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Nahum
12-13-2007, 02:06 PM
I thought no one was supposed to be allowed to tear down Pentecostal/Apostolic doctrine? What's up with all of the threads posted against Acts 2:38, water baptism, Holy Ghost-infilling and the like?

Ferd
12-13-2007, 02:37 PM
I thought no one was supposed to be allowed to tear down Pentecostal/Apostolic doctrine? What's up with all of the threads posted against Acts 2:38, water baptism, Holy Ghost-infilling and the like?

it isnt tearing it down PP. It is an attempt to give us a better understanding!

dude, Acts is kind of a guide line that should be viewed more as a "what they did" not so much as a "what you need to do"

RevBuddy
12-13-2007, 02:38 PM
:stop

I'm with Pastor Poster on this. It's an important issue here at AFF. We need quite a bit more monitoring of the posts and threads for anti-apostolic doctrinal positions.

Certainly, let's have good discussion on the finer points, but the outright opposition to our doctrinal positions should be invited elsewhere.

:tiphat

Admin
12-13-2007, 02:43 PM
We seek a mix among the different beliefs here and we have a reported posts tool for those postings in error.

Any threads found to not be in agreement with our Belief statement will be removed to the Debate area, or deleted.

ChicagoPastor
12-13-2007, 02:47 PM
Ok maybe the thread should've been called something else, but PP brings up a valid point....

Isn't it kinda wrong that people that hold the traditional Oneness message and views feel like the minority on an Apostolic forum?

Ferd
12-13-2007, 02:49 PM
:stop

I'm with Pastor Poster on this. It's an important issue here at AFF. We need quite a bit more monitoring of the posts and threads for anti-apostolic doctrinal positions.

Certainly, let's have good discussion on the finer points, but the outright opposition to our doctrinal positions should be invited elsewhere.

:tiphat

Dont you know RevBuddy! Acts 2:38 isnt a panacea it is just a historical record of what a group of people did 2,000 years ago you know?

Thad
12-13-2007, 02:51 PM
Isn't this what Atlanta Bishop was banned for ??


.

mizpeh
12-13-2007, 02:53 PM
Ok maybe the thread should've been called something else, but PP brings up a valid point....

Isn't it kinda wrong that people that hold the traditional Oneness message and views feel like the minority on an Apostolic forum? Oh, I hope this doesn't lead to someone bringing us back to the early days of this century again!

The traditional Oneness message is found in the Bible and was taught by the apostles. It is not a new teaching discovered in 1913.

RevBuddy
12-13-2007, 02:59 PM
Ferd... :naughty

Hey, man, I didn't fall off a turnip truck yesterday...nice try!!! :razz

BoredOutOfMyMind
12-13-2007, 03:07 PM
Ok maybe the thread should've been called something else, but PP brings up a valid point....

Isn't it kinda wrong that people that hold the traditional Oneness message and views feel like the minority on an Apostolic forum?

Maybe instead of complaining, join in and show what you feel is the correct message in these threads questioning our beliefs.

I am for one sick of the Resolution and Tulsa threads, so some real meat would be a welcome change.

-refer to the "Blah Blah Blah" thread MissB started a few weeks ago to find I am not in the minority either.

:grouphug

Encryptus
12-13-2007, 03:12 PM
I thought no one was supposed to be allowed to tear down Pentecostal/Apostolic doctrine? What's up with all of the threads posted against Acts 2:38, water baptism, Holy Ghost-infilling and the like?

Not looking for argument, just clarification. Which threads were posted "against" Acts 2:38, water baptism, Holy Ghost-infilling and the like?

I have seen threads which tried to explore their purpose. But not even the "PCIers" or "one-steppers" or whatever, have not stated that they should not be done!

(BTW If you find one I AGREE it should be banned)

Ferd
12-13-2007, 03:19 PM
Ferd... :naughty

Hey, man, I didn't fall off a turnip truck yesterday...nice try!!! :razz


for the record, i dont believe anything I have posted in this thread thus far....

BoredOutOfMyMind
12-13-2007, 03:20 PM
for the record, i dont believe anything I have posted in this thread thus far....

I cannot believe YOU posted THAT!

Carpenter
12-13-2007, 03:43 PM
Ok maybe the thread should've been called something else, but PP brings up a valid point....

Isn't it kinda wrong that people that hold the traditional Oneness message and views feel like the minority on an Apostolic forum?

I am kind of concerned myself actually and I think my concern is why I believe that you are concerned.

First of all, it is troubling to me that so many on this forum, believes stronger that embracing the Acts 2:38 doctrine of baptism is what gives rise to Oneness revelation rather than what you used to believe took place according to that scripture...namely a filthy sinner coming to salvation and the remission of sin.

