An Apostolic Ministry Dealing With Mormonism?

[TRFrance]

I need some help here, folks.

Every website I've ever seen that exposes the falsehoods of Mormon doctrine is coming from an Evangelical/Trinitarian doctrinal perspective.

Does anyone know of any Apostolic ministry or website that deals with Mormon doctrine from an Apostolic point of view? I'm looking for a site that either exclusively deals with Mormonism, or if not, one that at least has a good amount of resources on the topic, that I can refer someone to.

Any help is appreciated.

[commonsense]

I don't know of any sites, but in the 60's Bro Sabin did a lot of teaching on mormonism and how to deal with it. He gave us lots of the historical background on it .
My feeble brain cells did not retain much of it .

[SDG]

I don't know of any ... either.

However, some OP's hold various doctrines and practices in common w/ Mormons. Among them are:

1. Doctrine of Baptismal Regeneration
2. Proper administration of baptism mitigates salvation
3. Apostasy brought an end to Apostolic doctrine being taught, after the 1st century, and it was restored within the last 2 centuries.

[TRFrance]

I don't know of any sites, but in the 60's Bro Sabin did a lot of teaching on mormonism and how to deal with it. He gave us lots of the historical background on it .
My feeble brain cells did not retain much of it .

Thanks, buddy.
Do you know if Sabin has a website for his ministry?



I don't know of any ... either.

However, some OP's hold various doctrines and practices in common w/ Mormons. Among them are:

1. Doctrine of Baptismal Regeneration
2. Proper administration of baptism mitigates salvation
3. Apostasy brought an end to Apostolic doctrine being taught, after the 1st century, and it was restored within the last 2 centuries.

Daniel...
Spare me, ok?
You seem to relish every opportunity you get to bash various OP doctrines.

This thread has nothing to do with that, so I'd appreciate if you keep that foolishness off this thread if you don't mind.

Lets just stay on topic of we can.


.

[SDG]

Thanks, buddy.
Do you know if Sabin has a website for his ministry?





Daniel...
Spare me, ok?
You seem to relish every opportunity you get to bash various OP doctrines.

This thread has nothing to do with that, so I'd appreciate if you keep that foolishness off this thread if you don't mind.

Lets just stay on topic of we can.


.

Just pointing out the OBVIOUS ... Carry on.

:santathumb

[TRFrance]

Well maybe if its as "OBVIOUS" as you say, there's no need to even go there.

Anyway... Carry on, sir.
:whistle

[Pastor Keith]

I need some help here, folks.

Every website I've ever seen that exposes the falsehoods of Mormon doctrine is coming from an Evangelical/Trinitarian doctrinal perspective.

Does anyone know of any Apostolic ministry or website that deals with Mormon doctrine from an Apostolic point of view? I'm looking for a site that either exclusively deals with Mormonism, or if not, one that at least has a good amount of resources on the topic, that I can refer someone to.

Any help is appreciated.

I have to do some digging, but when I was working for HM at the 92 SLC GC, I had some documentation and information that you can teach the Apostolic Doctrine right out of the book of Mormon, never have to open the Bible. I will see what I can dig up out of the vast archives in my garage.

[SDG]

Here is a site that Robert Sabin has contributed to ... it's apparently run by one of his students ... most of the pieces are the Oneness of God.

http://www.whoisjesus.com/intro.html

[TRFrance]

Here is a site that Robert Sabin has contributed to ... it's apparently run by one of his students ... most of the pieces are the Oneness of God.

http://www.whoisjesus.com/intro.html

Thank you sir.
I didn't find any specific Mormon-related stuff, but I appreciate the link anyway.

[Jack Shephard]

I need some help here, folks.

Every website I've ever seen that exposes the falsehoods of Mormon doctrine is coming from an Evangelical/Trinitarian doctrinal perspective.

Does anyone know of any Apostolic ministry or website that deals with Mormon doctrine from an Apostolic point of view? I'm looking for a site that either exclusively deals with Mormonism, or if not, one that at least has a good amount of resources on the topic, that I can refer someone to.

Any help is appreciated.

Just a though- have you thought about taking some of the 'trinitarian' stuff and placing more oneness verses with them? I am sure that you might be able to do that. Also, there are some good books out there about leaving the mormon faith with it being to preachy for either trinitarian and oneness. The truth is I do not know of any strictly apostolic stuff out there. I am sure there is. I know a prominent memeber of the POA was once mormon, they might have info on it. Maybe you can contact some of the Apostolic churches in Utah to see if they have any, or just make it yourself. It seems there is not a huge amount of this info out there. If you study and come up with yourself you might make a lot of money too!!!:santathumb

[TRFrance]

Just a though- have you thought about taking some of the 'trinitarian' stuff and placing more oneness verses with them? I am sure that you might be able to do that. Also, there are some good books out there about leaving the Mormon faith with it being to preachy for either trinitarian and oneness. The truth is I do not know of any strictly apostolic stuff out there. I am sure there is. I know a prominent member of the POA was once mormon, they might have info on it.

