*** Poll: Does all scripture point to Acts 2:38? ****

[SDG]

Does all scripture point to Acts 2:38 .... or does it point to Christ and the work of the Lamb at the Cross?

I've heard a few in forumland say that believe all scripture does point to Acts 2:38.

This is part of a discussion on this matter that took place in one of the Fudge threads.

Before you decide to defend your doctrinal position ... whether one, two, three, or 14 steps. Think this one through.

Tell us why you hold your view.


A fundamental difference, indeed. Acts 2:38 should point to the Cross.

The water/spirit position has unfortunately assumed that the cross's work climaxes in a "plan" found in Acts 2:38. It incorrectly takes the position that the Cross points to Acts 2:38. In reality, the plan of salvation was hanging on the cross.

The Cross does not point to a saving formula in Acts 2:38; Acts 2:38 should point to the saving work of the Cross.

One problem I have with the water/Spirit doctrine is that this view simply doesn't represent what actually happens in a person's life when they look to Jesus Christ for salvation. I agree that the message of Acts 2:38 points back to the cross. I don't need to die, be buried and rise again. I need to accept by faith that Jesus died, was buried and rose again on my behalf. Repentance, water baptism, and the baptism of the Holy Ghost is my way of identifying with and being empowered by what was accomplished for me at Calvary.

The two views(PCI and PAJC) IMHO represent a difference between where one places the emphasis. Do we place the emphasis on what Jesus Christ did to save us or emphasize what we do to save ourselves? Peter's message on the Day of Pentecost emphasized Jesus Christ and what He accomplished. Acts 2:38 was very simply the altar call not the message that was preached. PAJCers make Acts 2:38 THE MESSAGE. Paul and Peter both made the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ THE MESSAGE.


I've often wondered about the element of sympathetic magic at work here.



"Sympathetic magic (http://skepdic.com/sympathetic.html)" was a practice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympathetic_magic) among many cultures where if a person wanted something, they had to do something similar. For example, if a wife wanted a baby but seemed to not be able to conceive, she would still dress up in maternity garb and act as if she were pregnant.

In the Bible we also find "examples," though many would obviously object to the association. When Jacob wanted "ringstraked and speckled" cattle, he carved the bark off of branches of wood to make the branches "ringstraked and speckled" (Genesis 30:31-43 and Genesis 32:1-12). When an iron axe head fell into the water, sank and was lost, Elisha spread wood over the site and the iron floated as if it were wood (2 Kings 6:1-7). These could be examples of "sympathetic magic."

We might also say that the so called "magic hair" doctrine is another example among some Oneness folks. When you want your prayers to get the attention of angels and heaven itself, why not put your prayers down on paper and mingle the paper with a woman's uncut hair? Sympathetic magic.

What of baptism? Why are to be "buried with Christ" in the waters of baptism, so that as Christ rose from the dead, so also will God quicken our mortal bodies. There is an obvious identification with Christ that comes through Christian baptism, particularly baptism in Jesus Name. Are some wanting to carry that act of identification forward to the point where it is no longer an act of identification, but it becomes a form of sympathetic magic?

And remember, I haven't even ruled out the possibility that sympathetic magic can at times be valid. I'm just wondering how far are we comfortable in carrying this point about water baptism? Is it "magic?"


Christ's work was finished on the cross. The Lamb was slain and the blood of atonement was shed. The price for our sin was paid. If we leave it there then what does it accomplish? Without faith in that sacrifice and repentance (change of mind that leads us to turn away from darkness and sin to God) Christ sacrifice would be fruitless. Our repentance is a type of dying to sin and to our old sinful lifestyle..the old man dies. Baptism is a type of burial of the body of the sins of the flesh and being filled with the Spirit a type of resurrection in which we rise in newness of life. We have the life of God in us. It's more than a symbolic association with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. There are actual Spiritual processes taking place. The work is the Spirit's. It's the process of new birth. God is birthing us not we ourselves as many would have us to believe. That we are saving ourselves apart from the cross, the blood, and the Spirit.

Now this is the part that none of you have been able to explain from the scriptures except in abstract concepts or figures of speech.

When do we receive the Spirit of Christ? What does the Bible say?

When are our sins remitted/washed away? What does the Bible say?