We jump up and down when we hear the 234 ministers in the Baptist General Conference in Uganda being baptized in Jesus name and all of the sudden we make the leap in assuming ALL of them now have a revelation of the Oneness.

Also, you cannot speak of A2:38 in a vacuum. It has been hotly contested from both sides whether baptism is FOR the remission of sins or BECAUSE OF the remission of sins. Both groups embrace the scripture, but they do not see eye to eye. So which side has prominance? Who is correct? Both?

Also there are folks here who believe that if you compromise the social and cultural doctrines you automatically denounce Acts 2:38, the Oneness, the Holy Ghost, Holiness, etc.

So, I think you may be concerned and that has me concerned. :D

Carpenter
12-13-2007, 03:44 PM
for the record, i dont believe anything I have posted in this thread thus far....

That makes two of us. :killinme

Praxeas
12-13-2007, 03:45 PM
I thought no one was supposed to be allowed to tear down Pentecostal/Apostolic doctrine? What's up with all of the threads posted against Acts 2:38, water baptism, Holy Ghost-infilling and the like?
Use the Post reporting tool. Good grief people, how many times does it need to be said???

Carpenter
12-13-2007, 03:51 PM
I would like to report my post above.






...did it work?

ChicagoPastor
12-13-2007, 03:54 PM
Maybe instead of complaining, join in and show what you feel is the correct message in these threads questioning our beliefs. :grouphug

BOOM,
are you calling me out? are you saying I don't stand up for my beliefs? :christmoose (jk)
:christmasjig

BoredOutOfMyMind
12-13-2007, 04:06 PM
BOOM,
are you calling me out? are you saying I don't stand up for my beliefs? :christmoose (jk)
:christmasjig

Not calling you out at all. We have a lot of threads with one side of the story. With someone posting what is Biblical and what is correct, we have then both sides.

I am sorry you felt I called you out. :tiphat

pelathais
12-13-2007, 04:44 PM
I am kind of concerned myself actually and I think my concern is why I believe that you are concerned.

First of all, it is troubling to me that so many on this forum, believes stronger that embracing the Acts 2:38 doctrine of baptism is what gives rise to Oneness revelation rather than what you used to believe took place according to that scripture...namely a filthy sinner coming to salvation and the remission of sin.

We jump up and down when we hear the 234 ministers in the Baptist General Conference in Uganda being baptized in Jesus name and all of the sudden we make the leap in assuming ALL of them now have a revelation of the Oneness.

Also, you cannot speak of A2:38 in a vacuum. It has been hotly contested from both sides whether baptism is FOR the remission of sins or BECAUSE OF the remission of sins. Both groups embrace the scripture, but they do not see eye to eye. So which side has prominance? Who is correct? Both?

Also there are folks here who believe that if you compromise the social and cultural doctrines you automatically denounce Acts 2:38, the Oneness, the Holy Ghost, Holiness, etc.

So, I think you may be concerned and that has me concerned. :D
Carpenter is correct. There is a lot of over sensitivity sometimes when peripheral matters are questioned.

A few people seem to take the "all or nothing approach." If you don't condemn coulottes then you must also baptize in the titles.

BoredOutOfMyMind
12-13-2007, 04:46 PM
Carpenter is correct. There is a lot of over sensitivity sometimes when peripheral matters are questioned.

A few people seem to take the "all or nothing approach." If you don't condemn coulottes then you must also baptize in the titles.

I think there is concern on the matters of the essentiality of Repentance, Water Baptism in Jesus Name, and the Infilling of the Holy Ghost presented recently.

Ronzo
12-13-2007, 05:00 PM
What Happened to AFF's Belief System?

They recanted!

;)

anapko
12-13-2007, 05:08 PM
Isn't this what Atlanta Bishop was banned for ??


.


Good Point!

Dedicated Mind
12-13-2007, 05:30 PM
I'm all for open debate and discussion, if I remember correctly, not too long ago PP was complaining about how boring the forum had become. I am just surprised at the number of baptists among us. These debates have reinforced by water/spirit beliefs by challenging them. Has anyone been swayed toward the PCI stance?? If one-step is true, that means many more are saved. I wish it were true, but I keep believing in 3-steps.

Neck
12-13-2007, 06:07 PM
Isn't this what Atlanta Bishop was banned for ??


.

Sometimes when you ask a question. You many not get the answer you want.

mizpeh
12-13-2007, 06:13 PM
I'm all for open debate and discussion, if I remember correctly, not too long ago PP was complaining about how boring the forum had become. I am just surprised at the number of baptists among us. These debates have reinforced by water/spirit beliefs by challenging them. Has anyone been swayed toward the PCI stance?? If one-step is true, that means many more are saved. I wish it were true, but I keep believing in 3-steps.

