View Full Version : **** More TV Fallout - Another Ethics Question: Um, I thought ... ***
that those on the TV committee would stay??
Posted by Cotton Mather a few months ago:
There was a requirement that any potential committee members had to agree to stay with the organization no matter how the vote went.
Brother Travis as the committee moderator.
There are two chairmen.
For the resolution:
Mark Jordan
Anthony Mangun
Mike Williams
Tommy Hudson
Art Hodges
Anti Resolution:
Ron Mullings
TL Craft
Johnny Godair
Gilbert Pearson
Kevin Prince
Have JG and TLC forgotten their commitment? Does our word count for anything anymore?
Would Jordan, Mangun, Hodges, Williams or Hudson [pro-side] have pulled out if the vote did not go their way?
What will Kevin Prince do? He seemed to be the sacrificial lamb on the business meeting floor ... he was the only one to go to bat against the resolution this year at GC???
hometown guy
11-30-2007, 02:29 PM
Would Jordan, Mangun, Hodges, Williams or Hudson [pro-side] have pulled out if the vote did not go their way?
no they would have kept trying to pass it every year
no they would have kept trying to pass it every year
Well within the rules ... no?
Pastor G
11-30-2007, 02:30 PM
What will Kevin Prince do? He seemed to be the sacrificial lamb on the business meeting floor ... he was the only one to go to bat against the resolution this year at GC???
Kevin won't go anywhere while he is TX District sec...
Kevin won't go anywhere while he is TX District sec...
Seems to me he was hung to dry by his compadres ...
pelathais
11-30-2007, 02:31 PM
I'm not familiar with this committee and its requirements. Does Cotton Mather have any docs or just spectral evidence?
Is there at least a text of the resolution that formed the committee or something akin to a charter?
I'm not familiar with this committee and its requirements. Does Cotton Mather have any docs or just spectral evidence?
Is there at least a text of the resolution that formed the committee or something akin to a charter?
This was the same committee that formulated the survey questions ... is it not???
Nahum
11-30-2007, 02:33 PM
Cotton Mather has left the building permanently.
Minister_WD
11-30-2007, 02:33 PM
Ron Mullings is a stand up guy. Indeed, he voted against the resolution but he does not endorse or support what the other Brethren on this list are attempting to do.
hometown guy
11-30-2007, 02:34 PM
Well within the rules ... no?
but if it is a conviction you shouldnt be loyal about it.
revrandy
11-30-2007, 02:34 PM
Ron Mullings is a stand up guy. Indeed, he voted against the resolution but he does not endorse or support what the other Brethren on this list are attempting to do.
Bro. Mullins is a Christian in the truest sense of the Word...
He is a good man...
hometown guy
11-30-2007, 02:34 PM
Ron Mullings is a stand up guy. Indeed, he voted against the resolution but he does not endorse or support what the other Brethren on this list are attempting to do.
and whats that
Didn't these guys also present their positions in the Forward. Each side got 10 pages.
Some say there was no such requirement was made of those who comprised the committee ... was this an oral agreement ?...
... I wonder why others like NW or VM chose not attach their names to this committee?
Pastor G
11-30-2007, 02:41 PM
Seems to me he was hung to dry by his compadres ...
Well I think he volunteered to be hung out to dry... The whole idea of putting it off in Ohio and arguing about it in the Forward pretty much came from him or those that have his ears... Knowing Kevin, I am sure wanted to be the spokesman... He actually spun it and addressed it like it should have been done on their side..
Ron Mullings is a stand up guy. Indeed, he voted against the resolution but he does not endorse or support what the other Brethren on this list are attempting to do.
RM .... Integrity defined.
ChicagoPastor
11-30-2007, 02:42 PM
Dan, you have brought up a very important piece of information....I can't wait to see if JG and TLC hold true to what they agreed to.
Nahum
11-30-2007, 02:42 PM
Well I think he volunteered to be hung out to dry... The whole idea of putting it off in Ohio and arguing about it in the Forward pretty much came from him or those that have his ears... Knowing Kevin, I am sure wanted to be the spokesman... He actually spun it and addressed it like it should have been done on their side..
He was well-spoken on the conference floor, but his argument was nonsensical.
BoredOutOfMyMind
11-30-2007, 02:42 PM
Some say there was no such requirement was made of those who comprised the committee ... was this an oral agreement ?...
