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Old 05-24-2016, 09:08 AM
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Book of hebrews

I read quite a deep study of the book of Hebrews by Andrew Murray. "THE HOLIEST OF ALL." Murray really did the best job I've seen anyone do with Hebrews.

This sparked me to start this thread about that book. It seems the entire book focuses on the holiest of holies, and getting in there by faith, to overcome all life's battles.

Anyone interested can chime in.

I've heard Hebrews is focused on "the better covenant" and the key word being "better". I think that is certainly a huge part of it, since Hebrews contrasts the old covenant with the new, because a wholesale backsliding was taking place with Jewish believers in the first century, giving rise to the need for this book. It convinces Jews that this current new covenant is God's will for them.

Now, I hope to see no nonsensical notions that the new covenant Hebrews is talking about is not our current covenant. Please take that claptrap elsewhere. (I hope I just did not attract that hyper-dispensationalist element on the forum to this thread by saying that).

Anyway, let's dive in.

Hebrews says more about the right hand seating of Christ, it seems, than any other book of the Bible. The very first chapter is no exception. And what is wonderful is the right hand seating corresponds to the ark of the covenant's mercyseat, in the holiest of holies. So, we get the picture of the holiest of holies from the start.
Heb 1:8 KJV But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
As we contionue in Hebrews, we learn this verse indicates the right hand seating, for that is the throne upon which Jesus sat.
Psa 110:1-2 KJV A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (2) The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
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Old 05-24-2016, 11:19 AM
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Re: Book of hebrews

Anyone interested in Murray's book it is here:

https://johnruffle.files.wordpress.c...rew-murrey.pdf
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Old 05-25-2016, 04:37 PM
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Re: Book of hebrews

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
(Hebrews 1:1-2)

This sets the tone for the entire epistle. It is also a statement of basic apostolic hermeneutics. God spake in times past to the fathers through the prophets, but now in 'these last days' (the Days of Messiah) God has spoken to us (the apostolic, new covenant ekklesia) 'by His Son'. The Greek literally says 'in (the) Son'.

Meaning God's message to mankind is found in Jesus Christ. This is another way of saying the same thing John said in his gospel, in the beginning was the Word... and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us... Jesus Christ - His person, His work, His death, His resurrection, His doctrine, etc... the entire 'Christ event', is the Message of God to mankind.

That rules out other 'messages from God'. God is not speaking to mankind through Mohammed, Sri Rajneesh, Donald Trump, Reverend Moon (the one from Korea), or anyone else. He speaks to us IN THE SON.

In fact, the message of the prophets of old (as Hebrews will later point out) is the same message found in the Son. The Son is the fulfillment of all that went before. Not in the sense that the Son is the 'replacement', but that the Son is the SUBSTANCE of what was given before. The message given from God through His prophets in days of old, that same message WAS MADE FLESH.

So all God's speaking to us nowadays is centered in the Son, the incarnation of deity in human nature.

It says the Son is appointed heir of all things. This is reiterated by Paul here:

For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
(Romans 4:13-16)

God had promised Abraham that he would be the heir of the world. This of course was extended to his descendants. But it was not to be realised under the law, or by the deeds of the law, but by faith. That is, it is to be realised under the terms of the new covenant, it is realised in CHRIST by faith. Christ inherits the world (see Great Commission) and we share in that inheritance by faith.

People may not like to admit it or to acknowledge it, but the church of God shall indeed inherit the world, through faith in Christ. Why? Because Christ owns it all, and it shall ALL be submitted to him (even death itself shall be abolished).

It also says 'by whom he made the worlds'. It is not by a Second Person, or an 'archangelic spirit creature', that God made the worlds, as if God were a general contractor and the Son was a hireling. No, God made the worlds 'by the Son'. Notice, it is THE SON, which speaks to the incarnation. One cannot speak of the Son without reference to the incarnation. He is the 'son of God' BECAUSE he was born by a miracle of the Spirit, causing the virgin Mary to conceive. He is the 'son of God' BECAUSE he is the Christ, the son of David, lawful heir to the throne of Israel, King over God's people.

So when it says the worlds were created 'by the Son', that is, that God created 'by the Son', what is this saying? How could God have created everything way back in the beginning 'by the Son' when the Son hadn't even come into existence yet?

Psalm 136:5 To him that by wisdom made the heavens: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Proverbs 3:19 The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.

Wisdom says this:

The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
(Proverbs 8:22-31)

So what is Hebrews saying? The same thing Paul said here:

But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
(1 Corinthians 1:23-24)

Christ, the Son, is the WISDOM OF GOD incarnate. When it says 'by whom also he made the worlds' the writer to the Hebrews is declaring that the Son is the Wisdom of God. The Hebrews would have known that God made the worlds 'by wisdom', and now it is declared this wisdom of God is the Son. That is to say, Christ is the wisdom of God incarnate in human nature. And since Christ is the incarnate wisdom of God, there is no wisdom or knowledge of God APART FROM CHRIST.

