Can Apostolics be Democrats?

[ManOfWord]

Since the Democratic party platform is primarily liberal to the core, believing in:

Abortion on demand
Gay Marriage & gays as a special interest group
BIG government
More government control of citizen's lives
Silencing the Christian voice in America
Removing the 10 commandments

and a host of other causes that are un-biblical..........can a true Apostolic be a Democrat who believes in these things and please God?




Just wondering. This will be the first election that I will be voting as a registered Independent. :D

[Carpenter]

Since the Democratic party platform is primarily liberal to the core, believing in:

Abortion on demand
Gay Marriage & gays as a special interest group
BIG government
More government control of citizen's lives
Silencing the Christian voice in America
Removing the 10 commandments

and a host of other causes that are un-biblical..........can a true Apostolic be a Democrat who believes in these things and please God?




Just wondering. This will be the first election that I will be voting as a registered Independent. :D


IF and only if you were to be a Roosevelt Democrat...but then again you would also have to be alive.

:D

[Ferd]

Roosevelt was a communist.

No. no self respecting christian can be a democrat.

[DividedThigh]

that is a good question i actually know a few that are dems, but it is rooted in there family traditions, or whatever other reason i am not sure, one couple is a good friend of mine and for the life of me i cant figure how they can do it, for all the reasons listed, dt:santathumb

[winklebottom]

Why would any God fearing christian of ANY religion want to be a Democrat?? I think they will have some 'splanin to do....'!!

[JamDat]

I wouldn't think so, but the Republicans aren't much better.

[dizzyde]

IF and only if you were to be a Roosevelt Democrat...but then again you would also have to be alive.

:D

Roosevelt was a communist.

No. no self respecting christian can be a democrat.

Why would any God fearing christian of ANY religion want to be a Democrat?? I think they will have some 'splanin to do....'!!

My grandparents are, it appalls them that my father is republican, and they are the most godly, God-fearing people I know.

They are still in the mindset of the 40's & 50's, and no amount of arguing will convince them otherwise. These are people who have always worked themselves to the bone, they do not listen to radio, read the newspaper or watch TV, so they have no real concept of how much the world has changed, especially politically.

[Monkeyman]

Yes, my deceased mother was one...So I don't appreciate the comments.

[Monkeyman]

What about following people who start wars by lies, should a self respecting Christian vote for them...What about giving arms to terrorists in all areas of the world, but I will settle on Afghanistan and Nicaraugra...2 sides to every story. Btw, I have always voted republican, but that isn't my point.

[Carpenter]

Roosevelt was a communist.

No. no self respecting christian can be a democrat.

No, Roosevelt had socialist leanings with his New Deal. He was viewed as a president for the working people, that is why so many old-timers are still Democrat despite all their current demonic positions.

Today FDR along with JFK would be considered conservative and Republican.

This is evidenced by the exact reasons Ronald Reagan switched from the Democratic party to the Republican party and further became the Godfather of the contemporary conservative movement. He could have been considered a Roosevelt Republican.

Cmon Ferd...

[Carpenter]

My grandparents are, it appalls them that my father is republican, and they are the most godly, God-fearing people I know.

They are still in the mindset of the 40's & 50's, and no amount of arguing will convince them otherwise. These are people who have always worked themselves to the bone, they do not listen to radio, read the newspaper or watch TV, so they have no real concept of how much the world has changed, especially politically.

Exactly, case in point to my post above.

[dizzyde]

The other side of the coin is, how much have the republican presidents actually done to stop or change any of the things listed.

IMO, all politicians are bought and sold so many times by the time they reach the White House, they are virtually ineffectual anyways.

I'm not a democrat, but I wouldn't consider myself a republican anymore either.

[Margies3]

My mother and I both work the elections every voting day - me as a registered Republican, she as a registered Democrat. Both of solid Christian Bible-believing women.

I would register as an Independent except for the fact that I enjoy working on election day and there is no space at the table for an Independent.

So I just vote for the one who I feel is the best for the job and don't even check to see what denomination they are.

[Carpenter]

What about following people who start wars by lies, should a self respecting Christian vote for them...What about giving arms to terrorists in all areas of the world, but I will settle on Afghanistan and Nicaraugra...2 sides to every story. Btw, I have always voted republican, but that isn't my point.

What IS your point?

I am not sure the initial post in this thread said anything about comparing the two or which is the greater party...

[dizzyde]

What about following people who start wars by lies, should a self respecting Christian vote for them...What about giving arms to terrorists in all areas of the world, but I will settle on Afghanistan and Nicaraugra...2 sides to every story. Btw, I have always voted republican, but that isn't my point.


:amen

What I don't understand is how the "christian" republicans can ignore all this stuff.

[Carpenter]

The other side of the coin is, how much have the republican presidents actually done to stop or change any of the things listed.

IMO, all politicians are bought and sold so many times by the time they reach the White House, they are virtually ineffectual anyways.

I'm not a democrat, but I wouldn't consider myself a republican anymore either.

I am republican, I will vote republican, and I do not believe that you can be politically or socially liberal and still believe that every word in the Bible is true.

Republican presidents appoint conservative judges (not necessarily that all of them maintain their views), and I would rather take the chance of appointing a conservative hoping he has strong convictions read: Justice Thomas and Scallia, than appointing a flat out liberal radical read: Justice Ginsberg.

[winklebottom]

Yes, my deceased mother was one...So I don't appreciate the comments.

I have always felt the Republican Party has fit my way of life. I CANNOT say I agree with all they stand for...but most. I DID NOT mean to offend anyone with my comment about being God fearing, because we will all have to answer for everything we say and do some day. Even old winklebottom!!!

[Carpenter]

:amen

What I don't understand is how the "christian" republicans can ignore all this stuff.

Define ignore, and please let us know what you would have us to do?

[Ferd]

My mother and I both work the elections every voting day - me as a registered Republican, she as a registered Democrat. Both of solid Christian Bible-believing women.

I would register as an Independent except for the fact that I enjoy working on election day and there is no space at the table for an Independent.

So I just vote for the one who I feel is the best for the job and don't even check to see what denomination they are.

My grandfather was the senior elected official in the state of Louisiana when he died.

He was president of the Democratic Executive committe from 1939ish to 1996. He never once voted for a democrat for president! LOL!

[Ferd]

I am republican, I will vote republican, and I do not believe that you can be politically or socially liberal and still believe that every word in the Bible is true.

Republican presidents appoint conservative judges (not necessarily that all of them maintain their views), and I would rather take the chance of appointing a conservative hoping he has strong convictions read: Justice Thomas and Scallia, than appointing a flat out liberal radical read: Justice Ginsberg.

Bows head, clasps hands and says "AMEN"

[dizzyde]

Define ignore, and please let us know what you would have us to do?

My problem is, and realize that I am coming from a very republican family (other than the grandparents, of course) is that when you bring up the issues like the war for instance (which I am not going to go into all the reasons that I am opposed to at the moment, that is a whole different discussion) there is always this kind of shrug your shoulders response. As if one right negates the other wrong.

I just think that the republicans=christians idea is wrong. I would never vote against my beliefs, but then again, I don't believe that voting republican should be automatic. That is what got my grandparents in the situation they are in. Things and times change, when they started voting democrat, the issues were entirely different from what they are now.

[BrotherEastman]

Roosevelt was a communist.

No. no self respecting christian can be a democrat.
You're right, but niether should a christian be a republican.

[Monkeyman]

What IS your point?

I am not sure the initial post in this thread said anything about comparing the two or which is the greater party...Funny Carp, if I had a nickle for everytime I heard that, I could afford to take YOU to Ruth Chris Steakhouse!

My point is addressing the question, "Can Apostolics be Democrats?" The case was made that due to the fact that Democratic leaders have made unbibilical choices, "No self respecting Christian would be a Democrat". I would reply, using that logic, No self respecting Christian would be a Republican. Both sides have made some unbiblical decisions...yet, I believe any self respecting Christian can choose to be either.

[Ferd]

Diz, in part I agree. while I dont see how a christian could vote for a Dem. that does not mean voting for Republicans is one's Christian duty.

However right now, I think stopping the dems from getting elected IS ones christian duty.

there will be 2, possibly 3 supreme court appointments in the next cycle. one is the most liberal judge on the court. (John Paul Stephens) the other is the swing vote (Justice Kennedy)

moving both of those to the right CHANGES AMERICA.

As for the war in Iraq, dont believe the media.

[Ferd]

You're right, but niether should a christian be a republican.

well a christian CAN be a republican but doesnt HAVE to be.

[vrblackwell]

Since the Democratic party platform is primarily liberal to the core, believing in:

Abortion on demand
Gay Marriage & gays as a special interest group
BIG government
More government control of citizen's lives
Silencing the Christian voice in America
Removing the 10 commandments

and a host of other causes that are un-biblical..........can a true Apostolic be a Democrat who believes in these things and please God?




Just wondering. This will be the first election that I will be voting as a registered Independent. :D



"God once winked at ignorance, but now requires every man to repent".

In light of the above scripture, I don't see how.:lol

[Apprehended]

Since the Democratic party platform is primarily liberal to the core, believing in:

Abortion on demand
Gay Marriage & gays as a special interest group
BIG government
More government control of citizen's lives
Silencing the Christian voice in America
Removing the 10 commandments

and a host of other causes that are un-biblical..........can a true Apostolic be a Democrat who believes in these things and please God?




Just wondering. This will be the first election that I will be voting as a registered Independent. :D

But of course. The only requirement for such an Apostolic...NO CONSCIENCE. That is not problmatic...there seems to be no shortages of such creatures.

[Monkeyman]

well a christian CAN be a republican but doesnt HAVE to be.Now we are going in circles Ferd, he he! You must be high off of the fumes from your Viking stove or some other high end appliance that you great chefs use! J/K

When we meet in heaven, we will shake hands and praise God. I'm sure I will recognize you...you will be wearing the Ronald Reagan T-shirt!!!!! Haaaaa

[Ferd]

Now we are going in circles Ferd, he he! You must be high off of the fumes from your Viking stove or some other high end appliance that you great chefs use! J/K

When we meet in heaven, we will shake hands and praise God. I'm sure I will recognize you...you will be wearing the Ronald Reagan T-shirt!!!!! Haaaaa

I hope you had one hand over your heart when you typed the words "Ronald Reagan"!

it is required you know.

[RevBuddy]

In a word...


NO... :beatdeadhorse I'm beating a dead Democratic donkey!!!!

:tiphat

[dizzyde]

Diz, in part I agree. while I dont see how a christian could vote for a Dem. that does not mean voting for Republicans is one's Christian duty.

However right now, I think stopping the dems from getting elected IS ones christian duty.

there will be 2, possibly 3 supreme court appointments in the next cycle. one is the most liberal judge on the court. (John Paul Stephens) the other is the swing vote (Justice Kennedy)

moving both of those to the right CHANGES AMERICA.

As for the war in Iraq, dont believe the media.

I am in agreement with your points, I think you understand mine. I am not saying that I will not vote republican, but what I do vote for will not be a party.

As for the war, I do not believe the media, but I do believe fact, and I know who's pockets have been lined by this war, and I know how many have lost their lives for it. One other point, how do you think your children and grandchildren are going to survive under the burden of debt that is being left to them. Current national deficit is $9.1 Trillion and counting.