The Spirit of God is involved in water baptism directly performing an act of circumcision see Romans 2:28-29 NASB and Colossians 2:11-12. The Spirit of God fills us, baptizes us in His ownself. We receive the gift of the Spirit by faith (the means is faith) when our hearts are made right through repentance.

Explain if you will why after our new birth, if and when we sin, we are advised to confess our sins and the blood of Jesus Christ will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I'm assuming you do not take this literally. But there is a washing available even after our initial cleansing when our sins were first remitted.

I guess my experience influences my thoughts on this subject as well. When I was baptized in Jesus name, I felt clean on the inside and while under the water I had an overwhelming sense of peace with God. Something happens spiritually when we are baptized.


One of the things I enjoy most about a oneness pentecostal service is the Christocentric worship. I wish the doctrine was just as Christ centered.

Thoughts, comments, etc????

[Brother Price]

I think something Bro. Blume put on the front page of his site is about as truthful as I can find on this subject...

Everything surrounds the work of the cross -- Identity With Christ, Victorious Living, and even correct understanding of Prophecy.

[RevDWW]

If all scripture points to Jesus, and Acts 2:38 is scripture, then Acts2:38 points to Jesus. (Simple logic)

Peter's message on the day of Pentecost pointed to Jesus and His death, burial, and resurrection, the fulfilling of the Gospel message. When those gathered heard it and wanted to know how to be a part or have part in the Gospel what did Peter tell them? It's not rocket science is it? It so simple, yet some want to make it so hard and confusingly incomprehensible.

The Old testament was a continual pointing to coming revelation of Jesus. The Books of the Gospel are the revelation of His earthly incarnation. The book of Acts is the revelation that He will inhabit man. The Epistles a guide book for His church to bring the revelation of the Love of Christ to the world they inhabit. The Book of Revelation is the revelation of Jesus in His supernatural Power and Authority and the triumph of His Church, His Bride, through Himself.

How do you become a part of the Church? Acts 2 seems to lay it out clear enough that at least three thousand souls were added to the Church on the day of it's birth.

[Dedicated Mind]

Acts 2:38 is the most important verse in the entire bible.

Peter had the keys to the kingdom.

The day of Pentecost was the 1st day of the New Tesament church.

Acts 2:38 is the response to every NT sinner that wants to be saved.

What scripture is more important than Acts 2:38???????????????

[mizpeh]

Acts 2:38 is the most important verse in the entire bible.

Peter had the keys to the kingdom.

The day of Pentecost was the 1st day of the New Tesament church.

Acts 2:38 is the response to every NT sinner that wants to be saved.

What scripture is more important than Acts 2:38???????????????

Acts 2:38 is nothing without faith in Christ.

It's difficult to limit the Bible to which one scripture is the most important. It can't be done.

Jesus pointed to the Shema....hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.


But if we are only discussing salvation then I'd go with John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

[Ferd]

Acts 2:38 is nothing without faith in Christ.

It's difficult to limit the Bible to which one scripture is the most important. It can't be done. Jesus pointed to the Shema....hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord. But if we are only discussing salvation then I'd go with John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

doesnt that go without saying? How can one repent unless one knows whom they have transgressed?

[SDG]

doesnt that go without saying? How can one repent unless one knows whom they have transgressed?

Which way did you vote, Ferd?

[Ferd]

Which way did you vote, Ferd?

I didnt Dan. it is a silly poll.

[mizpeh]

doesnt that go without saying? How can one repent unless one knows whom they have transgressed?

Not for those who believe we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. They stop here and some don't go much farther. Acts 2:38 is not salvational just extra commandments to identify with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. When these men were pricked in their hearts (convicted) by faith (they believed what Peter preached or they would not have been convicted), then and only then after believing were they able to repent, and be baptized unto the remission of sins (not because their sins had been remitted), and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Anyways, all I'm saying is faith comes first and to some it stops there.

[mizpeh]

Which way did you vote, Ferd?

I didn't vote either, Dan.

[Darcie]

Oh please! the whole bible point to one verse, no way! How does Song of Solomon point to Acts 2:38?

[SDG]

I didn't vote either, Dan.
That's too bad .... I hope that it wasn't because you'd have to agree w/ me.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

John 11:35 Jesus Wept

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Oh please! the whole bible point to one verse, no way! How does Song of Solomon point to Acts 2:38?

It does not for some.

