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  #91  
Old 12-08-2019, 10:19 PM
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Nicodemus1968 Nicodemus1968 is offline
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Re: Thoughts on what brings God's blessings

If in heaven were free will moral agents that can sin in heaven. Some of the posts are relating this topic to the “angels” that left their first estate to prove we will have the ability to commit transgressions in heaven. I just don’t understand what scriptures they can explain this theory with. The Bible plainly states that there is a battle with the flesh and spirit, Paul said there contrary the one to the other. Our flesh represents our sin nature, that’s why Paul said I die daily. Paul said in me dwelleth no good thing, that is in my flesh (sin nature) the ability to commit sin. If when we die that nature to commit sin is taken from us we will be fully committed to him (i know my words will be taken out of context). Pauls writing always points to the fact that while were here on this earth there is a longing to know God more intimately, yet this flesh is our hindrance. Between demonic spirits and the nature of this flesh its a constant battle, we have rest on this earth yet Eye hath not seen nor ear heard.... were not going to have knowledge of this world, were going to be in REVELATION, not KNOWLEDGE, knowledge puffeth up. We’re not going to have a mindset of sin like on this earth our mind is going to be Jesus.

What about?
Adam he sinned
1-Explain to me how that was heaven
2- His wife was tempted and he gave into his wife, who is going to temp us in heaven?

Satan and his angels sinned in heaven
1- Please explain that to me with scripture, that Lucifer was the chief Angel of Music and he decided one day he wanted to become God and he gathered 1/3 of the angels and wanted a rebellion against God and God kicked him out.

Did Jesus have free will?
Jesus was tempted just like we are. Yet he did it with no sin! So, does that mean Jesus to this present day is still being tempted?

Do we have free will now?
Yes we do, when we die that nature of free will is dissolved with this humanity in the ground. Cremate me if you will, my flesh will go back to the dust it was created from. My spirit goes and will be connected to my maker, my thoughts, mindset will be him, not on this previous life, but my dedication to my king. Eye hath not seen nor ear hear neither has it entered into the heart of man... Heaven is pure Revelation of Jesus, Paul said he heard things that man cannot utter. This mind and our bodies have no place in that dimension. It’s a place that is pure, a presence unlike we have ever felt.
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  #92  
Old 12-08-2019, 10:57 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Thoughts on what brings God's blessings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
So, then when we have departed from this earth, and are in the third dimension with God.
The third dimension? Paul mentions a third heaven, nothing about a third dimension. If you are having a discussion with me, wouldn't it be better if you didn't make things up?

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
If a person is found with sin they can be cast to outer darkness? Cause with your mindset of our mind in heaven will be the same as on earth then there will always be a way to depart from the faith. Now, since there is a ditch on both sides (unless you don’t believe that) that would also mean souls that entered death (outer darkness) can have a chance at redemption. If we have still have our mindset we have on earth then would in damnation should still have the mindset of repentance.
You aren't following what is being discussed. Because you have a preconceived notion that we are all inherent sinners which can be only taken out of sin with our own death, burial, and resurrection. While you may post back and claim you don't believe this, you sure respond like you do.

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
There has been discussion that as we are here on earth we will be in heaven. Free will agents to do with as we please. There was even discussion relating to the so called “fallen Angels” that left their first estate. I was using this verse in relation to those discussions that if were going to have the same mindset in heaven, why was Paul wanting to be absent from this body? I mean he should’ve be weary of this body (physical or the nature of his flesh) since this nature will be with him for all eternity.
But the verse says nothing about what you are posting. Paul makes the statement that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Simple, nothing more. Your explanation concerning physical flesh isn't what is meant by being carnal. Carnality is of the mind, not our DNA. Who the Lord has set free is free indeed.



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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
Bro. Benincasa, perhaps you need more rest. When did I ever say that???
Look, below in your answer to me.

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
This is the mindset your stating were going to have in heaven.
Again, you assume that you can never get out of sin until you die.
Therefore you put words in my mouth I never posted.


