Oneness And Pre Incarnate Logos

[Michael The Disciple]

This is a thread taken from Facebook by Apostolic Pastor Mark August. He is leading the charge to bring the Oneness movement closer to Biblical Oneness and exposing the origin of the Trinity to Trinitarians.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/3771...8000103889245/

A long read but worthwhile to seekers of truth.

[Scott Pitta]

He mentions early Pentecostal thinkers, but he does not quote them or reference their writing.

It should be interesting.

[Michael The Disciple]

I will post some excerpts from this article.

Introduction:

I am Mark August of A.C.T.S. College, a Oneness Pentecostal think-tank and I am a leader in the minority isle of my movement. What I mean by minority is, my wing affirms a manifested pre-incarnate Logos begotten (manifested) in the beginning, before the creation of the world and "through whom" YHWH made the worlds.

[Michael The Disciple]

Excerpt:

We do not, however, view Logos/Memra as a distinct person than the original Deity source from which Logos is radiated. Rather, we view Logos as the manifested visible image (body) of the invisible One True and Living God and present with YHWH (“face to face with God”) in the beginning and being of the same substance as The Father.

We also do not accept the 3rd Century Origenian theory of an "eternally generated Son", though we do acknowledge that Logos was resident in the mind of YHWH as Wisdom before the beginning in eternity.

[Michael The Disciple]

Excerpt:

Dr. Irvin Baxter Jr. (UPCI) of EndTime Ministries (as seen on TBN and Daystar) is currently our side of the isle’s most well known advocate.

As you may know, the majority of Oneness Pentecostals today teach that Logos was resident in the mind only of YHWH until being begotten at the incarnation.

The most well known proponent of this theory, which I term "mind word only" theory, is Dr. David K. Bernard (UPCI).

This error is largely sourced, from a doctrinal overreach by Marcellus of Ancyra (Monarchian Bishop) against Arius in the 4th century and was quickly rejected.

[Michael The Disciple]

Excerpt:

JESUS made the throne, built to be sat in. Wouldn't HE have made a Body to utilize it?

For by HIM were ALL THINGS created, that are in HEAVEN, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be THRONES [ !!! ] or dominions, or principalities, or POWERS: all things were created BY HIM, and FOR HIM:
-Colossians 1:16

The Logos was:

"The Amen,...... The beginning of the creation of God;"
-Revelation 3:14

“The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old; I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.”
-Proverbs 8:22-23

[TakingDominion]

Interesting stuff. I didn't know there were any Oneness people that believe this way. It would seem at first glance confusing to think of the Logos as present with Gof from the beginning. Seems like that would be a 2 person Godhead.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by TakingDominion

Interesting stuff. I didn't know there were any Oneness people that believe this way. It would seem at first glance confusing to think of the Logos as present with Gof from the beginning. Seems like that would be a 2 person Godhead.

The Logos was with God as his PERSON...AL image, not another PERSON. The visible with the invisible.

[TakingDominion]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The Logos was with God as his PERSON...AL image, not another PERSON. The visible with the invisible.

So, are you saying that you believe God was VISIBLE in the beginning?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by TakingDominion

So, are you saying that you believe God was VISIBLE in the beginning?

Thats the whole issue IMO.

Modern Oneness teacher Jason Dulle wrote:

http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/trinoneness.htm

This form was at least visible to the heavenly host, for they presented themselves before God in some manner (I Kings 22:19; Job 1:6). Since God is omnipresent, there could not be any specific location at which to gather, unless, that is, God appeared in some type of visible, albeit spirit form. So the logos was the visible expression of God’s invisible essence. "The Word was not merely an impersonal thought existing in the mind of God but was, in reality, the Eternal Spirit Himself clothed upon by a visible and personal form..."28

This is Bible truth!

Nonetheless in a discussion I had with Jason on the forum he would not fully commit to this position tho he had written these very words himself. Perhaps he feared consequences from UPCI circles.