I'ts ALL in Him!
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Last edited by Esaias; 05-25-2016 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 05-25-2016, 05:02 PM
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Re: Book of hebrews

And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
(Hebrews 1:10-12)

The others things attributed as being spoken to or concerning the Son prior to this may be explained as referring to the special place the MAN Christ Jesus has in God's economy. However, THIS passage can only mean one thing altogether: That the Son is indeed YHVH Himself.

The author is referring to this Psalm:

I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations. Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end. The children of thy servants shall continue, and their seed shall be established before thee.
(Psalms 102:24-28)

The Psalm is clearly speaking of God Himself. Isaiah 44 likewise makes the same declarations, that God Himself created everything 'alone', nobody was with him. the only thing with him was his own power and wisdom (which as we have seen are incarnate in Christ). So now the book of Hebrews states the same thing, essentially, that the Son is none other than God Himself in human nature.

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
(Hebrews 1:3)

Christ is the 'brightness' of God's glory. Think of a lightbulb. It is turned on, it gives off energy. We 'see' that energy, we perceive something called 'light' or 'brightness'. So then Christ is the PERCEPTION of God's glory. Christ is not merely a 'reflection' of God's glory, he is the very 'brightness' of God's glory. He is the very quality of the perceptibleness of God's glory. In other words, when we see the Son, we see the Father. When we look upon the Son, we are looking upon the GLORY OF GOD.

He is the 'express image' of God's person. That term, 'express image' is in the Greek the word 'character'. It means this:

χαρακτήρ
charaktēr
khar-ak-tar'
From the same as G5482; a graver (the tool or the person), that is, (by implication) engraving ([“character”], the figure stamped, that is, an exact copy or [figuratively] representation): - express image.

Christ is the very 'engraving' of God's hypostasis (substance). He is Deity 'engraved' in human nature. He is 'the figure (of Deity) stamped' in human nature. He is 'God manifested in the flesh'. The man is a human representation, a PERFECT representation, of God Himself. Not a mere 'likeness', like Adam was, but 'in him dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily', meaning the very essence of Deity itself was somehow incarnated in human nature as this man named Jesus.

Christ is the visible image of God. That is to say, Christ, the Son of God, is the way we perceive and know God, and that as directly as is possible to human beings.
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Old 05-25-2016, 07:51 PM
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Re: Book of hebrews

Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
(Hebrews 2:1-3)

Just a quick thought: A lot of people think (erroneously) that 'the Old Testament is mean and harsh, but the New Testament is all love and sweetness.' Yet this verse tells us that disobedience to the Message of Salvation, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, is an even greater and more sure guarantee of destruction. If the old covenant punished trespassers for EVERY transgression, then so much the more shall we be punished if we neglect the salvation offered in Christ.
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Old 05-26-2016, 09:03 AM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: Book of hebrews

which plenty of people seem anxious to define for you, yet Christ Himself restates in ways that they are not comfortable with.
Do not be deceived, little children...
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Old 05-26-2016, 12:23 PM
thephnxman thephnxman is offline
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Re: Book of hebrews

Quote:
Originally Posted by shazeep View Post
which plenty of people seem anxious to define for you, yet Christ Himself restates in ways that they are not comfortable with.
Do not be deceived, little children...
I could not find that quote in the KJV: so I would not now
the context.


Please enlighten me with chapter and verse. I would suggest
that content and context should agree, firstly with the gospel.

A different opinion brings forth division; that is to say, another
viewpoint (di=two; vision= view). However, with God there is
no division, because His is the ONLY viewpoint to consider. If the
end result (context) contradicts another scripture [with the same
content,] the problem does not lie with God: it is man's problem.
Without the Holy Spirit, surely we ALL suffer from myopia (this,
of course, refers doubly to those who WILL NOT or can not be led
by the Holy Spirit)!

"I write unto you, little children because your sins are
forgiven for HIS NAME's sake."
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Old 05-26-2016, 01:12 PM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: Book of hebrews

1John7Little children, let no one deceive you! The one who does what is right is righteous, just as He is righteous.
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Old 05-26-2016, 07:05 PM
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Re: Book of hebrews

Quote:
Originally Posted by shazeep View Post
1John7Little children, let no one deceive you! The one who does what is right is righteous, just as He is righteous.
And of that must be taken into consideration with the entirety of what the rest of the Bible teaches about the same subject.

Christ's actions, not ours, make us righteous.
Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
This makes righteousness a free gift, not earnings or wages as the result of working.
Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
And God's righteousness is what we are given.
Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Even Jesus said to seek God's righteousness, not our own.
Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Self-righteousness is what is attained by self's efforts to be good.

So, when we read he that does righteousness is righteous, our interpretation cannot conflict with these other passages. And when we reconcile all references to righteousness, the truth comes to light.