[Ferd]

Not for those who believe we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. They stop here and some don't go much farther. Acts 2:38 is not salvational just extra commandments to identify with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. When these men were pricked in their hearts (convicted) by faith (they believed what Peter preached or they would not have been convicted), then and only then after believing were they able to repent, and be baptized unto the remission of sins (not because their sins had been remitted), and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Anyways, all I'm saying is faith comes first and to some it stops there.

I think we agree.

[Scott Hutchinson]

I find it intersting that when the NT. church began at Pentecost Peter gave his altar call like he did.
Christ is the center and central message of the Bible.

[Ferd]

This thread is a misdirection. someone got all excited and said something that over stepped regarding Acts 2:38.

the notion that all of scripture points to Acts 2:38 is somehow the official position of the UPCI or the "PAJC" portion of the UPCI is just silly.

[Nahum]

Stupid thread.

[SDG]

This thread is a misdirection. someone got all excited and said something that over stepped regarding Acts 2:38.

the notion that all of scripture points to Acts 2:38 is somehow the official position of the UPCI or the "PAJC" portion of the UPCI is just silly.

Huh ... just answer the question ... let's not dance. This statement has been said by quite a few PAJCers ... not all.

Just like some have called Acts 2:38 is the Gospel .... and most reasoned PAJCers tell you this is not the case ... but it is the response.

We don't have to agree theologically ... but it would behoove you to present your case w/ clarity.

[Nahum]

I propose that we all ignore Daniel's question just like he ignored the question about what baptism is necessary for.

[SDG]

I propose that we all ignore Daniel's question just like he ignored the question about what baptism is necessary for.

I propose anyone go to that thread and see that I did ... however PP is being disingenous because he doesn't like the answer given by PCIers.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Acts 2:38 was the altar call given on the Day of Pentecost.
Without Calvary ,Pentecost could not have happened.
I've got to run, but Bro.Daniel I love you and cherish you as my friend and brother.

[Nahum]

I propose anyone go to that thread and see that I did ... however PP is being disingenous because he doesn't like the answer given by PCIers.

It's not a PCI position. Matter of fact you don't seem to have a position on it.
That's why MOW has to bail you out (even though he never really answered either).

Your agenda is becoming crystal clear Alicea. You seem to be targeting Oneness Pentecostalism while claiming to be some sort of off-brand Apostolic.

Kinda like the Catholics say they are Apostolic.:santathumb

[SDG]

It's not a PCI position. Matter of fact you don't seem to have a position on it.
That's why MOW has to bail you out (even though he never really answered either).

Your agenda is becoming crystal clear Alicea. You seem to be targeting Oneness Pentecostalism while claiming to be some sort of off-brand Apostolic.

Kinda like the Catholics say they are Apostolic.:santathumb

Still .. hands down ... more Apostolic Pentecostal than you'll EVER BE. :santathumb

[Nahum]

Still .. hands down ... more Apostolic Pentecostal than you'll EVER BE. :santathumb

In your dreams.

You're a poser.

[staysharp]

Acts 2:38 is the most important verse in the entire bible.

Peter had the keys to the kingdom.

The day of Pentecost was the 1st day of the New Tesament church.

Acts 2:38 is the response to every NT sinner that wants to be saved.

What scripture is more important than Acts 2:38???????????????

John 3:16, Romans 10:10 :grampa

[Ferd]

I propose that we all ignore Daniel's question just like he ignored the question about what baptism is necessary for.

on the subject of baptism, all I got was "who wants to be disobediant."


LOL!

[Ferd]

Daniel, I will say that Acts 2:38 is a clear represention of the death, burial and resurrection.

[Ferd]

John 3:16, Romans 10:10 :grampa

LOL! there you have it. the baptists are right!

[SDG]

In your dreams.

You're a poser.

and the TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE ... :christmasjig

[SDG]

Daniel, I will say that Acts 2:38 is a clear represention of the death, burial and resurrection.


Paul gives a better, scriptural and visual picture or representation in Romans 6:3,4

[Ferd]

Paul gives a better, scriptural and visual picture or representation in Romans 6:3,4

careful Dan, you will end up having to accept the point paul was making. baptism distroys the power of sin!

LOL!

[SDG]

careful Dan, you will end up having to accept the point paul was making. baptism distroys the power of sin!