[Ferd]

No, Roosevelt had socialist leanings with his New Deal. He was viewed as a president for the working people, that is why so many old-timers are still Democrat despite all their current demonic positions.

Today FDR along with JFK would be considered conservative and Republican.

This is evidenced by the exact reasons Ronald Reagan switched from the Democratic party to the Republican party and further became the Godfather of the contemporary conservative movement. He could have been considered a Roosevelt Republican.

Cmon Ferd...

I will give you JFK. Roosevelt was right on American Hegemony he was not right on social policy. Uncle Ronny disagreed with Roosevelt on social security and Uncle Ronny was right.

FDR was a marxist when it came to economic policy.

[Ferd]

I am in agreement with your points, I think you understand mine. I am not saying that I will not vote republican, but what I do vote for will not be a party.

As for the war, I do not believe the media, but I do believe fact, and I know who's pockets have been lined by this war, and I know how many have lost their lives for it. One other point, how do you think your children and grandchildren are going to survive under the burden of debt that is being left to them. Current national deficit is $9.1 Trillion and counting.

Diz, that diatribe about whos pockets are being lined by this war is an old tired and off base back door attack by whacked out liberals who are feeding off peoples fears.

I think the deficit is outrageous but I also think muslims with bombs strapped to their chests need to be dealt with in some location other than the streets of America.

my kids will have a harder time surviving with muslim terrorists trying to kill them than by dealing with the deficit.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Is Monkeyman going to be sneaking across the border and voting on Super Tuesday?!?!?

:hmmm








Thad long has said he was voting for Hillary. He voted Democratic because he said they would spend more on his roads. Thad IS a Christian.

[dizzyde]

Diz, that diatribe about whos pockets are being lined by this war is an old tired and off base back door attack by whacked out liberals who are feeding off peoples fears.

I think the deficit is outrageous but I also think muslims with bombs strapped to their chests need to be dealt with in some location other than the streets of America.

my kids will have a harder time surviving with muslim terrorists trying to kill them than by dealing with the deficit.

I am not a whacked out liberal and have researched the numbers myself.

[OneAccord]

Since the Democratic party platform is primarily liberal to the core, believing in:

Abortion on demand
Gay Marriage & gays as a special interest group
BIG government
More government control of citizen's lives
Silencing the Christian voice in America
Removing the 10 commandments

and a host of other causes that are un-biblical..........can a true Apostolic be a Democrat who believes in these things and please God?


can a true Apostolic be a Democrat who believes in these things and please God



Just wondering. This will be the first election that I will be voting as a registered Independent. :D

If a person BELIEVES these things you listed, he or she is not Apostolic. How they vote is their business. Just becuase they are registered as DEMOCRAT, that doesn't mean they agree with or support all DEMOCRAT paltform positions. I'm sure ALL Republicans do not agree with ALL Republicans positions. How they vote, or what party, they are registered with has no bearing whatsoever with whether they are Christian or not. Its what they BELIEVE in their heart.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

I am not a whacked out liberal and have researched the numbers myself.

I am conservative and I have researched the numbers.

The Republicans do not have anything left to offer the masses.

The new voters don't remember Jimmy Carter and 24% unemployment and 24% interest rates. They don't remember it took 3 FULL years of recession to bring out some change that has been ongoing now for 27 years of prosperity. The gimme crowd hears that health care will cost them less and to them they don't want to research the fact that someone someplace has to pay for the $58 bottle of eye drops Medicare was charged when my wife was in the hospital recently. They don't know what a mess Medicare is as socialized medicine and don't want to know more except that they are going to get FREE drugs and not have to pay the doctor. The gimme crowd does not know what it was to have tried to get a job in 1981-1983 because they were not born. They know they have always known Nintendo and Microwaves and that to their mind is like Star Trek- done in an instant. They know paperplates and McDonald's throw away wrappers.

And to them Bill Clinton was great, because he had a cute daughter and he was on MTV playing his sax. To them there is no moral absolutes for lying, murder, rape and extramarital sex.

In other words, America has a challenge.

:rant

[Nahum]

Questions for those who voted for Republicans in the last few elections.

1. Where is our gay marriage ammendment?
2. Why are our "conservative" legislators so in love with pork barrel spending?
3. Why did our President erode our privacy rights as no other before him has?
4. How many Republicans are for gay marriage and abortion?




I really don't see much difference between the two parties any more.

I think Republicans treat the Fundamentalist Christians just like Democrats treat African-Americans. They use fear and lies and all sorts of silly promises to motivate us to vote for them and then never follow through and get anything done.

[Neck]

Since the Democratic party platform is primarily liberal to the core, believing in:

Abortion on demand
Gay Marriage & gays as a special interest group
BIG government
More government control of citizen's lives
Silencing the Christian voice in America
Removing the 10 commandments

and a host of other causes that are un-biblical..........can a true Apostolic be a Democrat who believes in these things and please God?


Just wondering. This will be the first election that I will be voting as a registered Independent. :D



I am having a hard time justifying my being repulican not to others but to God.

:gift

[Ferd]

I am not a whacked out liberal and have researched the numbers myself.

I was not refering to you....however i would be interested in seeing this research and where it comes from.

[Ferd]

Questions for those who voted for Republicans in the last few elections.

1. Where is our gay marriage ammendment?
2. Why are our "conservative" legislators so in love with pork barrel spending?
3. Why did our President erode our privacy rights as no other before him has?
4. How many Republicans are for gay marriage and abortion?




I really don't see much difference between the two parties any more.

I think Republicans treat the Fundamentalist Christians just like Democrats treat African-Americans. They use fear and lies and all sorts of silly promises to motivate us to vote for them and then never follow through and get anything done.
we cannot out reach the attitude of the supreme court. however, Judge Alito and Roberts go a long way to answering your questions in a way that we should like.

as for the other questions, we are in a death match with a mindset bent on seeing American distroyed. that has ramifications.

also care to point out these privacy rights you are refering to?

[Hoovie]

Since the Democratic party platform is primarily liberal to the core, believing in:

Abortion on demand
Gay Marriage & gays as a special interest group
BIG government
More government control of citizen's lives
Silencing the Christian voice in America
Removing the 10 commandments

and a host of other causes that are un-biblical..........can a true Apostolic be a Democrat who believes in these things and please God?


Just wondering. This will be the first election that I will be voting as a registered Independent. :D

The answer is YES - even though it is like a camel going through the eye of a needle. I liken it to a practicing Catholic being a Born Again Christian - so many conflicts!

[Hoovie]

Questions for those who voted for Republicans in the last few elections.

1. Where is our gay marriage ammendment?
2. Why are our "conservative" legislators so in love with pork barrel spending?
3. Why did our President erode our privacy rights as no other before him has?
4. How many Republicans are for gay marriage and abortion?




I really don't see much difference between the two parties any more.

I think Republicans treat the Fundamentalist Christians just like Democrats treat African-Americans. They use fear and lies and all sorts of silly promises to motivate us to vote for them and then never follow through and get anything done.

EXACTLY!

I would add a #5 though... We must seal our leaky borders, and neither party is up to it!

[Thad]

I am a Prrrrrroud DEMOCRAT! :yahoo:yahoo:yahoo



Deal With it Brother FERD :tease:tease:tease:tease





.

[ManOfWord]

Questions for those who voted for Republicans in the last few elections.

1. Where is our gay marriage ammendment?
2. Why are our "conservative" legislators so in love with pork barrel spending?
3. Why did our President erode our privacy rights as no other before him has?
4. How many Republicans are for gay marriage and abortion?




I really don't see much difference between the two parties any more.

I think Republicans treat the Fundamentalist Christians just like Democrats treat African-Americans. They use fear and lies and all sorts of silly promises to motivate us to vote for them and then never follow through and get anything done.

The difference between the parties is narrowing. I will be a registered Independent because the Republican party has "used and abused" me for the last time. I won't say what I feel like...but it won't happen again.

I thought this thread might cause some discussion, but I didn't think it would be this much. All the posts are good food for thought.

I guess one could be a "DINO" or a "RINO" and not hold to the party's platform. Kind of hard to blur the lines though. :D

[pelathais]

What about following people who start wars by lies, should a self respecting Christian vote for them...
Who did you have in mind here?

[Neck]

I am a Prrrrrroud DEMOCRAT! :yahoo:yahoo:yahoo



Deal With it Brother FERD :tease:tease:tease:tease





.

Thad Robbins

[Thad]

Thad Robbins



Thad Robbins??

[Sam]

Can Apostolics be Democrats?
Yes, they can.
However, I don't understand how they could in all good conscience espouse the principles of the Democratic Party. I'm not putting anyone down. These are just philosophical differences among Christians.

My father-in-law was a good man. He had been baptized in the Spirit and loved the Lord, yet he was a card carrying member of the Teamsters Union and always voted Democrat. He told me one time, "I would vote for a n..... if they ran him on the Democratic ticket."

[SoCaliUPC]

I am a Prrrrrroud DEMOCRAT! :yahoo:yahoo:yahoo



Deal With it Brother FERD :tease:tease:tease:tease

.

Thad, can you tell me that the platform of the Democrat party matches your personal morals and beliefs? What about the demoncrat party do you proudly agree to be associated with them? Please note...I am not talking about individual demoncrats....I am talking about the issues and platform that the party stands on.

[Monkeyman]

Thad, can you tell me that the platform of the Democrat party matches your personal morals and beliefs? What about the demoncrat party do you proudly agree to be associated with them? Please note...I am not talking about individual demoncrats....I am talking about the issues and platform that the party stands on.I'm sure no demons were around when bush was doing coke and getting drunk!!!! It is amazing what rich parents can do when you run foul of the law *another disclaimer..I voted for him*

And before you claim his conversion through Billy Graham so now he's a good guy, remember Slick Bill also prayed with Pastor Anthony after his, um...dealings with Monica, so you had better be ready to forgive Bill too!!!

[Thad]

Thad, can you tell me that the platform of the Democrat party matches your personal morals and beliefs? What about the demoncrat party do you proudly agree to be associated with them? Please note...I am not talking about individual demoncrats....I am talking about the issues and platform that the party stands on.


There some moral beliefs that the Dem Party has adopted that are deal breakers. those things keep me from voting for a Dem. however, as some have pointed out, everytime a Repub. points a finger at the Dems, they can point 2 fingers back.

Remember,Jesus also condemned those who forget the poor. that's a moral flaw too.

[Hoovie]

There some moral beliefs that the Dem Party has adopted that are deal breakers. those things keep me from voting for a Dem. however, as some have pointed out, everytime a Repub. points a finger at the Dems, they can point 2 fingers back.

Remember,Jesus also condemned those who forget the poor. that's a moral flaw too.


Where is that puke smiley?? I saw a study once that showed conservatives gave far more that their liberal counterparts who go around saying they "care" all the time.

[Monkeyman]

I think it is a riot some of you cats try to put godliness on a political machine...they are ALL so corrupt. It is not for the sqeamish what these dudes do behind closed doors.

[Monkeyman]

Where is that puke smiley?? I saw a study once that showed conservatives gave far more that their liberal counterparts who go around saying they "care" all the time.Probably right next to that bull hockey smiley......haaaaaaw! Next your going to tell me they have always been for minorities too, riiight?? Both sides have erred.

