James Carney Speaks Out!

[staysharp]

Dear Minister Friend,

Christian Greetings! I trust all is well as we approach this year's end and you are enjoying a wonderful time of blessing during this holiday season.

I wish not to cast a negative light on such a festive season; however, I feel as though both my heartfelt sentiments and my support for a letter I received, along with many others, from Bishop G.R. Travis is of utmost importance during this time.

As you read Bishop Travis" letter, I ask you to do so with an open heart. For over two decades, Bishop Travis led our great state to revival, progress, and fulfillment of the great commission. He's weathered many storms. I truly believe God has granted him wisdom for this hour.

As my pastor, I accept and support fully the same sentiments that Bishop Travis portrays in his letter. These are, in fact, trying times for the Apostolic movement. However, our God is not the author of confusion. It's the devil's big business to confuse God's people that he might interrupt God's work. I implore you, along with our beloved Bishop, to stay the course, stay connected, stay focused, and stay on board in the global effort for the Kingdom of God.

Please accept both this letter and Bishop Travis' correspondence as they were written with pure motives, for the unity of our brethren in this great state and our great fellowship.

My prayer is that God grant us the wisdom to know what is right and the will to do it.

That we might be one,

James E. Carney

[gulfcoastbrother]

Where is Bishop Travis' letter?

[staysharp]

Where is Bishop Travis' letter?

I refer you to post #1 of "G.R. Travis enters the fray."

[tv1a]

James Cagney I know. Art Carney I know. But who is James Carney?

Looks to me like he's circling the wagons.

[staysharp]

James Cagney I know. Art Carney I know. But who is James Carney?

Looks to me like he's circling the wagons.

He is the former Dist. Supt. of Mississippi Dist. UPCI

[RevBuddy]

:stop

No, he was the Home Missions Director...but his comments on Brother Travis' letter are not "circle the wagon" in nature. They are those of a moderate, sound-thinking brother. This is the best approach to this circumstance...continue ahead with the purpose and cause of Jesus Christ. This is certainly not a time to be distracted from the true calling of the Lord Jesus...

If we allow this issue to pull us down in "the ditch," we will, no doubt, regret it later...if we continue to be mesmerized by this "issue," we will have, if fact, "missed the forest for the trees."

Footnote: The opinion above has been made by the "wisest AFF Poster of all."

[staysharp]

:stop

No, he was the Home Missions Director...but his comments on Brother Travis' letter are not "circle the wagon" in nature. They are those of a moderate, sound-thinking brother. This is the best approach to this circumstance...continue ahead with the purpose and cause of Jesus Christ. This is certainly not a time to be distracted from the true calling of the Lord Jesus...

If we allow this issue to pull us down in "the ditch," we will, no doubt, regret it later...if we continue to be mesmerized by this "issue," we will have, if fact, "missed the forest for the trees."

Footnote: The opinion above has been made by the "wisest AFF Poster of all."

MIckey I luv you, but Bro. Carney was the former DIst. Supt. May want to reck your facts. Just look at the Borat footage and you'll see him on the platform smiling proudly.

[RevBuddy]

I deeply offended... :razz

It's NOT Mickey... it's MIGHTY!! There is a significant and distinct difference! Please do not associate me with the sullied world of Disney...

Oh, and being on the platform doesn't make you superintendent...sorry.

I am, and remain, Mighty Mouse. :tiphat

[staysharp]

I deeply offended... :razz

It's NOT Mickey... it's MIGHTY!! There is a significant and distinct difference! Please do not associate me with the sullied world of Disney...

Oh, and being on the platform doesn't make you superintendent...sorry.

I am, and remain, Mighty Mouse. :tiphat

Well, you might be a mighty mouse, but your facts aren't so mighty. He served 4 years after G.R. Travis and resigned last June. Bro. James Sandy took his place.

[seguidordejesus]

Well, you might be a mighty mouse, but your facts aren't so mighty. He served 4 years after G.R. Travis and resigned last June. Bro. James Sandy took his place.

That's a stubborn mouse, isn't it? JC was most definitely DS for a time :)

[RevBuddy]

I was just kidding...but you guys want to take it sooooooo seriously...

Yes, he was superintendent...for a season.

[staysharp]

I was just kidding...but you guys want to take it sooooooo seriously...

Yes, he was superintendent...for a season.