... I wonder why others like NW or VM chose not attach their names to this committee?
They were not asked to join the committee....
Well I think he volunteered to be hung out to dry... The whole idea of putting it off in Ohio and arguing about it in the Forward pretty much came from him or those that have his ears... Knowing Kevin, I am sure wanted to be the spokesman... He actually spun it and addressed it like it should have been done on their side..
They're defense ... seemed ho-hum ... this year ... just sending out one batter.
Either they thought they were in a lock for a win ... or it's as if they were subconsciously hoping for the resolution to pass.
Minister_WD
11-30-2007, 02:43 PM
and whats that
Split the fellowship(start their own org.)
Dan, you have brought up a very important piece of information....I can't wait to see if JG and TLC hold true to what they agreed to.
Of course, the question will be if ... the men in that room agreed to this premise for formation.
Pastor G
11-30-2007, 02:47 PM
They're defense ... seemed ho-hum ... this year ... just sending out one batter. Either they thought they were in a lock for a win ... it's as if they were subconsciously hoping for the resolution to pass.
Well I did expect a lot more talk on the floor than there was... IMO they thought they had it in the bag... And the reason MJ stood up and offered an amendment was because he and the pro side of the issue thought the cons had it in the bag... I was a little nervous when Baxter stood up against the amendment, but now I am glad he did...
meBNme
11-30-2007, 02:49 PM
Has it been proven that those pastors are leaving or is that all hearsay, gossip and speculation too?
Has it been proven that those pastors are leaving or is that all hearsay, gossip and speculation too?
JG and TLC are on the facilating committee ... for the new org ... MBM. Sponsors.
Now either they will hold dual membership ... which will be one of the options reportedly offered ... or be licensed by the new fellowship ... which would mean they can't hold a UPCI license, anymore.
RevDWW
11-30-2007, 02:53 PM
Would Jordan, Mangun, Hodges, Williams or Hudson [pro-side] have pulled out if the vote did not go their way?
I spoke with one of these men personally, face to face before conference and was told not matter which way it went they were UPC and would stay UPC.
I spoke with one of these men personally, face to face before conference and was told not matter which way it went they were UPC and would stay UPC.
I don't doubt AM's honor.
Do you know if their was any commitment made formally or informally by committee members to stick it out even if the result was unfavorable?
hometown guy
11-30-2007, 02:57 PM
Split the fellowship(start their own org.)
its not a new org its a fellowship just like A.M. is upc but has a different fellowship with K.P.
BoredOutOfMyMind
11-30-2007, 02:58 PM
I don't doubt AM's honor.
Do you know if their was any commitment made formally or informally by committee members to stick it out even if the result was unfavorable?
Dan, give up. There are high canyon walls on both sides and sheer cliffs in front of you.
C'mon stop the digging. There is no gold there.
:digging
its not a new org its a fellowship just like A.M. is upc but has a different fellowship with K.P.
The UPCI is a fellowship HG .. we can play semantics all we want...
this new non-for-profit ORGANIZATION ...
WILL BE LICENSING ... AND OFFERING NON-LICENSE MEMBERSHIP.
RevDWW
11-30-2007, 03:01 PM
Do you know if their was any commitment made formally or informally by committee members to stick it out even if the result was unfavorable?[/B]
I'm not sure...I had heard that but have no facts to back it up.
Minister_WD
11-30-2007, 03:01 PM
The UPCI is a fellowship HG .. we can play semantics all we want...
this new non-for-profit ORGANIZATION ...
WILL BE LICENSING ... AND OFFERING NON-LICENSE MEMBERSHIP.
EXACTLY
Dan, give up. There are high canyon walls on both sides and sheer cliffs in front of you.
C'mon stop the digging. There is no gold there.
:digging
Pass me a yodel.
B_Kendrick
11-30-2007, 03:08 PM
Actually, I know Larry Booker personally, who is on the board, and it is said to be a fellowship, not an orginazation. In which you can still carry any liscense to be apart of it. Have any of you talked to any of the men on this board, or is what your posting all secondhand information?
BoredOutOfMyMind
11-30-2007, 03:10 PM
Pass me a yodel.
Yodel or Yodler
Pastor G
11-30-2007, 03:11 PM
Actually, I know Larry Booker personally, who is on the board, and it is said to be a fellowship, not an orginazation. In which you can still carry any liscense to be apart of it. Have any of you talked to any of the men on this board, or is what your posting all secondhand information?
