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  #31  
Old 05-25-2018, 11:30 AM
TGBTG TGBTG is offline
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Re: Most complex explanation of the Godhead ever!

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Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen View Post
Mike I don't believe in a eternal son. Because the logos is "a plan, thought, or reasoning." And the part of that the angels wouldn't know who created them without Him manifesting theirself to them, I really believe your reaching on that one.

Let me ask you what is Paul trying to say in 1 Corinthians 15:40 "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another." God as well as the Angels are celestial beings. How many times were angels manifested as terrestrial beings? The answer is numerous. As well as the Lord for that's what the text of Genesis 18:1 says"And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day." That's why many can show no distinction between the angel.of the Lord and Christ.

I believe God to be body soul and Spirit in that way we are created in His likeness. I say that because He started revealing this to me, before I heard the oneness of God. And this is what proved it to me. I believe in Isaiah 42:1 it shows all body soul and Spirit, amongst other places. "Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles." But I believe God had a body before hand, but the same way the Angels do, not the flesh of mankind. He didn't have that until the incarnation and the birth, of Jesus in Betheleham. That's why Galatians 4:4 says it the way it does. At that point the Son, began before that there was no son. He then at that point was only the Thought, the reason, the resolution, the plan. Which everything we see as in Colossians 1 says that everything was created with that in mind.

I'm at work I'll get back with you on this one later. I don't believe in modes. I believe God is always all 3 body soul and Spirit He may manifest His body, but He doesn't have to become it, He always, and already is. The only reason for the incarnation was to enter into this economy as Galatians 4:4 says "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law."
??? wow...and people on here condemn trinitarians to hell. This is pretty much mormon theology, but of course the poster is "oneness", so he is heaven bound...

man, strange times...
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  #32  
Old 05-25-2018, 11:59 AM
Apostolic1ness Apostolic1ness is online now
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Re: Most complex explanation of the Godhead ever!

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Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen View Post
Mike I don't believe in a eternal son. Because the logos is "a plan, thought, or reasoning." And the part of that the angels wouldn't know who created them without Him manifesting theirself to them, I really believe your reaching on that one.

Let me ask you what is Paul trying to say in 1 Corinthians 15:40 "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another." God as well as the Angels are celestial beings. How many times were angels manifested as terrestrial beings? The answer is numerous. As well as the Lord for that's what the text of Genesis 18:1 says"And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day." That's why many can show no distinction between the angel.of the Lord and Christ.

I believe God to be body soul and Spirit in that way we are created in His likeness. I say that because He started revealing this to me, before I heard the oneness of God. And this is what proved it to me. I believe in Isaiah 42:1 it shows all body soul and Spirit, amongst other places. "Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles." But I believe God had a body before hand, but the same way the Angels do, not the flesh of mankind. He didn't have that until the incarnation and the birth, of Jesus in Betheleham. That's why Galatians 4:4 says it the way it does. At that point the Son, began before that there was no son. He then at that point was only the Thought, the reason, the resolution, the plan. Which everything we see as in Colossians 1 says that everything was created with that in mind.

I'm at work I'll get back with you on this one later. I don't believe in modes. I believe God is always all 3 body soul and Spirit He may manifest His body, but He doesn't have to become it, He always, and already is. The only reason for the incarnation was to enter into this economy as Galatians 4:4 says "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law."
Portions of your theology listed is heresy and would not be welcomed among oneness believers, such as God having at some point a body the same way the angels do.
Also God may have appeared to Abraham in the "form of a man" but only an appearance and only a form. Absolutely not like Jesus. Jesus was born of a woman 100% flesh born to be our Messiah not just an appearance of a Spirit.
You may want to rethink you theology..
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  #33  
Old 05-25-2018, 02:53 PM
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Re: Most complex explanation of the Godhead ever!

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Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness View Post
Portions of your theology listed is heresy and would not be welcomed among oneness believers, such as God having at some point a body the same way the angels do.
Also God may have appeared to Abraham in the "form of a man" but only an appearance and only a form. Absolutely not like Jesus. Jesus was born of a woman 100% flesh born to be our Messiah not just an appearance of a Spirit.
You may want to rethink you theology..
I'm not big on God having a body, besides for the one that was 100 percent man, and 100 % God Jesus. The one who was as Galatians 4:4 says "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law."

