The Crux of the Pro-tithe Argument

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I think you have misunderstood who has the hang up. Who is teaching giving tithes?

Do you teach tithing?

Are YOU hung up on this doctrine?

Not at all, either way. I tithe simply because it's a pattern of giving and is not heaven or hell, anyway. And God has blatantly blessed me for it. But it's not heaven or hell.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Not at all, either way. I tithe simply because it's a pattern of giving and is not heaven or hell, anyway. And God has blatantly blessed me for it. But it's not heaven or hell.

Interesting, in your theory you are doing something God did away with and he is blessing you for it.... seems he would bless the ones not doing it if he did away with it...

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

Interesting, in your theory you are doing something God did away with and he is blessing you for it.... seems he would bless the ones not doing it if he did away with it...

It is not a law like it was. To me, it's simply doing something in faith to give to God. And He outrightly blessed me for it! Someone who joined our church started giving tithes, and was amazed at how immediately God blessed it. It's not a law to us, though. It's just ONE WAY to give to God!

The LAW of it ended. We're no longer cursed if we do not give tithes, because Jesus is the one who took all the curses on us and we're free of a curse because of the cross. Saying that tithes frees us from a curse is replacing the cross with tithes. One extreme.

But another extreme is saying we cannot give tithes of our income in faith and see God bless us. HE DOES AND HE DID TO ME!

That shows the problem with the tithe debate that goes on here. Two extremes and both are wrong.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It is not a law like it was. To me, it's simply doing something in faith to give to God. And He outrightly blessed me for it! Someone who joined our church started giving tithes, and was amazed at how immediately God blessed it. It's not a law to us, though. It's just ONE WAY to give to God!

The LAW of it ended. We're no longer cursed if we do not give tithes, because Jesus is the one who took all the curses on us and we're free of a curse because of the cross. Saying that tithes frees us from a curse is replacing the cross with tithes. One extreme.

But another extreme is saying we cannot give tithes of our income in faith and see God bless us. HE DOES AND HE DID TO ME!

That shows the problem with the tithe debate that goes on here. Two extremes and both are wrong.

So . . .
By using your example, would a person be blessed for keeping the sabbath, even though it is no longer required?

Also, it is not extreme to teach exactly what the Bible does on a given subject.

The crux of the matter . . .

Do you receive tithes, in any form? Or do you advocate giving it to the widows, orphans, singers, etc., like the extremely extreme Bible taught that it was for.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Interestingly, the main crux of the pro-tithers' position is the fact that the practice is "MENTIONED" prior to the Law. Naturally, many will point out that animal sacrifices and circumcision were also mentioned before the Law. Thus, it would seem that, in order to be consistent, the pro-tithers would consider those practices to also be binding on the New Testament church. Ah, but they have cleverly (well, at least in their own eyes) found a way around that seeming contradictory obstacle. They simply attach tithing to the "moral code" that pre-existed before Law. If tithing is part of the moral code that pre-existed before the Law, then it certainly outlasts the abolishment of the Law. Certainly, we would not claim that the abolishment of the old covenant constitutes an abolishing of God's command to live holy and not commit murder, steal, lie, cheat, commit adultery, etc. So, to the pro-tither, saying that tithing was abolished is like saying God's laws against the sins listed above are also abolished.

Pretty clever, huh? I mean, if tithing did pre-date the Law as one of the moral imperatives that were incorporated into the Law, then the practice would be binding on the whole human race for all time. But there is just one tiny little problem with this theory. While nobody disputes the fact that tithing was practised in some areas and to some degree before the Law, the pro-tithers simply have not produced data that validates their claim that the tithe pre-existed as a moral imperative, or as part of God's eternal moral code. So, I invite them to do so now. Please make your case that tithing is a moral imperative, or part of the moral code that pre-dated the Law. Before the flood, and before the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, God made his moral imperatives clear. Where do we find God, prior to the Law, making tithing a moral imperative? This narrows the focus of the debate and prevents us all from chasing rabbits.

Why wasn't religious tithing exclusively to Hebrew/Israelites? The whole predating the law shows pagans tithing. Something they always did, most ancient religions tithed to their priestcraft. Circumcision was practiced by the Egyptians, Ethiopians, Phoenicians, and Syrians. Was a right of passage for all males. There was a time when Christians were adamant against circumcision. Not anymore, but funny how you have many passages of scripture telling the Christain not to circumcise their children going mostly unheeded but tithing? Whoo hoo, that's the candy stick!

[consapente89]

Abraham was following a pagan ritual when he tithed to Melchizedek? God borrowed circumcision from pagans? Can’t see anywhere in the NT where
circumcision is prohibited. Rather, it seems all spiritual significance is removed.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Why wasn't religious tithing exclusively to Hebrew/Israelites? The whole predating the law shows pagans tithing. Something they always did, most ancient religions tithed to their priestcraft. Circumcision was practiced by the Egyptians, Ethiopians, Phoenicians, and Syrians. Was a right of passage for all males. There was a time when Christians were adamant against circumcision. Not anymore, but funny how you have many passages of scripture telling the Christain not to circumcise their children going mostly unheeded but tithing? Whoo hoo, that's the candy stick!

I am not questioning that tithing was practised prior to the Law. My original post is self-explanatory. Two pages worth of posts and not one person as even attempted to answer the question I posed. I find that to be rude.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I am not questioning that tithing was practised prior to the Law. My original post is self-explanatory. Two pages worth of posts and not one person as even attempted to answer the question I posed. I find that to be rude.

I'm not trying to be rude, but what I'm asking is why was tithing a well maintained practice is the ancient world. Even prior to Abraham?

[coksiw]

The Abraham tithing was once. No record of systematic tithing, in fact, no record of Isaac doing it. Even Jacob made a covenant of tithing with the Lord, like if he didn't practice it and he wanted to establish it.
Abraham tithing was voluntary. The modern tithing is compulsory, under the threat of disobedience and cursing, which is the Law.

Even the tithing you find before the Law, is not the tithing they teach you at church. The tithing at church is from the Law, and even that is applied incorrectly.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by consapente89

Abraham was following a pagan ritual when he tithed to Melchizedek? God borrowed circumcision from pagans? Can’t see anywhere in the NT where
circumcision is prohibited. Rather, it seems all spiritual significance is removed.

Abraham was following a practice which a huge portion of ancient societies followed. That was tithing the spoils of war. The tithes were made to the priestcraft of many religions, plus to the king, or leaders. New Testament is against the practice of circumcision. No longer was it of the flesh to make you a physical Judean/Israelite. But spiritual to bring you into the Israel of God, the domestic olive tree.