[Hoovie]

I think it is a riot some of you cats try to put godliness on a politcal machine...they are ALL so corrupt. It is not for the sqeamish what these dudes do behind closed doors.

ALL meaning the political parties - yes.

I would like to think there are individual exceptions.

[Sam]

Where is that puke smiley?? I saw a study once that showed conservatives gave far more that their liberal counterparts who go around saying they "care" all the time.

I've seen figures years ago that showed charitable contributions by some Conservatives/Republicans compared to some folks like Jesse Jackson and other Liberals. I don't know how accurate or how selective they were.

Maybe it's like that email making the rounds that compares energy costs of Dubya's home in TX compared to Al Gore's home in TN.

[Hoovie]

Probably right next to that bull hockey smiley......haaaaaaw! Next your going to tell me they have always been for minorities too, riiight?? Both sides have erred.

I agree in that.

My point was - it is a huge misnomer that (Liberals) care and give more than their conservative counterparts.

[Monkeyman]

ALL meaning the political parties - yes.

I would like to think there are individual exceptions.I agree!!!!!

[Hoovie]

I've seen figures years ago that showed charitable contributions by some Conservatives/Republicans compared to some folks like Jesse Jackson and other Liberals. I don't know how accurate or how selective they were.

Maybe it's like that email making the rounds that compares energy costs of Dubya's home in TX compared to Al Gore's home in TN.

It is a riot alright!

[Monkeyman]

I agree in that.

My point was - it is a huge misnomer that (Liberals) care and give more than their conservative counterparts.I agree again!!!!! Your doing great!

[Monkeyman]

That electric bill of Gore cracked me up..he has now won a Noble Peace Prize for his global efforts, he he he!

[Sam]

The government does not have any money of its own.
The only way the government can give money to one person is to first take it from another person.

I remember reading an explanation of how health care would be provided to all at no cost. This was alleged to have been a quote from Ted Kennedy.

"Health care will not cost you anything.
If you work, your employer will pay for it.
If you don't work, the government will pay for it."

[Hoovie]

I agree again!!!!! Your doing great!

Let's see if this one will shake ya! Patrick J Buchanan would have made a great President!!!

[Hoovie]

That electric bill of Gore cracked me up..he has now won a Noble Peace Prize for his global efforts, he he he!

Funny... he is now trying to dig himself out by buying carbon credits - planting trees etc.

[Monkeyman]

Let's see if this one will shake ya! Patrick J Buchanan would have made a great President!!!*shakes head, thinks SH has sniffed too much chimney smoke...goes to bed*

[Monkeyman]

Funny... he is now trying to dig himself out by buying carbon credits - planting trees etc.Now be nice...he invented the internet ya know!!!!!!!

[Hoovie]

*shakes head, thinks SH has sniffed too much chimney smoke...goes to bed*

Burned creosote put you waaay over the top Duuude!

[Hoovie]

Now be nice...he invented the internet ya know!!!!!!!

And I invented Love.

[SoCaliUPC]

I'm sure no demons were around when bush was doing coke and getting drunk!!!! It is amazing what rich parents can do when you run foul of the law *another disclaimer..I voted for him*

And before you claim his conversion through Billy Graham so now he's a good guy, remember Slick Bill also prayed with Pastor Anthony after his, um...dealings with Monica, so you had better be ready to forgive Bill too!!!

Note that I am talking about the platform of the party and not individual people...just the background of the party.

There are always good and bad and everything.

[Sam]

Funny... he is now trying to dig himself out by buying carbon credits - planting trees etc.

What do we usually call a person who preaches one thing and practices another?

[Sam]

Hopefully this will not be considered inappropriate:


Subject: My Mommy The Dancer...

One day a fourth-grade teacher asked the children what their mothers did for a living.

All the typical answers came up -- teacher, nurse, businesswoman, saleswoman, doctor, lawyer, and so forth. However, little Justin was being uncharacteristically quiet, so when the teacher prodded him about his mother, he replied,

"Well my mother's an exotic dancer in a cabaret and takes off all her clothes in front of men and they put money in her underwear. Sometimes, if the offer is really good, she will go home with some guy and stay with him all night for money."

The teacher, obviously shaken by this statement, hurriedly set the other children to work on some exercises and then took little Justin aside to ask him, "Is that really true about your mother?"

"No," the boy said, "She works for the Democratic National Committee and is helping to get Hillary Clinton to be our next President, but I was too embarrassed to say that in front of the other kids."

[Neck]

Thad Robbins??


Ring a bell?

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t201/Neckstadt/TR.jpg

:santathumb

[Thad]

Ring a bell?

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t201/Neckstadt/TR.jpg

:santathumb


the name rings a bell but you'll have to elaborate- I don't know much about him

[Neck]

the name rings a bell but you'll have to elaborate- I don't know much about him

How can one be a Democrat and not know who is in the front of the party.

[Thad]

How can one be a Democrat and not know who is in the front of the party.

I don't pay attention to the Dem Party like you do Nathan.

[NewWine]

Can Apostolics be Democrats? Well, let's see; you have Liberal Democrats and Conservative Democrats. Mind you there are also liberal Republicans and Conservative Republicans.

Jesus Christ was a conservative. How was he conservative?

Jesus told the disciples after he fed the 5,000 plus women and children to take up the fragments.
He ran the merchants out of the temple, when they turned it into a market. And said they turned it into a house of thieves.

Jesus Christ was a liberal. How was he liberal?

He placed Adam over all that was in the Garden of Eden.
For God so loved he world that he gave his only begotten Son.
He supplied manna from heaven, so much that they had left overs.
He brought quail in by the thousands.
The widow woman in the book of Kings, kept going to the barrel every day finding a little bit of meal.
When walking with the disciples through the corn fields, Jesus and the disciples picked corn on the Sabbath.
Jesus was teaching at night, which the Scribes, Pharisee's, and Publicans were against.
Jesus fed 5,000
Jesus fed 4,000
Jesus turned water into wine.
Jesus supped with Zacchaeus the "chief among the publicans"
Jesus and the disciples sat and supped with sinners and publicans
Jesus said "suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not:" No child left behind
The greatest act of liberalism ever was when Jesus Christ was crucified. He was bruised for our iniquities.
Jesus provided health care for all. The first single-payer health care system was established when Christ was whipped. By his stripes we are healed.

All the miracles that Jesus performed were viewed as liberal acts.
Ladies and Gentlemen I present to you the GREATEST LIBERAL OF ALL TIME...he is the Rose of Sharon, King of all Kings, the Great I Am, Lion of Judah, Prince of Peace, Alpha & Omega, none other than JESUS CHRIST!

P.S. I didn't even mention the great housing plan. I go to prepare a place for you, seeing as he is rich in houses and land

[PastorD]

Just vote the Bible. However, that doesn't leave too many on the ticket.

[Jekyll]

Cursed be the man who trusteth in the arm of flesh. Dem? Republican? I couldn't vote for Guiliani. Never in my life for Hitlary (my apologies to the poster who coined that name). If we don't vote, we have no right to voice our dissention nor do we uphold the right that our forefathers died to establish.

I must pray for the right decision on that day...then go tell somebody about Jesus.

[commonsense]

Is this a trick question??


My one God Apostolic father worked a union job 30+ years and always voted Democratic.......until the 80's when he voted for Reagan. Father in law, unsaved, but same song second verse, worked a union job 30+ years and always voted Democratic.
When my husband and I voted for the 1st time and voted Republican, we hesitated to admit it to the family.
In our modern era there are still Apostolics working union jobs and voting for the Dems. I know a few :star:jolly

I've voted Republican in 9 Presidential elections. If I didn't think I'd be throwing my vote away I'm starting to lean toward the Libertarian viewpoint. One of my top requirements is a Pres that's fiscally conservative.:santathumb

[ChristopherHall]

Just because one votes for a particular party it doesn't mean they agree with everything that party stands for. There are things on the Republican agenda that I don't agree with at all and I've voted Republican. So I think it's possible to be a devout Apostolic and vote Democrat. Sometimes some issues strike closer to home. If you've lost your family's income because your job was quickly moved overseas, if your family cannot afford health insurance any longer, or if you feel that unelected corporate power has become too great in Washington you might vote Democratic. Some of these issues have a more direct effect on our families than the issues of abortion or gay marriage. Nearly all of us stand against abortion and gay marriage...however our families must come first. Some Christians believe that you should secure your job, get health insurance for your family, and then maybe you can focus on righting the behavior of others.

When it comes to abortion there are really three views most religious people take in the Democratic Party:

Some believe that life doens't truly begin until the child breathes it's first breath. I don't think this can stand up to biblical scrutiny.

Some believe that abortion is morally wrong but feel that the government isn't the answer. Therefore they believe in preaching against abortion and allowing social conscience to fight abortion. Seeing that in 1997 the abortion rate was the lowest in American history (even lower than when abortion was illegal) this position has some merit to it. Change people's hearts and minds and though it may be legal few will choose abortion. Also Christian Democrats in this school of thought support programs and funding for programs that will assist women in crisis pregnancies to lessen the chances of them choosing abortion. One such Democratic initiative was promoted by the DFLA (Democrats for Life of America) called the 95-10 Initiative. It's aim was to reduce the abortion rate 95% in ten years...and that's without banning the procedure. Of course Republicans rejected the legislation. Some Christian Democrats also see that abortion and poverty have links. Two out of three women who procure abortion live below the poverty level. They note that their reason for choosing abortion is economic hardship. The theory is that many of these women are poor, scared, and acting out of fear. If measures to relieve poverty and assist women who may need it are there fewer will choose abortion.

Then you have the view of many Pro-Life Democrats that they want to eventually change the position of the Democratic Party on abortion and ban it in the US. They remain Democrats because they see too much corruption in the Republican economic system. They don't believe in Social Darwinist economics. They favor fair market over free market and they also may acknowledge that there are other issues like global warming and excessive war that are pressing.

So yes...I believe an Apostolic can be a Democrat. They just see things differently than their Republican brothers and sisters. If you're going to be a Republican...be the best Republican you can be. If you're going to be a Democrat...be the best Democrat you can be.

I'm a moderate so I don't claim to be a member of any political party. I vote for what will first benefit my family and second for those who will address the pressing issues of the day. If I felt that the most pressing issue is defense I'd most likely vote Republican. If I felt that the most pressing issue is the rising costs of health care on the American family...I'd most likely vote Democrat.

After so many years of Republican dominance we've not seen anything really impressive come out in regards to abortion and gay marriage. What can "government" really do about these issues? Banning abortion has never ended abortion. Nations in South America have banned abortion and still have some of the highest abortion rates in the world. However, Belgium is very liberal and abortion is legal...but it has one of the lowest abortion rates in the world. If government is the answer one would think the numbers would be the other way around.

As you can see there are some very different ways to look at the political issues of the day. I personally have no issue with Apostolic Democrats. I know and am good friends with quite a few of them.

[ChristopherHall]

Hopefully this will not be considered inappropriate:


Subject: My Mommy The Dancer...

One day a fourth-grade teacher asked the children what their mothers did for a living.