I never said there were person's or tried to break them up. They are one in the same. Jesus wasn't in the Godhead the Godhead was in Jesus.

I never said anything of a gnostic tone, just in appearance of a Spirit? Michael was trying to say the son was pre existant. To that I was giving a answer more than anything.

I wasn't saying God was in a bodily form, only that He could manifest a body form if the Angels can. Because no one has seen God at anytime.
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  #34  
Old 05-25-2018, 03:35 PM
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Re: Most complex explanation of the Godhead ever!

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Originally Posted by TGBTG View Post
??? wow...and people on here condemn trinitarians to hell. This is pretty much mormon theology, but of course the poster is "oneness", so he is heaven bound...

man, strange times...
I explained it bad, now I look at it. Especially the second quote you made bold. I don't believe God always has a body, thats not what I was meaning to be clear, I'll write it out again later.
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  #35  
Old 05-25-2018, 06:10 PM
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Re: Most complex explanation of the Godhead ever!

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Mike I don't believe in a eternal son. Because the logos is "a plan, thought, or reasoning."
Can you point out anywhere I said there was an eternal son?

Do you think this is talking about a thought or a plan creating? Or God creating through a Son?

Heb 1:1-2

1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

When you consider the truth that is being stated in these first two verses perhaps you will see what a huge issue the Logos is.
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  #36  
Old 05-25-2018, 06:22 PM
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Re: Most complex explanation of the Godhead ever!

Q: How did the voice of God walk in the Garden in the cool of the day?

A: The LOGOS.
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  #37  
Old 05-25-2018, 07:19 PM
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Re: Most complex explanation of the Godhead ever!

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Q: How did the voice of God walk in the Garden in the cool of the day?

A: The LOGOS.
Exactly. The thoughts and words YAH wanted to express to creation, he put into his form. It was himself....in visible form.

The Logos was with God.

The visible form was with the invisible, omnipresent spirit.

And the Logos was God. The form was not another distinct person. It, or he was Gods PERSON.

He PERSONALLY walked in the Garden of Eden. Not all of him. His omnipresence was where it always was. Everywhere.

But his personal form, image, or representation would come and go.

This was pleasing to YAH to work it this way. This is what I mean when I use the term "modalism".

In one mode of being he was invisible. In another mode of being he was visible.

No man has seen God at any time. That means his omnipresence. Its impossible to happen.

The only begotten Son in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him. The Logos looked like Jesus. Or we could say Jesus looked like the Logos.

Before the Logos was made flesh he was the EXPRESS IMAGE OF GODS PERSON.

Heb 1:1-3

1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

It is my opinion that when Paul mentions all being made by the Son in verse 2 he then reveals to us in verse 3 who the Son was. The express image or Logos.

Its the same as in Colossians 1:13-16

13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Paul speaks of Gods Son verse 13. Verse 15 he says he is the image of the invisible God the firstborn of all creation. Obviously this is just like Heb 1:1-3

So the first thing God made, created, or formed was an image of himself. A spiritual body he could use and work through. A body by which he would be able to receive worship through. A body by which he could fellowship face to face with angels and men.

IN GODS PLAN....The Logos body was simply known as God himself through Old Testament times. But that very form would one day be manifest as Gods human Son.

This is the great mystery {HIDDEN TRUTH} Paul wrote about.

16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

How was God manifest in the flesh? Did all his omipresence drain down out of the throne to make Jesus in Marys womb?

No. It was simply the Logos, Gods form that became flesh.

John 1:14

And the Logos was made flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth.
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  #38  
Old 05-25-2018, 07:58 PM
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Re: Most complex explanation of the Godhead ever!

So this:

John 1:1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The literal Greek actually ends saying "God was the Word".

Is the same as this:

Phil 2:6-11

5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The form of God, the logos was made man. The omnipresent spirit became the father of the man Christ Jesus. He loved him and cared for him all through his earthly stay. The man Jesus loved and obeyed his father above all else. Therefore God exalted Jesus above every other name and commands that every knee bow to him, for his own glory.

