The Development of the Trinity

[Michael The Disciple]

I misunderstood him in thinking he was going to give info on the evolution of apostolic LOGOS teaching into Trinitarian error. Yes it was my mistake. Had I known it was just about how Trinity came along I would not have been excited about it. Again I say if one has not read anything how Trinitarianism started it would be worthwhile.

[Sam]

I have a paper copy of Eld. Drysdale's book, If Ye Know These Things. I have skimmed parts of it but have never read the whole book through. I have read through chapter chapter 15, The Pre-existence of the Son and have quoted from it on here in at least one post.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Sam

I have a paper copy of Eld. Drysdale's book, If Ye Know These Things. I have skimmed parts of it but have never read the whole book through. I have read through chapter chapter 15, The Pre-existence of the Son and have quoted from it on here in at least one post.

as far as the identity of the Word/Logos/Son this has been discussed many times here. The teaching of Eld. Drysdale in which he quotes many OP ministers is found at
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...light=Drysdale

[apostolic of f]

God said he would not share his glory with another.
In Revelation it says "one" sat upon the throne.
When God said "let us make man in our image", he was referring to the diety of Jesus Christ.Not another seperate entity.

Hear o Israel the Lord our God is one Lord.Nothing has changed in that respect.
Jesus sat down on the right hand of power.All authority was relinquished back to the Father.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

It was written to refute Greg Boyd, a backslidden Oneness believer now popular among Trins.

How did you determine that Greg Boyd was backslidden?

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Well my wife ordered this book. I was skimming it today hoping to find something to get excited about. Unfortunately theres not much there except a rehash of former Oneness views concerning the evolution of the Trinity. I had read these things back in 1980 or somewhere in that time frame.

He says the Logos was the root of the Trinity. Then astonishingly he marginally mentions what (modern) Oneness believes. He from what I have seen makes no attempt to actually analyze the "logos".

Very disappointing to me. Now if you are a Oneness who has never occasioned to study the evolution of the Trinity doctrine there would be things to learn. It still fails in the sense of giving no, or at least so little Biblical teaching on "Logos" that one would hardly notice.

For anyone interested the most profound Oneness book I know of was:

If Ye Know These Things by Elder Ross Drysdale

It was written to refute Greg Boyd, a backslidden Oneness believer now popular among Trins.

There is a section on the Pre Existence Of Christ that gives the true Oneness revelation of the LOGOS DOCTRINE.

Follow this link from my web site. Its on the way back machine archived by Michael Blume. The whole book is there online.

http://www.freeforum101.com/inthelig...rum=inthelight

Hello Michael,

I followed your link, and read the section of the Pre-Existence Of Christ. I disagree with this position, because I believe there is a stronger case biblically to be made that OT "christophanies" were actually angels, and that people (Abraham, Jacob, Moses, etc.) didn't see God himself, or even a pre-incarnate "visible" Logos.

This idea of an OT visible Logos is not new, and was in fact part of a larger doctrine (known as Logos-Christology) which was the precursor of Trinitarianism. Much of Logos-Christology was appropriated from the teachings of Philo the Jew of Alexandria, who wrote in the 1st ce. Philo had constructed his Logos doctrine from a synthesis of Jewish and Greek thought. He even referred to the Logos as the "first-begotten of God", "eldest son", and "image of God". For him, the Logos (a creation of God) emanated from God over a period of time, and was a mediator between God and creation- specifically, between God and man.

Unfortunately, Logos-Christology posited an ontologically-subordinate Son who was not eternal. This belief system eventually evolved into Arianism, which was addressed at the Council of Nicea.

Is there a correct, biblical doctrine of the Logos? I believe there is, and John addressed it in the Prologue of his Gospel. The Logos is the immanent self-expression of God. How does a transcendent God, whose very thoughts are so far above ours (Is 55:8-9), communicate with us? By expressing himself in a way which we CAN understand. This is the Logos: God's self-expression.

In his Prologue, the Apostle John was re-capturing and re-stating the original, biblical Dabar (Hebrew: "Word") motif, over against all Greek and Hellenized-Jewish constructions of prior Logos teachings. Did the Logos originate over a period of time? No, it was with God in the beginning (Jn 1:1). Was the Logos a semi-divine mediator? No, the Logos WAS God!

The writer of Hebrews (chapter one) stated that God spoke (his Word/Dabar/Logos) in times past by his prophets, but in these last days spoke by his Son- the Word/Dabar/Logos made flesh (Jn 1:14).

[mizpeh]

Hi Dave,

What do you think Jesus meant when he said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad."? John 8:56

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Hello Michael,

I followed your link, and read the section of the Pre-Existence Of Christ. I disagree with this position, because I believe there is a stronger case biblically to be made that OT "christophanies" were actually angels, and that people (Abraham, Jacob, Moses, etc.) didn't see God himself, or even a pre-incarnate "visible" Logos.

I was beginning to think I was the only one that had that view

[deltaguitar]

Just a couple of questions:

Where is Jesus now, scripture says he is at the right hand of the Father? What does that mean to you guys?

Does he have a body? I am thinking about his resurrection and how he clearly had a glorified body and rose up into the clouds.

Also, scripture is clear that Christ is interceding on our behalf. What does this mean to you guys?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Just a couple of questions:

Where is Jesus now, scripture says he is at the right hand of the Father? What does that mean to you guys?

Does he have a body? I am thinking about his resurrection and how he clearly had a glorified body and rose up into the clouds.

Also, scripture is clear that Christ is interceding on our behalf. What does this mean to you guys?

Jesus has a body and sits on the throne of God making intercession. He rules over heaven and earth. I'm not sure what that entails but it must keep him busy.