These baptists among us prefer to be called greasy gracers. :jolly:jolly:jolly

rgcraig
12-13-2007, 06:46 PM
I guess I didn't realize that AFF HAD a belief system.

revrandy
12-13-2007, 06:52 PM
I guess I didn't realize that AFF HAD a belief system.

Well there ya' go.....:D

SDG
12-13-2007, 06:55 PM
Well there ya' go.....:D

Has anyone noticed is the defenders of truth and the keepers of the holy grail are the one's the complain and fuss around here when the heat rises in the kitchen ... let's man up guys ... stop whining .... set the record straight ... show us you've got the answers.... save us!!!!

Dedicated Mind
12-13-2007, 07:00 PM
Has anyone noticed is the defenders of truth and the keepers of the holy grail are the one's the complain and fuss around here when the heat rises in the kitchen ... let's man up guys ... stop whining .... set the record straight ... show us you've got the answers.... save us!!!!

REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST, FOR THE REMSSION OF SINS AND YE SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST!!

All else is elementary.:santathumb

rgcraig
12-13-2007, 07:03 PM
Aff's definition of Apostolic is:

Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:

Those that believe that every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith
with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.

Encryptus
12-13-2007, 07:04 PM
Aff's definition of Apostolic is:

Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:

Those that believe that every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith
with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.

Whew knew I done read that somewheres...

:star:horn:star

revrandy
12-13-2007, 07:05 PM
Has anyone noticed is the defenders of truth and the keepers of the holy grail are the one's the complain and fuss around here when the heat rises in the kitchen ... let's man up guys ... stop whining .... set the record straight ... show us you've got the answers.... save us!!!!


Dan...

What do you believe??


As far as I know...

Repentance...
Baptism in Jesus Name
and the Infilling of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in Tongues..

and living a overcoming Life in Christ....

What do you believe?

SDG
12-13-2007, 07:07 PM
REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST, FOR THE REMSSION OF SINS AND YE SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST!!

All else is elementary.:santathumb

Well that tells us when we're regenerated, justified ... etc ... doesn't it?

SDG
12-13-2007, 07:08 PM
Dan...

What do you believe??


As far as I know...

Repentance...
Baptism in Jesus Name
and the Infilling of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in Tongues..

and living a overcoming Life in Christ....

What do you believe?

Search archives. They're exhaustive.

SDG
12-13-2007, 07:09 PM
RR ... I'm not the one tied up in knot ... Please set the record straight on what it means to be Apostolic ... and stop crying.

Dedicated Mind
12-13-2007, 07:14 PM
I'm not pointing fingers but some here don't believe in the "initial evidence".

I'm for inclusiveness.:christmaskiss

revrandy
12-13-2007, 07:17 PM
RR ... I'm not the one tied up in knot ... Please set the record straight on what it means to be Apostolic ... and stop crying.

Who is crying???

Sam
12-13-2007, 07:45 PM
Aff's definition of Apostolic is:

Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:

Those that believe that every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith
with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.

I think we all believe in the two commands and the one promise found in Acts 2:38. As Apostolics we have different ideas as to when a person is justified/saved/regenerated. Some of us believe a person is saved prior to water and Spirit baptism while others do not believe a person is saved until after water and Spirit baptism. Some of us believe Jesus comes into our hearts to dwell as the Holy Spirit at faith/repentance and then we may subsequently be baptized/immersed in the Holy Spirit. Some believe a person is not really saved and rapture ready until he/she speaks with tongues. These are just differences among Apostolic people. The main thing is that we agree to disagree without being disagreeable.

Neck
12-13-2007, 07:57 PM
I think we all believe in the two commands and the one promise found in Acts 2:38. As Apostolics we have different ideas as to when a person is justified/saved/regenerated. Some of us believe a person is saved prior to water and Spirit baptism while others do not believe a person is saved until after water and Spirit baptism. Some of us believe Jesus comes into our hearts to dwell as the Holy Spirit at faith/repentance and then we may subsequently be baptized/immersed in the Holy Spirit. Some believe a person is not really saved and rapture ready until he/she speaks with tongues. These are just differences among Apostolic people. The main thing is that we agree to disagree without being disagreeable.

Some lean PCI some PA-JC. That sounds just like 1945.

Someone leave the room and get a typewriter!

:bells

Nahum
12-13-2007, 08:44 PM
My initial post was not a condemnation of admin in any way.

From now on I will be a good boy and report all of Daniel's posts.

Hoovie
12-13-2007, 08:53 PM
Some lean PCI some PA-JC. That sounds just like 1945.

Someone leave the room and get a typewriter!

:bells

Gimme that Ole Time Religion!

Neck
12-13-2007, 10:51 PM
Gimme that Ole Time Religion!

Cause it's good enough for me!

I like what Jesus said on the Cross "it is finished"!

So take me to the Cross.