All the typical answers came up -- teacher, nurse, businesswoman, saleswoman, doctor, lawyer, and so forth. However, little Justin was being uncharacteristically quiet, so when the teacher prodded him about his mother, he replied,

"Well my mother's an exotic dancer in a cabaret and takes off all her clothes in front of men and they put money in her underwear. Sometimes, if the offer is really good, she will go home with some guy and stay with him all night for money."

The teacher, obviously shaken by this statement, hurriedly set the other children to work on some exercises and then took little Justin aside to ask him, "Is that really true about your mother?"

"No," the boy said, "She works for the Democratic National Committee and is helping to get Hillary Clinton to be our next President, but I was too embarrassed to say that in front of the other kids."

You know...I don't think many caught the implications of the story.

[Light]

:amen

What I don't understand is how the "christian" republicans can ignore all this stuff.

They have their head in the sand like the big bird. Facts don't matter to a republican.

[Light]

I hope you had one hand over your heart when you typed the words "Ronald Reagan"!

it is required you know.

Have no other God besides me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Esther]

Since the Democratic party platform is primarily liberal to the core, believing in:

Abortion on demand
Gay Marriage & gays as a special interest group
BIG government
More government control of citizen's lives
Silencing the Christian voice in America
Removing the 10 commandments

and a host of other causes that are un-biblical..........can a true Apostolic be a Democrat who believes in these things and please God?



Just wondering. This will be the first election that I will be voting as a registered Independent. :D

Matters not what party they belong to but if that is THEIR agenda, I can not vote for them.

[Light]

[Gen 6:6] And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

[Gen 6:7] And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Gen 6:11] The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

[Gen 6:12] And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.


[Mat 24:37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

[Mat 24:38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Do Republican Apostolics stand in the way of the will of God by the way they vote?????

[Apprehended]

[Gen 6:6] And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

[Gen 6:7] And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Gen 6:11] The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

[Gen 6:12] And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.


[Mat 24:37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

[Mat 24:38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Do Republican Apostolics stand in the way of the will of God by the way they vote?????

This is probably the least intelligent application of scripture that I have ever read.

OK, so I will answer anyway:

Yes, the Republicans DO. BUT, the Democrats are sanctified holy and would never think of doing such a thing. They all carry a bible in their coat pocket which they all consult and read before casting their sacred vote. God bless the Democrats and curst the Republicans...

THERE!

[ChristopherHall]

Since the Democratic party platform is primarily liberal to the core, believing in:

Abortion on demand
Gay Marriage & gays as a special interest group
BIG government
More government control of citizen's lives
Silencing the Christian voice in America
Removing the 10 commandments

and a host of other causes that are un-biblical..........can a true Apostolic be a Democrat who believes in these things and please God?




Just wondering. This will be the first election that I will be voting as a registered Independent. :D

I think it's important to focus in on definitions. The issues you presented are very important. However, sometimes things are in the eye of the beholder. It depends on how one looks at the issue. Let me list the issues you listed with a more moderate viewpoint that a Democratic Christian might have next to them:

Abortion on demand (The government has never successfully regulated abortion. With education and moral social pressure we have successfully lowered abortion rates in America to a 30 year all time low. Yes, lower than when abortion was illegal. No legislation necessary. Such would increase governmental power over the individual.)

Gay Marriage & gays as a special interest group (While homosexuality is morally repugnant it is a private matter the government shouldn't intrude upon. The government cannot regulate sexual behavior between two consenting adults, nor should it regulate "relationships" between free citizens. This issue is better left dealt with state by state as all marriage laws are. Such would increase governmental power over the individual.)

Silencing the Christian voice in America (This is typically a local issue and many Democrats see no issue with public expressions of faith as long as they are not funded with tax dollars or presented with the exclusion of other faiths.)

Removing the 10 commandments (Hanging a plaque on the wall of a court room or class room is a pat answer to a deeper problem. What we should be concerned with is why the Ten Commandments are not being taught by parents. It is strictly the role of the parent and the leaders of their faith communities to communicate and teach religious moral values. It is not the role of the state court system, the public school class room, or any other government agency.)

What is interesting is that the "conservative" would increase governmental power and control over the individual in these areas and have government take the place of moral and religious authority.

There has to be a balance that protects individual rights and freedoms (even if we do not agree with and even preach against their lifestyles). The limitations of Government must be acknowledged. Government has never been able to remedy issues like abortion. Loving faith communities that reach out to women in crisis pregnancies can do far more to save lives than push the lever for the "R's" ever election cycle.

As you can see, these issues look one way to the conservative and another way to the moderate and liberal.

[ChristopherHall]

I think the frustration with the Republicans is that they presented themselves as a religious and moral political party. The Democrats never made such a claim. Most Democrats acknowledge "personal religious faith" but believe that the role of government is one that is largely secular by it's very nature. By presenting themselves as a religious and moral party the Republicans have set themselves up for greater scrutiny. Especially now that they've done NOTHING on issues such as abortion and gay marriage. But rather they have worked on legislation that empties the coffers of government for corporate hand-outs, no bid contracts, and lined the pockets of their wealthy and powerful constituents.

[ChristopherHall]

If abortion and gay marriage were off the table (technically they are since both parties really don't plan to do anything about them)....which party would properly address the problems with international trade, free (but unfair) markets, multinational corporations that don't observe human rights in third world countries, the rising cost of health insurance, international diplomacy and the prevention of military hostility, the problems with pre-emptive war, the privacy rights of all Americans and the problems of the government's surveliance and wire tapping, exploitation and abuse of American labor, increased corporate money and power in the halls of government, and the list can go on.

I think the Republicans have been in office so long and the majority of Americans have lost faith that they will properly address so many of these important issues. So many Americans are looking at giving the Democrats a shot and seeing what good they might be able to to do. Remember, government works for us. If they don't do the job right we need to fire them and hire someone else. That's the only way to keep both parties activily trying to do their best. The problem is the Republicans count on us always voting for them like lemmings regardless of if we're loosing our jobs, can't pay for gasoline, can't pay for health insurance, can't pay for perscription drugs, etc. I think they've underestimated how far they can push Christian vote. I think that's why this thread exists. Something is awakening in our social conscience that is telling us that we need to punish the "R's" because they've really not done a good job and are taking our vote for granted.

[ChristopherHall]

Here's an interesting website. I don't agree with all of it but it was interesting.

http://faithfuldemocrats.com/

http://images.p1points.com/images/content/JesusOnDonkey_WhiteBG.jpg

Some would argue that they never heard of Jesus riding an elephant. LOL

[RandyWayne]

If abortion and gay marriage were off the table (technically they are since both parties really don't plan to do anything about them)....which party would properly address the problems with international trade, free (but unfair) markets, multinational corporations that don't observe human rights in third world countries, the rising cost of health insurance, international diplomacy and the prevention of military hostility, the problems with pre-emptive war, the privacy rights of all Americans and the problems of the government's surveliance and wire tapping, exploitation and abuse of American labor, increased corporate money and power in the halls of government, and the list can go on.

I think the Republicans have been in office so long and the majority of Americans have lost faith that they will properly address so many of these important issues. So many Americans are looking at giving the Democrats a shot and seeing what good they might be able to to do. Remember, government works for us. If they don't do the job right we need to fire them and hire someone else. That's the only way to keep both parties activily trying to do their best. The problem is the Republicans count on us always voting for them like lemmings regardless of if we're loosing our jobs, can't pay for gasoline, can't pay for health insurance, can't pay for perscription drugs, etc. I think they've underestimated how far they can push Christian vote. I think that's why this thread exists. Something is awakening in our social conscience that is telling us that we need to punish the "R's" because they've really not done a good job and are taking our vote for granted.

Therein lies the main problem with me. This issue really does cross over with the "Should Christians be wise" thread. Because around here, if those two issues were taken off the table, then the democrats WOULD get the vast majority of the vote that now goes to the republican ticket. No one can understand or even articulate the vast amount of other issues which CONSERVATIVES (not always republican) legislators push for. Such as keeping the min wage in check (fighting to keep it from going up), keeping taxes low and fair (meaning 'even'), OPPOSING national health care and actually trying to introduce market forces into the mix to keep prices from rising (the only thing that will), and beating our enemy through vast strength -and not just beating them, but making them think ten times before attacking since it is obvious they WILL be beat.
No, abortion and gay rights/marriage are not my top two reasons for voting as conservative as possible.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
I hope you had one hand over your heart when you typed the words "Ronald Reagan"!

it is required you know.

I don't know about you...... But "I" do.

[RevBuddy]

But the REAL question is whether Democratics can be Apostolics???

And the answer, my brothers and sisters, is...


YES....YES....YES...YES...YES...YES...YES...

...just a little deliverance in the name of Jesus...can I have a witness??? :tiphat

[Apprehended]

But the REAL question is whether Democratics can be Apostolics???

And the answer, my brothers and sisters, is...


YES....YES....YES...YES...YES...YES...YES...

...just a little deliverance in the name of Jesus...can I have a witness??? :tiphat

Well, I suppose so...

at least as long as the Apostolic democrats have no problem watching 1.25 million babies being slaughtered in America each year. If you have no problem with that...I suppose these good Apostolic democrats are just fine.

Personally, with the Republican's committment to replace murderers Justices Ruth Ginsberg, John Paul Stevens and Steven Bryer on the Supreme Court, I would vote again for Bush, the 3rd term the 2nd worst president in the past 100 years who stuck to his guns like a iron man to get John Roberts and Samuel Alto on the Bench. These two, with three other Republican appointees, justice Clarence Thomas, Antonin Scalia, are now tilting the right for the first time in decades. Thus Roe vs. Wade is now threatened and has greatly been weakened.

If Apostolics vote in another Democrat we are certain to get at least two or three Justices who will lean the court back to left for decades to come, accelerating again the Abortion mills. Conservative Scalia will be retiring soon. A Democrat will appoint a baby killer to the bench. Guilt will rest with the Apostolics that vote him in.

Power to operate those mills flow from the decisions handed down by the liberal courts appointed by DEMON CRATS...yes, Apostolic Democrats.

ALL Republican candidates have pledged to appoint to the courts conservative/constructionist judges.

So, Apostolics...

while you are jumping and running the asiles, talking in tongues and SHOWING OUT...remember to VOTE YOU CONSCIENCE.

[RandyWayne]

Thats all true and a good point.... But even if abortion were taken off the table (along with Gay marriage) the democrat party is still based entirely on envy. Making the person who makes a buck more an hour pay for whatever social program you happen to benefit from. Whether it is health care, retirement costs, school, or anything else. If you make 30 thousand a year and your neighbor makes 3 million, why is HE somehow beholden to pay for your kids education or your families health care?

[Apprehended]

That is so true...

I get sick at my stomache and have to hold back vomit everytime I hear that idiot from N.C. speak about two America's...the haves and the have nots... Elect him and he will make sure the haves will have not and the have nots will continue to have not.

Democrat party is the party of bondage.

[RandyWayne]

That is so true...

I get sick at my stomache and have to hold back vomit everytime I hear that idiot from N.C. speak about two America's...the haves and the have nots... Elect him and he will make sure the haves will have not and the have nots will continue to have not.

Democrat party is the party of bondage.

