Should we teach others to rebel against standards?

[1ofthechosen]

Sorry posted this in the wrong spot too. Although I already had some dialogue with Michael on it!

Deuteronomy 27:17 "Cursed be he that removeth his neighbour's landmark. And all the people shall say, Amen."

[Michael The Disciple]

From that conversation 1of thechosen

During the Hippy Generation of the 50’s and 60’s, beards sprouted on those who rebelled against society. It became their symbol. Many of that culture were draft dodgers and some even moved to Canada. A spirit of rebellion and non-conformity was connected to the beard wearing. New male converts for years have shown visible evidence of their conversion, by shaving off their facial hair when they got into an Apostolic church.

To which I replied,

This is the ridicuous tradition that brought in Preachers war against beards. So the hippies were sinners and wore beards? First off many hippies did not wear beards. Secondly we could ask did other men BESIDES hippies wear a beard in the 60's and 70's?

And yet here is the most HYPOCRITICAL thing about the whole mess. The shave only Preachers say they are keeping people from the world by preaching against beards. They say they have a rebellious spirit (I suppose this means demonic) if they want to wear a beard!

But what about the Preachers nice suits? In our society there are VERY WICKED MEN who are out there wearing suits! Think about it.

Corrupt politicians.
Wall Street kings of greed.
CIA agents who overthrow governments and assasinate people.
Hollywood actors known for fornication and worldliness.

These all have something in common. They all wear suits!

And YET.....the shave only Preachers not only never target these suit wearing sinners but actually follow right along with the stylishness and worldliness! How can we take this line of reasoning about beards seriously from Preachers who wear the same suits as the most worldly of all society wears?

But O yes they are worried about the WORLD sneaking into the Church.

But oh yes dont forget to preach about those evil beards. Someone might be tempted to think the Bible is ok with them!

And in these so called Apostolic Churches it is actually considered evidence of being saved when one SHAVES!

Well judging by the same standard that the beards were worn by some hippies therefore beards are wicked can we not make it a sign of TRUE CONVERSION if a Preacher or Church members takes off their suits?

I mean we "Apostolics" would not want the air of worldliness among us right? And what is more worldly than Hollywood? Wall Street? CIA? Corrupt politicians?

So I guess they really are not very serious about THE WORLD COMING INTO THE CHURCH!

Nope. As long as they can get by with preaching that men who wear beards have a SPIRIT OF REBELLION....they have done their duty.

[1ofthechosen]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple
Corrupt politicians.
Wall Street kings of greed.
CIA agents who overthrow governments and assasinate people.
Hollywood actors known for fornication and worldliness.

These all have something in common. They all wear suits!



Michael, this is a severely dramatic statement. Funny but dramatic. I believe people should be modest In apparel. There is cheap suits you know? I don't own a suit, I just wear button down and slacks. You missed the whole purpose of the quote of Martyn Ballestero. I quoted it for the part where he said: "However, in early Pentecost, especially in the white churches, there was a marked absence of beards. The beards seemed to disappear." And the other part where he said: "The Pentecostal scene was one of clean-shaven men for over 50 years."

That's what I've been saying, if it's been like that for 50 years who am I to come in, and tell them to change for me? What they are saying isn't immoral, their not telling you to sacrifice your children!!! I understand you feel that people are saying you have a demon because you have facial hair. Or that your rebellious because of it. I don't believe someone is rebellious for having it. But, I do believe if you go to a church that preaches against it, and you are going around to other people trying to get them to rebel against it that is rebellious. There's a root in a lot of this, that's the spirit of Absalom at work. If you can't take it, go to a church where it is accepted to have a facial hair. We all need to have a man of God though, because without that, who's going to call you out on your stuff?
__________________

[FlamingZword]

They are incorrectly using Deuteronomy 27:17, it has zero connection to standards.
talk about twisting scriptures to make them mean whatever someone wants them to mean.

Scriptures must be properly expound in their context.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

They are incorrectly using Deuteronomy 27:17, it has zero connection to standards.
talk about twisting scriptures to make them mean whatever someone wants them to mean.

Scriptures must be properly expound in their context.

He is only using a principal from the scripture, not trying to say that this is what it means. Somehow the facial hair thing is all that was talked about. I just titled it that way.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

He is only using a principal from the scripture, not trying to say that this is what it means.

But he is preaching the principle to not change what another man put in place. A no no to do. So if Jesus put beards into place by designing them into a man and then showing them as favorable to himself are the shave only Preachers NOT moving his landmark?

Should we move his landmark because a certain per cent of hippies in the 60's and 70's wore beards? What about the thousands of years before hippies came along? So because in the hippie time which lasted maybe TEN YEARS there were sinners wearing beards does that negate all the good men of thousands of years past who wore beards? Was Jesus wrong by designing the beard because for 10 years hippies wore them?

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

But he is preaching the principle to not change what another man put in place. A no no to do. So if Jesus put beards into place by designing them into a man and then showing them as favorable to himself are the shave only Preachers NOT moving his landmark?

Should we move his landmark because a certain per cent of hippies in the 60's and 70's wore beards? What about the thousands of years before hippies came along? So because in the hippie time which lasted maybe TEN YEARS there were sinners wearing beards does that negate all the good men of thousands of years past who wore beards? Was Jesus wrong by designing the beard because for 10 years hippies wore them?

First off, are you Jew or Gentile? I believe your Gentile, so with that being said let's go to Acts 15:1-31. So to highlight the parts we are talking about go to verse 5-6: "But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. [6] And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter." Some call this council of Jerusalem.

What was the outcome? Go with me to verse 23-24: "And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: [24] Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment."
There you have it, we the Gentiles do not have to follow the law. Unless it's something God expressly says He hates, or it's and abomination, that never changes! For God never changes.

"The apostles and elders and brethren" Paul and Barnabas, Judas and Silas removed this land mark! By the Holy Ghost who is the Spirit of Jesus. That's why in Acts 15:32 it says "Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them." They confirmed what was being said, they were prophets the end of the law for the Gentile came from the mind of God. So, you can try to make a doctrine out of the law about facial hair, but once you do you have to follow the rest too! Period!

[BuckeyeBukaroo]

No, we should not teach others to rebel against standards.
Why on earth would anyone consider this?
Standards don't save, but they are practical means to help keep you saved.
Why would any Holy Spirit filled person think of TEACHING others to rebel?
Talk about double trouble!

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBukaroo

No, we should not teach others to rebel against standards.
Why on earth would anyone consider this?
Standards don't save, but they are practical means to help keep you saved.
Why would any Holy Spirit filled person think of TEACHING others to rebel?
Talk about double trouble!

I just noticed it's a popular thing going on around the forum. Standards don't save you, but they are a safety net. I just titled it that way, because I knew it would cause people to look at it. I've found the importance of the man of God in my life.

[Amanah]

Our first priority is the souls of men and women, so I would be wary of causing someone to lose out on their salvation because they are offended. Have them rebel against their church leadership and lose their soul?

Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.