You must think we have the gift of discernment...

[gulfcoastbrother]

yes he was. And probably the most progressive one in MS's history. He resigned partly because he doesn't want to fight the ultra cons in that district.

FYI...Woodlawn has done away with their Sunday night service effective January.

[revrandy]

yes he was. And probably the most progressive one in MS's history. He resigned partly because he doesn't want to fight the ultra cons in that district.

FYI...Woodlawn has done away with their Sunday night service effective January.


Is he still pretty tight with NW??

[staysharp]

yes he was. And probably the most progressive one in MS's history. He resigned partly because he doesn't want to fight the ultra cons in that district.

FYI...Woodlawn has done away with their Sunday night service effective January.

I really liked JC, he has had some health problems of late. He is more liberal than he lets on. I am very disappointed in Bro. Sandy's leadership. The district really had potential to move forward. The problem with MS. District is jealousy.

When a pastor is progressive, they try to shut him down. Most of the guys that are succeeding numerically are called compromisers and end up leaving the fellowship. I predict a few more big names will be gone shortly.

[revrandy]

I really liked JC, he has had some health problems of late. He is more liberal than he lets on. I am very disappointed in Bro. Sandy's leadership. The district really had potential to move forward. The problem with MS. District is jealousy.

When a pastor is progressive, they try to shut him down. Most of the guys that are succeeding numerically are called compromisers and end up leaving the fellowship. I predict a few more big names will be gone shortly.


That seems to run in many places...

[gulfcoastbrother]

look at James website, www.woodlawnchurch.cc

Has a VERY CHARASMATIC look.
They have dropped upc on the title!

[revrandy]

look at James website, www.woodlawnchurch.cc

Has a VERY CHARASMATIC look.
They have dropped upc on the title!

Seems more like a "They want to reach people look to me".....

[staysharp]

Seems more like a "They want to reach people look to me".....

Woodlawn's stationary used to say "a community of Spirit filled believers"; now it says, "a United Pentecostal community of faith."

Somebody is running skeered.

[gulfcoastbrother]

My point exactly, the want to reach people. BUT the ultra cons who have ran 50 for 50 years think they are charasmatic

[revrandy]

My point exactly, the want to reach people. BUT the ultra cons who have ran 50 for 50 years think they are charasmatic

Cuz' they use color on their website???? :D

[deltaguitar]

Cuz' they use color on their website???? :D

It is really a sad situation. A whole district held hostage by folks who are very insecure.

[PastorD]

look at James website, www.woodlawnchurch.cc

Has a VERY CHARASMATIC look.
They have dropped upc on the title!


and this would be your problem in MS . . . He is charasmatic because he dropped UPC on the title?

[delta soundman]

Ministers like Bro. Carney are very scarey to the old guard that still represent the MS District. The MS District is second probably only to the CA District in it's right wing legalism. The date on the wall may have changed but it's still the 50's to these folks.

[staysharp]

Ministers like Bro. Carney are very scarey to the old guard that still represent the MS District. The MS District is second probably only to the CA District in it's right wing legalism. The date on the wall may have changed but it's still the 50's to these folks.

A very close source described his term as Supt. as "four years of hell." You couldn't pay him enough money to return.

[PastorD]

A very close source described his term as Supt. as "four years of hell." You couldn't pay him enough money to return.

JC is one of my closest friends. He wouldn't describe it as "four years of hell". His church is in a growing season and he felt its momentum was suffering with him being gone so much. He actually loves helping other ministers and the challenge of turning district around, but wasn't worth his church losing ground.

[deltaguitar]

Well just compare it to the Louisiana District. There is one UPC church in Mississippi within a solid hour from my house in any direction. However, I could make it to probably 10 UPC churches in that same time if I decided to head down to Louisiana.

What is the difference?

[staysharp]

JC is one of my closest friends. He wouldn't describe it as "four years of hell". His church is in a growing season and he felt its momentum was suffering with him being gone so much. He actually loves helping other ministers and the challenge of turning district around, but wasn't worth his church losing ground.

Or his health...

[revrandy]

I have always heard Bro. Carney is a great man both personally and publicly.... You don't build a church like his and not be...

[staysharp]

Well just compare it to the Louisiana District. There is one UPC church in Mississippi within a solid hour from my house in any direction. However, I could make it to probably 10 UPC churches in that same time if I decided to head down to Louisiana.