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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
The discussion Mr. Benincasa
Mr? that was quick.

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post

is being a free will moral agent with the mindset we have here on earth to chose good or evil even after death. So, i used this verse to bring my point of view that this idea that where going to have a free will with the mindset that we had here on earth, because God doesn’t want “mindless whatever” up in heaven. Free will moral agent comes with everything it comes with, not just what you and others decide to fulfill your point.
When did you say that? Right here. Paul didn't struggle with a sinful nature. He is speaking of man in general.

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
From the fall of Adam each and everyone of us was born with a sin nature i.e Paul told the church at Corinth that after Adam all die, physically???
Looks like the verses I offered were ignored? Romans 5 also states that through one man's obedience many are made righteous? Looks like you are more focused on the fallen man, instead of the risen Man? Adam didn't die physically. Remember, the verse in Genesis tells us that the DAY Adam transgressed the Law he died. So, the death was what Jesus came to undue to escort Adam back into Eden.


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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
Psalms 51 is the Psalm of repentance with this verse is David stating that his Mother was in sin or because of the fallen nature of man he was born in sin, relating to God why he fell into sin with Bethesda. Again I’m relating to the nature you say where going to have in heaven, free will mind that can chose to good or evil has its drawbacks. Again you don’t chose what come with the free will mindset you get all or it or none of it.
Sorry, but David isn't saying that he was an infant who was in sin. He is telling us that sin is what his mother did when he was CONCEIVED. I'm not choosing anything, I am just looking at what the verses are saying. Not what someone is telling me they believe the verses are saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
So, you DON’T believe we were born into a sin nature. When does the nature come to a child, 13 or maybe 20 years old.
Roman Catholics believe that infants are sinners in the womb. Hence they need baptism. Do you believe that babies need baptism? When is it time to baptize a child? 13 or maybe 20? in Jonah 4:11 God tells Jonah that He cared about Nineveh, because there were 120,000 innocent children. The scripture notes that they didn't hold choice. Why? because they were infants.
David tells us about his mother being sinful, that the conditions of his birth "conception" was one of sin. Not he as an infant. The infant is brought into a world of sin, and through that world around them is where they grow up and make choices. Hence Joshua 24:15 "choose you this day whom ye will serve."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
I believe you may not, which you have the free will to do so. This flesh is symbolic of sin, doesn’t matter the age. No one taught me to lie, or steal my nature was that way. Thank God for an alter at the age of 9, and trust me I had a list of cruel things I repented of. By the way, I heard your testimony personally don’t tell me you didn’t have things to repent over. You cant just “blame” your parents you had a sin nature on you just as much as anyone of us. I’m sorry this thing about “aborted babies” etc, with all due respect please trade your advice “think about what you post”. I’m talking about the sin nature that comes with this flesh, Jesus told them become as a child, children aren’t innocent, they believe. As adults we tend to move away from full believing and depend on our own intellect.
If you heard my testimony in Michigan, you then would remember that I wasn't 9. But since you bring up who I use to be, I can tell you that my testimony is about where I am today. Obviously you didn't understand my testimony. It isn't who we were, it is where we are in the blood of Christ. The decisions we make after we walk out of the watery grave in Jesus name.



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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
I mean this in Love, if I didn’t know your personality and I read your response I would say two things...
Don't take this the wrong way. Please. But, you don't know me personally. Because meeting me once, doesn't mean you know me. Then we can all say that we know a plethora of preachers who have visited our churches and preached to us. Then got out of the pulpit and shook our hands.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
1- You have a complex
This sounds like forum pyschological projection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
2- You struggle with Intimidation
Is that what you are currently dealing with?