You refrained from saying "He said." So did your friend L.B. tell you that or is that secondhand info?
B_Kendrick
11-30-2007, 03:14 PM
LOL!!! Ok, ok! you caught me... man, your good!! HA HA! Well, I also heard it second hand, but it was from my dad, who was asked to be involved as the Head Quizmaster for Bible Quizzing.
Pastor G
11-30-2007, 03:16 PM
LOL!!! Ok, ok! you caught me... man, your good!! HA HA! Well, I also heard it second hand, but it was from my dad, who was asked to be involved as the Head Quizmaster for Bible Quizzing.
HMMMM trying to put one over on us huh? I doubt very seriously that a fellowship inside the UPC is going to have seperate Bible Quizzing.
dizzyde
11-30-2007, 03:19 PM
RM .... Integrity defined.
I've always thought so...
B_Kendrick
11-30-2007, 03:21 PM
Lol, tried is the correct word... Well, we are! Like I said, they asked my dad, but he declined only because he was too busy. I know it's going to happen, just I don't know who is going to take over the job of running it. But anyways, I know of people still in the Upc that will be involved with it too.
dizzyde
11-30-2007, 03:22 PM
HMMMM trying to put one over on us huh? I doubt very seriously that a fellowship inside the UPC is going to have seperate Bible Quizzing.
Fairly sure in any district, that would be a big no-no. And why on earth would you have separate ministries from what the organization that you belong to already provides?
Minister_WD
11-30-2007, 03:23 PM
Actually, I know Larry Booker personally, who is on the board, and it is said to be a fellowship, not an orginazation. In which you can still carry any liscense to be apart of it. Have any of you talked to any of the men on this board, or is what your posting all secondhand information?
I have a number of Pastor Friends who have been contacted and encouraged to join the new group(recruiting going on??),and It was indeed described just as Bro.Dan mentioned,an organization.
Why else would they be attempting to form all the new Departments and offer and assign positions for such?
StillStanding
11-30-2007, 03:25 PM
I have a number of Pastor Friends who have been contacted and encouraged to join the new group(recruiting going on??),and It was indeed described just as Bro.Dan mentioned,an organization.
Why else would they be attempting to form all the new Departments and offer and assign positions for such?
The promise of a political position is a nice carrot! :D
B_Kendrick
11-30-2007, 03:27 PM
Fairly sure in any district, that would be a big no-no. And why on earth would you have separate ministries from what the organization that you belong to already provides?
AM is in one with KP!
Minister_WD
11-30-2007, 03:28 PM
The promise of a political position is a nice carrot! :D
Indeed!
it's just amazing to me the denial that is still going on by some about all of this
RevDWW
11-30-2007, 03:30 PM
AM is in one with KP!
Jesus I know and AM I know, but who is KP?
B_Kendrick
11-30-2007, 03:34 PM
Jesus I know and AM I know, but who is KP?
Kenneth Phillips.
I have a number of Pastor Friends who have been contacted and encouraged to join the new group(recruiting going on??),and It was indeed described just as Bro.Dan mentioned,an organization.
Why else would they be attempting to form all the new Departments and offer and assign positions for such?
To play this fellowship semantical game ... is HILARIOUS in my book.
Will the new group file as a 503 non-profit ORGANIZATION ... is so it's an org. Will they be an organization that promotes ministerial fellowship ... LIKE THE UPCI ... ????
Fairly sure in any district, that would be a big no-no. And why on earth would you have separate ministries from what the organization that you belong to already provides?
because the other ones are NOT HOLY OR SPIRITUAL ENOUGH.
Kenneth Phillips.
Perhaps you are referring to the New Church Order ... I am unsure if AM is in the NCO ... other UPCI members are ... they do not license.
however the structure the new UC org/association/lodge/fellowship/secret order is offering is more like the UPCI rather than the NCO ...
the NCO has no divisions, departments, regional directors, GS, boards
dizzyde
11-30-2007, 03:41 PM
AM is in one with KP!
That has departments? Like bible quizzing, and youth, sunday school, etc...?
That has departments? Like bible quizzing, and youth, sunday school, etc...?
No, m'am ... the NCO is not structured in that manner ... the new UC org is cloning the UPCI w/ newer, holier faces.
dizzyde
11-30-2007, 03:43 PM
No, m'am ... the NCO is not structured in that manner ... the new UC org is cloning the UPCI w/ newer, holier faces.
