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  #61  
Old 03-13-2013, 09:27 AM
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Michael Phelps Michael Phelps is offline
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Re: UPC Resolution to Remove TV from Manual

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Originally Posted by Jay View Post
I believe that the answer to the first question is a solid...yes.

For the second, I was using the word unnecessary in light of the fact that the majority of employers do not approve of their employees visiting websites that are not work related. If you truly flelt that strongly about the internet, you would feel that this website is a rather unproductive manner of spending your time.
So, let's go back and compare TV to the internet:

1. You say there are good websites and bad websites. Well, there are good channels and bad channels on TV. You have to control what you watch.

2. You say TV and movies are a waste of time and money. Well, the time you spend on the internet could also be keeping you from "doing the work of the Lord". And, I don't know about you, but the monthly charge for internet access is fairly pricey.

3. You say there is a flaw in my argument as it pertains to TV vs. Internet. I'm not sure what it is..........
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  #62  
Old 03-13-2013, 09:27 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: UPC Resolution to Remove TV from Manual

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Originally Posted by LUKE2447 View Post
what you just said is pathetic.
Let me try to clarify and provide some balance. Rather it's for good or not... ANY organization's purpose is to further an established agenda, keep control to advance that agenda, and to generate the necessary revenues to advance that agenda. In my mind... it's a fact of life. Let's face it and not be so altruistic.

What I find interesting is that I've yet to read anything where anyone elaborated on the biggest point of my statement...
The UPCI (or any other organization) isn't the Kingdom of God...
The Kingdom of God was in full advancement and glory before any organization founded within the past 150 years or more... and will still be in full advancement after these organizations dissolve and retreat to the pages of history.
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  #63  
Old 03-13-2013, 09:28 AM
PreacherME PreacherME is offline
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Re: UPC Resolution to Remove TV from Manual

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Originally Posted by Evenuntodeath View Post
The book of Enoch, are you serious? You do know the book of enoch is: a) used in witchcraft and b) not even in the bible?
No, I didn't know it was used for witchcraft. But I do know it was canonized at one time until someone thought it was ridiculous to have sex with angels (as Genesis states). The Ethiopian Coptic church still has Enoch canonized. Just a thought.
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  #64  
Old 03-13-2013, 09:30 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: UPC Resolution to Remove TV from Manual

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Originally Posted by Evenuntodeath View Post
The book of Enoch, are you serious? You do know the book of enoch is: a) used in witchcraft and b) not even in the bible?
It's actually included in ancient Bibles such as the bible used by Ethiopian orthodoxy. Many scholars also point to several places in the NT where the book of Enoch is quoted. Some believe that it's inspired, others don't.

Witches also use the Bible, crosses, and even some Christian hymns and liturgies.

We shouldn't rush to judgment before truly investigating something.
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  #65  
Old 03-13-2013, 09:30 AM
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KeptByTheWord KeptByTheWord is offline
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Re: UPC Resolution to Remove TV from Manual

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Originally Posted by Jay View Post
I agree.


As to the issue of the initial limitations of preaching against tech instead of principles, many principles were addressed when these messages were preached. I know this because I heard them referenced numerous times. Television and movies are wastes of time and money. They are a distraction from doing the work of God. They are filled with immodesty, violence, sexual immorality, and all forms of ungodliness. Those are the principles that I often heard preached, and I still believe them.

What changed? Not the principles of the Bible!

The only thing that has changed are the hearts of the men who lead. The manual itself made clear that the violaton of Christian principles was the key motivator that caused them to stand against television.

Many preachers have ceased to address the television itself, and instead preach against all forms of Hollywood style entertainment. For this reason, it becomes obvious what the true motives behind any changes actually are.
Jay, I know you are sincere, and I understand where you are coming from. We have a TV in our home, but it is used solely for the purpose of watching movies that have a generic rating. We don't have a channeled TV mainly because even though you can watch "good" shows on TV, you are also forced to watch the commercials which are usually promoting a product with s*xual overtones. I don't want that garbage in my home.

Yet, now it is almost impossible to live in this electronic, information age that we live in and not have the Internet. We have to use the Internet for our businesses. I would prefer not to have those things, but they are necessary.

When you spend time in the presence of the Lord, your heart cannot but help to be convicted of things that go against the very principles of the Word of God. There are many, many things that we don't do and don't allow in our home, and we don't have a preacher screaming at us telling us to shut the TV or Internet off. We have done it because the SPIRIT of Jesus has convicted our hearts against these things.

That being said, if the UPC/OP churches were to go back to teaching on the powerful work of the Holy Ghost in a believer's life, and teach them to listen to the convictions that the Spirit brings into their hearts... they wouldn't have to preach against TV or the internet or whatever ... because the spirit would be doing the convicting work in their lives.

That was my point, Jay. A point that these OP/UPC churches have completely ignored, in my opinion. More emphasis has been placed on defining and legalizing these principles, instead of just teaching believers to allow the spirit to convict and challenge their hearts.

