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  #21  
Old 02-21-2012, 09:31 PM
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crakjak crakjak is offline
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Re: Check this Book Out!!

[QUOTE=Jay;1140025]I have sat many times under the preaching of Hell fire. I have never once felt abused by that fact. I have afterward searched my heart because I desire to be perfect in the eyes of God. I am fully aware of how far I must go to attain that position, but I will not cease. I love my God and do not wish to fail Him, however, I also bear in mind the recompense that is due when I contemplate rebellion against His authority. My aversion to pain and suffering is enough to make me want to get as close to Jesus as possible.

The problem with Catholicism is that they take away from the doctrine of Hell by adding other doctrines to comfort their souls such as purgatory and limbo. Further, they will actually put more people into purgatory than they will ever say went to Hell.

I believe that Hell is a place of eternal pain, suffering, and explicit photographic memory. I believe that the cravings that caused a person to rebel against the Lord during life will remain and torment them after death. I do not believe that there is any release for those that are eternally lost for it is not located in Scripture.[/QUOTE]

That my friend is the most sad possible news, and I completely disagree with your view.

I have had a heart and a pursuit of God all of my life, and He has graciously revealed Himself to be a truly loving heavenly Father. Answering my prayer to "know Him as He really is", though it is not yet totally complete.

All will for sure be "salted by fire", or purified by fire. And that is the great Good News.
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  #22  
Old 02-22-2012, 07:34 AM
bbyrd009 bbyrd009 is offline
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Re: Check this Book Out!!

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Originally Posted by Jay View Post
I have sat many times under the preaching of Hell fire. I have never once felt abused by that fact. I have afterward searched my heart because I desire to be perfect in the eyes of God. I am fully aware of how far I must go to attain that position, but I will not cease. I love my God and do not wish to fail Him, however, I also bear in mind the recompense that is due when I contemplate rebellion against His authority. My aversion to pain and suffering is enough to make me want to get as close to Jesus as possible.

The problem with Catholicism is that they take away from the doctrine of Hell by adding other doctrines to comfort their souls such as purgatory and limbo. Further, they will actually put more people into purgatory than they will ever say went to Hell.

I believe that Hell is a place of eternal pain, suffering, and explicit photographic memory. I believe that the cravings that caused a person to rebel against the Lord during life will remain and torment them after death. I do not believe that there is any release for those that are eternally lost for it is not located in Scripture.
I was raised with this, and it is sad. It is surely the best we could do at the time, and for all I know was just what was needed for the common mindset at the time. But it has completely gutted the Good News, imo, which for most people translates into "get 'saved,' and go hide in your house and wait for armageddon, except to stick your head out on Sunday to go to church," or even worse for the Kingdom, imo, go blather some memorized Scripture at strangers."

Jay, I know you love God, and you don't know me, but I know you well enough to say that you might consider those many, many verses that you can't really explain that would provide the..."release" that you currently deny. Grace as "leaven," that one time. "Each man will get his reward." "To vindicate the orphan and the oppressed, So that man who is of the earth will no longer cause terror."

You are comfortable with the death centered message, imo, like I was, because you are convinced that you are garbage in God's eyes, paraphrased, and this has been pounded into you from birth. A "future" stay in hell is your greatest fear, and you recruit the fearful, who by definition will not be able to stand.

Your greatest joy, your biggest carrot for them, is a possibility of Heaven, someday, maybe. It is a miracle that anyone finds God this way, but they do, when they get wise and chuck all this. It is not God's way.

Why does one fear hell? Because they are LOST. Why would a Christian pastor hold out the possibility of eternal life in some ephemeral, hereafter "eternity?" Because that's all...they...got. The Bible has never said this to me, not since age 9.

I'm not scared of hell, and personally I seriously doubt that you are. Hell is scared of me. So why teach fear of hell, again? It works like negative reinforcement works on animals--barely. I just ask that you read this book (and I just hope it is the right one) with an open mind, whoever you are. God has no interest in scaring you into Heaven, that is completely pointless.

See that you are not going to avoid fire as a Christian anyway, all that yack they tell you just causes you to run from the fire that will refine you. Suck it up and recognize that to be a real Christian, you are going to burn, and it is going to hurt, if you are doing it right. The same fire that torments in eternity, and is "hell" for the "lost," is the exact same fire that you will be immune to, for you will have been refined.