I actually have a couple of good books on the topic I highly recommend ("The God Makers", and "Mormons Answered Verse by Verse"). But in today's online world, it would be nice to have a website I can refer someone to, that will both A) debunk the Mormon "gospel" and B) proclaim the true Acts 2:38 gospel at the same time.

Also, do you remember the name of that POA person who was a Mormon before?

Maybe you can contact some of the Apostolic churches in Utah to see if they have any.

Very good idea! I'll try to contact some of the UPC's in Salt Lake City.

... or just make it yourself.

I may just end up doing that one day.

It seems there is not a huge amount of this info out there. If you study and come up with yourself you might make a lot of money too!!!

Yes, I'm actually looking to become quite rich from this. Not rich in $$$ , but in rich in souls !! :thumbsup


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[BoredOutOfMyMind]

PPH had a booklet in the late 70's that was good in this area. I lent mine to a man who never returned it and it is sadly out of print.

In the plagarism called the Book of Mormon, Smith quoted Jesus Name baptisms. Logical, since that is the ONLY way the Bible describes baptism. Interesting to read it IN the Book of Mormon.

[TRFrance]

PPH had a booklet in the late 70's that was good in this area. I lent mine to a man who never returned it and it is sadly out of print.

In the plagarism called the Book of Mormon, Smith quoted Jesus Name baptisms. Logical, since that is the ONLY way the Bible describes baptism. Interesting to read it IN the Book of Mormon.

Yes i remember reading that and decided to look into it. I was surprised how many verses in the Book of Mormon actually speak on this issue. I guess its one of the few things we will readily agree with them on.Morm. 9: 29

See that ye are not baptized unworthily; see that ye partake not of the sacrament of Christ unworthily; but see that ye do all things in worthiness, and do it in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God; and if ye do this, and endure to the end, ye will in nowise be cast out.

3 Ne. 26: 17, 21
17 And it came to pass that the disciples whom Jesus had chosen began from that time forth to baptize and to teach as many as did come unto them; and as many as were baptized in the name of Jesus were filled with the Holy Ghost.

21 And they who were baptized in the name of Jesus were called the church of Christ.

3 Ne. 27: 1
1 And it came to pass that as the disciples of Jesus were journeying and were preaching the things which they had both heard and seen, and were baptizing in the name of Jesus, it came to pass that the disciples were gathered together and were united in mighty prayer and fasting.

4 Ne. 1: 1
1 And it came to pass that the thirty and fourth year passed away, and also the thirty and fifth, and behold the disciples of Jesus had formed a church of Christ in all the lands round about. And as many as did come unto them, and did truly repent of their sins, were baptized in the name of Jesus; and they did also receive the Holy Ghost.

Morm. 7: 8
8 Therefore repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus, and lay hold upon the gospel of Christ, which shall be set before you,
I find it interesting that a Mormon would agree with you on Jesus name baptism, but many Trinitarian pentecostals will fight you tooth-and-nail on this same issue.


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[BoredOutOfMyMind]

I find it interesting that a Mormon would agree with you on Jesus name baptism, but many Trinitarian pentecostals will fight you tooth-and-nail on this same issue.




Is there really a Trinitarian church goer who understands the Trinity? To them denying the Trinity is denying the Father, for they don't understand it. To the scholars however....

My Father in law said they are not worshipping 3 gods. They worship One God and Two Idols.

(that would be a seperate thread subject than Mormonism)

[SDG]

Is there really a Trinitarian church goer who understands the Trinity? To them denying the Trinity is denying the Father, for they don't understand it. To the scholars however....

My Father in law said they are not worshipping 3 gods. They worship One God and Two Idols.

(that would be a seperate thread subject than Mormonism)

Ironically, Trinitarians lob the same accusation at Mormons ... THAT MORMONS BELIEVE IN THREE GODS ...

FROM CARM .... COMPARISON BETWEEN CHRISTIANITY VS. MORMONISM.

------------------------

TRINITY -

CHRISTIANITY:

The Trinity (http://www.carm.org/doctrine/trinity.htm)is the doctrine that there is only one God in all the universe and that He exists in three, eternal, simultaneous persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

MORMONISM:

The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35.)


http://www.carm.org/lds/compare.htm

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

The Trinity (http://www.carm.org/doctrine/trinity.htm)is the doctrine that there is only one God in all the universe and that He exists in three, eternal, simultaneous persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.



So persons and manifestations is different to some?

[SDG]

So persons and manifestations is different to some?

BOOM ... many Trinitarians don't define persons as we define it for them.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

BOOM ... many Trinitarians don't define persons as we define it for them.