That would be John Edwards.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/estack_12_13_06/TheBreckGirl.Par.33504.ImageFile.jpg
http://mfile.akamai.com/5020/wma/rushlimb.download.akamai.com/5020/New/edwardsiamwoman.asx

[RevBuddy]

I'm not asserting any support of the National Democratic Party...none whatsoever...

I was just using a little humor to replace some of the heavy words...

I do agree the Democratic policies and platforms have been a direct attack and an affront to Christians everywhere...

[ChristopherHall]

Well, I suppose so...

at least as long as the Apostolic democrats have no problem watching 1.25 million babies being slaughtered in America each year. If you have no problem with that...I suppose these good Apostolic democrats are just fine.

Personally, with the Republican's committment to replace murderers Justices Ruth Ginsberg, John Paul Stevens and Steven Bryer on the Supreme Court, I would vote again for Bush, the 3rd term the 2nd worst president in the past 100 years who stuck to his guns like a iron man to get John Roberts and Samuel Alto on the Bench. These two, with three other Republican appointees, justice Clarence Thomas, Antonin Scalia, are now tilting the right for the first time in decades. Thus Roe vs. Wade is now threatened and has greatly been weakened.

If Apostolics vote in another Democrat we are certain to get at least two or three Justices who will lean the court back to left for decades to come, accelerating again the Abortion mills. Conservative Scalia will be retiring soon. A Democrat will appoint a baby killer to the bench. Guilt will rest with the Apostolics that vote him in.

Power to operate those mills flow from the decisions handed down by the liberal courts appointed by DEMON CRATS...yes, Apostolic Democrats.

ALL Republican candidates have pledged to appoint to the courts conservative/constructionist judges.

So, Apostolics...

while you are jumping and running the asiles, talking in tongues and SHOWING OUT...remember to VOTE YOU CONSCIENCE.

I think it should be noted here that the abortion rate had it's sharpest decline and hit a 30 year all time low in 1997 under a Democratic administration. I really would like to illustrate how there is a direct connect between economic stabilities in poor and middle class families and the abortion rate. Short and simple...if the poor and middle class are suffering economic hardship, those who are not religious, will most likely choose to abort and raise a family when times are more economically stable. This is lost on most of us Apostolics because we've forgotten how the world thinks. Yes...if they cannot afford a child they abort it. Since 2001 nearly 16 states that track abortion rates have indicated a small but noticeable increase in the abortion rate. Note that this is in areas where jobs have been lost and have experienced other economic hardships. Abortion is a spirit that thrives in the shadows of poverty. If a woman finds herself without a bread winning husband, without a steady liveable income, without health insurance for her, without health insurance for her future child, ....she will most likely choose to abort. We need to address the issues (spiritual, emotional, and physical) that are factors as to why women choose to abort. They do not just abort because it's legal nor do they choose not to abort because it's illegal. After all, the abortion rate was higher than it is today back in the late 60's and early 70's when abortion was illegal.

Apostolic Democrats believe in a social agenda that addresses the issues poor and middle class women face when finding themselves in a crisis pregnancy. For example, they support SCHIP and other initiatives that will cover children and pregnant women with health insurance. Many support state subsidized child care initiatives to offer incentive to work and assistance for poor working mothers who might need assistance. Subsidized housing for single mothers, and other TANF programs.

So yes Apostolic Democrats, and religious Democrats in general, believe in using America's tax dollars to assist women who might otherwise choose to abort. They understand that it may cost us something as a society and a nation to save lives by helping those who ordinarily would choose abortion.

Sadly the conservative position is just rhetoric. Ban abortion. That's all they offer. No help for poor or working class women with crisis pregnancies. You can be assured that if any program addressing the needs of women in a crisis pregnancy will cost money...a conservative will rather save their money than assist a woman in choosing life. Money often trumps life in the conservative mind. Most conservatives will tell you that if paying tax dollars to subsidize children's health insurance or child care will save nearly 300,000 unborn lives a year, they'd rather that 300,000 unborn children be aborted than use tax dollars to support said programs. That means...money trumps the value of life, plain and simple.

The Democrats proposed a legislative agenda that would have reduced America's abortion rate by 95% in ten years. The conservatives rejected it because it would have meant using tax dollars to do so. Tax dollars they wanted to give their corporate contributors in expensive tax subsidies and pork projects.

Gallup reports that 43% of registered Democrats are Pro-Life. Christian, and Apostolic, Democrats don't believe in just sitting by and watching a million children be aborted ever year. They believe that we as a nation must address the issues that cause women to consider and choose abortion.

I think it's highly unfair to paint Christian and Apostolic Democrats as "Demon Crats" etc. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Here's a question. Before Chile began to lighten up on it's abortion law it had one of the highest abortion rates in the world (99 per every 1000 pregnancies) even though it had some of the toughest laws banning abortion. Belgium is VERY liberal and is a Pro-Choice nation, however, it has one of the lowest abortion rates in the entire world (8 per ever 1000 pregnancies). Which nation has more blood on it's hands?

The difference is that Belgium is addressing issues women and families face in the economic environment today. Chile wasn't. Abortion's legality wasn't even a factor in the over all abortion rate of the nation.

Those are the cold hard unemotional facts.

[ManOfWord]

Apostolic Democrats believe in a social agenda that addresses the issues poor and middle class women face when finding themselves in a crisis pregnancy. For example, they support SCHIP and other initiatives that will cover children and pregnant women with health insurance. Many support state subsidized child care initiatives to offer incentive to work and assistance for poor working mothers who might need assistance. Subsidized housing for single mothers, and other TANF programs.

So yes Apostolic Democrats, and religious Democrats in general, believe in using America's tax dollars to assist women who might otherwise choose to abort. They understand that it may cost us something as a society and a nation to save lives by helping those who ordinarily would choose abortion.

Sadly the conservative position is just rhetoric. Ban abortion. That's all they offer. No help for poor or working class women with crisis pregnancies. You can be assured that if any program addressing the needs of women in a crisis pregnancy will cost money...a conservative will rather save their money than assist a woman in choosing life. Money often trumps life in the conservative mind. Most conservatives will tell you that if paying tax dollars to subsidize children's health insurance or child care will save nearly 300,000 unborn lives a year, they'd rather that 300,000 unborn children be aborted than use tax dollars to support said programs. That means...money trumps the value of life, plain and simple.

The Democrats proposed a legislative agenda that would have reduced America's abortion rate by 95% in ten years. The conservatives rejected it because it would have meant using tax dollars to do so. Tax dollars they wanted to give their corporate contributors in expensive tax subsidies and pork projects.

Gallup reports that 43% of registered Democrats are Pro-Life. Christian, and Apostolic, Democrats don't believe in just sitting by and watching a million children be aborted ever year. They believe that we as a nation must address the issues that cause women to consider and choose abortion.

I think it's highly unfair to paint Christian and Apostolic Democrats as "Demon Crats" etc. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Here's a question. Before Chile began to lighten up on it's abortion law it had one of the highest abortion rates in the world (99 per every 1000 pregnancies) even though it had some of the toughest laws banning abortion. Belgium is VERY liberal and is a Pro-Choice nation, however, it has one of the lowest abortion rates in the entire world (8 per ever 1000 pregnancies). Which nation has more blood on it's hands?

The difference is that Belgium is addressing issues women and families face in the economic environment today. Chile wasn't. Abortion's legality wasn't even a factor in the over all abortion rate of the nation.

Those are the cold hard unemotional facts.

Nice try. It is primarily the conservatives who pour money into crisis pregnancy centers. Conservatives primarily espouse personal responsibility and liberals (including the majority of Democrats) believe that it is the government's responsibility to support every Tom, Dick and Harry whose poor choices have put them in the difficult situations they are in. Therefore, the "apostolic" democrats have these people "beholding" to them for their sustenance.

It is the "apostolic" democrats who believe that everyone in the US should have government sponsored health care no matter what poor choices put them into that condition. I for one vehemently oppose using my tax dollars for those who develop cancer from smoking or other life style choices. Everyone in the US has a choice as to how they are going to live their lives. It is not MY responsibility to care for them when their world comes crashing down.

Conservatives believe in helping people make better choices. Liberals support them after they make the bad choices and enable them to do so as well. If more people in this country were held responsible for their own actions, there would be less need to support them. IMO :D

[ChristopherHall]

Thats all true and a good point.... But even if abortion were taken off the table (along with Gay marriage) the democrat party is still based entirely on envy. Making the person who makes a buck more an hour pay for whatever social program you happen to benefit from. Whether it is health care, retirement costs, school, or anything else. If you make 30 thousand a year and your neighbor makes 3 million, why is HE somehow beholden to pay for your kids education or your families health care?

I want to begin by saying, I love ya bro, but I disagree.

Most people are ignorant of the issues. Republicans like to keep them that way. For example Republicans like to slam graduated tax brackets by saying that they are unfair and make the wealthier pay more taxes than those in lower backets. While on the surface this is true and appears to be unjust a closer look will illustrate why it is perfect just and fair. The issue isn't "how much" one pays in taxes vs. another citizen. The issue is "tax burden". Every American should shoulder an equal amount of the "tax burden". That means that the tax burden felt by a middle class family must be equally carried by wealthier citizens. That requires that the tax burden be graduated to spread it equally among all citizens. Often you hear about a flat tax of 20% or so. That would be VERY unequitable and here's why. When one factors in the cost of living and then compares the burden carried by an individual making only $30k a year at 20% with the burden carried by one making $200,000 one will quickly see that the tax burden carried by the one making $30k a year is much higher. That's why our tax system is graduated and should stay graduated.

In actuality when one compares the steadily rising cost of living with stagnant wages that means there is less for savings. Thus retirement savings goes out the window just so families can afford to pay the bills and keep a decent roof over their heads in a decent area of town where they're not shot at.

Our founding fathers believed that all men were created equal and were endowed by their created with certain inalienable rights. The right to life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness. They felt that to protect those rights all Americans should have a right to an education no matter how poor they were. And so our public school systems were born. Paying for the public school systems are in a very basic sense protecting the god given rights of all citizens. Yes, a child from a poor family has a right to an education their family would be unable to afford.

And the issue of health care should get the biggest laugh. Here goes...you're already paying for everyone else's health care! LOL That's why your premiums are so high. Here's how it works.... Let's make it simple and say you have a nation with 100 citizens. However 20 of them can't afford health insurance so, they don't have it. When they get sick or injured they just don't stay home and die...they go to the emergency room and receive treatment or examinations with initial treatments. These people don't have health insurance so guess what...they can't pay the bill. The hospital, being unable to collect the bill isn't just going to eat the loss...they are going to raise the cost of health care to pass the loss to the consumers. So the cost of health care increases. Well...guess what...as the cost of health care increases health insurance companies have to pay more in health care costs. So they increase health insurance rates and premiums. Well when they do this another 5 to 10 of your little nation with 100 citizens find they cannot afford health insurance. Now you have up to 30 people without health insurance. Guess what...when they're sick they too will go to the emergency room, they too will be unable to pay the bill, and the hospitals will again raise health care costs to cover the increased loss. Then the insurance companies will raise the cost of health insurance because the cost of health care increased. Then the premiums and rates rise again...AND another 5 or 10 citizens in your little 100 citizen country can't afford health insurance so they opt out. Now you have 40 of your 100 citizens uninsured. Guess what...they too will go to the emergency room when sick or injured and they too will be unable to pay the bill and the cycle will continue until only those who can afford to support the system with excessive health care premiums have insurance.