What is the difference?

Well, if you head to LA most of those churches are splits of each other. A small town of 10K can have 5 churches.

MS. promoted ignorance and jealousy and that always hinders the work of God.

[staysharp]

I have always heard Bro. Carney is a great man both personally and publicly.... You don't build a church like his and not be...

He didn't build it. He has done a great work, doubled in size in 20 years if you call that revival.

[PastorD]

I have always heard Bro. Carney is a great man both personally and publicly.... You don't build a church like his and not be...

He honestly is one of the best men you will ever know. Very balanced. Lib's and Con's respect him. Just a good guy . . .

[revrandy]

JC is one of my closest friends. He wouldn't describe it as "four years of hell". His church is in a growing season and he felt its momentum was suffering with him being gone so much. He actually loves helping other ministers and the challenge of turning district around, but wasn't worth his church losing ground.

He didn't build it. He has done a great work, doubled in size in 20 years if you call that revival.


I would agree with you..if most of the folks there came from other churches... I don't know anything about his church...

I have been in churches....rather large ones where the majority of the congregation had come in from other churches... I don't consider that revival either....

[gulfcoastbrother]

He built it....Floyd was running 175 in 87. Now how many do they run, in a 12 million dollar sanctuary??? JC built it.

[staysharp]

He built it....Floyd was running 175 in 87. Now how many do they run, in a 12 million dollar sanctuary??? JC built it.

450 or so. JC didn't build it, TW built it. Again, 20 years and 250 people more is around 12.5 people per year, 1.5 per month. Sounds like revival to me.

[deltaguitar]

He honestly is one of the best men you will ever know. Very balanced. Lib's and Con's respect him. Just a good guy . . .

He is very friendly. I met him at the District Golf Tourney. He walked right up to me, introduced himself, and started a conversation. I didn't even know who he was and he didn't try to awe me with who he was.

[PastorD]

He didn't build it. He has done a great work, doubled in size in 20 years if you call that revival.



I was just there mid-November. They had 637 on Sunday am with more than 100 absentee's. When he took it, he lost down to 90 people in the transition. There is no doubt there has been some swelling . . . people always want to be where it's at. However, there is revival there....they are reaching their community with many people receiving the HG. I have been there and prayed many, many of them through.

[staysharp]

He is very friendly. I met him at the District Golf Tourney. He walked right up to me, introduced himself, and started a conversation. I didn't even know who he was and he didn't try to awe me with who he was.

That's because you're a famous guitar player, did he ask for your autograph?

[revrandy]

450 or so. JC didn't build it, TW built it. Again, 20 years and 250 people more is around 12.5 people per year, 1.5 per month. Sounds like revival to me.

What does your church run??

Are you having a Revival??

[staysharp]

I was just there mid-November. They had 637 on Sunday am with more than 100 absentee's. When he took it, he lost down to 90 people in the transition. There is no doubt there has been some swelling . . . people always want to be where it's at. However, there is revival there....they are reaching their community with many people receiving the HG. I have been there and prayed many, many of them through.

I have no doubt you are correct. I am not discounting his work, he is a good man. I have high admiration for him, I was looking at his SS report average over the last year.

[staysharp]

What does your church run??

Are you having a Revival??

Absolutely! Just started 4 months ago, running 90-100! Of course we are considered charismatic, that's why. We let anybody come.

[gulfcoastbrother]

Staysharp, which state are u in?

[revrandy]

Staysharp, which state are u in?

Careful now.... don't be gunning for this man..... :D

[PastorD]

450 or so. JC didn't build it, TW built it. Again, 20 years and 250 people more is around 12.5 people per year, 1.5 per month. Sounds like revival to me.

That is admiration?

[staysharp]

Staysharp, which state are u in?

If I told you, I'd have to kill you...

[staysharp]

That is admiration?

Would u state this church could've been built without TW? You know better than that.

[deltaguitar]

450 or so. JC didn't build it, TW built it. Again, 20 years and 250 people more is around 12.5 people per year, 1.5 per month. Sounds like revival to me.

They are in a growing area as well which will contribute to church growth.

Compare it to the church I was a part of in Mississippi, they went from around 220 in attendance just a few years ago to probably around 80 now. The whole time I was in that church (27 year) I could count about 10 folks that didnt' come from other Apostolic churches. It basically just absorbed the surrounding churches.

