee for spiritual services rendered, and just leave? Disorganized Religion replaces traditional religious identities and their accompanying entanglements and authority structures with a model in which the customer is always right. Paid employees handle all the details from parking to teaching classes. No need to serve on committees. None of the hassles of maintenance or governance disturb the workweek. No one expects to have to contribute their time to maintain the facilities at Starbucks or McDonalds, so why shouldn’t we expect a similar consumer experience from a church?

This isn’t strictly speaking a religious problem, but a social trend. Our steady slide toward disorganization is a fully global phenomenon that extends beyond religion into every aspect of social organization. A freer world marked by global capitalism presses consumer values into every institution, from family to politics. Decades of growing disengagement from the messy, time-consuming groundwork of social engagement helps explain situations as seemingly unconnected as the decline of PTA’s and the rise of Donald Trump. As we reap the benefits of global markets, growing personal freedom, and the technical wonders of the innovation age, we are shedding any sense of connectedness. We rarely experience the local community accountability that was an assumed feature of life in previous generations.

In countries with thinner social capital institutions the declining power of organized religion has posed an existential threat. As accountable and reasonable religious figures lose influence, they have been replaced by extremist entertainers and fundamentalist revolutionaries. Devolution of power away from traditional institutions creates anxiety for many, anxiety that’s often displayed in the shape of fanatical extremism and desperate efforts to shore up a disintegrating religious culture by political mandate. It is not religious enthusiasm, but religious decline, that feeds fundamentalism. We are not immune.



America seems unlikely to suffer as much pain from the decline of organized religion as Middle Eastern countries, but we seem unwilling to give up that “olde tyme religion” as gracefully as the Europeans. One day the dominant branches of Christianity in America may be as philosophical in outlook and unsuperstitious in belief as the bulk of Western Judaism. Mainline Protestant denominations are, for the most part, already on their way toward this end. Catholicism may not be far behind.

Religion will not simply fade away. It seems to be wired into the fabric of our existence. In the absence of some organized form, we will construct it out of whatever spare parts we can find.

Regardless of what else happens to our culture, Christians will continue to gather to discuss the meaning of their faith and build their communities. They still do this in Europe, though on a much smaller scale than in the past. In its late stages, mature disorganized Christianity might grow less enthralled by the fantastic while remaining a significant cultural force. We’ll see.

Perhaps one day tourists will quietly marvel at our great glass megachurches while token services are carried on in the background for atmosphere. These churches will make much better sight-seeing stops than European cathedrals since they are already equipped with coffee houses, restaurants, and book stores.

Be sure to stop by the gift shop on the way out.

Chris Ladd, former GOP Precinct Committeeman, author of The Politics of Crazy and creator of PoliticalOrphans.

This, to me, is just another MSM attempt at controlling the narrative to convince the Christians in the USA that the sky is falling. Look, even if there are over 1,000 mega-churches in the USA, with at least over 1,000 members each, that's only approximately a million constituents. So, even if you quadrupled that number to 4,000,000 as attendees of mega-churches, where do all the other 100,000,000 people attend?

That's right, in small, community churches in pockets of fifty to one hundred or so. And sometimes less. But the point is made. The writer of the article is either cracked, woefully misinformed, far removed from life on the ground, or has an intentional agenda.

[Wilsonwas]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

This, to me, is just another MSM attempt at controlling the narrative to convince the Christians in the USA that the sky is falling. Look, even if there are over 1,000 mega-churches in the USA, with at least over 1,000 members each, that's only approximately a million constituents. So, even if you quadrupled that number to 4,000,000 as attendees of mega-churches, where do all the other 100,000,000 people attend?



That's right, in small, community churches in pockets of fifty to one hundred or so. And sometimes less. But the point is made. The writer of the article is either cracked, woefully misinformed, far removed from life on the ground, or has an intentional agenda.

Could be, all the little baptist churches we drive past are doing fine.
The bit that got me had to do with the appeal of no commitment, positive message with no conviction, and entertainment as a center. If millinials are the "no marketing works on us" group, who is filling these places.

[Esaias]

All "news" is propaganda aimed at controlling perception...

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Wilsonwas

Could be, all the little baptist churches we drive past are doing fine.
The bit that got me had to do with the appeal of no commitment, positive message with no conviction, and entertainment as a center. If millinials are the "no marketing works on us" group, who is filling these places.

How many people are first time visitors who just want to check out a megachurch while on vacation? Who are all the millions of people who go to Disneyland every year? Same thing. Yet, they bank on it.

Millennials have gotten a severely bad rap. Partly because there's no good way to define what it means, or how to quantify that definition, but also because many millenials are children of the so-called Generation X generation, that couldn't be labelled or handled, or whatever, because they are the first generation in which actual post-modern thinking finally took hold in the West across the board.