John said the one who does righteousness is righteous. He did not say the doing comes before, as though it CAUSES one to be righteous. It is saying the one who IS righteous is the one who does righteousness. How did that righteousness come about? John's verse did not say. He only said the person who already is will manifest an d indicate that by their deeds.

John spoke much of deeds.
1 John 1:6-7 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: (7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Walking in darkness is living a lifestyle of sinning. Walking in light is doing righteous deeds. So, John is saying claims are betrayed as false when one walks in darkness.

But he's careful to remind us that those who are in the light are continually cleansed by the blood of Jesus, which is a reference to the work of the cross.... yes, that pesky cross that excludes adherents to all other religions and faiths that deny Jesus had to die in sacrifice for our salvation and righteousness.
1 John 1:8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
We all have sin and require His blood to cleanse us. And the cleansing is related to forgiveness through the work of the cross, where the blood was shed. It's not enough to repent. I repent daily. But I must repent on the basis of my acknowledgement that the work of the cross is the only means whereby God will forgive us, and without faith in it, there is no forgiveness.
1 John 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: (2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
And the text continues, when we're not supposed to stop at a chapter end to follow it, by saying the advocacy of Christ for us to the Father is a vital part of what is the remedy for us if we sin. And the advocate always points ONLY to the cross, when He recognizes our faith in it, which is what instigates his intercession. Without that faith in the cross there is no intercession.

Then John reverts back to lifestyle again.
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
This is similar to the John verse Shazeep quoted. The ones who know God are the ones who keep His commandments. They do not sin. But again, it is because of what chapter 1 said. The blood of the cross cleanses us.

John continues.
1 John 2:4-6 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (5) But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. (6) He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
We should be living as Christ did if we truly know God. Being IN CHRIST is what is described as truly knowing God. And how do we get into Christ? It's by the same means whereby we are made righteous. We exert a genuine faith from our hearts that His death is our deaths. We come into union with Him at the point of His death. So, it always and never fails to go back to the cross. And it's not this false accusation of empty lip service, but as I have repeated, it is the genuine faith in the heart that only God can see that determines if we've been put into His death. But you have to have faith in that death in order to be put into it,. And that is where we also get His righteousness.

Abiding in Him is not a crossless good life of righteous deeds. Ha! It is getting into union with Christ who is the vine and we are branches. His life flows through us like sap from a vine into the branches. Paul said that is only accomplished by us being crucified with Him, that HIS VERY LIFE AND FAITH manifest through our lives. He actually indwells us and lives through us. It's not copying his behaviour as though we imitate Him, like Thomas Aquinas erringly proposed. He actually indwells us and lives through us. He was on the cross to die as us, but He is inside us to live as us.

And the commandment John wrote was not new but yet is new. John continues to write about antichrists who deny the relationship of actual Father and actual Son in Jesus Christ and God, which clarifies what it means to propose Jesus came in the flesh. He came in the flesh, BUT BY INCARNATION THROUGH BEGETTING OF THE FATHER, which false religions deny. Oh, they like His good deeds and His miracles, but that pesky begetting of the Father and the work of the cross -- the beginning of the Son and the end of the earthly life of the Son 00 begetting and the cross -- are the two vital things we find the Bible focusing on, that false religions deny.
1 John 2:23-26 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. (24) Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. (25) And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. (26) These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
Why does John write these things about the Father actually BEGETTING the Son, making God a begetter? It is so that no one will seduce us!

So, when we read, "Do not be deceived," that CONTEXT of this epistle is saying that in reference to the elements of His birth after being begotten, and the work of the cross in providing us cleansing from sin, and consciously abiding in Christ through union to His death that John has in mind.

Be not deceived? You better believe it! But in PROPER CONTEXT!

And here it comes:
1 John 3:4-7 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (5) And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. (6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. (7) Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Notice the context wherein we read about deception, is conjoined and united to the concepts of Jesus MANIFESTED to take away our sins. How did He do so? By the blood that chapter 1 mentioned. Cleansing us from sin BY THE BLOOD.

We cannot get away from it. Talk about deception and righteous deeds! Please do! But don't rip out the elements that are intrinsically involved in John's context: THE BLOOD OF THE CROSS, JESUS LITERALLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER. the two things false religion will scream against in fury!

Amen. Do not be deceived with scripture taken out of context.
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Last edited by mfblume; 05-26-2016 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 05-26-2016, 07:19 PM
thephnxman thephnxman is offline
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Re: Book of hebrews

Quote:
Originally Posted by shazeep View Post
1John7Little children, let no one deceive you! The one who does what is right is righteous, just as He is righteous.
Good scripture.
Many of us neglect that the intention of obedience, and that
makes a big difference. Just as in worship, obedience should
be "...in Spirit and in truth...". Else, it is not a work of
righteousness: it is only a "work of the flesh"![/B]

We must be disposed to"Judge righteous judgment."
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