True-

[TRFrance]

Well, I know I gonna be veering off topic a bit with this but.. to answer your question:

So persons and manifestations is different to some?

Sure. What we call manifestations or offices of one God, they see as 3 different persons within a unified Godhead.

The "manifestations" vs. "persons" thing is not the only dividing issue here. The other 2 key issue are is the eternal pre-existence of the Son (as opposed tot he begotten nature of the Son) , and the personhood of the Holy Ghost.

First, we understand from scripture that the Son was brought forth into being (begotten) at a particular point in time for the purpose of redeeming man. They say the Son always existed, that is to say He and eternally pre-existed before God even made the universe.

Here's the problem: Logically and rationally, one can't be "begotten" (which implies a particular moment of being brought into being) and "eternally pre-existent" at the same time. Not a problem for the Trinitarians. They simply came up with the bizarre and inherently contradictory doctrine that the son was "eternally begotten"!! (convenient, huh?). When asked how one can be eternally begotten, well, they have an answer for that too -- "Its a mystery" !!


Second, we recognize that the Holy Spirit is simply the Spirit of God (aka "God our Father", etc) . Many scriptures bear that out, of course. God is holy. God is spirit. God's very nature is "holy spirit". Pretty basic stuff. But since they're predisposed to think of God in triadic terms, Trinitarians have a huge blind spot there.

The selfsame entity is referred to in scripture as "The Spirit", "The Holy Spirit", "The Spirit of God", "The Spirit of the Lord", "The Spirit of the Father", etc . Its all one and the same, of course, but Trinitarianism takes the "Spirit of the Father" to be different from "The Holy Spirit" , and makes them into separate divine persons of their "Trinity" , in order to fit into their 3 person formula.

Hence, in their theology this is what we end up with...
with the "'Spirit" (3rd person)...now being a divine "person" distinct from "the Father" (1st Person)...and the begotten Son now being the "eternally pre-existent "God the Son" (2nd person)...

VOILA!! We have a Trinity!! ...comprised of the 1st , 2nd, and 3rd [eternally distinct] persons of the Godhead.

...this of course, is something neither Paul nor any other New Testament writer ever taught.


.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

TRFrance, I tried to prevent it, but you threadjacked your own thread!

:hijacked

[Jack Shephard]

Yes, I'm actually looking to become quite rich from this. Not rich in $$$ , but in rich in souls !! :thumbsup


.

On the road to being soul-rich it does not hurt to be piggy-bank-rich too:horn


I live in a place where there is a very high concentration of LDS-Mormons. They are not totally correct in doctrine, but I would not call them a cult anymore than I would call the UPCI a cult. Because I know sooooo many of them it is tough to say that. It has gotten that kinda rap over the years, but most of them are the best people you will meet.

Most of the churches in the area here do not have anti-mormon info either which is very shocking. I think the most important thing I think in reaching them is not showing them how wrong they are, but showing the common ground we have and building a solid relationship on that. Most ex-mormons I know did not all of a sudden start to believe the apostolic message. They see the middle ground and then ask about why we are differ and then they learn about the HG. That is how most of the ex-mormons that are in the apostolic church have come in. Most LDS members know the Bible very very well.

I think that most people that want to reach souls want to reach them yesterday and almost do not give God time to work on their hearts. There are not too many converts I know of that just came in after one service or Bible study. God works on people in His time as you know. I think mormons are some of the toughest to reach because they know alot of Bible.

Good Luck, Bro!:santathumb

[TRFrance]

TRFrance, I tried to prevent it, but you threadjacked your own thread!

:hijacked


I know, I know!!

I was trying to stop myself from falling...over...the...cliff, but i just...couldn't...help it!!

*loud wailing sound*

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:



:p



.

[embonpoint]

PPH had a booklet in the late 70's that was good in this area. I lent mine to a man who never returned it and it is sadly out of print.

In the plagarism called the Book of Mormon, Smith quoted Jesus Name baptisms. Logical, since that is the ONLY way the Bible describes baptism. Interesting to read it IN the Book of Mormon.

I have one somewhere. It was written by Sabin as I recall. It pointed out many incosistencies in the BOM. Seems like it was called "Mormonism Fact or Fiction," or something similar, but my memory ain't what it used to be. If I find it I will post the info.

[TRFrance]

Found a good video on the topic here.
Its long, (1 hr 7 min) but good stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1mFdO1wB08

"The Bible vs. The Book of Mormon"
G1mFdO1wB08

[mizpeh]

I think RevDWW goes to POA maybe he can hook you up with the name or email of the exMormon.

Also, do you remember the name of that POA person who was a Mormon before?

[RevDWW]

I think RevDWW goes to POA maybe he can hook you up with the name or email of the exMormon.

I don't know off hand who the ex-morman would be?