LOL!

Where does he make that point ... because he likens baptism to Christ's death verse 3 .... and HIS burial and resurrection in verse 4.

5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

The blood ... the work of the Lamb destroys sin ... in this context.

[Encryptus]

Acts 2:38 is the most important verse in the entire bible.

Peter had the keys to the kingdom.

The day of Pentecost was the 1st day of the New Tesament church.

Acts 2:38 is the response to every NT sinner that wants to be saved.

What scripture is more important than Acts 2:38???????????????

Attempting to elevate one scripture above another reminds me of a story found in the Jewish oral tradition:

A Jew had been imprisoned by a feudal baron was unexpectedly shown some mercy. “Although you must remain my prisoner forever, I will allow you one day of freedom per year, on that day you can return to your family and practice your religion. You have a week to decide which day it shall be every year”.

If the prisoner decides Passover, he can observe Seder, eat matzot, and drink the four cups of wine. Rosh Hashanah and he can hear the shofar and pray in the temple. Maybe it should be a Shabbat or Shavuot, the day the Torah was given. So many mitzvot (commandments in the Torah), to pick one day meant to exclude the possibility of observing the laws connected with another.

He sent a message to his Rabbi David ben Abi Zimra, asking him to decide which day to choose. He was totally unprepared for reply. “The day you must choose is the very first day available, be it a Shabbat, a weekday, or any holiday”

The Rabbi made clear he should take the first available day so that he would not be forced to choose among the mitzvot. To choose one law above another is not just to say that it is more important, but that the other is less important. And how dare we say that any law given by God is less than another?





I have actually read on another thread that someone checked into a motel and noted that the words of our Lord and Savior in John 3:16 had been crossed out and Acts 2:38 written in the margin.

How dare any mortal try to decide which of God’s Words are most Holy!

As to the issue of the thread I would vote yes. All scriptures point to Acts 2:38.

On the other hand I would also say they all point to John 1:14 and even Genesis 1:1.

Even yes Song of Solomon points to Acts 2:38. Christ our Bridegroom. We must obey Acts 2:38 to be in the Bride.

Song of Solomon, who is the Bridegroom? John 1:14

God’s Holy Writ.

Trying to determine which verses are of more import, thereby implying that some are not? Folly to the point of blasphemy.

[mizpeh]

That's too bad .... I hope that it wasn't because you'd have to agree w/ me.

I didn't like the choices given.

[Ferd]

obfuscate.

[Encryptus]

Acts 2:38 is the most important verse in the entire bible.

Peter had the keys to the kingdom.

The day of Pentecost was the 1st day of the New Tesament church.

Acts 2:38 is the response to every NT sinner that wants to be saved.

What scripture is more important than Acts 2:38???????????????

Attempting to elevate one scripture above another reminds me of a story found in the Jewish oral tradition:

A Jew had been imprisoned by a feudal baron was unexpectedly shown some mercy. “Although you must remain my prisoner forever, I will allow you one day of freedom per year, on that day you can return to your family and practice your religion. You have a week to decide which day it shall be every year”.

If the prisoner decides Passover, he can observe Seder, eat matzot, and drink the four cups of wine. Rosh Hashanah and he can hear the shofar and pray in the temple. Maybe it should be a Shabbat or Shavuot, the day the Torah was given. So many mitzvot (commandments in the Torah), to pick one day meant to exclude the possibility of observing the laws connected with another.

He sent a message to his Rabbi David ben Abi Zimra, asking him to decide which day to choose. He was totally unprepared for reply. “The day you must choose is the very first day available, be it a Shabbat, a weekday, or any holiday”

The Rabbi made clear he should take the first available day so that he would not be forced to choose among the mitzvot. To choose one law above another is not just to say that it is more important, but that the other is less important. And how dare we say that any law given by God is less than another?





I have actually read on another thread that someone checked into a motel and noted that the words of our Lord and Savior in John 3:16 had been crossed out and Acts 2:38 written in the margin.

How dare any mortal try to decide which of God’s Words are most Holy!

As to the issue of the thread I would vote yes. All scriptures point to Acts 2:38.

On the other hand I would also say they all point to John 1:14 and even Genesis 1:1.

Even yes Song of Solomon points to Acts 2:38. Christ our Bridegroom. We must obey Acts 2:38 to be in the Bride.