Sam
12-13-2007, 11:00 PM
Speaking of "old time religion," we used to have a UPC pastor over in Northern KY who was quite a character. He was on a platform somewhere with a non Pentecostal minister and the non Pentecostal minister started the chorus, "Give me that old time religion..." Bro. Pennington got up and sang another verse which went something like this:
"It will take you to the water
make you speak with tongues and totter
and you'll know it
when you got 'er
it's good enough for me."

Jekyll
12-13-2007, 11:05 PM
My initial post was not a condemnation of admin in any way.

From now on I will be a good boy and report all of Daniel's posts.
lol :jolly

Jekyll
12-13-2007, 11:07 PM
Dan...

What do you believe??


As far as I know...

Repentance...
Baptism in Jesus Name
and the Infilling of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in Tongues..

and living a overcoming Life in Christ....

What do you believe?

Search archives. They're exhaustive.
Deep space...the final frontier. Poor guy will NEVER find an answer.

CC1
12-13-2007, 11:08 PM
I thought no one was supposed to be allowed to tear down Pentecostal/Apostolic doctrine? What's up with all of the threads posted against Acts 2:38, water baptism, Holy Ghost-infilling and the like?

I never really watched ALF so I don't know what his belief system was or what happened to it. He was a puppet for petes's sake! Oh.....wait......."AFF".....Oh! Nevermind.:christmoose

BoredOutOfMyMind
12-13-2007, 11:19 PM
Dan...

What do you believe??


As far as I know...

Repentance...
Baptism in Jesus Name
and the Infilling of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in Tongues..

and living a overcoming Life in Christ....

What do you believe?

Search archives. They're exhaustive.

Yet another dance around what should have been a straightforth simply answered question.

Jekyll
12-13-2007, 11:21 PM
Yet another dance around what should have been a straightforth simply answered question.
First!

lol

BoredOutOfMyMind
12-13-2007, 11:22 PM
Maybe instead of complaining, join in and show what you feel is the correct message in these threads questioning our beliefs.

I am for one sick of the Resolution and Tulsa threads, so some real meat would be a welcome change.

-refer to the "Blah Blah Blah" thread MissB started a few weeks ago to find I am not in the minority either.



My initial post was not a condemnation of admin in any way.

From now on I will be a good boy and report all of Daniel's posts.

:bumpsign

Jekyll
12-13-2007, 11:23 PM
Boom! Pm

BoredOutOfMyMind
12-13-2007, 11:41 PM
Boom! Pm

I remember my first visit to The Bronx. Somewhere down among the rollup doors on the outside of that very BAD neighborhood is a brick wall to be argued with.

:banghead

stmatthew
12-14-2007, 08:57 AM
I thought no one was supposed to be allowed to tear down Pentecostal/Apostolic doctrine? What's up with all of the threads posted against Acts 2:38, water baptism, Holy Ghost-infilling and the like?

Since this is a discussion board primarily for those that have some ties to the Apostolic faith, we initially pushed to conserve the forum for that purpose. But with the conserving, there comes the limiting of healthy debate on non-apostolic discussion. So we opened the debate area so that other subjects could be debated there. As one lady has stated many times, "truth is able to be scrutinized", and I add to that "without being compromised or jeopardized".

So should there be non-apostolic discussion anywhere other than the Debate Area, please report it so that it can be moved.

And on a side note, the Debate Area is not visible unless one is signed on.

Mrs. LPW
12-14-2007, 09:14 AM
Has anyone noticed is the defenders of truth and the keepers of the holy grail are the one's the complain and fuss around here when the heat rises in the kitchen ... let's man up guys ... stop whining .... set the record straight ... show us you've got the answers.... save us!!!!

Dan, because of the sweet spirit in which you posted your reply here, I will answer it... you know had you been sarcastic and/or snide I never would...

But do you see me complaining and fussing?

Ferd
12-14-2007, 09:24 AM
It isnt the PCI doctrine espoused by some that gets me, it is the accusation that i am a mormon or a papist that causes pause.

TRFrance
12-14-2007, 09:40 AM
it isnt tearing it down PP. It is an attempt to give us a better understanding!

dude, Acts is kind of a guide line that should be viewed more as a "what they did" not so much as a "what you need to do"


Don't you see the irony there. Shouldn't "what they did" be the same as "what we need to do" ? Wasn't the book given as an example of for us to follow?

A "better understanding", huh? That's almost funny.
When people preach a "false gospel" don't they always say they're giving us a "better understanding" ?

Ferd
12-14-2007, 09:42 AM
Don't you see the irony there. Shouldn't "what they did" be the same as "what we need to do" ? Wasn't the book given as an example of for us to follow?

A "better understanding", huh? That's almost funny.
When people preach a "false gospel" don't they always say they're giving us a "better understanding" ?

you didnt see the post where I said i didnt believe what i wrote.