Because of the way you posted your response, I saw this first.
I thought "that is an odd thing to say?" Because I was puzzled to what I would be intimated about? It isn't your Bible knowledge, I can't for the life of me remember what you look like, or what happened when we met? Therefore I searched the rest of the post to see where you dealt with my offerings. I found them in bolded font in the quoted section.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
How about you engage in a debate with manners, read your response it seems personal. Please don’t take this personal. That little remark about what I’m thinking about on the pulpit is childish, why do you feel you have to write like that. What are you going through? You don’t deal with small man syndrome do you?
Funny, "please don't take this personal" then you proceed to make it personal? Asking you what you are thinking when you are in the pulpit is frankly a good question. Because you believe that even though we have the Holy Ghost we are still a slave to sin? If I am wrong, please correct me. But if you can maintain some sort of spiritual holiness when you are in the pulpit. Then why can't that be maintained the rest of eternity? Jesus said LEARN OF HIM. Paul admonished us to WALK in the light as JESUS walks in the Light. John tells us in 1 John 3 that we are to purify ourselves to be as pure and righteous as Jesus. While that might be skimmed over by many a Baptist and Presbyterian, it is still book. It is Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection which gives us the power of the Cross. the infilling of the Holy Ghost which strengthens us to do good works.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
The topic being discussed is will we have the mindset we have on earth in heaven? We will remember our life here, we will have knowledge of who people are, etc.
We will have a knowledge of who people are? Will we also have no knowledge of who we are?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post

I have a question for you. If you want to answer great, if not that fine as well.

1- Seeing we have this free will moral agent with the mindset we had on earth to do good or evil. How will we be lead by the Holy Ghost in heaven?
Are you serious?

How are you lead by Jesus Christ right now???
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Last edited by Evang.Benincasa; 12-08-2019 at 11:00 PM.
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  #93  
Old 12-09-2019, 05:06 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Thoughts on what brings God's blessings

I think the whole confusion here is that if we can’t get it straight down here we won’t be going up there. Putting on the mind of Christ. Being transformed by the renewing of our mind. Yet, Churchanity (the industrial church complex) has a bipolar Christianity where the servants of Christ remain at their immature entry level, or worse stay in a state of spiritually retardation. What we see are people who are in constant struggle with double mindedness. We are to be MORE than overcomers? Sadly people shout their hair down and run the pews over that statement. But slowly smolder on the trip out of the parking lot to head home.
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  #94  
Old 12-09-2019, 05:29 AM
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Re: Thoughts on what brings God's blessings

There will come a point where:

death, hell, and the grave are destroyed Rev 20:14

saints are made immortal, 1 Cor 15:53

and we shall ever be with the Lord, 1 Thess 4:17

so, it seems unlikely that God would allow us to attain immortality and remain forever in His presence with any possibility that we would rebel.
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  #95  
Old 12-09-2019, 06:18 AM
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Nicodemus1968 Nicodemus1968 is offline
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Re: Thoughts on what brings God's blessings