[staysharp]

They are in a growing area as well which will contribute to church growth.

Compare it to the church I was a part of in Mississippi, they went from around 220 in attendance just a few years ago to probably around 80 now. The whole time I was in that church (27 year) I could count about 10 folks that didnt' come from other Apostolic churches. It basically just absorbed the surrounding churches.

Yes, Katrina helped. Even though they are considered rural, folks drive a long way.

[PastorD]

Would u state this church could've been built without TW? You know better than that.



Just the same that your church can not be built without the 90-100 you have coming. But no one is saying.....SS didn't build it-90/100 built it.

No doubt TW is a blessing, but I think you would be shocked to know that everything you assume is not completely true.

[gulfcoastbrother]

Don't think for one minute they would have the building they have today if TW wasn't there.

[gulfcoastbrother]

Let me say one more thing....ALL visiting ministers and missionaries are well taken care of that comes through those doors. They are a very giving church and that is why TW and the church are blessed.

[staysharp]

Just the same that your church can not be built without the 90-100 you have coming. But no one is saying.....SS didn't build it-90/100 built it.

No doubt TW is a blessing, but I think you would be shocked to know that everything you assume is not completely true.

No assumptions sir, TW is very wealthy. He probably makes more in a week than the 90 of mine make in a year.

[staysharp]

Let me say one more thing....ALL visiting ministers and missionaries are well taken care of that comes through those doors. They are a very giving church and that is why TW and the church are blessed.

I have no doubt that is true.

[deltaguitar]

Absolutely! Just started 4 months ago, running 90-100! Of course we are considered charismatic, that's why. We let anybody come.

Revival doesn't always mean numbers. I would hope we would get to the point that the Kingdom of God is advanced and not our little kingdom. I don't know how many spirit filled churches are in my area but wouldn't it be awesome if they all increased in number. Maybe we could influence them for the good.

I know of two COG, about four AOG, one UPC, probably three independant Apostolic churches, and even a few Baptist churches that would be open to the moving of the Holy Ghost withen five minutes of my church. What would happen if we all worked together?

What would happen if we just showed Christ love to each other instead of telling them they are going to hell because they belive in THREE GODS or wear a fossil watch.

[PastorD]

Don't think for one minute they would have the building they have today if TW wasn't there.


No...they wouldn't have that building, but they would have a nice one just the same.

BTW...they are about to start on another family life or education. Yeah, Katrina was good to em.

[PastorD]

No assumptions sir, TW is very wealthy. He probably makes more in a week than the 90 of mine make in a year.

He keeps telling me he is poor, pitiful, and retired. :jolly


I will take his poor, pitiful, and retired any day! :gift

[staysharp]

Revival doesn't always mean numbers. I would hope we would get to the point that the Kingdom of God is advanced and not our little kingdom. I don't know how many spirit filled churches are in my area but wouldn't it be awesome if they all increased in number. Maybe we could influence them for the good.

I know of two COG, about four AOG, one UPC, probably three independant Apostolic churches, and even a few Baptist churches that would be open to the moving of the Holy Ghost withen five minutes of my church. What would happen if we all worked together?

What would happen if we just showed Christ love to each other instead of telling them they are going to hell because they belive in THREE GODS or wear a fossil watch.

Everybody knows wearing a fossil watch is a sin. Didn't your momma teach you anything? By the way, they don't believe in three Gods, they believe in three persons in one God. :santathumb

[staysharp]

He keeps telling me he is poor, pitiful, and retired. :jolly


I will take his poor, pitiful, and retired any day! :gift

You got that right! Tired yes I'm sure, he's probably in his mid 70's I would think? His daughter is handling a lot of the day to day business.

[gulfcoastbrother]

James is anything BUT poor. There are more people than TW in that church with $$..Pastor D, has Bro Carney told u his reason for dismissing Sunday night service in January indefinitely.

[Straightline]

...As my pastor, I accept and support fully the same sentiments that Bishop Travis portrays in his letter.



Was Bro. Travis actually Bro. Carney's pastor at one point?


You won't get tied up in knots
by maintaining a
Straightline

[gulfcoastbrother]

probably not technically....there is probably a more District Supt connection.

[PreacherV]

He is very friendly. I met him at the District Golf Tourney. He walked right up to me, introduced himself, and started a conversation. I didn't even know who he was and he didn't try to awe me with who he was.