However, as nearly ever other Western nation has discovered, covering all citizens is less expensive than a private system where the cost of the uninsured is increasingly placed on the backs of those with insurance. For example right now in America the average family might pay $300 a month for a decent family plan with United Health Care. My friend in Canada only pays roughly what would equal $120 in taxes to the local provincial system for his health insurance. Hmmm....and he swears by the system and has never had a problem with it. Most of the horror stories of national health care systems are mythology that build on those few rare or special cases. For example my friend in Canada only knew one person that had to wait a couple months for an MRI. He suffered from leg pain in one of his joints. On the surface it sounds like he had to languish in pain for a couple months before he could get an MRI. But what you're not told is that he was given time off work (with pay by the way) and some strong pain killers until he could have his MRI. He was well taken care of.

So this is why even conservatives are increasingly considering a national health insurance program.

But my ultimate point is...YOU'RE ALREADY PAYING FOR MANY OF THE UNINSURED, LOOK AT YOUR RISING PREMIUMS...you're just paying in the most expensive way possible! LOL

Of course...the multi-billion dollar companies in the health insurance industry don't want you to understand their game because they're making billions of dollars in record profits off America's ignorance.

Also please note, nearly 18,000 Americans die each year because they cannot afford to continue treatments that could save their lives. Another 25,000 Americans declare bankruptcy every year because they cannot afford to pay their medical bills. Medical bills are the leading cause of backruptcy in the US. Men and women who have worked hard all their lives, raised families, and saved for retirement are being wiped out by the system we're currently under.

We can do better than this. And even though many who don't understand the situation are dead set against it...we will one day do better than this.

[ChristopherHall]

Nice try. It is primarily the conservatives who pour money into crisis pregnancy centers.

Wrong. Most crisis pregnancy centers receive more money in grants and funding from the government than charitable donations. If you cut their government funding they'd fold.

Conservatives primarily espouse personal responsibility and liberals (including the majority of Democrats) believe that it is the government's responsibility to support every Tom, Dick and Harry whose poor choices have put them in the difficult situations they are in. Therefore, the "apostolic" democrats have these people "beholding" to them for their sustenance.

Democrats also believe in personal responsibility. Gone are the days of a free ride. Remember it was President Clinton that cut the rolls and revolutionized welfare in this nation with welfare to work programs. The people just needed a hand to get on their feet...and that's what government assistance should be. It should never be something that is free without strong work requirements and limited duration. Remember....we are the human race and we're plagued by sin. Yes, people make wrong choices. However the morality of a nation can be gauged with how well it helps those who have fallen get back on their feet.

It is the "apostolic" democrats who believe that everyone in the US should have government sponsored health care no matter what poor choices put them into that condition. I for one vehemently oppose using my tax dollars for those who develop cancer from smoking or other life style choices. Everyone in the US has a choice as to how they are going to live their lives. It is not MY responsibility to care for them when their world comes crashing down.

It is your responsibility. It's all of our responsibility. You're a human being not a greed machine. Besides, you're already paying for the health care of a good number of the uninsured. Please be aware that nearly 18,000 people die a year because they cannot continue necessary treatments. Not all were smokers who, according to you, deserve to die.

Conservatives believe in helping people make better choices. Liberals support them after they make the bad choices and enable them to do so as well. If more people in this country were held responsible for their own actions, there would be less need to support them. IMO :D

I was raised in a Democratic family. I cannot ever remember being encouraged to or told that it's ok to make bad choices. However, I was taught that when people do make bad choices they must be lifted up. And often it takes more than charity.

[ChristopherHall]

There are nearly 45 million Americans without health insurance. The vast majority of them are elderly, working poor, and single parents. Interestingly, a large number are pastors too. Does your pastor have a right to health care without becoming bankrupt?

Remember we were endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights. Life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness. If one becomes ill with a life threatening disease do they have a right to live? If yes, they have a right to health care.

Please note, many of those unborn children we want to see born have a right to live....they too may one day need health care. Are they not entitled to it? Or do we only care about their right to live as long as they are unborn?

Funny...conservatives always talk about the right to live...until it might cost them an extra dollar or two in taxes. But what's real funny about the health insurance issue....the taxes paid into a national system would be less than the premiums they're currently paying! LOL

[BrotherEastman]

Well, I suppose so...

at least as long as the Apostolic democrats have no problem watching 1.25 million babies being slaughtered in America each year. If you have no problem with that...I suppose these good Apostolic democrats are just fine.

Personally, with the Republican's committment to replace murderers Justices Ruth Ginsberg, John Paul Stevens and Steven Bryer on the Supreme Court, I would vote again for Bush, the 3rd term the 2nd worst president in the past 100 years who stuck to his guns like a iron man to get John Roberts and Samuel Alto on the Bench. These two, with three other Republican appointees, justice Clarence Thomas, Antonin Scalia, are now tilting the right for the first time in decades. Thus Roe vs. Wade is now threatened and has greatly been weakened.

If Apostolics vote in another Democrat we are certain to get at least two or three Justices who will lean the court back to left for decades to come, accelerating again the Abortion mills. Conservative Scalia will be retiring soon. A Democrat will appoint a baby killer to the bench. Guilt will rest with the Apostolics that vote him in.

Power to operate those mills flow from the decisions handed down by the liberal courts appointed by DEMON CRATS...yes, Apostolic Democrats.

ALL Republican candidates have pledged to appoint to the courts conservative/constructionist judges.

So, Apostolics...

while you are jumping and running the asiles, talking in tongues and SHOWING OUT...remember to VOTE YOU CONSCIENCE.
Republicans allow abortion as well, don't be fooled. If Bush was a conservative then he would have the backing to pull the plug on federal funding that goes to these abortion clinics. So, why doesn't he do it? Because he still needs the support of the democrats to pass a bill. He compromises, so would Guliani. So, I say you're right vote your conscience while you run the aisles, shout, and dance in church.

All republicans are "closet liberals", so I will most likely not vote for them as well as not voting for any democrat.

[BrotherEastman]

Cursed be the man who trusteth in the arm of flesh. Dem? Republican? I couldn't vote for Guiliani. Never in my life for Hitlary (my apologies to the poster who coined that name). If we don't vote, we have no right to voice our dissention nor do we uphold the right that our forefathers died to establish.
I must pray for the right decision on that day...then go tell somebody about Jesus.
Your kidding right? 300,000,000 Americans and I get stuck with these few as a choice? I have a right to complain because I sacrificed for your right to choose a bunch of losers.:usa:whistle

[Rhoni]

Republicans allow abortion as well, don't be fooled. If Bush was a conservative then he would have the backing to pull the plug on federal funding that goes to these abortion clinics. So, why doesn't he do it? Because he still needs the support of the democrats to pass a bill. He compromises, so would Guliani. So, I say you're right vote your conscience while you run the aisles, shout, and dance in church.

All republicans are "closet liberals", so I will most likely not vote for them as well as not voting for any democrat.
To All My Democrat Friends:
Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2008, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only Americain the Western Hemisphere. Also, this wish is made without regard to the race, cree d, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee’.


To My Republican Friends:

Merry Christmas and a Happy and Prosperous New Year!

[Apprehended]

There are nearly 45 million Americans without health insurance. The vast majority of them are elderly, working poor, and single parents. Interestingly, a large number are pastors too. Does your pastor have a right to health care without becoming bankrupt?

Remember we were endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights. Life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness. If one becomes ill with a life threatening disease do they have a right to live? If yes, they have a right to health care.

Please note, many of those unborn children we want to see born have a right to live....they too may one day need health care. Are they not entitled to it? Or do we only care about their right to live as long as they are unborn?

Funny...conservatives always talk about the right to live...until it might cost them an extra dollar or two in taxes. But what's real funny about the health insurance issue....the taxes paid into a national system would be less than the premiums they're currently paying! LOL

This is really funny...in a wierd kind of way.

Much of the deceived public by the notion of Universal Health Care are enthusiastic about their six Democrat candidates who have promised that they would work toward getting it implemented.

It is really funny and absurd too.

The Universal Health Care plan works like the Universal Auto Insurance plan. If you drive a car on public thoroughfares, you MUST have insurnace. The government is not going to give it to you FREE. You must find a provider to buy it from.

That's really NEAT. So it is with Universal Health Care. The government will MANDATE, under their proposals that YOU BUY IT. When Hillary is pressed on the question how it is that she feels that the government can MANDATE that every citizen BUY health care for themselves, she says, "The same way that the government is already MANDATING that Auto Insurance be bought."

When asked about what kind of penalties would she suggests to be imposed upon an objector that refuses it, she said, "That is something that would have to be negotiated and worked out in Congress."

The Democrat party is the party of slavery. If you like bondage, then that is the party for you. Go for it. Personally, I don't like government mandates.

But anyway, thinking back over the Auto Insurance that the government mandated I recall how cheap the insurance was before the mandate. After the insurance companies bought and paid for enough Democrat politicians they finally got that law passed, state by state. What happened to the prive of Auto Insurance? I remember it WELL. The price went right through the roof.

What do you think will happen to the cost of Health Insurance when it becomes mandated by the government that you buy it? Right! The price will go right through the roof. Why? Well just think about it. It is really simple economics...good economics when the health providers and drug companies have the majority politicians in their shirt pockets...completely bought and paid for by the likes of George Soros and all other stock manipulators who care NOTHING about health care for all Americans but only for their balooning portfolios.

Meanwhile, with the climbing costs as the results of government mandates, in the name of "caring" and "compassion" (what a crock) are forcing more and more companies off shore. Under the Clinton Administration they begin leaving by the droves. Do you remember the story of Studebaker car company?

If you think that the Democrat party is in love with you...I hardly know what to say. When they realize that they can stay in power by giving the keys of the treasury to the insane for a vote, they will do it.

Meanwhile, there is not much left of our nation that was established on the principles of the free enterprise system. Little will be left for our children and their children. Personal responsibility is an outdated idea, nanny government to take care of us all is very much in vogue in the Democrat party.

[Apprehended]

Republicans allow abortion as well, don't be fooled. If Bush was a conservative then he would have the backing to pull the plug on federal funding that goes to these abortion clinics. So, why doesn't he do it? Because he still needs the support of the democrats to pass a bill. He compromises, so would Guliani. So, I say you're right vote your conscience while you run the aisles, shout, and dance in church.

All republicans are "closet liberals", so I will most likely not vote for them as well as not voting for any democrat.

Don't think that I've read anything less informed that this.

To pull the funding would take 60% of both the House and Senate...not 51%. Neither the Democrats or the Republicans have that kind of majority. Neither is there enough majority of the House, Senate, and States to pass a Constitution Admendment that would codify against RIGHT TO KILL, and DEFINING MARRIAGE between one man and one woman.

