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  #311  
Old 04-16-2018, 10:11 AM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is offline
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Re: Should we teach others to rebel against standa

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Rev.1 Verses 5 to 6

[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
[6] And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Read this and consider what it means to you. To me this is referring to the church, and us being kings and priests unto God. I don't believe that this is referring only to pastors.

So if we are priests, and pastors are over us instead of among us as the elders are referred to be, what are the pastors?

Are they high priests?

Under the Levitical model we had priests and high priests (only one high priest at a time). Under the new covenant, we are all priests and Hebrews makes it clear that Jesus is our High Priest.

So where do pastors fit in?
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  #312  
Old 04-16-2018, 10:17 AM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is offline
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Re: Should we teach others to rebel against standa

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[25] But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
[26] But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
[27] And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

Explain for me how a central authoritative figure reconciles with this scripture?
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  #313  
Old 04-16-2018, 10:17 AM
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Re: Should we teach others to rebel against standa

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I didn't say they were. But by the definition of Thayer of the Greek word "poimēn" let me get it again: "the presiding officer, manager, director, of any assembly: so of Christ the Head of the church, of the overseers of the Christian assemblies, of kings and princes, A shepherd in the Near East was responsible for watching out for enemies trying to attack the sheep, defending the sheep from attackers, healing the wounded and sick sheep, finding and saving lost or trapped sheep, loving them, and sharing their lives and to earn their trust."
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  #314  
Old 04-16-2018, 10:22 AM
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Re: Should we teach others to rebel against standa

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Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
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Rev.1 Verses 5 to 6

[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
[6] And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Read this and consider what it means to you. To me this is referring to the church, and us being kings and priests unto God. I don't believe that this is referring only to pastors.

So if we are priests, and pastors are over us instead of among us as the elders are referred to be, what are the pastors?

Are they high priests?

Under the Levitical model we had priests and high priests (only one high priest at a time). Under the new covenant, we are all priests and Hebrews makes it clear that Jesus is our High Priest.

So where do pastors fit in?
You can't just pull some idea out and think that it doesn't have to fit with what we've already discussed. Whatever reasoning your going to find has to fit contextually with what Jesus was telling John in Revelations.

Every believer is a King and priest but there is still a government. If you don't remember let me grab it for you. Whatever else is to be understood has to be reconciled with what Jesus told John in Revelations. Where He showed the order of His church. "In Revelation 1:12-20 the text draws a picture. In verse 12-13 the text says "And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; [13] And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle."
Now in Verse 19-20 the text explains it "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; [20] The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches." Which we have discussed and He told him to "Write."

Now who are these angels? Ok in 2:1 of Revelation He tells John to "Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks." Then He gives praise unto the angel and the congregation in verse 2-3. While yet rebuking them in verse 4-5.

Then 2:8 He says "And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write." While He gives the angel and the congregation praise in verse 9-10.

Then in 2:12 He says "And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write." So in verse 14-16 we see "But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. [15] So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. [16] Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth." Then Jesus rebukes this angel who John is writing the letter to. So is He speaking of a angelic being or as Strong's says "a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication a pastor"?

But there's more but I'm going to leave it off here. Because the last 2 show enough. In 2:18 He says "And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write." So in verse 20-23 Jesus rebukes the church "Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. [21] And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. [22] Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. [23] And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works." But now look now what it says in verse 24 "But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden." So we know Jesus wasn't talking to John, or an angelic being. Because if a angelic being was doing wrong he would be sinning and we know God didn't place demons over the church! This has to be a man. As is the same throughout. This shows that James Strong had the right interpretation by saying "a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication a pastor."

Which in light of that we can see 1 Timothy 5:21 is showing that "charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality." These angels these men of God have been "elected". Because as the scripture says in Romans 13:1 "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." With that said Tithesmaster fighting against Gods way is as Gamaliel says in Acts 5:38-39 "now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: [39] But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God."
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  #315  
Old 04-16-2018, 10:24 AM
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Re: Should we teach others to rebel against standa

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Once again it has to be reconciled with the context of everything Jesus shared with John in Revelations. He said this no me!
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  #316  
Old 04-16-2018, 10:24 AM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is offline
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Re: Should we teach others to rebel against standa

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Where are they at? And I just used a quote. Because as Barb said "I disagree on PLENTY of things, but that is not rebellion. If I purposely go against the 'house rules', be they scriptural or pastor's personal conviction, that is rebellion."

Which first on Jeremiah 3 you are going to have to explain when that was fufilled, for that was the Lord speaking. So that automatically makes it prophetic. And if its not use scripture to show where it was fufilled, and what on God's green earth makes you believe it's not. I've stated my position.

Because I see nothing, after we talked last night according to this thread, you went dead quiet.
Brother, I did respond to this. I do NOT believe that just because God said something it has to be prophecy.

I said that there is not any prophecy to be fulfilled, because God said, If you turn to me (away from your back-slidden ways), I will give you pastors after my own heart. Israel did not keep her part of the bargain. They were taken into Babylonian captivity. there is no prophecy to fulfill here.
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  #317  
Old 04-16-2018, 10:27 AM
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1ofthechosen 1ofthechosen is offline
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Re: Should we teach others to rebel against standa

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But I believe the definition of Thayer showing what a shepherd does is the answer to that "A shepherd in the Near East was responsible for watching out for enemies trying to attack the sheep, defending the sheep from attackers, healing the wounded and sick sheep, finding and saving lost or trapped sheep, loving them, and sharing their lives and to earn their trust." And that's what a true man of God, "A GOD APPOINTED MAN OF GOD" does. Not as John 10:12 says "But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.*
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  #318  
Old 04-16-2018, 10:31 AM
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Re: Should we teach others to rebel against standa

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You poor thing.

Are you not saying that if I just kiss the papal ring of human tradition, pretend it's in the Bible, and keep things status quo, I'll be accepted and have no reason to concern myself with whether a thing is biblical or not?
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  #319  
Old 04-16-2018, 10:33 AM
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Re: Should we teach others to rebel against standa

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If a Bible Revival would threaten your institution and its traditions, that speaks volumes. Does it not?

Last edited by Aquila; 04-16-2018 at 10:41 AM.
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  #320  
Old 04-16-2018, 10:37 AM
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1ofthechosen 1ofthechosen is offline
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Re: Should we teach others to rebel against standa

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Brother, I did respond to this. I do NOT believe that just because God said something it has to be prophecy.

I said that there is not any prophecy to be fulfilled, because God said, If you turn to me (away from your back-slidden ways), I will give you pastors after my own heart. Israel did not keep her part of the bargain. They were taken into Babylonian captivity. there is no prophecy to fulfill here.
Ummm God never says anything that falls to the ground hold on I'll let God tell you Isaiah 55:8-11 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. [9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. [10] For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: [11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."

So whether He did it to Israel who didn't have respect to it, or whether it got passed on to the church Spiritual Israel as Epesians 2:12-22 says "That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us ; [15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; [16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: [17] And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. [18] For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. [19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; [20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone ; [21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: [22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."

Paul makes the point this best in Romans 9:6-8 "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: [7] Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. [8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."

So whatever He said there Jeremiah 3, would take effect unto us. Your rightly saying it wasn't fulfilled. But it has been fufilled in His Gentile Church. For as Paul says "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel."
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Last edited by 1ofthechosen; 04-16-2018 at 10:41 AM.
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