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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #111  
Old 06-18-2007, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
I agree to a point BOTH had the created blood of God in them HOWEVER ADAM was NOT the INCARNATE God and Jesus was the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God.
Amen. But that still does not differentiate the fact that you said God's created blood is the reason Jesus could not sin.
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  #112  
Old 06-18-2007, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
I disagree. You are actually proposing idealism. I believe this is more than an ideal -- more than something we can only strive for but never actually attain. We can actually fully walk after the Spirit as He did, and have full victory. If not, God dangles a carrot before our faces and teases us with something we can only term "We strive for it, but can never grasp it."

These scriptures refute that:



The whole reason Paul wrote what he did to the Romans, was because THEY KNEW NOT. God's people perish for lack of knowledge. We need to LEARN the facts of our deaths with Christ until we stop expecting to sin, and expect to live victoriously. When we realize that we really are dead to sin, faith kicks in and we expect in faith to have victory through the Spirit. AND GOD NEEDS THAT FAITH TO EMPOWER US. This is walking after the Spirit.

I really think we've missed something for years in Romans 6.

And these Sriptures support it:


Philippians 3:12-14 reads: "Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.


Romans 7 reads:


We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin."
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  #113  
Old 06-18-2007, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
You misinterpret, though. Mormons read the bible, too. But they misunderstand it.

Brother, when it spoke of GOD"S OWN BLOOD, it was talking about the BLOOD HE POSSESSED AND OWNED. Being God manifest in flesh, he owned the blood in that flesh. You own the blood in your flesh! Your blood is physical. It does not physically have sin. Sin is not physical, brother. Your error is in thinking sin is physical. It is not.

Just as you own the blood in your veins, God owned the blood in His flesh's veins in which he was manifest. That si what is meant to be understood when we read "God's own blood." It is not something that somehow implies it was not the same human blood we have. God is a Spirit. There is not Spirit-blood, since a Spirit is not flesh and blood.
NOPE 1Jn.3:16 clearly states God laid down His LIFE for us. The life is in the blood Lev.17:11. The Blood came from God if not explain the virgin birth are you saying Mary supplied EVERYTHING????? It says she CONCIEVED what did she concieve????????????? Simple the sperma or blood cell came from God.
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  #114  
Old 06-18-2007, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
NOPE 1Jn.3:16 clearly states God laid down His LIFE for us. The life is in the blood Lev.17:11. The Blood came from God if not explain the virgin birth are you saying Mary supplied EVERYTHING????? It says she CONCIEVED what did she concieve????????????? Simple the sperma or blood cell came from God.
Please elaborate on God's sperm, Elder???
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  #115  
Old 06-18-2007, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by J-Roc View Post
And these Sriptures support it:

Philippians 3:12-14 reads: "Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Yes, but that does not mean we can never reach this state.

Quote:
Romans 7 reads:

We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin."
Yes, but Paul related this as part of his life BEFORE he learned the remedy to the dilemma.... THE ANSWER: He can be delivered by God through Jesus Christ (7:24-25). He only tried using law, which can only be accomplished by flesh making flesh do good. That is a far cry from Paul's answer of yielding to God so that He can empower us to do good (Rom 6:13).

Paul was not relating his ever-present struggle, in Romans 7. He first explained the truth in Romans 6, which he did not know during the time of life which he described in chapter 7. But he wrote chapter 7 to show how he analyzed his situation of struggle and came to a revelation of how to be delivered!

Brother, walking in the flesh is jsut what Paul was describing in Romans 7 when he did not rely on the Spirit within as he simply tried HIS best. Trying our best makes the Spirit ineffective in us and dormant. But when he realized the whole prpoblem was when HE tried to good in his own power that evil was present with him, HE CEASED DOING IT IN HIS OWN POWER and started doing what 6:13 said! THROUGH CHRIST.

Minding the things of the flesh was actually the THINKING that he must use self energy to succeed. And he said that causes DEATH!

Compare:

Quote:
Rom 7:9-13 KJV For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. (10) And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. (11) For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. (12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. (13) Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Rom 8:5-6 KJV For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. (6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
He LEARNED he was actually THINKING IN THE FLESH when he tried simply obeying law, WITHOUT RELYING UPON THE SPIRIT IN HIM.

Thinking in the Spirit, or minding the things of the Spirit, is what Paul learned to do through the ordeal of Romans 7. It is relying on the Spirit for victory.
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  #116  
Old 06-18-2007, 10:19 AM
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The WORD was MADE Flesh. Jn.1:14 If there was NOTHING from and of God that contributed to the conception of Jesus how was the WORD made flesh?
If Mary provided EVERYTHING then where is the INCARNATION?
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  #117  
Old 06-18-2007, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
NOPE
Nope?

Brother, you can say what you want, but you are proposing divine flesh teaching.

Quote:
1Jn.3:16 clearly states God laid down His LIFE for us. The life is in the blood Lev.17:11. The Blood came from God if not explain the virgin birth are you saying Mary supplied EVERYTHING????? It says she CONCIEVED what did she concieve????????????? Simple the sperma or blood cell came from God.
GOD POSSESSED THAT LIFE, so it was God's life. He POSSESSED and OWNED that blood. So it was God's blood. (You own a car, so it is your car!) God is not flesh and blood. He manifested IN flesh and blood. There is no SPERM from heaven that is physical and not of this earth nor of humanity. You are teaching DIVINE FLESH and you do not realize it. Really!
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  #118  
Old 06-18-2007, 10:21 AM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
Please elaborate on God's sperm, Elder???
God created a blood cell or sperm and implanted in Mary's womb if not how was the WORD made flesh. Are you saying NOTHING in the conception of Jesus came from God?????? If so then how could he be God made flesh???
Mary CONCIEVED what did she concieve if not the blood cell from God?
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  #119  
Old 06-18-2007, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Nope?

Brother, you can say what you want, but you are proposing divine flesh teaching.



GOD POSSESSED THAT LIFE, so it was God's life. He POSSESSED and OWNED that blood. So it was God's blood. (You own a car, so it is your car!) God is not flesh and blood. He manifested IN flesh and blood. There is no SPERM from heaven that is physical and not of this earth nor of humanity. You are teaching DIVINE FLESH and you do not realize it. Really!
What and WHO did Mary CONCIEVE of?????????????????????????
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  #120  
Old 06-18-2007, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
God created a blood cell or sperm and implanted in Mary's womb if not how was the WORD made flesh. Are you saying NOTHING in the conception of Jesus came from God?????? If so then how could he be God made flesh???
Mary CONCIEVED what did she concieve if not the blood cell from God?
Creating something, and something intrinsically being from heaven are two different things. God created Adam's sperm and blood, too. You are missing consistency in your thoughts. You say God had blood because it was blood created by God. And you say that this blood is the reason Jesus could not sin. But while you agree that God also created Adam's blood, your reasoning fails when we say that Adam could sin although God created his blood. Then when this is brought to your attention, you CHANGE REASONS for Jesus' inability to sin by saying he was God incarnate.

So which will it be? he could not sin because he had newly CREATED BLOOD, or because He was God incarnate?
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