That's what I thought.
To play this fellowship semantical game ... is HILARIOUS in my book.
Will the new group file as a 503 non-profit ORGANIZATION??? ... if so it's an org. Will they be an organization that promotes ministerial fellowship ... LIKE THE UPCI ... ????
bump for hermano Kendrick ... :donuts
Coonskinner
11-30-2007, 03:46 PM
They're defense ... seemed ho-hum ... this year ... just sending out one batter.
Either they thought they were in a lock for a win ... or it's as if they were subconsciously hoping for the resolution to pass.
Or they were sick of dealing with it every year, and didn't care to keep fighting it when someone would just bring it up again.
Or they were sick of dealing with it every year, and didn't care to keep fighting it when someone would just bring it up again.
So they got lazy protecting the bean patch??? Sounds like mediocrity.
Or maybe some BILs wanted the limelight???
Queryful
11-30-2007, 04:01 PM
I don't know about ya'll but all this alphabet soup of initials and acronyms is making me hungry!
And will someone please spell separate correctly?! Sorry, my English teacher just jumped up and made me say that.
pelathais
11-30-2007, 04:16 PM
I don't know about ya'll but all this alphabet soup of initials and acronyms is making me hungry!
And will someone please spell separate correctly?! Sorry, my English teacher just jumped up and made me say that.
superate?
meBNme
11-30-2007, 04:51 PM
JG and TLC are on the facilating committee ... for the new org ... MBM. Sponsors.
Now either they will hold dual membership ... which will be one of the options reportedly offered ... or be licensed by the new fellowship ... which would mean they can't hold a UPCI license, anymore.
So in other words, Yes it is all speculation, gossip and hearsay, and no, nothing about them leaving has been proven or confirmed.
Thanks for clarifying that.
meBNme
11-30-2007, 04:54 PM
The UPCI is a fellowship HG .. we can play semantics all we want...
this new non-for-profit ORGANIZATION ...
WILL BE LICENSING ... AND OFFERING NON-LICENSE MEMBERSHIP.[/B]
Has this been proven or is it all just....... well, you know
Also, if one chooses to get the non liscensing membership, is that a vilation of the agreement?
So in other words, Yes it is all speculation, gossip and hearsay, and no, nothing about them leaving has been proven or confirmed.
Thanks for clarifying that.
Vaughn Morton's departure is documented and the departure of most of the sponsors is corroborated on both sides ...
This nothing is "proven or confirmed" argument holds little water ... denial will not stop what's happening.
John 8 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+8)
17It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
Surely there is no charter to refer to as to how the new org will be formed .. we'll have the docs in Jan. I'm sure .... but cons on the forum who are in the know and are involved have shared some info as to how the org will work.
Let me guess ... some of you here still think the world is flat.
PastorD
11-30-2007, 07:01 PM
Perhaps you are referring to the New Church Order ... I am unsure if AM is in the NCO ... other UPCI members are ... they do not license.
however the structure the new UC org/association/lodge/fellowship/secret order is offering is more like the UPCI rather than the NCO ...
the NCO has no divisions, departments, regional directors, GS, boards
Didn't you know we are all in the NCO? If you have every looked at their website they captured your name, claimed you as a number and WON'T stop emailing me!
meBNme
11-30-2007, 09:04 PM
Vaughn Morton's departure is documented and the departure of most of the sponsors is corroborated on both sides ...
This nothing is "proven or confirmed" argument holds little water ... denial will not stop what's happening.
Yeah, and neither will speculation and rumors.
John 8 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+8)
17It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
Oh my stars and garters! i know you didn't just use that scripture for this!
DA, Have you read the surrounding scriptures? Man, that's so out of context, its like quoting "Jesus wept" and using it to claim he was a crybaby wimp, and therefore we all should cry four times a day. Unbelievable.
You just discredited yourself Bro. And you had me thinking higher of you than that.
Surely there is no charter to refer to as to how the new org will be formed .. we'll have the docs in Jan. I'm sure .... but cons on the forum who are in the know and are involved have shared some info as to how the org will work.
Let me guess ... some of you here still think the world is flat.
[/SIZE]
D man, Did I ever deny that people are leaving?
Or did you take my question and assume (Perhaps by stereotyping? I dunno) that i was denying it?