Song of Solomon, who is the Bridegroom? John 1:14

God’s Holy Writ.

Trying to determine which verses are of more import, thereby implying that some are not? Folly to the point of blasphemy.

BUMP for Dedicated Mind

[Dedicated Mind]

BUMP for Dedicated Mind

Great story crypt...I wasn't trying to elevate scriptures but if you look at the bible from a historical perspective; the OT is awaiting redemption, the gospels climax with the story of calvary and Acts 2 is the arrival of the awaited promise of the New Covenant; Peter sums up the OT prophecies with the story found in the Gospels and BANG, Acts 2:38 is what we should do to enter the New Covenant.

It is the most pivotal moment in the long history of God's dealing with man.

John 3:16 is the only other verse with such a profound summation of God's plan for mankind's redemption, but doesn't compare in the directness with wich Acts 2:38 addresses the issue of mankind's redemption or what we need to do to achieve it.

jmo

[Ronzo]

Does all scripture point to Acts 2:38?

Answer: No.

[Encryptus]

Great side step totally ignoring the post!

You posted:




Acts 2:38 is the most important verse in the entire bible.




A reprehensible and indefensible position.

[Dedicated Mind]

Great side step totally ignoring the post!

A reprehensible and indefensible position.

:penguin I completely stand by my sidestep! :penguin

[Encryptus]

Acts 2:38 is the most important verse in the entire bible.

Peter had the keys to the kingdom.

The day of Pentecost was the 1st day of the New Tesament church.

Acts 2:38 is the response to every NT sinner that wants to be saved.

What scripture is more important than Acts 2:38???????????????


Well good! Since you won't repeat the statement and continue to edit it out, one can only pray you have repented from maintaining that Acts 2:38 "is the most important verse in the entire Bible"

[Dedicated Mind]

Well good! Since you won't repeat the statement and continue to edit it out, one can only pray you have repented from maintaining that Acts 2:38 "is the most important verse in the entire Bible"

actually I thought my statements were congruent, but I like your oral tradition story. Do you know of any Jewish websites with similar info?

[SDG]

obfuscate.

Evade.

[Encryptus]

Evade.

Like the previous poster???? ROFLOL

And to think a mere 48hrs ago he purported to be a serious debate contender.

And got upset when didn't want to beat a dead horse.

Answer to question DM,

There are plenty of sites yes, but I also attend a messianic fellowship on Saturdays when schedule permits.

[Dedicated Mind]

Like the previous poster???? ROFLOL

And to think a mere 48hrs ago he purported to be a serious debate contender.

And got upset when didn't want to beat a dead horse.

Answer to question DM,

There are plenty of sites yes, but I also attend a messianic fellowship on Saturdays when schedule permits.

can you recommend any sites?

[Neck]

I love what Jesus said on the Cross. "It is finished!"

So take me to the Cross.

Then to Acts 2:38.

[crakjak]

Attempting to elevate one scripture above another reminds me of a story found in the Jewish oral tradition:

A Jew had been imprisoned by a feudal baron was unexpectedly shown some mercy. “Although you must remain my prisoner forever, I will allow you one day of freedom per year, on that day you can return to your family and practice your religion. You have a week to decide which day it shall be every year”.

If the prisoner decides Passover, he can observe Seder, eat matzot, and drink the four cups of wine. Rosh Hashanah and he can hear the shofar and pray in the temple. Maybe it should be a Shabbat or Shavuot, the day the Torah was given. So many mitzvot (commandments in the Torah), to pick one day meant to exclude the possibility of observing the laws connected with another.

He sent a message to his Rabbi David ben Abi Zimra, asking him to decide which day to choose. He was totally unprepared for reply. “The day you must choose is the very first day available, be it a Shabbat, a weekday, or any holiday”

The Rabbi made clear he should take the first available day so that he would not be forced to choose among the mitzvot. To choose one law above another is not just to say that it is more important, but that the other is less important. And how dare we say that any law given by God is less than another?





I have actually read on another thread that someone checked into a motel and noted that the words of our Lord and Savior in John 3:16 had been crossed out and Acts 2:38 written in the margin.

How dare any mortal try to decide which of God’s Words are most Holy!

As to the issue of the thread I would vote yes. All scriptures point to Acts 2:38.