TRF, that was me showing the silliness of that argument.

Jesus told Peter
Peter told me
I obeyed.

TRFrance
12-14-2007, 09:48 AM
Ok maybe the thread should've been called something else, but PP brings up a valid point....

Isn't it kinda wrong that people that hold the traditional Oneness message and views feel like the minority on an Apostolic forum?

Very true, and sad. Not good for the forum as a whole,because many people seeking apostolic fellowship will just gravitate to other boards.

What Happened to AFF's Belief System?

I guess my rhetorical response is "WHAT belief system"?
Is there really one?
This place is starting to feel more and more like an Ex-Apostolics forum.

TRFrance
12-14-2007, 09:49 AM
you didnt see the post where I said i didnt believe what i wrote.


TRF, that was me showing the silliness of that argument.

Jesus told Peter
Peter told me
I obeyed.

Ok... so you were being tongue in cheek, I see...
I missed that, sorry.

TRFrance
12-14-2007, 09:50 AM
It isnt the PCI doctrine espoused by some that gets me, it is the accusation that i am a mormon or a papist that causes pause.

How/why would anyone accuse you of being a Mormon or papist?
how would that even come up?

BoredOutOfMyMind
12-14-2007, 09:52 AM
Very true, and sad. Not good for the forum as a whole,because many people seeking apostolic fellowship will just gravitate to other boards.



I guess my rhetorical response is "WHAT belief system"?
Is there really one?
This place is starting to feel more and more like an Ex-Apostolics forum.

Again, post some responses or start some discussion on what you see as correct. We feel we usually have a good balance here. Only balanced if we have participation from many.

Or do like some and tell the bitter, disgruntled ExApostolics to get over it. (nicely of course!)

TRFrance, I appreciate your imput on this board.

TRFrance
12-14-2007, 10:04 AM
Again, post some responses or start some discussion on what you see as correct. We feel we usually have a good balance here. Only balanced if we have participation from many.

Or do like some and tell the bitter, disgruntled ExApostolics to get over it. (nicely of course!)

TRFrance, I appreciate your imput on this board.

Thank you sir.
Much appreciated.

mizpeh
12-14-2007, 11:34 AM
How/why would anyone accuse you of being a Mormon or papist?
how would that even come up?

Dan A says we are sacramentalist and baptismal regenerationsists like the Catholic church.

I'm not sure I've been compared to a Mormon yet!

Ferd
12-14-2007, 11:55 AM
How/why would anyone accuse you of being a Mormon or papist?
how would that even come up?

the AFF's most verbose has made these statements directly. (one might argue wheither or not the verbosity has resulted in anything actually being said.)


***edited under protest*** evidently someone decided i was name calling.

BoredOutOfMyMind
12-14-2007, 12:00 PM
..... has made these statements directly.

Sir Ferd!

Lets not resort to name calling!

Nahum
12-14-2007, 12:01 PM
Dan A says we are sacramentalist and baptismal regenerationsists like the Catholic church.

I'm not sure I've been compared to a Mormon yet!

...has made these statements directly.

That's pretty much what I am talking about.

I have no problem with MOW, Felicity or others who say they hold to a PCI version of doctrine. I disagree with them, but I respect them.

My problem is with those who come on here and call me a sacrementalist, papist, Mormon, holy grail protector just because I won't bend on doctrine.

It's all about agenda.

Ferd
12-14-2007, 12:43 PM
That's pretty much what I am talking about.

I have no problem with MOW, Felicity or others who say they hold to a PCI version of doctrine. I disagree with them, but I respect them.

My problem is with those who come on here and call me a sacrementalist, papist, Mormon, holy grail protector just because I won't bend on doctrine.

It's all about agenda.

I think your problem is my problem. we arent clicking that little triangle in the corner and reporting those who make such an accusation.

The thing that really bothers me about our friend doing this is, that time and again, I went to bat for him because I believe that his position has a place here.

however that has turned from a point of doctrine to the same kind of baseball bat, Ultra-Cons get accused of using.

Carpenter
12-14-2007, 12:47 PM
You know what I find so interesting is that really this forum has caused me to re-think and challenge my beliefs and further my abililty to publicly state what I believe and understand about baptism and standards, and most topics having to do with doctrine, salvation, tradition, and culture, etc.

I would venture a guess that most garden variety Apostolic saint would have a difficult time were they put on the spot to totally exhaust their beliefs to someone else, and further have the abilty to instantly respond to the difficult questions posed here by various folks.

I would say that most apostolic pew sitters would break out in a cold sweat if their statement of belief was challenged from an academic standpoint and not necessarily from an antagonistic perspective.

You know why I say this? I have tried it and you know what? After the cold sweat, atomic anger and indignation follows.