I simply am disgusted by all of the speculation, gossip, rumors, murmuring, assumptions, and accusations that have been flooding this forum like a backed up sewer main spewing sludge all over the kitchen floor.
So I question comments Like the one you made here.
All I did was ask if there was any proof in the pudding or was it all bunk.
I did not claim any of it was untrue, in fact, I asked if it was actually factual truth or no.
Personally, I think everyone of us should be asking that of threads/posts like this. But some folks just thrive on the gutter sludge that is so prevalent in gossip. I rarely even visit certain threads or some members comments. But yours usually have substance, and some sense. Whether I agree or not doesn't matter. So yes, I questioned your content, and comments.
I am surprised and disappointed that you responded in the manner that you did.
So in other words, Yes it is all speculation, gossip and hearsay, and no, nothing about them leaving has been proven or confirmed.
Thanks for clarifying that.
Yeah, and neither will speculation and rumors.
[/size]
Oh my stars and garters! i know you didn't just use that scripture for this!
DA, Have you read the surrounding scriptures? Man, that's so out of context, its like quoting "Jesus wept" and using it to claim he was a crybaby wimp, and therefore we all should cry four times a day. Unbelievable.
You just discredited yourself Bro. And you had me thinking higher of you than that.
D man, Did I ever deny that people are leaving?
Or did you take my question and assume (Perhaps by stereotyping? I dunno) that i was denying it?
I simply am disgusted by all of the speculation, gossip, rumors, murmuring, assumptions, and accusations that have been flooding this forum like a backed up sewer main spewing sludge all over the kitchen floor.
So I question comments Like the one you made here.
All I did was ask if there was any proof in the pudding or was it all bunk.
I did not claim any of it was untrue, in fact, I asked if it was actually factual truth or no.
Personally, I think everyone of us should be asking that of threads/posts like this. But some folks just thrive on the gutter sludge that is so prevalent in gossip. I rarely even visit certain threads or some members comments. But yours usually have substance, and some sense. Whether I agree or not doesn't matter. So yes, I questioned your content, and comments.
I am surprised and disappointed that you responded in the manner that you did.
Sir, your posting in this thread is an oxymoron waiting to happen ...
Can you clarify this ... cause it's making my head spin ....
I did not claim any of it was untrue, in fact, I asked if it was actually factual truth or no.as opposed to UNFACTUAL TRUTH?
OKAY ????? UM .... HERE'S SOME FACTUAL SUBSTANTIATED PROOF THAT PERHAPS IN A FEW YEARS MAY CONFIRM OR PROVE SOMEBODY IS LEAVING/DEPARTING/GOING TO THE ULTRA-CON ORG.
ALL WE'VE STATED IS THAT SOME ARE LEAVING AND FORMING A LOOSE FELLOWSHIP ... AGAIN SOME OF THE FURTHER DETAILS ABOUT THE FORMATION ARE BEING CORROBORATED ON BOTH SIDES .... LAST I LOOKED COURTS OF LAW USE CORROBORATING CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE AS PROOF.
IT MAY REQUIRE HOWEVER ... SOMETHING WE LIKE TO CALL AN INFERENCE.
SURELY YOU WOULDN'T CONSIDER THE TESTIMONY OF NOTED CONS LIKE DEAN'S AND COONSKINNER'S ASSERTIONS THAT THE ORG WILL BE OFFERING LICENSES AND MEMBERSHIP ... LIES OR UNFACTUAL TRUTH? WOULD YA?
I understand that they will be offering two levels of membership--licensing for those who desire it, and a fellowship level association for those who do not.
The second will NOT be a 'license' for an organization but a 'fellowship card' for a ministerial fellowship.
http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=694&d=1195934599
http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=695&d=1195934661
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a77/OldPath/ApostolicSummit2.jpg
I'VE NEVER UNDERSTOOD SOME FOLKS IN PENTECOST .... I'VE HEARD OF DISTRICT BOARDS THAT WON'T CONVICT A MINISTER FOR IMMORALITY BECAUSE THERE IS NO VIDEO .... I SUSPECT THAT EVEN IF THERE WAS A VIDEO ... SOME WOULD REQUIRE THE PLAYERS IN THE VIDEO TO PROVIDE ID'S IN IT.
pelathais
12-01-2007, 03:16 AM
Yeah, and neither will speculation and rumors.