The last Constitutional Admendment that passed both House and Senate, then presented to each of the 50 States for ratification was the HUGELY popular Equal Rights Amendment which narrowly failed. Therefore the Republicans alone do not have the power to enact such restrictions. If it were left up to Republican Presidents alone, these evil practices would have been abolished long ago...even before they got started. Ronald Reagan was OUTRAGED by the practice of killing these little babies before they were born. So has every Republican president since Roe V. Wade. Democrat presidents LOVE IT...THEY LOVE TO KILL those babies and support the murderous women's RIGHT TO KILL both by voice, vote, legislature, and appointment to the Bench.

Not so with the Republican presidents. They voice against it, the veto further legislation, and appoint men such as Scalia, Thomas, Alito, and Roberts to the bench that WILL FIGHT IT, tooth and nail. Already, with one swing vote has the DEMOCRAT partial birth abortion been struck down by a 5 to 4 vote.

What a horrible practice the Democrats defended. Partial birth... My God! Even late term. Too gruesome to even think about on a fully developed child at the time of birth...puncturing the skull of a little baby whom the Lord of heaven chose to send into the world, then suck the little darling's brains out and collpase its skull. Some of the more gruesome practices have included chopping of the head of the baby as it was being born.

Got the Democrats...not the republicans...and all the jumping, asile running and shouting Apostolics who voted for them to THANK FOR THAT!

But the Democrats are so livid and demonically possesed against any judge that they perceive to be conservatice/constructionst. Remember Judge Bork? Short memory, huh? Too bad that he let it be known how he felt about the RIGHT TO KILL, standing tall for RIGHT TO LIFE. Since it was known how he felt before the confirmation hearings the Democrats marshalled every evil force to defeat his nomination. Well, they did. We lost probably one of the greatest justice appointment to the Bench since Oliver Wendell Holmes appointed by Teddy Rosevelt.

I've said it before, it is worth saying again. I would again vote for possibly the 2nd worse president in the last 100 years for a 3rd term and 4th term, even if it meant that USA would be plunged into the greatest depression in its HISTORY if it meant that we could replace Ruth Beta Ginsberg, now 77 and John Paul Stevens, now 87 with another Thomas, or Scalia. Think of the millions of babies that would be saved from the great American HOLOCAUST. I would prefer a DEPRESSION SO SEVERE IT WOULD POP OUT THE EYEBALLS, than to see this great WICKNESS to continue.

So, if you Apostolics vote in another DEMOCRAT as president, he will replace John Paul Stevens and Ruth Beta Ginzberg with exactly their type, leaving NO HOPE that Roe v. Wade will be overturned. THE RIGHT TO KILL will remain in tact. If there are 10,000 Apostolics that vote in a Democrat and there are a million babies killed every year, an annual rate of 10,000 slaughtered children per year can be attributed to your guilt. Therefore, it becomes a MORAL issue for each and every Apostolic.

No, this is not an economic issue, even though there was a dip in abortions in 1997. It is the conscience of America issue. The Republicans know it. Most are determined to fight the RIGHT TO KILL. I will place my support to anyone or anything that will commit to cease this horrible, evil, wicked practice by getting the Judicial branch of Government working like it should. The Republicans are commited to it.

[Sam]

...That's really NEAT. So it is with Universal Health Care. The government will MANDATE, under their proposals that YOU BUY IT.
...
Meanwhile, there is not much left of our nation that was established on the principles of the free enterprise system. Little will be left for our children and their children. Personal responsibility is an outdated idea, nanny government to take care of us all is very much in vogue in the Democrat party.

Ted Kennedy once explained how health insurance will will be provided and cost us nothing. He said, "If you work, your employer will pay for it. If you don't work, the government will pay for it."

I am retired from GE and both my wife and I are on Medicare. Right now, $93.50 is deducted from each of our Social Security checks each month for Medicare. That amounts to $187 per month for both of us or $2244 per year. In addition, we have a supplemental insurance provided by GE to cover some of the stuff the government insurance does not cover. That costs us $208 per month or $2496 per year. So we are currently paying $4740 per year for medical insurance. GE negotiates insurance costs and keeps them low for us but they go up every year. We have already been informed that the deduction from our Social Security checks for Medicare will go up in 2008 as they have in previous years.

As seniors, we see our expenses go up each year as the income remains fixed. This results in what is like a cut in income for us each year. I shudder to think how much of a cut we will take under a Socialist/Democratic administration as they "provide" us with universal health care.

[BrotherEastman]

To All My Democrat Friends:
Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2008, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only Americain the Western Hemisphere. Also, this wish is made without regard to the race, cree d, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee’.


To My Republican Friends:

Merry Christmas and a Happy and Prosperous New Year!
I love it! Post of the day! LOL!

[BrotherEastman]

Don't think that I've read anything less informed that this.

To pull the funding would take 60% of both the House and Senate...not 51%. Neither the Democrats or the Republicans have that kind of majority. Neither is there enough majority of the House, Senate, and States to pass a Constitution Admendment that would codify against RIGHT TO KILL, and DEFINING MARRIAGE between one man and one woman.

The last Constitutional Admendment that passed both House and Senate, then presented to each of the 50 States for ratification was the HUGELY popular Equal Rights Amendment which narrowly failed. Therefore the Republicans alone do not have the power to enact such restrictions. If it were left up to Republican Presidents alone, these evil practices would have been abolished long ago...even before they got started. Ronald Reagan was OUTRAGED by the practice of killing these little babies before they were born. So has every Republican president since Roe V. Wade. Democrat presidents LOVE IT...THEY LOVE TO KILL those babies and support the murderous women's RIGHT TO KILL both by voice, vote, legislature, and appointment to the Bench.

Not so with the Republican presidents. They voice against it, the veto further legislation, and appoint men such as Scalia, Thomas, Alito, and Roberts to the bench that WILL FIGHT IT, tooth and nail. Already, with one swing vote has the DEMOCRAT partial birth abortion been struck down by a 5 to 4 vote.

What a horrible practice the Democrats defended. Partial birth... My God! Even late term. Too gruesome to even think about on a fully developed child at the time of birth...puncturing the skull of a little baby whom the Lord of heaven chose to send into the world, then suck the little darling's brains out and collpase its skull. Some of the more gruesome practices have included chopping of the head of the baby as it was being born.

Got the Democrats...not the republicans...and all the jumping, asile running and shouting Apostolics who voted for them to THANK FOR THAT!

But the Democrats are so livid and demonically possesed against any judge that they perceive to be conservatice/constructionst. Remember Judge Bork? Short memory, huh? Too bad that he let it be known how he felt about the RIGHT TO KILL, standing tall for RIGHT TO LIFE. Since it was known how he felt before the confirmation hearings the Democrats marshalled every evil force to defeat his nomination. Well, they did. We lost probably one of the greatest justice appointment to the Bench since Oliver Wendell Holmes appointed by Teddy Rosevelt.

I've said it before, it is worth saying again. I would again vote for possibly the 2nd worse president in the last 100 years for a 3rd term and 4th term, even if it meant that USA would be plunged into the greatest depression in its HISTORY if it meant that we could replace Ruth Beta Ginsberg, now 77 and John Paul Stevens, now 87 with another Thomas, or Scalia. Think of the millions of babies that would be saved from the great American HOLOCAUST. I would prefer a DEPRESSION SO SEVERE IT WOULD POP OUT THE EYEBALLS, than to see this great WICKNESS to continue.

So, if you Apostolics vote in another DEMOCRAT as president, he will replace John Paul Stevens and Ruth Beta Ginzberg with exactly their type, leaving NO HOPE that Roe v. Wade will be overturned. THE RIGHT TO KILL will remain in tact. If there are 10,000 Apostolics that vote in a Democrat and there are a million babies killed every year, an annual rate of 10,000 slaughtered children per year can be attributed to your guilt. Therefore, it becomes a MORAL issue for each and every Apostolic.

No, this is not an economic issue, even though there was a dip in abortions in 1997. It is the conscience of America issue. The Republicans know it. Most are determined to fight the RIGHT TO KILL. I will place my support to anyone or anything that will commit to cease this horrible, evil, wicked practice by getting the Judicial branch of Government working like it should. The Republicans are commited to it.
So what happened when we had a republican majority? Please!

[Sister Alvear]

remember politics in the days of Jesus?

[Apprehended]

So what happened when we had a republican majority? Please!

Didn't you read my posts?

Republican majority is NOT enough. On issues like this, you must have 60% in the House and Senate. Republicans have never had that KIND of a majority. A time or two, there was ALMOST enough majority to do it, but not quite. At least they have put forth a heroic effort on more than one occasions.

If I recall correctly, it was in 1991 or 92 that an important piece of legislature authored by the Republicans in the Senate to overturn partial birth abortion that was subsequently blocked by the Democrats in the name of Right to Choose, read Right to Kill. I recall still the Senator Bob Smith a heroric Republican who stood for over three hours filberbusting against an amendment that would have virtually killed the bill, authored by a Democrat.

I recall how passionate he was. I watched as the man pled with the Senate so passionately that I was moved to tears. I had never seen anything like it before nor have I since. I tried to call his office to speak to him...it was so powerful. The wicked, evil, hard-hearted Democrats prevailed. The wicked, grotesque partial birth proceedure continued until it was finally overtuned with a more conservative leaning Supreme Court. There was only a small mention of Senator Smith in the news.

I would vote for ANY man or woman, be they Democrat or Republican who will appoint constructionist Justices to the Bench. Let the self-centered, prosperity loving at any cost, addicted to ease and comfort suffer a very hard winter of depression, but for the cause of getting "original intent" judges back on the bench.

Just this past week, exclusively Democrats voted against Christianity in Congress. Congress voted in overwhelming favor of Ramadan, the high holy Day and the high holy day of the Hindu religion as well...not ONE Democrat objecting. Then, Christianity's Christmas came up for a vote as to it's importance in American life. Yes, you guessed it. The Democrats voted against putting it on the same level of importance as Ramadan and the Hindu holy day...only Democrats. There were no Republican votes against it. There were a total of NINE DEMOCRATS that voted against Christian's Christmas who voted for recognizing the importance of the heathern religions' importance in America.

They are Godless...hating the very word Christian. Yet, an Apostolic will vote for these devils for office. I am aghast.

I've always said and believed, "A nation, whatever it may be, DESERVES the government that they have."

[Hoovie]

Can Apostolics be Democrats?

Sure for a period of time... a very short period...

like about as long as it takes to make their way to an old fashioned altar!


:)

[Apprehended]

Can Apostolics be Democrats?

Sure for a period of time... a very short period...

like about as long as it takes to make their way to an old fashioned altar!


:)

LOL....

Do you actually believe that the blood of Jesus can wash away such a deep stain of guilt?

I'm impressed by the power of the blood. :D

[Hoovie]

LOL....

Do you actually believe that the blood of Jesus can wash away such a deep stain of guilt?

I'm impressed by the power of the blood. :D

We have to believe the word of God even if we see little evidence, "...and such were some of you..."

[Apprehended]

remember politics in the days of Jesus?

Do I ever?????

No different today. It's the same. Nothing has changed.

Wicked politics drove Jesus to the cross after he was spat upon, mocked, beaten with stripes, and placed a crown of thorns upon his loving brow. That was not enough, even in death they drove a spear into his side.

It's the same today. Nothing has changed. The world hates him as much today as they did then.