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
I think the whole confusion here is that if we can’t get it straight down here we won’t be going up there. Putting on the mind of Christ. Being transformed by the renewing of our mind. Yet, Churchanity (the industrial church complex) has a bipolar Christianity where the servants of Christ remain at their immature entry level, or worse stay in a state of spiritually retardation. What we see are people who are in constant struggle with double mindedness. We are to be MORE than overcomers? Sadly people shout their hair down and run the pews over that statement. But slowly smolder on the trip out of the parking lot to head home.
The topic at the beginning was blessings, then of course like the other threads one discussion leads to another. Someone brought up the thought and I believe it was you that said “the question is will people be actively sinning in heaven?” Someone responses No! And you immediately start saying it’s amazing how many Christians believe you can’t have a sinless life while on earth? You stated they believe that you have to die in order to be from sin. You put words in their mouth, you have not given any verses whatsoever that claim we’re able to be actively sinning while we’re in heaven with the Lord. I believe we live a sinless life on this earth, I understand what your saying that some believe we have to sin, I agree. Yet, to imply and agree that we will have a free will mind that has the ability to sin once we’re dead and with the Lord is not biblical. You have agreed with Mr. Blume about the topic of the fallen angels and the theory behind that story. The discussion is not on Earth the discussion is we’re dead and in heaven and still have the ability to sin that’s the discussion. There will be no active sin in that place, nothing carnal! We have the ability to sin on this earth, and you have the ability through Jesus Christ to remain sin free, we reign with Christ. As we die and depart from this Earth we will not have the same carnal mind we had on this earth, we will not have a free will to decide to sin and then be cast out. I understand you said there is nothing more to the verse of what Paul said “to be absent from this body, is to be present with the Lord” I believe Paul meant to be absent from this body of sin! Was Pul speaking his physical fleshy body, no he was talking about while in this body you have the sin corruptible nature it goes with, remember he told the Roman church “who shall save me from the body of this death”, in another scripture he said “I’m crucified with Christ”, and another “I die daily.” We have victory while we die from this carnal man or sixth day man (if you still believe that) while on this physical earth we have victory through the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Again Paul said “for me to live is Christ, and to die is gain” he was talking about physically die from this life to be with the Lord, with the mindset you’ve brought you should immediately rebuke Paul and tell him “you mindless dupe, you can be with the Lord right now, you don’t have to physically die!” Once again, I believe you can live a holy, victorious life on this earth, you can live free from sin, the former man is crucified as long and you crucify him daily.
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Last edited by Nicodemus1968; 12-09-2019 at 06:21 AM.
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  #96  
Old 12-09-2019, 06:37 AM
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Re: Thoughts on what brings God's blessings

God did not create us with free will, to not be robots, only to remove that free will later.
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Old 12-09-2019, 06:42 AM
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Re: Thoughts on what brings God's blessings

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
For clarity, please in layman’s terms, do you believe that we will be able to sin in heaven? Will we be a free will moral agent in the heavens?

2 Corinthians 5:8 KJV
[8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.


Romans 7:18 AMP
[18] For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh [my human nature, my worldliness-my sinful capacity]. For the willingness [to do good] is present in me, but the doing of good is not.


Romans 7:24 AMP
[24] Wretched and miserable man that I am! Who will [rescue me and] set me free from this body of death [this corrupt, mortal existence]?


Psalm 51:5 KJVS
[5] Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.


I believe sin comes from a nature that we have since our conception into life. This physical man represents the nature of sin, if we are able to commit sin to in heaven or have a free will mindset, where will that nature come from?
How does free will equate with carnality? Physicsl only realtes to sin since the fall. Not before. To say otherwise is gnosticism. Will say more when time permits.
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Old 12-09-2019, 07:05 AM
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Re: Thoughts on what brings God's blessings

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How does free will equate with carnality? Physicsl only realtes to sin since the fall. Not before. To say otherwise is gnosticism. Will say more when time permits.
How does free will equate with carnality?
How does it not?


Physicsl only realtes to sin since the fall.
I agree with that. Now, (I’m not saying you stated this) I don’t agree that heaven is the garden of Eden.


Not before. To say otherwise is gnosticism. Will say more when time permits.[/QUOTE]
Look forward to it.
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  #99  
Old 12-09-2019, 07:11 AM
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Re: Thoughts on what brings God's blessings

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
2- You struggle with Intimidation
Is that what you are currently dealing with?

Because of the way you posted your response, I saw this first.
I thought "that is an odd thing to say?" Because I was puzzled to what I would be intimated about? It isn't your Bible knowledge, I can't for the life of me remember what you look like, or what happened when we met? Therefore I searched the rest of the post to see where you dealt with my offerings. I found them in bolded font in the quoted section.


You need to look at what I said differently than what you assumed. I didn’t say you struggle with being intimidated I said you struggle with intimidation.
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Old 12-09-2019, 07:15 AM
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Re: Thoughts on what brings God's blessings

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
God did not create us with free will, to not be robots, only to remove that free will later.
I believe God created us with free will, absolutely. We have the free will to chose him or not to, we have the free will to do whatever your heart desires good or bad. Yet, when we depart from this life why do we need that free will mindset? Are there temptations there, are there situations there that will cause the need for free will?
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