[/size]
Oh my stars and garters! i know you didn't just use that scripture for this!
DA, Have you read the surrounding scriptures? Man, that's so out of context, its like quoting "Jesus wept" and using it to claim he was a crybaby wimp, and therefore we all should cry four times a day. Unbelievable.
You just discredited yourself Bro. And you had me thinking higher of you than that.
D man, Did I ever deny that people are leaving?
Or did you take my question and assume (Perhaps by stereotyping? I dunno) that i was denying it?
I simply am disgusted by all of the speculation, gossip, rumors, murmuring, assumptions, and accusations that have been flooding this forum like a backed up sewer main spewing sludge all over the kitchen floor.
So I question comments Like the one you made here.
All I did was ask if there was any proof in the pudding or was it all bunk.
I did not claim any of it was untrue, in fact, I asked if it was actually factual truth or no.
Personally, I think everyone of us should be asking that of threads/posts like this. But some folks just thrive on the gutter sludge that is so prevalent in gossip. I rarely even visit certain threads or some members comments. But yours usually have substance, and some sense. Whether I agree or not doesn't matter. So yes, I questioned your content, and comments.
I am surprised and disappointed that you responded in the manner that you did.
MBM, there is an ongoing effort by a relatively small number of men to try and create a bigger snowball effect. I have spoken to only a couple of guys that are leaving the UPC and my contact is somewhat limited because I haven't run with that crowd for many years. But they want very much to see 1,000's of ministers leave.
I remember hearing the man who authored the 1992 AS resolution saying at that time, "Every now and then every movement needs a bowel movement..." There are others on this board who heard the same statement.
Ironically, after likening their own brethren to excrement in those terms some are now happily exiting themselves. You are commendable in wanting to give every benefit of the doubt to men that you hold as brothers. But be wary, not all of them consider you a brother. And in their private conversations you may be something far worse.
But don't take my word for it. Ask them yourself. The coordinators have stated from the start that they want to form a new org in Tulsa. There may be logistical and political obstacles but they are prepared to keep working until they an org can be formed that suits their needs.
Mainly it has to have elected offices for everyone who lost a tight election in the UPC. That, and something about shirt sleeves.
Joseph Miller
12-01-2007, 03:25 AM
MBM, there is an ongoing effort by a relatively small number of men to try and create a bigger snowball effect. I have spoken to only a couple of guys that are leaving the UPC and my contact is somewhat limited because I haven't run with that crowd for many years. But they want very much to see 1,000's of ministers leave.
I remember hearing the man who authored the 1992 AS resolution saying at that time, "Every now and then every movement needs a bowel movement..." There are others on this board who heard the same statement.
Ironically, after likening their own brethren to excrement in those terms some are now happily exiting themselves. You are commendable in wanting to give every benefit of the doubt to men that you hold as brothers. But be wary, not all of them consider you a brother. And in their private conversations you may be something far worse.
But don't take my word for it. Ask them yourself.
They wish 1000s would leave, at 2000 since they have rented a place that will hold that, but I pray they are supprised at the FEW which show up.
If you consider someone your brother you will not refer to them as the person you quoted did. That only shows that person WRONG attitude. There is no way for them to defend that statement. That certainly is not the way we feel about them leaving.
.
I remember hearing the man who authored the 1992 AS resolution saying at that time, "Every now and then every movement needs a bowel movement..." There are others on this board who heard the same statement.
Ironically, after likening their own brethren to excrement in those terms some are now happily exiting themselves. You are commendable in wanting to give every benefit of the doubt to men that you hold as brothers. But be wary, not all of them consider you a brother. And in their private conversations you may be something far worse. .
Surely the bowel movement quote is unfactual truth. But is there proof in the pudding?
All I did was ask if there was any proof in the pudding or was it all bunk.
I did not claim any of it was untrue, in fact, I asked if it was actually factual truth or no.
:donuts :bliss
ChicagoPastor
12-01-2007, 07:28 AM
Didn't you know we are all in the NCO? If you have every looked at their website they captured your name, claimed you as a number and WON'T stop emailing me!
NOT TRUE.
You have to give them your email address to get on the mailing list.
If you didn't do it, someone else entered your email addy for you.
