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  #481  
Old 10-10-2012, 09:47 PM
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BeenThinkin BeenThinkin is offline
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Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

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Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord View Post
Been Thinking - I LOVE your questions!! Keep THINKING!!!

My thoughts: The law and the prophets were until John ... remember Luke 16:16 ? The law and the prophets were the only way the Israelites could hear from God BEFORE John.

Now, the Spirit speaketh expressly unto the church ... how? To each one of us directly.

Concerning the gifts of spirit spoken of in 1 Cor. ... first of all... to accept a prophecy from someone operating under a gift of the spirit, you need to also be in a place to hear the Spirit speaking to you first, and then a spirit of prophecy will often come as a witness to something the spirit has already been speaking to your heart.

Now in light of the question BT posed... why haven't the five-fold ministry been in operation of discernment of such things as we are discussing?

Well, my thought is this... one MAY have come and spoken words, perhaps over the pulpit, but more likely in a conversation, an email, a passing word, or whatever.... how do we know? It doesn't necessarily have to be over a pulpit for the whole world to record it. Yet, there is NO doubt in my mind that if the minister in question had any kind of a relationship with Christ, and moved in gifts of the spirit, that he KNEW and had heard from the Spirit that his actions were wrong. Yet, he chose to ignore those warning signs, and continue on the same path he was on.

How many of us could say the same? Have we not also heard the "warning" voice of the spirit in our hearts when we were about to do something we knew we shouldn't do... and yet we ignored it and carried on with our sin?

This my friend, is dangerous. Far too many of us today ignore the warning voice that the spirit of Christ living within us is trying to speak, but we drown it out with our busyness of life.

No, the five fold ministry, and the giftings of the spirit are still mightily in operation. But are we listening... that is the question!

How can we ever "HEAR" the voice of the spirit speaking to us, if we are never silent before the Lord, and allow his voice to be heard in our hearts?

I have learned a great lesson the last few years when praying... that I need to do less talking, and more listening. It is a conversation, a communion, and a fellowship, not a one-way line. God wants to talk to me, as much as I want to talk to him. Yet, unless we take the time to stop talking, and listen to the voice of the spirit speaking to us.... any one of us could end up on the pathway to destruction, much the same as the minister in question here on this thread. We are all sinners, and are all capable of great and terrible sin. It is what we do about our sinful nature that changes the outcome of our lives.

BT - I think that the Spirit of Christ is still speaking today... through the five-fold ministry, through the gifts of the spirit, and to each individual's heart.... but it is that still small voice that is ignored, and drowned out that has hurt our spiritual growth the most.


Great thoughts. Much to "think about." I guess what I'm thinking about is there a case, (this present day), that anyone knows about, where the Prophet walked up to the Pastor and said, "David thou art the man!" "Pastor, thou art the man! There is sin in your life!"

2 Samuel 12:1 ¶ And the LORD sent Nathan unto David. And he came unto him, and said unto him, There were two men in one city; the one rich, and the other poor.
2 The rich man had exceeding many flocks and herds:
3 But the poor man had nothing, save one little ewe lamb, which he had bought and nourished up: and it grew up together with him, and with his children; it did eat of his own meat, and drank of his own cup, and lay in his bosom, and was unto him as a daughter.
4 And there came a traveller unto the rich man, and he spared to take of his own flock and of his own herd, to dress for the wayfaring man that was come unto him; but took the poor man’s lamb, and dressed it for the man that was come to him.
5 And David’s anger was greatly kindled against the man; and he said to Nathan, As the LORD liveth, the man that hath done this thing shall surely die:
6 And he shall restore the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing, and because he had no pity.
7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man...................

Does this happen in our generation and if it has, when and where? Or, are all of the cases we hear about, ones where they just kept it up until they got caught?

Been Thinkin
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  #482  
Old 10-10-2012, 10:39 PM
Tlswift2009 Tlswift2009 is offline
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Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
I agree many never received proper training

I will also say I don't believe everyone was called or qualified to be Pastor either
You are certainly CORRECT!!! Many people take to pastoring as a financial career {lucre} , and for the**supposed**prestege**of the office.
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  #483  
Old 10-10-2012, 10:41 PM
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Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

Speaking in general of the situation of preachers falling into sexual sin I would have a lot more confidence when they repent and go through restoration if they had willingly come forward and confessed the sin themselves and repented.

I can't think of a single instance of that. What I have observed is preachers becoming repentant AFTER they have been caught and exposed. Then when the vast majority of them take stock of their situation and realize they have no skills for earning money outside of ministry they suddenly become remorseful and repentant and look for the fastest route back to full time paying ministry.
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"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

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  #484  
Old 10-10-2012, 10:43 PM
houston houston is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1 View Post
Speaking in general of the situation of preachers falling into sexual sin I would have a lot more confidence when they repent and go through restoration if they had willingly come forward and confessed the sin themselves and repented.

I can't think of a single instance of that. What I have observed is preachers becoming repentant AFTER they have been caught and exposed. Then when the vast majority of them take stock of their situation and realize they have no skills for earning money outside of ministry they suddenly become remorseful and repentant and look for the fastest route back to full time paying ministry.
I know of one instance.
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  #485  
Old 10-10-2012, 10:44 PM
Tlswift2009 Tlswift2009 is offline
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Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

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Originally Posted by Cindy View Post
It's easier to criticize and gossip than it is discern anything. Would we even recognize a prophet if one showed up? Even after John the Baptist told about Jesus, when he showed up, the "religious" people didn't recognize him. But, the sinners seemed to.
Good point!!!
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  #486  
Old 10-11-2012, 12:00 AM
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Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

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Originally Posted by BeenThinkin View Post
Great thoughts. Much to "think about." I guess what I'm thinking about is there a case, (this present day), that anyone knows about, where the Prophet walked up to the Pastor and said, "David thou art the man!" "Pastor, thou art the man! There is sin in your life!"

