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01-07-2018, 02:59 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 5,437
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Re: James Strong, KJV, Redefinitions of words?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Pitta
Scholars today have similar language skills as the KJV translators.
If someone suggests otherwise, please provide evidence to support your hypothesis.
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I second the motion.
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01-07-2018, 04:27 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 39,111
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Re: the modern redefinition, losing the word tempe
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Originally Posted by votivesoul
Why didn't you quote the portion of my post where I show that the English word temperance comes from a Latin word that means "self-control"?
There is no inherent idea to the word temperance that suggests Godly or holy behavior apart from self-control. The Holy Spirit bears fruit in us such as to give us the power to control ourselves.
The fact that you see "self-control" as bumbling psychobabble shows that you are the one interested in redefining words to suit your fancy, not the Biblical scholars who've chosen to use it in the stead of temperance in their English version translations (e.g. NASB). You've assigned a highly subjective, personal definition based on your own private interpretation that has nothing to do linguistically with the actual underlying Greek word in question.
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Aaron, I must say that the above is beautiful post.
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01-07-2018, 04:28 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
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Re: James Strong, KJV, Redefinitions of words?
Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul
I second the motion.
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I third the motion.
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“Burn the Boats!!!” — Hernan Cortes
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01-07-2018, 05:16 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
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Re: James Strong, KJV, Redefinitions of words?
Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul
You know this how?
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It isn't odd for scholars, especially the professors to keep their notes Gleason Archer use to keep notes in Ancient Hittite), Scholars would even hold discussions in the ancient languages. I have a friend who would speak in Latin with his wife if he didn't want his children to know what they were talking about. Another thing about scholars using the ancient languages, there is a scene in the movie Tombstone, where the characters Doc Holiday and Johnny Ringo recite to each other a Latin poem. This was done by scholars and professors alike. In Wittenburg, the students and the professors would engage in language debates. I mention all this because for the scholar translators to converse in the ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, Latin, and Greek not so far fetched. What I don't understand is how that makes any difference to this conversation. Obviously we have individuals posting who don't know much about modern scholarship in ancient languages. To make a claim that Egyptologist are imbeciles who haven't the foggiest idea what they are talking about? One would first have to PROVE the the Egyptologist to be wrong. Anything else is just spitting and whittling.
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“Burn the Boats!!!” — Hernan Cortes
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01-07-2018, 09:51 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 23,543
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Re: James Strong, KJV, Redefinitions of words?
I fourth the commotion.
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01-09-2018, 01:03 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,407
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Re: the modern redefinition, losing the word tempe
Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul
Why didn't you quote the portion of my post where I show that the English word temperance comes from a Latin word that means "self-control"?
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Simply because:
It is basically the etymological fallacy.
The Latin definition itself may be over-simplified, as is the tendency for shorthand definitions, but that is irrelevant anyway as your attempt involves the etymological fallacy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymological_fallacy
Taking one definition from a source language usage hundreds of years ago and trying to proscribe today's English from that dictionary extraction is really a nice textbook case of the fallacy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul
There is no inherent idea to the word temperance that suggests Godly or holy behavior apart from self-control. The Holy Spirit bears fruit in us such as to give us the power to control ourselves.
The fact that you see "self-control" as bumbling psychobabble shows that you are the one interested in redefining words to suit your fancy, not the Biblical scholars who've chosen to use it in the stead of temperance in their English version translations (e.g. NASB). You've assigned a highly subjective, personal definition based on your own private interpretation that has nothing to do linguistically with the actual underlying Greek word in question.
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To givv an example.
The Christian Temperance Society
At its founding in 1874, the stated purpose of the WCTU was to create a "sober and pure world" by abstinence, purity, and evangelical Christianity.
Nobody remotely considers calling it the Christian Self-Control Society.
Two different words, two different meanings. And any version that loses temperance and changes it to self-control is corrupted, and is likely corrupted in 1,000 other spots as well.
Steven
Last edited by Steven Avery; 01-09-2018 at 01:09 AM.
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01-09-2018, 01:15 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,407
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Re: James Strong, KJV, Redefinitions of words?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Avery
That is definitely true, as they were fluent, proficient, and spoke and read Greek literature of all types daily. They carried on conversation, had debates in Greek and simply were way, way above today's crew of lexicon scholars.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul
You know this how?
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I've placed some material here (and consider this a starting point.).
the character of the age in which they lived
http://www.purebibleforum.com/showth...ich-they-lived
Separately, there is also a rich vein of material about the skills of the AV learned men, including a discussion of the Greek debates, and their language skills. I could pull some of that together, if it would help
In addition, I have a separate set of references about how the modern seminarian scholars, and this includes translators and writers of grammar books, often cannot even speak Greek in any sort of conversational, comprehensible fashion.
I've also noticed how lexicon scholars can always make lexical excuses when dealing with solecisms in the modern corruption text, which grate the ear of a fluent speaker. A fine study on that is how Eugenius Bulgaris wrote about the harsh and false Greek in the section in 1 John 5, when you remove the heavenly witnesses and have only the gender discordance of the earthly witnesses. Another example is the beautiful "God was manifest in the flesh", which is lost in the corruption versions. There, the lexicon scholar excuses for the missing antecedent are legion.
Steven
Last edited by Steven Avery; 01-09-2018 at 01:24 AM.
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01-09-2018, 01:32 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Wisconsin Dells
Posts: 2,941
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Re: James Strong, KJV, Redefinitions of words?
Nice reference. But it does not compare scholarly ability from 1611 with their counterparts in 2018.
Yes, the old translators were a talented bunch.
But so are the current batch.
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01-09-2018, 08:19 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 23,543
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Re: James Strong, KJV, Redefinitions of words?
Yes, modernists like Virginia Mollenkott are quite talented all right.
Virginia Ramey Mollenkott
College professor
Virginia Ramey Mollenkott, best known for her "God of the Breasts" interpretation of El Shaddai, spent her 44-year professional career teaching college level English literature and language, but developed ... Wikipedia
Born: January 28, 1932 (age 85), Philadelphia, PA
Education: New York University, Bob Jones University, Temple University
Awards: Lambda Literary Award for Transgender/Bisexual
Nominations: Lambda Literary Award for Transgender/GenderQueer
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01-09-2018, 09:39 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Wisconsin Dells
Posts: 2,941
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Re: James Strong, KJV, Redefinitions of words?
FF Bruce and Bruce Metzger come to mind.
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