On the other hand I would also say they all point to John 1:14 and even Genesis 1:1.

Even yes Song of Solomon points to Acts 2:38. Christ our Bridegroom. We must obey Acts 2:38 to be in the Bride.

Song of Solomon, who is the Bridegroom? John 1:14

God’s Holy Writ.

Trying to determine which verses are of more import, thereby implying that some are not? Folly to the point of blasphemy.

I like your answer, blessing to you! "ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN FOR...."

[A.W. Bowman]

Now that everything has died down: Verses usually skipped over:

Concerning Tongues: Acts 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. {was...: Gr. voice was made confounded: or, troubled in mind} 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

No prayer language and no language of angles.

Next:

Concerning "easy believeism": Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: 21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Most OP doctrine teachers would refute this passage as "easy believeism" because it casts Acts 2:38 in a different light.

Of course, we must now go back and re-read Acts 2. each line, word by word and see how it all fits together. Now, everyone is free to draw their own conclusions based on the word, rather than on just church dogma. Be happy with your point of view.

[Brother Price]

All scripture points to the Cross and the One who was on the Cross!

[stmatthew]

Actually, Acts 2:38 points to the complete work of Christ, death, burial, and resurrection.


Acts Chapter 2 is the culmination of Gods plan for the saving of souls. It is the birth of the New Testament Church.

[Brother Price]

I am sorry if this gets against some folks' belief, but Acts 2:38 is not the most important verse in scripture...

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." {John 3:16-18}

This is the most important verse in the Bible.

[revrandy]

HoHum....

What's the point??

Trying to get folks to admit that Acts 2:38 isn't important??

This is getting to be old...

What is the most important verse?

Why aren't complimenting Acts 2:38 by all the supporting scripture vs. being adversaly opposed to supporting it and casting shadow and doubt on it??

It's just wrong...

All the Bible was given to men and women as a lighted path for us to follow equally important and equal in Truth... to deny it is to deny it's power and authority in your life..
But then again authority is or has been a bad word around here...

[RandyWayne]

I am sorry if this gets against some folks' belief, but Acts 2:38 is not the most important verse in scripture...

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." {John 3:16-18}

This is the most important verse in the Bible.

AMEN!

And I would also add.... "It is finished."

[Apprehended]

The bible that contains all scripture is God's plan for the salvation of man. Therefore, all scripture point to the message of N.T. salvation as seen in Acts 2:38.

[NW Pastor]

on the subject of baptism, all I got was "who wants to be disobediant."


LOL!

I'm not sure if it matters what points to what, or which scripture is more powerful. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and profitable for reproof, correction, and training in righteousness.

The "point" that matters is to be obedient to the revealed word of God, rather than try to pry open the mind of Christ to inquire which of his words are more important than others.

Calvary happened. Without it there could be no Acts 2. They are interconnected and interdependent.

[Ferd]

HoHum....

What's the point??

Trying to get folks to admit that Acts 2:38 isn't important??

This is getting to be old...

What is the most important verse?

Why aren't complimenting Acts 2:38 by all the supporting scripture vs. being adversaly opposed to supporting it and casting shadow and doubt on it??

It's just wrong...

All the Bible was given to men and women as a lighted path for us to follow equally important and equal in Truth... to deny it is to deny it's power and authority in your life..
But then again authority is or has been a bad word around here...

I still have not voted in this idiotic poll.

[OneAccord]

Not to dimish the importance of Acts 2:38 but, I have to vote "NO". The Scriptues point to Jesus:

Jhn 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

[SDG]

Not to dimish the importance of Acts 2:38 but, I have to vote "NO". The Scriptues point to Jesus:

Jhn 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Hello.

[mfblume]

All scripture -- including Acts 2:38 -- points to the cross -- the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus.

[Ferd]

All scripture -- including Acts 2:38 -- points to the cross -- the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus.

Its kind of like saying the sun is hot, isnt it?

[Neck]

The "Lamb" was slain before the foundations of the world were laid.

Before the words that spoke the heavens and the earth into being.

Christ was laid upon the Cross....

Not Acts 2:38.

[Joelel]

Even Paul preached Acts 2:38.Paul preached the same gospel as the other apostles for salvation.Just worded a little different.

You must be baptized.

Blood was shed at death.Rom.6:: Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death (blood): that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death (blood), we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection

You must repent.