I guess I said all that to say, I am glad folks can hit the topics from all sides, hopefully it gives folks a stronger ability to become an apologetic for their faith.

Carpenter
12-14-2007, 12:48 PM
That's pretty much what I am talking about.

I have no problem with MOW, Felicity or others who say they hold to a PCI version of doctrine. I disagree with them, but I respect them.

My problem is with those who come on here and call me a sacrementalist, papist, Mormon, holy grail protector just because I won't bend on doctrine.

It's all about agenda.


I need to slow down my reading, I thought you guys were talking about a city in Northern California, the origin of nutrition for newborns, the Osmond family, morons, and Monty Python!

:D

DividedThigh
12-14-2007, 12:50 PM
i have been in the church for over 38 years, i believe what i have believed since a teen, i am sure there are hundreds of ideas of what orthodoxy is on this forum, i havent changed, wont change, the bible is my guide and his spirit my leader, dt:christmasjig

BoredOutOfMyMind
12-14-2007, 12:50 PM
I need to slow down my reading, I thought you guys were talking about a city in Northern California, the origin of nutrition for newborns, the Osmond family, morons, and Monty Python!

:D

TLC is moving there when he leaves the UPC to restart JCM as a new commune!

Carpenter
12-14-2007, 12:51 PM
i have been in the church for over 38 years, i believe what i have believed since a teen, i am sure there are hundreds of ideas of what orthodoxy is on this forum, i havent changed, wont change, the bible is my guide and his spirit my leader, dt:christmasjig

Why are you bringing change into the mix? Do you believe that is what is taking place here? An attempt to change someone's mind or belief system?


Maybe that is why you aren't having any fun?

:D

DividedThigh
12-14-2007, 12:52 PM
boom you funny, lol,dt:horn

Ferd
12-14-2007, 12:52 PM
You know what I find so interesting is that really this forum has caused me to re-think and challenge my beliefs and further my abililty to publicly state what I believe and understand about baptism and standards, and most topics having to do with doctrine, salvation, tradition, and culture, etc.

I would venture a guess that most garden variety Apostolic saint would have a difficult time were they put on the spot to totally exhaust their beliefs to someone else, and further have the abilty to instantly respond to the difficult questions posed here by various folks.

I would say that most apostolic pew sitters would break out in a cold sweat if their statement of belief was challenged from an academic standpoint and not necessarily from an antagonistic perspective.

You know why I say this? I have tried it and you know what? After the cold sweat, atomic anger and indignation follows.

I guess I said all that to say, I am glad folks can hit the topics from all sides, hopefully it gives folks a stronger ability to become an apologetic for their faith.


Carpenter, I agree with the above 100%. I dont mind the challenge, I dont mind debating the scripture.

You have been around long enough to know that i dont even mind a good old fashioned knock down drag out brawl.

in fact that is why I have not reported AFFs most verbose when he has stated things like we are discussing. I guess that is my problem.

Carpenter
12-14-2007, 12:54 PM
Carpenter, I agree with the above 100%. I dont mind the challenge, I dont mind debating the scripture.

You have been around long enough to know that i dont even mind a good old fashioned knock down drag out brawl.

in fact that is why I have not reported AFFs most verbose when he has stated things like we are discussing. I guess that is my problem.


Ferd, who is HE?

Ferd
12-14-2007, 12:54 PM
i have been in the church for over 38 years, i believe what i have believed since a teen, i am sure there are hundreds of ideas of what orthodoxy is on this forum, i havent changed, wont change, the bible is my guide and his spirit my leader, dt:christmasjig

As far as I am concerned both the Water/Spirit doctrine and the PCI doctrine (wish I had a better term) are both "Orthodox"

but when I get called a Papist for believeing the Water/Spirit doctrine....well then I get testy.

Ferd
12-14-2007, 12:55 PM
Ferd, who is HE?

your good buddy Daniel A.

AFF's most verbose....

DividedThigh
12-14-2007, 12:56 PM
Why are you bringing change into the mix? Do you believe that is what is taking place here? An attempt to change someone's mind or belief system?


Maybe that is why you aren't having any fun?

:D

i am making a statement for my self, you make your own, i am very happy and comfortable where i am and in my god, plenty of fun for me, lol,dt:horn

Carpenter
12-14-2007, 12:58 PM
i am making a statement for my self, you make your own, i am very happy and comfortable where i am and in my god, plenty of fun for me, lol,dt:horn

Is someone telling you that you should be UNhappy and UNcomfortable because of where you are in GOD?

Why do you feel you need keep saying that? Could it be because you need to constantly re-affirm your beliefs because they are hanging by a thread?

I am asking because I know this is a rather pervasive attitude in Pentecost.