Would you say that a preacher preaching against sin has more convicting power than the conviction of the Holy Ghost in a personal prayer meeting, in a prayer closet alone with God?

If that preacher were to emphasize and teach people to seek after and know the mind of the spirit... don't you think that the work of the Holy Ghost is much more powerful than the work of a man defining boundaries in a believer's life?

Last edited by KeptByTheWord; 03-13-2013 at 09:32 AM.
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  #66  
Old 03-13-2013, 09:36 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: UPC Resolution to Remove TV from Manual

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Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord View Post
The problem with the OP churches is that they have set standards based on current cultural events (starting back in the 1950s-1960s) ... instead of biblical principles.

IF they had taught and stood on biblical principles, which live forever, instead of trying to fine tune those biblical principles and turn them into man-made traditions (think Pharisees), they wouldn't have the problem they have today.

I believe with all my heart, more now than ever before, that personal holiness unto the Lord is absolutely necessary. But HOW that personal holiness is applied in my life can be much different than how it is applied in someone else's life. I am not to judge others for their convictions, nor judge others based on my OWN convictions... I am to produce the fruit of the spirit as the Holy Ghost works on me from the inside out.

When ANYONE... any person, preacher, or organization... begins to demand of others a set of holiness traditions based on their own convictions, they effectively take away the work of the Holy Ghost out of a person's life, and transfer that authority to a man.

That is Pharisaical - a condition Jesus spoke out against constantly.

However, when you begin to teach personal holiness as unto the Lord, teaching fruit of the spirit ... love, joy, peace... those kinds of things... and when you teach and then begin to allow the Holy Spirit to do its job in a believer's life... if they desire to truly allow Jesus to change their hearts, they WILL produce fruits of the spirit, and they WILL have personal holiness standards that will be evident for all to see.

When you start to put the cart ahead of the horse... as these OP organizations have done... and demand all these certain and varied standards that are a preacher or an organizational favorite... then you begin to limit the work of the Holy Spirit in the believer's life...

Since our family has stepped away from the traditional OP churches... our personal holiness standard has undergone deep inspection from the Holy Spirit. Now, we have personal holiness standards in our home that the Holy Ghost... the Spirit of Jesus living in us... and teaching us, and now... I want nothing in my life that would be in any way displeasing to the Lord!

I believe with all my heart that if biblical PRINCIPLES of personal holiness were taught, instead of man-made standards and laws... there would be a huge wave of revival with people throwing out their TVs (like Dord) and giving up things they never would've considered giving up before... because the work of the SPIRIT is more powerful than any law that man can come up with.
Excellent post.

I think we loose our focus sometimes.

We talk about "holiness" a lot. What is the definition of Christian "holiness"??? Most of the time it's defined by behaviors. I'm inclined to think otherwise. It's simply being more and more like Jesus and obeying His commandments. And Christ's commandments are very simple...
1.) Love God with all that you are.
2.) And demonstrate that love for God by loving others as yourself.
The rest is just circumstantial commentary.
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  #67  
Old 03-13-2013, 09:39 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: UPC Resolution to Remove TV from Manual

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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
Sad day.
Only if one's joy was dependent upon the shifting sands of this world's man made systems.

The Kingdom of God hasn't changed a bit. C'mon in.
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  #68  
Old 03-13-2013, 09:41 AM
AreYouReady? AreYouReady? is offline
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Re: UPC Resolution to Remove TV from Manual

Why is it a sad day Elder?

It is not forbidden to me by any man to watch television....and yet I do not watch it.
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  #69  
Old 03-13-2013, 09:43 AM
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KeptByTheWord KeptByTheWord is offline
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Re: UPC Resolution to Remove TV from Manual

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Originally Posted by AreYouReady? View Post
Why is it a sad day Elder?

It is not forbidden to me by any man to watch television....and yet I do not watch it.
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  #70  
Old 03-13-2013, 09:45 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: UPC Resolution to Remove TV from Manual

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Originally Posted by Jay View Post
If you were to say that all websites met your statements, then I would consider your argument. However, as the argument is more generic, it is rather unhelpful. Further, if that is your view of the internet, why are you violating your concience by surfing it and visiting unnecessary websites such as this. That is the consistent flaw with those who argue that the internet is worse than television, the are never actually interested in abstaining from either.
I find it interesting that the internet is involved in more divorces than... television.

On the internet one can find XXX or extremely violent material freely at any time of the day or night with just the click of a mouse. Not so with network programming. Typically things of a "mature nature" are only on television after 10PM. Anything rated "R" can be found on "paid movie stations" after something like 8PM. You can't find XXX rated programing in most television programming... one can only watch these things strictly pay per view. That requires a code and affirmation of purchase.

If you don't think television is better than the internet some people could race to find XXX material. One person on the internet... the other on a television. I know where I'd put my money. lol
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