I repeat
THEY WILL NOT EMAIL YOU JUST BECAUSE YOU WENT AND LOOKED AT THE WEBSITE, that is simply not true
BoredOutOfMyMind
12-01-2007, 10:43 AM
I'VE NEVER UNDERSTOOD SOME FOLKS IN PENTECOST .... I'VE HEARD OF DISTRICT BOARDS THAT WON'T CONVICT A MINISTER FOR IMMORALITY BECAUSE THERE IS NO VIDEO .... I SUSPECT THAT EVEN IF THERE WAS A VIDEO ... SOME WOULD REQUIRE THE PLAYERS IN THE VIDEO TO PROVIDE ID'S IN IT.
[/B]
Use of all caps is considered shouting.
:bubble
BoredOutOfMyMind
12-01-2007, 10:44 AM
So in other words, Yes it is all speculation, gossip and hearsay, and no, nothing about them leaving has been proven or confirmed.
Thanks for clarifying that.
Don't say you confused Hype with Facts and dispelled Rumor again!
:groan
Brother Price
12-01-2007, 11:09 AM
May I ask why the focus on so many men leaving the UPC? If they leave, let them. If they stay, let them. The thing is that we need to continue in the work of evangelizing the lost and leading them to Christ.
I am sad to see such a division. I hope it is more hype than actuality, but I fear it is not so.
Sir, your posting in this thread is an oxymoron waiting to happen ...
Can you clarify this ... cause it's making my head spin ....
as opposed to UNFACTUAL TRUTH?
OKAY ????? UM .... HERE'S SOME FACTUAL SUBSTANTIATED PROOF THAT PERHAPS IN A FEW YEARS MAY CONFIRM OR PROVE SOMEBODY IS LEAVING/DEPARTING/GOING TO THE ULTRA-CON ORG.
ALL WE'VE STATED IS THAT SOME ARE LEAVING AND FORMING A LOOSE FELLOWSHIP ... AGAIN SOME OF THE FURTHER DETAILS ABOUT THE FORMATION ARE BEING CORROBORATED ON BOTH SIDES .... LAST I LOOKED COURTS OF LAW USE CORROBORATING CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE AS PROOF.
IT MAY REQUIRE HOWEVER ... SOMETHING WE LIKE TO CALL AN INFERENCE.
SURELY YOU WOULDN'T CONSIDER THE TESTIMONY OF NOTED CONS LIKE DEAN'S AND COONSKINNER'S ASSERTIONS THAT THE ORG WILL BE OFFERING LICENSES AND MEMBERSHIP ... LIES OR UNFACTUAL TRUTH? WOULD YA?
http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=694&d=1195934599
http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=695&d=1195934661
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I'VE NEVER UNDERSTOOD SOME FOLKS IN PENTECOST .... I'VE HEARD OF DISTRICT BOARDS THAT WON'T CONVICT A MINISTER FOR IMMORALITY BECAUSE THERE IS NO VIDEO .... I SUSPECT THAT EVEN IF THERE WAS A VIDEO ... SOME WOULD REQUIRE THE PLAYERS IN THE VIDEO TO PROVIDE ID'S IN IT.
MBM, there is an ongoing effort by a relatively small number of men to try and create a bigger snowball effect. I have spoken to only a couple of guys that are leaving the UPC and my contact is somewhat limited because I haven't run with that crowd for many years. But they want very much to see 1,000's of ministers leave.
I remember hearing the man who authored the 1992 AS resolution saying at that time, "Every now and then every movement needs a bowel movement..." There are others on this board who heard the same statement.
Ironically, after likening their own brethren to excrement in those terms some are now happily exiting themselves. You are commendable in wanting to give every benefit of the doubt to men that you hold as brothers. But be wary, not all of them consider you a brother. And in their private conversations you may be something far worse.
But don't take my word for it. Ask them yourself. The coordinators have stated from the start that they want to form a new org in Tulsa. There may be logistical and political obstacles but they are prepared to keep working until they an org can be formed that suits their needs.
Mainly it has to have elected offices for everyone who lost a tight election in the UPC. That, and something about shirt sleeves.
BUMP
meBNme
12-01-2007, 02:27 PM
DA, I will certainly get to it Bro. (that and a few others) To many things going on at once right now.
dizzyde
12-01-2007, 09:46 PM
DA, just a note on the beginning topic, I did ask someone that was on the committee yesterday about the alleged agreement to stay regardless of the outcome of the vote. He said he has no knowledge of such an agreement, no one ever said that to him. Just FYI, since you were asking if it had in fact been a requirement.
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