DividedThigh
12-14-2007, 12:58 PM
As far as I am concerned both the Water/Spirit doctrine and the PCI doctrine (wish I had a better term) are both "Orthodox"

but when I get called a Papist for believeing the Water/Spirit doctrine....well then I get testy.

you should bro, some people just want to fight, and have no core, we do, good for us, dt:star

Carpenter
12-14-2007, 01:00 PM
your good buddy Daniel A.

AFF's most verbose....

oooohhh, I get it.

I have to admit there are a few things D.A. has said that I agree with, things like, "It's daytime here at noon" and "People eat".

DividedThigh
12-14-2007, 01:00 PM
Is someone telling you that you should be UNhappy and UNcomfortable because of where you are in GOD?

Why do you feel you need keep saying that? Could it be because you need to constantly re-affirm your beliefs because they are hanging by a thread?

I am asking because I know this is a rather pervasive attitude in Pentecost.

sorry bro, barking up the wrong tree, i am to old to not do what i need to do, and believe what i want, happy i am, no reason to read anything into what i say, i mean what i say and say what i mean, lol,dt:bells

Carpenter
12-14-2007, 01:02 PM
sorry bro, barking up the wrong tree, i am to old to not do what i need to do, and believe what i want, happy i am, no reason to read anything into what i say, i mean what i say and say what i mean, lol,dt:bells

Alright then, I would say we need a few more like you around here.

...can you please describe what you meant earlier by being happy "in God"?

DividedThigh
12-14-2007, 01:03 PM
Alright then, I would say we need a few more like you around here.

...can you please describe what you meant earlier by being happy "in God"?

i mean comfortable in his presence, and happy with his favour bro, merry chrsitmas, lol,dt

Ferd
12-14-2007, 01:11 PM
oooohhh, I get it.

I have to admit there are a few things D.A. has said that I agree with, things like, "It's daytime here at noon" and "People eat".

Now that there is funny. I dont care who you are, that is funny!

Carpenter
12-14-2007, 01:12 PM
i mean comfortable in his presence, and happy with his favour bro, merry chrsitmas, lol,dt

Good, me too.

I remember meeting one man who I used to go to church with, a man who had witnessed miracles and was in church for years, and he still attended the smaller UPC in town while I had moved to the large UPC 5 years earlier.

I simply asked him how he was doing and he responded kind of like you..."I am doing great, I am happy where I am, I am not looking for anything else..." as though he thought the first words out of my mouth were going to try and get him to leave.

I thought, wow, that guy is really paranoid. Within 6 months, he had moved to Vegas and was back to a smokin' and a drinkin' his family in complete shambles...

Carpenter
12-14-2007, 01:13 PM
Now that there is funny. I dont care who you are, that is funny!

:D

Nahum
12-14-2007, 02:35 PM
I think your problem is my problem. we arent clicking that little triangle in the corner and reporting those who make such an accusation.

The thing that really bothers me about our friend doing this is, that time and again, I went to bat for him because I believe that his position has a place here.

however that has turned from a point of doctrine to the same kind of baseball bat, Ultra-Cons get accused of using.

Yes, it is a very INTOLERANT position, which is ironic when you really think about it.

Nahum
12-14-2007, 02:41 PM
You know what I find so interesting is that really this forum has caused me to re-think and challenge my beliefs and further my abililty to publicly state what I believe and understand about baptism and standards, and most topics having to do with doctrine, salvation, tradition, and culture, etc.

I would venture a guess that most garden variety Apostolic saint would have a difficult time were they put on the spot to totally exhaust their beliefs to someone else, and further have the abilty to instantly respond to the difficult questions posed here by various folks.

I would say that most apostolic pew sitters would break out in a cold sweat if their statement of belief was challenged from an academic standpoint and not necessarily from an antagonistic perspective.

You know why I say this? I have tried it and you know what? After the cold sweat, atomic anger and indignation follows.

I guess I said all that to say, I am glad folks can hit the topics from all sides, hopefully it gives folks a stronger ability to become an apologetic for their faith.

I think it's fine to evolve from time to time. But there comes a point when constant doctrinal questioning can become damaging.

I don't care how well built the pier is; if you ram it constantly with a dozer it's gonna bust, and everything tied to it will drift into oblivion.

I am not of the opinion that constant questioning is good. At some point strong roots need to be nurtured and protected. There comes a time when one needs to move on to new areas of discussion. This is not happening here. There is an obvious agenda.

I do think we need to be aware that a simple majority of our posters may not even be of the classic PCI/PAJC view.

TRFrance
12-15-2007, 04:56 PM
How/why would anyone accuse you of being a Mormon or papist?
how would that even come up?

Dan A says we are sacramentalist and baptismal regenerationsists like the Catholic church.

I'm not sure I've been compared to a Mormon yet!

That's pretty much what I am talking about.