God is my Father, what have I to fear? Bring it; show me.
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  #23  
Old 02-22-2012, 07:48 AM
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Re: Check this Book Out!!

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Originally Posted by bbyrd009 View Post
Ha, I'm not into modalism, or I'd be embarrassed that I had to Google that! Lol. No, I am not a universalist, at least according to wikipedia. But I have gone to their services before (a long time ago) and one would think that a doctrine like this would produce degenerates--I'm kind of missing their whole point, actually.

ps and the uni church I attended didn't seem degenerate; i remem them being pretty vibrant.
Not everyone needs the threat of torture to be good.
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  #24  
Old 02-22-2012, 08:44 AM
bbyrd009 bbyrd009 is offline
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Re: Check this Book Out!!

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Not everyone needs the threat of torture to be good.
Guess not. While I don't really grasp their point, i guess it's because I haven't read their mission statement, or whatever, because the wikipedia def of "Uni" would seem to me to promote sin, rather than alleviate it; but this is not what I saw, at all.
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  #25  
Old 02-22-2012, 09:35 AM
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Re: Check this Book Out!!

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Originally Posted by bbyrd009 View Post
Guess not. While I don't really grasp their point, i guess it's because I haven't read their mission statement, or whatever, because the wikipedia def of "Uni" would seem to me to promote sin, rather than alleviate it; but this is not what I saw, at all.
Was it a Unitarian Universalist meeting?

http://www.uua.org/beliefs/
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  #26  
Old 02-22-2012, 11:02 AM
bbyrd009 bbyrd009 is offline
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Re: Check this Book Out!!

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Was it a Unitarian Universalist meeting?

http://www.uua.org/beliefs/
I don't remember, maybe Houston could say; it was the a fairly large place, there off 59S, between Sharpstown and Alief. I remember the kids, 12 year olds, struck me as quite mature. I was impressed; not sure why I never went to another...

And Jay, I hope you understand, I don't fault you. This is what we were given, inherited. I see that you are close here, to some understanding; why I feel this I don't know, but highlighting sin, the condemnation of sin, avoiding hellfire because of sin--this is just all another devious way to keep Law in people's faces. Bert with a smile, imo. Sorry, Bert. I know this seems unpleasant (sorry, Matt : )

Last edited by bbyrd009; 02-22-2012 at 11:08 AM.
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  #27  
Old 02-22-2012, 02:15 PM
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Re: Check this Book Out!!

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Originally Posted by bbyrd009 View Post
I don't remember, maybe Houston could say; it was the a fairly large place, there off 59S, between Sharpstown and Alief. I remember the kids, 12 year olds, struck me as quite mature. I was impressed; not sure why I never went to another...

And Jay, I hope you understand, I don't fault you. This is what we were given, inherited. I see that you are close here, to some understanding; why I feel this I don't know, but highlighting sin, the condemnation of sin, avoiding hellfire because of sin--this is just all another devious way to keep Law in people's faces. Bert with a smile, imo. Sorry, Bert. I know this seems unpleasant (sorry, Matt : )


Did you just compare me to Bert!!!
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  #28  
Old 02-22-2012, 02:37 PM
bbyrd009 bbyrd009 is offline
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Re: Check this Book Out!!

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Did you just compare me to Bert!!!
Not you specifically, no. I have a suspicion that you are quite life affirming, despite your training as a lawyer. You demonstrate Grace without even meaning to. Leave the condemnation for the Berts of the world, imo. And the satans. We got legion there already.

When Grace is properly the focus and demonstrated, the ones who matter will seek the Law on their own, and as for the ones that don't, "What is the chaff to the wheat?" They would be the first flakes in the fire anyway.
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  #29  
Old 02-22-2012, 02:50 PM
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Re: Check this Book Out!!

Im reading Post Captian by Patrick O'Brian right now. im utterly inthralled. beyond the story his prose is brilliant!
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  #30  
Old 02-22-2012, 03:52 PM
bbyrd009 bbyrd009 is offline
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Re: Check this Book Out!!

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
...tormented in flames for billions upon trillions of years.
Ok, where is this in Scripture? It is not. It is a common assumption however. Note the curious lack of any such time frame in Scripture which causes this. This comes from a poor definition, the human definition, of "eternity."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
The wages of sin is death which will happen in the lake of fire.
You have made another connection here which is common, like the first, but not supported in Scripture. The wages of sin is death. You can still be walking around.
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