2 Cor.7:[10] For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

2Cor.12
[21] And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

You must be filled with the Spirit.

Rom.8
[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[4] That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[5] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[6] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
[13] For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
[14] For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
[15] For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

[Neck]

Even Paul preached Acts 2:38.Paul preached the same gospel as the other apostles for salvation.Just worded a little different.

You must be baptized.

Blood was shed at death.Rom.6:: Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death (blood): that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death (blood), we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection

You must repent.

2 Cor.7:[10] For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

2Cor.12
[21] And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

You must be filled with the Spirit.

Rom.8
[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[4] That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[5] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[6] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
[13] For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
[14] For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
[15] For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Paul Preached that to us that believe the Preaching of the Cross is the power of God.

I do not want to know anything amung you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.


Get to the cross and then.....

[Neck]

The Scriptures point to the Cross.

Acts 2:38 begins your journey from the Cross to Glory.

The Glory road is walked in Mercy, faith and in the fear of God.

Committing sin puts you back at the starting point the "Cross".

The importance of the Cross.

We visit the Cross daily.

We visit Acts 2:38 once....

There should be more preaching on the Cross.

Less preaching to the choir about Acts 2:38.

Some preach it as if they are getting baptized like Bill Murray waking up in Ground hog day at 6:00AM "to the same song over and over again."

Most spend 80% of their ministerial work preaching about Acts 2:38 a onetime experience.

20% preaching and teaching about the "Cross" and the Journey the "Cross" and Acts 2:38 puts you on......

Go from the tank to the Journey and live the life of an overcoming, motivated and "Action" Apostolic.

Not an "Apathetic" Apostolic.

There is more "Action" in the "Acts".

Otherwise this book of the bible should be known as the The Book "Act".

Or the "Act of the Apostles."

[RevDWW]

Paul Preached that to us that believe the Preaching of the Cross is the power of God.

I do not want to know anything amung you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.


Get to the cross and then.....

Isn't there a direct correlation between the cross of Christ and taking up our cross in repentance?

What about His burial in a tomb compared to our burial in water baptism....buried with Christ?

[Joelel]

Paul Preached that to us that believe the Preaching of the Cross is the power of God.

I do not want to know anything amung you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.


Get to the cross and then.....

Sure Paul preached to believe first as all the apostles did,If a person don't believe first they sure are not going to repent and be baptixed and be born again of the Spirit.NOTE VERSE 9.

Rom.8
[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[4] That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[5] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[6] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
[13] For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
[14] For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
[15] For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God

[Joelel]

Paul Preached that to us that believe the Preaching of the Cross is the power of God.

I do not want to know anything amung you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.


Get to the cross and then.....

Blood was shed at death.Rom.6:: Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death (blood): that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death (blood), we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection

[Neck]

Blood was shed at death.Rom.6:: Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death (blood): that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death (blood), we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection

Before you are buried you need to understand what Christ did on the cross and believe that the shedding of his blood will give you forgiveness of sins.

There is no forgiveness at repentance without believing in the Cross of Calvary.

The problem I had growing up in the UPCI was the constant emphasis on Acts 2:38 to be preached without showing the importance of the Cross of Calvary.

We spent our entire walk with God talking about an experience all of us could only complete once in our walk with God...

[revrandy]

Before you are buried you need to understand what Christ did on the cross and believe that the shedding of his blood will give you forgiveness of sins.

There is no forgiveness at repentance without believing in the Cross of Calvary.

The problem I had growing up in the UPCI was the constant emphasis on Acts 2:38 to be preached without showing the importance of the Cross of Calvary.

We spent our entire walk with God talking about an experience all of us could only complete once in our walk with God...

there is a lack of Grace teaching at times... Understanding Calvary and knowing and living in Grace does need to be taught...

You just grew up without that teaching...you can't paint the UPC with a broad brush judging by where you grew up....

And the experiance of Holy Ghost is a daily experiance...

Man..According to what your saying...you didn't recieve good teaching...

[Neck]

Blood was shed at death.Rom.6:: Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death (blood): that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death (blood), we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection

Much of the power of the Blood of Jesus was shed before the Cross. On his journey for our healing and benefit.

Today many assign sowing to getting.

When our following his walk "to" calvary carries these miracles.

We talk about the salvational formula. Death-Burial-Resurrection.