I have no problem with MOW, Felicity or others who say they hold to a PCI version of doctrine. I disagree with them, but I respect them.

My problem is with those who come on here and call me a sacrementalist, papist, Mormon, holy grail protector just because I won't bend on doctrine.

It's all about agenda.

I see where you're coming from on that. I recently posted a question inquiring as to whether anyone knew of any Apostolic sites dealing with Mormonism (http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=10271&highlight=mormonism).

One of the early responses I got was this:
I don't know of any ... either.

However, some OP's hold various doctrines and practices in common w/ Mormons. Among them are:

1. Doctrine of Baptismal Regeneration
2. Proper administration of baptism mitigates salvation
3. Apostasy brought an end to Apostolic doctrine being taught, after the 1st century, and it was restored within the last 2 centuries.

Obviously, I was more than a little displeased.
I had to move quickly to prevent the thread from being taken in an unnecessary direction.

Some of these folks seem to have more zeal for bashing orthodox Oneness Pentecostals than for bashing the devil or his many false-doctrine churches out there.

SDG
12-15-2007, 05:02 PM
Can this greasy gracing Charismatic Baptist join the party???

Pass the Kleenex.

Are all moderates whiners?

mizpeh
12-15-2007, 05:06 PM
Can this greasy gracing Charismatic Baptist join the party???

Pass the Kleenex.

Are all moderates whiners?


What took you so long? :christmoose

Tina
12-15-2007, 05:09 PM
I think your problem is my problem. we arent clicking that little triangle in the corner and reporting those who make such an accusation.



:nod

SDG
12-15-2007, 05:14 PM
What took you so long? :christmoose

Christmas banquet w/ the church ... food always takes precedence.

:bells

Nahum
12-15-2007, 05:20 PM
Posted by TR France:
I see where you're coming from on that. I recently posted a question inquiring as to whether anyone knew of any Apostolic sites dealing with Mormonism.

One of the early responses I got was this:



Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
I don't know of any ... either.

However, some OP's hold various doctrines and practices in common w/ Mormons. Among them are:

1. Doctrine of Baptismal Regeneration
2. Proper administration of baptism mitigates salvation
3. Apostasy brought an end to Apostolic doctrine being taught, after the 1st century, and it was restored within the last 2 centuries.

Obviously, I was more than a little displeased.
I had to move quickly to prevent the thread from being taken in an unnecessary direction.

Some of these folks seem to have more zeal for bashing orthodox Oneness Pentecostals than for bashing the devil or his many false-doctrine churches out there.

Daniel seems to be in bed with all of the other non-Pentecostal, unfriendly-to-Pentecostal religious types with the cries of "cult!" at every turn.

By the way, I completely agree with number three on his little list of Mormon comparisons. Is anyone here really going to claim that Catholicism was the intention of Christ and His disciples?

SDG
12-15-2007, 05:22 PM
Daniel seems to be in bed with all of the other non-Pentecostal, unfriendly-to-Pentecostal religious types with the cries of "cult!" at every turn.

By the way, I completely agree with number three on his little list of Mormon comparisons. Is anyone here really going to claim that Catholicism was the intention of Christ and His disciples?

Still marginalizing yourself w/ the hysterics and hyperbole???

Nahum
12-15-2007, 05:24 PM
Still marginalizing yourself w/ the hysterics and hyperbole???

:santathumb

There you go again (Ronald Reagan). :jolly

Speak to the issues Alisayuh.

SDG
12-15-2007, 05:26 PM
:santathumb

There you go again (Ronald Reagan). :jolly

Speak to the issues Alisayuh.

The issue would be your obsession w/ me ...

But ... it's comforting to know there is another Crusader for truth standing for old landmarks.

Slow nite in Appalachia, PP?

Nahum
12-15-2007, 05:29 PM
The issue would be your obsession w/ me ...

But ... it's comforting to know there is another Crusader for truth standing for old landmarks.

Slow nite in Appalachia?


I will report this post as it seems to be of an untoward nature.

This is a discussion board reverend.

Get over it. :santathumb

SDG
12-15-2007, 05:30 PM
I will report this post as it seems to be of an untoward nature.

This is a discussion board reverend.

Get over it. :santathumb

I beat you to the punch when you opened this thread a couple of nites ago .... Suffragan Bishop. :rudolph

Nahum
12-15-2007, 05:32 PM
I beat you to the punch when you opened this thread a couple of nites ago .... Suffragan Bishop. :rudolph


Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!

SDG
12-15-2007, 05:34 PM
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!

I'll take this as divine confirmation.

mizpeh
12-15-2007, 05:46 PM
I beat you to the punch when you opened this thread a couple of nites ago .... Suffragan Bishop. :rudolph


You two need a time out! :christmaskiss

Hoovie
12-15-2007, 07:08 PM
I believe.