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  #71  
Old 01-26-2018, 07:04 AM
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Re: Can a plant be a "spirit"?

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
But something in me becomes indignant when I'm told that I can't make such choices for myself. Especially if it involves my liberties and something that is relatively harmless.
Aquila, I guess the plant isn't the only one with a spirit?
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  #72  
Old 01-26-2018, 07:45 AM
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Re: Can a plant be a "spirit"?

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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
Really? And you are the one who named your "personal angel" Joe or something.
Good God from Zion! Aquila, don't ever fault me for taking you to task. Never, ever, because if you believe this stuff seriously, you need help. If you don't and are just saying these things to shock, then you are in trouble more than you know.



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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
I have no idea what my guardian angel's name is. I've called him Sam, Dude, Jake, Jay, Jeremiel, etc. in jest. Lol

Personally, I think we'd both prefer a different assignment.
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  #73  
Old 01-26-2018, 07:47 AM
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Re: Can a plant be a "spirit"?

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Anyway, carry on - go outside and listen to your grass breathing... lol
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  #74  
Old 01-26-2018, 08:28 AM
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Re: Can a plant be a "spirit"?

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Eat poison ivy and sumac? No way that could be possible.

I would shudder to think someone making a sammich out of poison oak.
Actually, native Indians were known to nibble on poison ivy, as were other naturists/herbalists. Supposedly develops a "tolerance" or immunity. Some people still do it today.

Lots of crazy stuff in this world.
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  #75  
Old 01-26-2018, 08:42 AM
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Re: Can a plant be a "spirit"?

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Actually, native Indians were known to nibble on poison ivy, as were other naturists/herbalists. Supposedly develops a "tolerance" or immunity. Some people still do it today.

Lots of crazy stuff in this world.
I had a buddy years ago who would rub poison sumac all over himself. He said it made him immune. He sure did blister really bad. I guess he thought his immunity was coming soon.
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  #76  
Old 01-26-2018, 09:28 AM
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Re: Can a plant be a "spirit"?

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Yeah I know the whole deal about the break down of the word "cannabis." Yet, the religious consumption of reefer is more Hindu than Hebrew. The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross by John M. Allegro claims that Jesus and the apostles did shrooms. But, I never had anyone produce information that early first century Rabbis were doing shrooms or passing dubes.
I was thinking the same thing as I read some of their materials. As I read their materials I began thinking they sounded like those who believe they've found something important to them in the Bible and as a result they see it everywhere and in every verse. lol I think a more tempered approach is necessary.

Yes, people throughout the region (such as the Scythians) did burn incense that included kannabosm in tents, which naturally created a kind of "hot box" effect. Most of the time these were burned as part of family celebrations, the making treaties, trade deals, negotiations, etc. I believe there is documentation going back to ancient Samaria, Babylon, and Egypt that indicate that it was also burned in temples during religious rites. Obviously, it calmed folks down and created "good vibes". But I don't read of them rolling anything up and smoking it.

Assuming that some of their understanding relating to kannabosm in the OT is correct, I don't think the extent of its use is as great as they make it out to be. I believe it may have been used in the "holy anointing oil" which was used to anoint prophets and kings. It might have also been used to anoint the sick. And all it would do is bring a sense of peace, a "buzz", if you will. They certainly wouldn't have gotten so stoned they couldn't stand, talk, or pray. The medicinal properties of the abstract might have aided in treating skin conditions and pain, stimulating appetite, relieving anxieties, etc. When I look at it through the perspective of it being an ancient culture, with ways and understanding quite different from our own, I'm not bothered by these things if they were so.

Those who are really big on the kannabosm interpretation bring up how it was also used in the holy incense in the tabernacle and the tent of meeting. But they make a few exaggerations here too in my opinion. Let's assume it was used. The tabernacle would have been a place out in the open. And the performance of duties in the holy place didn't include hanging around for recreation. The use of kannabosm here wouldn't have gotten them stoned off their ephods either. At most, it would have brought a sense of calm, relieving anxieties (I imagine knowing that men were struck dead if they failed to perform their duties correctly could cause considerable anxiety). It most likely slowed them down and caused them to be more deliberate in their duties.

When they mention that it would have been used in association with the tent of meeting, they make it look like it was like "hot boxing". But they're mistaken here. The incense wasn't burned inside the tent of meeting. The incense was burned outside of the front door of the tent of meeting. This would have lessened the effects of it, seeing that it wouldn't have been as concentrated as the incense that would have been burned inside of any Scythian tents.

In both examples of the use of kannabosm in relation to OT worship, the focus wasn't the incense. It was the LORD. Any calming effect of using such incense, if experienced, was incidental and probably not truly something the ancient Hebrew mind associated with intoxication. So its use wouldn't have had anywhere near the focus it had in Hinduism and pagan cultures.

I understand that kannabosm was not just used in incense and oils. It was a valuable commodity used in trade, much like wine and strong drink. It is my understanding that ancient hemp falls under the name kannabosm, and so it was used to create parchments, sails for ships, clothing, accessories, etc. Being a valuable commodity, any use in relation to OT worship in the tabernacle or the temple would have also included the sense of using a highly valuable, and fragrant, plant or herb, much like the use of wine in drink offerings and unblemished cattle for sacrifice carried.