Well, there you go. He's friendly, he plays golf, and is kind to a musician that probably uses demonic-like distortion effects on his geetar. He is definitely an ultra-lib. lol. In this case, it doesn't matter whether he built it or not...because he evidently is running a semi-sanctified Pennycostal QuikTrip not a bonafide without spot, wrinkle, or any such thing CHURCH!

Hey, Pastor D....what's the latest on that sticky situation with J and N? :jolly

[PastorD]

James is anything BUT poor. There are more people than TW in that church with $$..Pastor D, has Bro Carney told u his reason for dismissing Sunday night service in January indefinitely.

He has, but you would just think they are charasmatic reasons. :jolly

[PastorD]

Well, there you go. He's friendly, he plays golf, and is kind to a musician that probably uses demonic-like distortion effects on his geetar. He is definitely an ultra-lib. lol. In this case, it doesn't matter whether he built it or not...because he evidently is running a semi-sanctified Pennycostal QuikTrip not a bonafide without spot, wrinkle, or any such thing CHURCH!

Hey, Pastor D....what's the latest on that sticky situation with J and N? :jolly

V...you are a funny man. :christmaskiss

[PreacherV]

Was Bro. Travis actually Bro. Carney's pastor at one point?


You won't get tied up in knots
by maintaining a
Straightline

If he was district super of MS while Carney was pastoring in MS, then yes he was. Pastor=overseer Presbyter=Overseer of pastors Super=Overseer of presbys and pastors, etc. etc.

Of course, there are some pastors to whom this concept is foreign. They feel like they are only accountable to God himself.

I also have pastors who are no longer my pastor in the sense of attending their church, but I still consider them to be my pastors in that I still go to them for guidance and voluntarily hold myself accountable to them.
PASTORS ARE GOOD FOR AMERICA!!!!:nod

[staysharp]

If he was district super of MS while Carney was pastoring in MS, then yes he was. Pastor=overseer Presbyter=Overseer of pastors Super=Overseer of presbys and pastors, etc. etc.

Of course, there are some pastors to whom this concept is foreign. They feel like they are only accountable to God himself.

I also have pastors who are no longer my pastor in the sense of attending their church, but I still consider them to be my pastors in that I still go to them for guidance and voluntarily hold myself accountable to them.
PASTORS ARE GOOD FOR AMERICA!!!!:nod

I'm wondering why Bro. Odom is not his pastor? He sat under his ministry for a number of years.

[staysharp]

He has, but you would just think they are charasmatic reasons. :jolly

Like why do the same thing twice in a day? Like people are tired, running around like chicken with their heads cut off and won't go to both services?

Like it takes two to work and raise a family to support our high maintenance lifestyle? Keeping up with the Jones' is hindering revival!!!

People need to be in church, you won't make heaven if you don't have two services on Sunday!!!

[PreacherV]

I'm wondering why Bro. Odom is not his pastor? He sat under his ministry for a number of years.

I must confess that I also have had pastors that I no longer consider my pastor. We kind of pick and choose the ones that remain in our lives even after we have moved on to other places of ministry.

[staysharp]

I must confess that I also have had pastors that I no longer consider my pastor. We kind of pick and choose the ones that remain in our lives even after we have moved on to other places of ministry.

Very convenient. Usually the ones we agree with?

[PreacherV]

I'm wondering why Bro. Odom is not his pastor? He sat under his ministry for a number of years.

Very convenient. Usually the ones we agree with?

Usually....or can disagree without being disagreeable.

[PastorD]

Like why do the same thing twice in a day? Like people are tired, running around like chicken with their heads cut off and won't go to both services?

Like it takes two to work and raise a family to support our high maintenance lifestyle? Keeping up with the Jones' is hindering revival!!!

People need to be in church, you won't make heaven if you don't have two services on Sunday!!!


There's some reasons.


Do you do two on Sunday?

[staysharp]

There's some reasons.


Do you do two on Sunday?

Actually I was being facetious. I have classes on two Sunday nights a month. I have folks who drive 45 - 60 minutes and it's hard to make two services.

[PastorD]

Actually I was being facetious. I have classes on two Sunday nights a month. I have folks who drive 45 - 60 minutes and it's hard to make two services.

I knew you were. I was just curious as to your schedule.