We do not want to preach about the "CrossWalk" that Jesus took.

We need to walk with him on that Journey in our salvation.

Or we do not complete the complete work of Grace and salvation.

I do not leave out Acts 2:38.

I walk with Christ in his journey to the Cross...

Our belief is not in Acts 2:38.

That is a response to our faith in the redeeming power of his shed blood on calvary.

Without the shedding of Blood there is "no" remission of sins.

[revrandy]

Most folks leave people in the Grave concerning Salvation...offering repentence and burial but that's as far as some folks get...

The work of Calvary was the culmination of the Gospel..but the resurrection was beginning of the church.. and walking in the Newness of life....

No Resurrection...No Newness....

but Christ didn't stay in the Grave... he was resurrected...brought back to life... just as we who repent... and are baptized recieve His Spirit by being filled with it...

[Neck]

Isn't there a direct correlation between the cross of Christ and taking up our cross in repentance?

What about His burial in a tomb compared to our burial in water baptism....buried with Christ?

The direct correlation to the Cross is to believe that he died for our sins on Calvary.

Without that understanding and belief first.

The Acts 2:38 experience is a completed work in a formula and not the finished work on Calvary.

One should not be a candidate for Baptism withour belief.

We do not baptize babies.

So does the adult believe that Acts 2:38 saves them?

Or should they believe first and understand that Christ shed his blood for their sins on Calvary.

Then who can forbid water....

For the men at Pentecost were pricked in their hearts.

Then asked what shall we do?

Being Pricked they understood they had crucified the son of God...

My distinction:

I believe my belief rest on the belief that Christ died for my sins on Calvary.

Then that belief brought about repentance in my heart.

Which led me to the waters of Baptism.

Then the joy and newness of life brought me into the wonderful power of the Holy spirit.

That experience brought about a conversation with God that I could not understand for my words were new as was my body-soul-spirit.

Our belief in God is not summed up by Acts 2:38.

It is simpl faith in his death on calvary...

[Neck]

Most folks leave people in the Grave concerning Salvation...offering repentence and burial but that's as far as some folks get...

The work of Calvary was the culmination of the Gospel..but the resurrection was beginning of the church.. and walking in the Newness of life....

No Resurrection...No Newness....

but Christ didn't stay in the Grave... he was resurrected...brought back to life... just as we who repent... and are baptized recieve His Spirit by being filled with it...

It was stated pick up "your" cross and follow him. If you do not follow Christ in his journey to the Cross.

You will never find death to be buried.

Even your Baptism in Jesus name has no affect.

We baptize, and get folks talking in a new talk.

But we never take them on the journey before the death, burial and resurection...

Out healing was made possible by his journey to the cross.

Which tells us his journey is our daily walk in Christ...

Many such as Joel Osteen have taken down their cross.

They believe it to be a negative symbol.

So they preach to sow to get...

When our healings are found on the road to calvary...

[Joelel]

The Scriptures point to the Cross.

Acts 2:38 begins your journey from the Cross to Glory.

The Glory road is walked in Mercy, faith and in the fear of God.

Committing sin puts you back at the starting point the "Cross".

The importance of the Cross.

We visit the Cross daily.

We visit Acts 2:38 once....

There should be more preaching on the Cross.

Less preaching to the choir about Acts 2:38.

Some preach it as if they are getting baptized like Bill Murray waking up in Ground hog day at 6:00AM "to the same song over and over again."

Most spend 80% of their ministerial work preaching about Acts 2:38 a onetime experience.

20% preaching and teaching about the "Cross" and the Journey the "Cross" and Acts 2:38 puts you on......

Go from the tank to the Journey and live the life of an overcoming, motivated and "Action" Apostolic.

Not an "Apathetic" Apostolic.

There is more "Action" in the "Acts".

Otherwise this book of the bible should be known as the The Book "Act".

Or the "Act of the Apostles."

I agree,

[Joelel]

Before you are buried you need to understand what Christ did on the cross and believe that the shedding of his blood will give you forgiveness of sins.

There is no forgiveness at repentance without believing in the Cross of Calvary.

The problem I had growing up in the UPCI was the constant emphasis on Acts 2:38 to be preached without showing the importance of the Cross of Calvary.

We spent our entire walk with God talking about an experience all of us could only complete once in our walk with God...

I agree