2 Samuel 12:1 ¶ And the LORD sent Nathan unto David. And he came unto him, and said unto him, There were two men in one city; the one rich, and the other poor.
2 The rich man had exceeding many flocks and herds:
3 But the poor man had nothing, save one little ewe lamb, which he had bought and nourished up: and it grew up together with him, and with his children; it did eat of his own meat, and drank of his own cup, and lay in his bosom, and was unto him as a daughter.
4 And there came a traveller unto the rich man, and he spared to take of his own flock and of his own herd, to dress for the wayfaring man that was come unto him; but took the poor man’s lamb, and dressed it for the man that was come to him.
5 And David’s anger was greatly kindled against the man; and he said to Nathan, As the LORD liveth, the man that hath done this thing shall surely die:
6 And he shall restore the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing, and because he had no pity.
7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man...................

Does this happen in our generation and if it has, when and where? Or, are all of the cases we hear about, ones where they just kept it up until they got caught?

Been Thinkin
Like CC1 said, most of them become repentant AFTER they have been exposed. You wonder if they're sorry for the sin, or sorry they've been caught!

True repentance comes about with a heart change. I would say each case is one that must be treated prayerfully and with the leading of the spirit, if one is to be considered restored to the ministry.

About the question of why haven't these men been pointed out publicly for their sins as in the case of King David, or even more recently Ananias and Sapphira... I don't know that is necessary for public prophecy or discernment.

I truly believe that TB or any other caught in such an immoral sin... that God was merciful enough to speak to them in many various, and sundry ways to try and get their attention about their wrongdoing... perhaps even through their own preaching!

Yet, when repentance, and heart change did not take place in the heart, then the course left was the one that we see taking place now.

Again... I am not pointing fingers at this particular situation... because we are all capable of sin, and he who is without sin should cast the stone first...

...yet even with forgiveness of sin, there are still consequences to the sin that are very hard to bear. The consequence of telling a white lie, as opposed to adultery are quite different, even though we know that sin is sin, and should be repented of and turned away from.

Myself included, the objective lesson here is to learn to be careful never to become self righteous in our judgments of this man or any other such case, but to take it as a lesson for all of us to consider...

.... that God does speak to us through His Spirit in many ways, and if we are not listening, our sins WILL find us out, if we do not find a place of true repentance.

I would rather my sins be repented of, and under the blood here and now, than for them to follow me at judgment day.

I want to be listening to the still small voice speaking, either through the ministry, through a friend, through an email, through a post on AFF... or wherever it may come! ... convicting me of any sin or wrong in my life now, instead of waiting until it is too late to repent!

I maintain that TB should be very thankful for a chance to repent, and make amends with his life now... rather than sliding on through life never repenting, and then facing God with it someday in judgment.
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  #487  
Old 10-11-2012, 06:12 AM
HolyFire HolyFire is offline
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Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Your mantra never changes (no pun intended) you point at Ultra Cons and their standards like it causes them to commit debauchery? I then posted a Guru who was caught, and now has a problem with his group. Therefore this has nothing to do with ultra conservative, it has everything to do with positional power of men and women.

Hence, Lord Acton's statement, "power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" no checks and balances can lead to problems.

Do you at least agree to that?
So THAT was Ted Haggard, Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Baker's problem. They were ultra-cons.
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  #488  
Old 10-11-2012, 08:22 AM
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Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

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Originally Posted by CC1 View Post
Speaking in general of the situation of preachers falling into sexual sin I would have a lot more confidence when they repent and go through restoration if they had willingly come forward and confessed the sin themselves and repented.

I can't think of a single instance of that. What I have observed is preachers becoming repentant AFTER they have been caught and exposed. Then when the vast majority of them take stock of their situation and realize they have no skills for earning money outside of ministry they suddenly become remorseful and repentant and look for the fastest route back to full time paying ministry.
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  #489  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:12 AM
Theresa Theresa is offline
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Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

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Originally Posted by BeenThinkin View Post
SOOOO! Theresa, feel good about yourself and your posts. You weren't the problem with AFF 2 years ago. Your leaving didn't help a bit. So, jump back in. You may be a good influence on some of the "bad posters!" Who are they? Don't know for sure. Just "been thinkin'" about it!

Been Thinkin
actually I havent been here for 2 years because I had twins....and at the time of their birth, I had an 18month old..

I been a lil busy LOL
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  #490  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:14 AM
Theresa Theresa is offline
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Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

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Originally Posted by BeenThinkin View Post
It's sad when anyone falls and fails God. We have discussed, it seems, everyone that has given us even a chance to question their theology, their standards, their church, their organization, their failures, etc. etc.

One big topic has been HMH, "Holy Magic Hair" and all the supposed spiritual advantages it is supposed to give to an individual, family, church and organization.

Now I have a question. And before I ask it I want to make a statement. "I believe in the five-fold ministry, I think!"

The subject of this thread concerns a minister, who I guess failed. Don't know for sure what the allegations are and it doesn't really matter. It seems someone "caught him!"

Now here is the question. Does anyone know of a "modern day prophet" who walked into a church and without anyone telling him anything, suddenly exposed blatant sin in the Pastor? It just seems to me like it never comes that way. WHY?

What I'm trying to say is it would seem that with all the long hair, and the "prophets" that believe in that long hair that the prophetic would kick in and men would be exposed by the spirit. Again, do you know of any of these cases that have been so discussed here on AFF that were revealed in this manner?

And, please, I don't say any of this just to be tacky. Just trying to understand why the "five fold ministry" is not working better to uncover sin.


Just "Been Thinkin"
My thought is that there arent any GOD CALLED *modern day prophets*

yanno?
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