Dont forget as I proceed here. That omnipresent God we are talking about being the Father of Jesus.....that was still Jesus, or we should say YAH.

Jesus told Nicodemus he was still in Heaven at the same time they were talking on the Earth.

John 3:13

And no man has ascended up into Heaven but he who came down from Heaven EVEN THE SON OF MAN WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.

This is where "modalism" really shines. In one mode of being Jesus was on earth. In another mode of being he was in the same place he had always been. Heaven!

So when Paul said every knee would bow to the man Jesus Christ it sounds like this.

Acts 2:36

36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Jesus is our only way of knowing God. He is our mediator. If we know him we know the Father.

1 Tim. 2:5

5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Paul says here there is one God. If Jesus is God this refers to HIM in his deity. Paul says there is one mediator.....the man, Christ Jesus.

It's both him!

In one mode of being he is the one God. In another mode of being he is a man. Nonetheless a man in which God has chosen to fully reveal himself to the objects of his love.

Col. 1:18-19

18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
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  #39  
Old 05-25-2018, 09:34 PM
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1ofthechosen 1ofthechosen is offline
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Re: Most complex explanation of the Godhead ever!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post

Do you think this is talking about a thought or a plan creating? Or God creating through a Son?

Heb 1:1-2

1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

When you consider the truth that is being stated in these first two verses perhaps you will see what a huge issue the Logos is.
Neither one of those. That everything was made that was created with the Logos in mind. He made the world with the Logos as the blueprint, the same as Him telling Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

The text didn't show pre existance of Jeremiah, but forethought. The same as the Logos that's how Jesus can say in John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." But God being the one who worked the beginning from the end, being the God who was, who is, and is to come He exists in all those time periods simultaneously had glorified Him already. Nothing is hidden from His sight.

To go in explaination past that will be impossible; because I may can understand it fully in thought, expressing it fully is impossible in human language.
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Last edited by 1ofthechosen; 05-25-2018 at 09:36 PM.
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  #40  
Old 05-25-2018, 10:01 PM
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Re: Most complex explanation of the Godhead ever!

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Exactly. The thoughts and words YAH wanted to express to creation, he put into his form. It was himself....in visible form.

The Logos was with God.

The visible form was with the invisible, omnipresent spirit.

And the Logos was God. The form was not another distinct person. It, or he was Gods PERSON.

He PERSONALLY walked in the Garden of Eden. Not all of him. His omnipresence was where it always was. Everywhere.

But his personal form, image, or representation would come and go.

This was pleasing to YAH to work it this way. This is what I mean when I use the term "modalism".

In one mode of being he was invisible. In another mode of being he was visible.

No man has seen God at any time. That means his omnipresence. Its impossible to happen.

The only begotten Son in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him. The Logos looked like Jesus. Or we could say Jesus looked like the Logos.

Before the Logos was made flesh he was the EXPRESS IMAGE OF GODS PERSON.

Heb 1:1-3

1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

It is my opinion that when Paul mentions all being made by the Son in verse 2 he then reveals to us in verse 3 who the Son was. The express image or Logos.

Its the same as in Colossians 1:13-16

13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Paul speaks of Gods Son verse 13. Verse 15 he says he is the image of the invisible God the firstborn of all creation. Obviously this is just like Heb 1:1-3

So the first thing God made, created, or formed was an image of himself. A spiritual body he could use and work through. A body by which he would be able to receive worship through. A body by which he could fellowship face to face with angels and men.

IN GODS PLAN....The Logos body was simply known as God himself through Old Testament times. But that very form would one day be manifest as Gods human Son.

This is the great mystery {HIDDEN TRUTH} Paul wrote about.

16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

How was God manifest in the flesh? Did all his omipresence drain down out of the throne to make Jesus in Marys womb?

No. It was simply the Logos, Gods form that became flesh.

John 1:14

And the Logos was made flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth.
I agree with most things you say here Brother Michael. A couple things not as much. Let me ask you, would you say a persons Body, soul, and Spirit would be modes?
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