And many millennials are rejecting the post-modernism of their parents. They want rules, and structure, and organization, and labels, and definitions, propositional statements, and etc. The Emergent church thing that bled into the megachurch mentality is going on 20 years old at least, and is not made up of millennials, but mid-age hipsters born in the 70's.

Those are the people filling the seats in megachurches. Forty year olds who haven't grown up and cannot shoulder a responsibility. That's why they like it when someone else does everything for them. Just pay your tithe or offering on your phone and swipe right.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

In our rural county, there are no churches that have a membership larger than 200. Sadly, most of the population does not attend any church at all. We have 20,000 people in the entire county. 2,000 might attend church of all kinds.

I attended a mega church when I was in college. I prefer a church with a membership of less than 200.

A couple of notes;

If a church is carrying out the great commission they will be growing and unless constricted by being in an area of limited population should be come a mega church or mother church with daughter works.

The sad thing is that even with so many successful mega churches as you mentioned the majority of pretty much any town in America doesn't attend church.

I life in the Bible Belt in a town of about 130,000 people and attend a Mega Church running around 3300-3500 people per weekend (plus a daughter work in a neighboring county running about 370). Besides us there is a larger Mega Church in our city running probably 7-8,000 people then maybe a handful of churches running around 2,000. All in all probably no more than 20% of our towns population is in church any given weekend despite being in the bible belt and having these large churches.

[Wilsonwas]

Originally Posted by CC1

A couple of notes;

If a church is carrying out the great commission they will be growing and unless constricted by being in an area of limited population should be come a mega church or mother church with daughter works.

The sad thing is that even with so many successful mega churches as you mentioned the majority of pretty much any town in America doesn't attend church.

I life in the Bible Belt in a town of about 130,000 people and attend a Mega Church running around 3300-3500 people per weekend (plus a daughter work in a neighboring county running about 370). Besides us there is a larger Mega Church in our city running probably 7-8,000 people then maybe a handful of churches running around 2,000. All in all probably no more than 20% of our towns population is in church any given weekend despite being in the bible belt and having these large churches.

The feild is large, the mechanics of the harvest are where I wonder.

Is it sufficient to expect the spirit to draw folks as some seem to say here. Or are there new dynamics that a church looking to grow needs to account for in the messaging used.

I cannot think of a time where so many younger folk have a rather Godless and socialist view. Saying to them that Jesus loves them, and inviting them to church maybe needs a preface? How do we first even get their attention, when many think we are just crazy people that beleive "in a magical invisible dude in the sky". A term they use with little regard. Even 20 years back I did not see such open disregard to religions.

[Amanah]

We can't get their attention without laying our lives down so that the Spirit can work through us.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Wilsonwas

The feild is large, the mechanics of the harvest are where I wonder.

Is it sufficient to expect the spirit to draw folks as some seem to say here. Or are there new dynamics that a church looking to grow needs to account for in the messaging used.

I cannot think of a time where so many younger folk have a rather Godless and socialist view. Saying to them that Jesus loves them, and inviting them to church maybe needs a preface? How do we first even get their attention, when many think we are just crazy people that beleive "in a magical invisible dude in the sky". A term they use with little regard. Even 20 years back I did not see such open disregard to religions.

I reckon if somebody got healed that would draw that person and most everyone they know?

Or maybe God has decided there's only room for 8 folks in the ark?

[Aquila]

Most of the Millennials I talk to equate "Christianity" with the "Republican Party" or the political "Right Wing Conservative" movement. They don't even really see it as a "religion" or acknowledge that it has a "spirituality" beyond gun toting, Bible thumping, flag waving, queer bashing, conservatism (false stereo type or not). As mentioned previously, they are typically left of center in their politics. Their equating Christianity with the Republican Party causes an instant disconnect. Those Millennials that I know that happen to be spiritual seem to be drawn to Buddhism or some sect of Hinduism (a good friend of mine is into Shivaism). Neither of these faiths have a right wing baggage associated with Christianity in the United States.

I think it would serve the church well to divorce itself from being aligned with any earthly political party or movement. We should focus on the Gospel, charity, relieving the poor and oppressed, and be a voice for positive change in society. Instead of marching under the banner of a given party, we should be serving the whole of society.

Divorcing ourselves from right wing radicalism, focusing on the spiritual aspects of Christianity, and the demonstration of spiritual gifts and power, will do more to attract Millennials than our unwritten "Republicans Only" standard.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by CC1

A couple of notes;

If a church is carrying out the great commission they will be growing and unless constricted by being in an area of limited population should be come a mega church or mother church with daughter works.

So, nobody was really fulfilling the Great Commission until the mid-late 20th century?

How many mega-churches were there in Corinth? Ephesus? You do realise the very term "mega-church" implies an abnormally large church, bigger than usual, larger than normally expected?

Jesus carried out the Great Commission and after 3.5 years was left with about 120 that bothered to pay attention to what He was saying. Did John have a mega-church? What about Noah? Cruise ship mega-church with Bible petting zoo on board?`Long-term commitment needed, maybe?