There was no "stoner culture", which appears to be what the advocates of kannabosm in Scripture appear to want to indicate. It was an ancient culture using a powerful and expensive plant in incense, oils, and industry. Any "high" experienced along with it wasn't the focus.

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Reefer falls under sorceries which is the Greek φαρμακεία found in Revelation 18:23.
Almost any substance ranging from aspirin to peyote can be classified under pharmakeia (φαρμακεία). I don't think it is the substance that can be classified as "sorcery". In my opinion, and you might disagree, it is the purpose or intention behind the use of a substance that makes it sorcery. For example, some churches use wine or grape juice in the Lord's Supper. This isn't sorcery. However, if someone were to wine or grape juice in relation to some pagan, or wiccan, blessing ritual it would indeed be sorcery. Thus, if kannabosm was used in any way in the tabernacle or the temple or in anointing oils as directed by God, who created it, it wouldn't be a sorcery. The recreational use of any substance that can intoxicate should be approached with caution and moderation, regardless as to if it is wine, strong drink, cannabis, or even cough medicine. So, in my opinion it all boils down to intention and manner of use. Else, what would prevent the use of herbal teas that include Chamomile before bedtime from being classified as a "sorcery"? What would a medication, herbal dietary supplements, or even topical Basetration from being classified as "sorcery"?

So, as stated above, the only thing, in my opinion, that separates any substance from being "sorcery" is its intention and manner of use. Not the substance itself.

Quote:
So, for a Christian to kick back with a doobie while reading his KJV is inadvisable
Yeah, I have to agree. Not only would I not advise someone to smoke cannabis while reading the Bible, but I wouldn't advise someone to drink wine (or any other alcoholic drink) recreationally in relation to Bible study. If it is prescribed medicinally, use as directed. If it is legal and one chooses to use it recreationally, I'd strongly advise they not do it in relation to Bible study. When approaching the Word of God and our gatherings, we must understand that we are seated with Christ in heavenly places, we have no need to be high for a spiritual experience with God. We should be sober and clear headed when approaching the LORD.
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  #77  
Old 01-26-2018, 09:29 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Can a plant be a "spirit"?

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i'm waiting for some of you to snort bible verses
LOL. That's awesome.
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  #78  
Old 01-26-2018, 09:30 AM
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Re: Can a plant be a "spirit"?

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Eat poison ivy and sumac? No way that could be possible.

I would shudder to think someone making a sammich out of poison oak.
I think the extract is used in some holistic medicines.
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  #79  
Old 01-26-2018, 09:53 AM
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Re: Can a plant be a "spirit"?

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I think the extract is used in some holistic medicines.
Homeopathic extracts are literally infinitessimally small, to the point there is actually NOTHING of the original molecules left in the extract in most cases. Homeopathy is based on the idea that an extract of a poison reduced to non existence in water or oil or alcohol or some other medium carries the "essence" of whatever it was that made the original poison toxic, but rendered it inoculative (like a vaccination) and therefore curative. I'm thinking a lot of homeopathic "success" is largely psychological.
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  #80  
Old 01-26-2018, 09:59 AM
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Re: Can a plant be a "spirit"?

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Good God from Zion! Aquila, don't ever fault me for taking you to task. Never, ever, because if you believe this stuff seriously, you need help. If you don't and are just saying these things to shock, then you are in trouble more than you know.

Relax. I have said some things just for shock value. I like to see the stuffy folks get all bent out of shape and flip out over nothing. For me, it shows that they aren't rational. It reveals that they don't ask questions. It also reveals what they truly think of people.

The people that ask, "Now, do you really believe that?", or "Hey, you're just trying to ruffle some feathers! lol" I realize those folks are discerning. It surprises me how many "scholars" and supposed "spiritual authorities" don't have discernment. If discernment was in operation, they'd laugh at me and say, "Riiiighhhht. Stop trying to stir up the wannabe's. lol"

And, sometimes an issue is just a controversial subject and I'm of a different opinion for some reason. I can't help that one. Those are sincere disagreements with good people on both sides.

As for this topic?

I don't see how a plant can be a "spirit".

I don't disagree with medicinal use.

I'm leery about recreational use. But I think the war being waged against this plant is silly. The government has spent billions of dollars, risked and lost the lives of numerous law enforcement agents and other wise good citizens, all in their efforts to stop the use, growth, and distribution of a plant that has never killed anyone and is no more intoxicating that whisky... and the plant is winning. lol Roughly 100 people were killed last year by Christmas trees, and the death rate from responsible cannabis use remains steady 0. Cannabis is obviously more safe than Christmas trees. lol

I see a market. I see revenue. I see jobs. I see new businesses. I see medical advancements. I see people getting off so many artificially designed pharmaceuticals to treat a list of conditions as long as my arm. I see markets, revenue, jobs, and new businesses related to hemp. I see the decriminalization of people who just want to giggle and watch cartoons while eating an entire bag of Dorito's, while contemplating the universe by asking questions like, "Is water really wet, man? I mean, if water touches something, that thing is wet, but maybe water isn't. Far out." lol I see law enforcement being able to focus personnel and resources on far more serious drugs and violent crimes.

But first... we have to get rid of false perceptions and superstitions that see "spirits" instead of opportunity for advancement.

Last edited by Aquila; 01-26-2018 at 10:19 AM.
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