Many disciples are the same as they were then. They will watch from afar, hide in the shadows and DO NOTHING, sometime even being embarassed to profess before the world that they know him.

Today's silent, do nothing, run and hide disciples are as complicit in the awful crime against heaven as they were then, so long ago. Nothing has changed but for the courageous few that will speak out against and act against wickedness in HIGH PLACES of government.

[BrotherEastman]

Well, in any case, I couldn't with a good enough consience to run the aisles, shout, and dance before the Lord knowing that I voted for a republican or a communistic democrat. LOL!

[berkeley]

I think Republicans treat the Fundamentalist Christians just like Democrats treat African-Americans. They use fear and lies and all sorts of silly promises to motivate us to vote for them and then never follow through and get anything done.

I could not have said it any better myself...

[Apprehended]

Ted Kennedy once explained how health insurance will will be provided and cost us nothing. He said, "If you work, your employer will pay for it. If you don't work, the government will pay for it."

I am retired from GE and both my wife and I are on Medicare. Right now, $93.50 is deducted from each of our Social Security checks each month for Medicare. That amounts to $187 per month for both of us or $2244 per year. In addition, we have a supplemental insurance provided by GE to cover some of the stuff the government insurance does not cover. That costs us $208 per month or $2496 per year. So we are currently paying $4740 per year for medical insurance. GE negotiates insurance costs and keeps them low for us but they go up every year. We have already been informed that the deduction from our Social Security checks for Medicare will go up in 2008 as they have in previous years.

As seniors, we see our expenses go up each year as the income remains fixed. This results in what is like a cut in income for us each year. I shudder to think how much of a cut we will take under a Socialist/Democratic administration as they "provide" us with universal health care.

I shutter too. I also get stammering lips but not in a good sort of way.

Remember what happend to Auto liability when it became mandated by the government? It skyrocketed in price.

There is nothing free. If some thinks that Health insurance is free because they get it from the company that they work for, they should not get out of bed in the morning. They are too blind. There is absolutely nothing free. You pay and you pay more when the government gets involved in it.

Under all of these Democrat Health insurance plans including Edwards, Hillary's and Osama's, it will all be government mandated. There is not much difference in either of their plans. A health insurance plan that would normally run five or six hundred dollars a month 80/20 co-pay with drug benefits, will double under a government mandate in a short period of time...just like auto insurance did.

But the unwashed masses that believe their lies will vote for them thinking that they are getting something FOR FREE. Hahaha... The rest of us can only laugh at the duped children following the Pied Piper merrily along.

Don't tell them that there is nothing free. They will think that you are dumb, being the progressives that they are.

[Aquila]

To All My Democrat Friends:
Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2008, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only Americain the Western Hemisphere. Also, this wish is made without regard to the race, cree d, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee’.


To My Republican Friends:

Merry Christmas and a Happy and Prosperous New Year!

This is funny, but a mischaracterization.

[Aquila]

This is really funny...in a wierd kind of way.

Much of the deceived public by the notion of Universal Health Care are enthusiastic about their six Democrat candidates who have promised that they would work toward getting it implemented.

It is really funny and absurd too.

The Universal Health Care plan works like the Universal Auto Insurance plan. If you drive a car on public thoroughfares, you MUST have insurnace. The government is not going to give it to you FREE. You must find a provider to buy it from.

That's really NEAT. So it is with Universal Health Care. The government will MANDATE, under their proposals that YOU BUY IT. When Hillary is pressed on the question how it is that she feels that the government can MANDATE that every citizen BUY health care for themselves, she says, "The same way that the government is already MANDATING that Auto Insurance be bought."

When asked about what kind of penalties would she suggests to be imposed upon an objector that refuses it, she said, "That is something that would have to be negotiated and worked out in Congress."

The Democrat party is the party of slavery. If you like bondage, then that is the party for you. Go for it. Personally, I don't like government mandates.

But anyway, thinking back over the Auto Insurance that the government mandated I recall how cheap the insurance was before the mandate. After the insurance companies bought and paid for enough Democrat politicians they finally got that law passed, state by state. What happened to the prive of Auto Insurance? I remember it WELL. The price went right through the roof.

What do you think will happen to the cost of Health Insurance when it becomes mandated by the government that you buy it? Right! The price will go right through the roof. Why? Well just think about it. It is really simple economics...good economics when the health providers and drug companies have the majority politicians in their shirt pockets...completely bought and paid for by the likes of George Soros and all other stock manipulators who care NOTHING about health care for all Americans but only for their balooning portfolios.

Meanwhile, with the climbing costs as the results of government mandates, in the name of "caring" and "compassion" (what a crock) are forcing more and more companies off shore. Under the Clinton Administration they begin leaving by the droves. Do you remember the story of Studebaker car company?

If you think that the Democrat party is in love with you...I hardly know what to say. When they realize that they can stay in power by giving the keys of the treasury to the insane for a vote, they will do it.

Meanwhile, there is not much left of our nation that was established on the principles of the free enterprise system. Little will be left for our children and their children. Personal responsibility is an outdated idea, nanny government to take care of us all is very much in vogue in the Democrat party.

The plans on the table with most Democrats today are more similar to the free market Republican ideas.

The idea is that "market forces" will drive down cost. If everyone was insured then hospitals will get paid. If hospitals get paid they have no loss to hand down to the consumer. If those losses are not handed down to the consumer the insurance companies will be challenged to lower insurance premiums.

It's real basic economics dude.

[ChristopherHall]

The plans on the table with most Democrats today are more similar to the free market Republican ideas.

The idea is that "market forces" will drive down cost. If everyone was insured then hospitals will get paid. If hospitals get paid they have no loss to hand down to the consumer. If those losses are not handed down to the consumer the insurance companies will be challenged to lower insurance premiums.

It's real basic economics dude.

Actually the plans being introduced by the Democrats right now will not remedy the situation. We need to either start turning people away from emergency rooms if they don't have insurance or move to a single payer system. There is the off chance that if the Democrats mandate health insurance it might drive costs down seeing that it's so high because we're paying for so many of the uninsured right now in higher premiums. If they offer a government insurance program to compete with the private insurance program it will not only drive costs of health care down, thus effecting insurance rates, it will cause competition between the government system and the private system...thus using the market forces you spoke of to force insurance companies to lower costs to keep customers. The Democrats are banking on the fact that since the government plan will be cheaper because it will cost less in taxes than the private plans with premiums and co-pays that most voluntarily move to the public system.

[ChristopherHall]

If yall want to depate health care in the US we can go here:


http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?p=300703#post300703

My point is that an Apostolic can be a Democrat...but be advised...their Republican brothers will hate them and spit all kinds of vitrol upon them.

[ManOfWord]

If yall want to depate health care in the US we can go here:


http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?p=300703#post300703

My point is that an Apostolic can be a Democrat...but be advised...their Republican brothers will hate them and spit all kinds of vitrol upon them.

Hmmmmm....I'm wondering, CH, are you a Democrat? Do you feel that hatred and vitriol is being spewed upon you?

[ManOfWord]

To All My Democrat Friends:
Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2008, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only Americain the Western Hemisphere. Also, this wish is made without regard to the race, cree d, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee’.


To My Republican Friends:

Merry Christmas and a Happy and Prosperous New Year!

I gotta say, Rhoni, THAT was a golden nugget for the liberals...be they D's or be they R's, and most of them are probably D's!! :D

[Apprehended]

Hmmmmm....I'm wondering, CH, are you a Democrat? Do you feel that hatred and vitriol is being spewed upon you?

You have a good point here....

Anytime you are hemmed up into a corner with no answer to reason, of course it would be called vitriol. Naturally...

[Sam]

This makes the rounds on email every so often. I have not checked with Snopes to see if it is true or not. It may be just another of those urban legends which make the rounds.

Our Social Security

Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat, introduced the Social
Security (FICA) Program. He promised:

1.) That participation in the Program would be
Completely voluntary,

2.) That the participants would only have to pay
1% of the first $1,400 of their annual
Incomes into the Program,

3.) That the money the participants elected to put
Into the Program would be deductible from
Their income for tax purposes each year,

4.) That the money the participants put into the
Independent "Trust Fund" rather than into the
General operating fund, and therefore, would
Only be used to fund the Social Security
Retirement Program, and no other
Government program, and,

5.) That the annuity payments to the retirees
Would never be taxed as income.


Since many of us have paid into FICA for years and are
Now receiving a Social Security check every month -- And then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of
the money we paid to the Federal government to "put
away" -- you may be interested in the following:

-------------------------------------------------------------
I: Which Political Party took Social Security from the
Independent "Trust Fund" and put it into the
General fund so that Congress could spend it?

A: It was Lyndon Johnson and the democratically
Controlled House and Senate.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Which Political Party eliminated the income tax
Deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding?

A: The Democratic Party.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Which Political Party started taxing Social
Security annuities?

A: The Democratic Party, with Al Gore casting the
"tie-breaking" deciding vote as President of the
Senate, while he was Vice President of the US

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Which Political Party decided to start giving
Annuity payments to immigrants?

AND MY FAVORITE:

A: That's right!

Jimmy Carter and the Democratic Party.
Immigrants moved into this country, and at age 65,
began to receive Social Security payments! The
Democratic Party gave these payments to them,
even though they never paid a dime into it!

---------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Then, after violating the original contract (FICA), the Democrats turn
around and tell you that the Republicans want to take your Social Security
away!

And the worst part about it is uninformed citizens believe it!

[Hawkman]

I can't even believe that we are discussing the merits of socialism! If the democrats have their way, the US will be socialistic and everyone will be paupers except the elite. Form the womb to the tomb, that is how the dems want to take care of us and keep us under their governmental thumb. Boy, I just can't wait to totally lose my freedom and become like a communist country. Why don't we just quit fooling around and ask Hugo Chavez to take the presidency? Sheesh!

[BrotherEastman]

I can't even believe that we are discussing the merits of socialism! If the democrats have their way, the US will be socialistic and everyone will be paupers except the elite. Form the womb to the tomb, that is how the dems want to take care of us and keep us under their governmental thumb. Boy, I just can't wait to totally lose my freedom and become like a communist country. Why don't we just quit fooling around and ask Hugo Chavez to take the presidency? Sheesh!
This is where you and I will have to agree about the democrats. However, I don't think that we have a better chance at freedom with the republicans.

[Rhoni]

I gotta say, Rhoni, THAT was a golden nugget for the liberals...be they D's or be they R's, and most of them are probably D's!! :D

My Pastor spoke on not allowing Christ to be taken out of Christmas so I purchased the only Christmas cards I could find which stated it was Christ's birthday and I sent them out to a few friends. They were cheap and on recycled paper but I just couldn't send out Happy Holidays and feel good about it.

I am moderate. I am Republican and proud of it.:santathumb

Blessings, Rhoni

[Sister Truth Seeker]

Since the Democratic party platform is primarily liberal to the core, believing in:

Abortion on demand
Gay Marriage & gays as a special interest group
BIG government
More government control of citizen's lives
Silencing the Christian voice in America
Removing the 10 commandments

and a host of other causes that are un-biblical..........can a true Apostolic be a Democrat who believes in these things and please God?



Just wondering. This will be the first election that I will be voting as a registered Independent. :DNO they can't, if they are they are democrats they are not real/true Christians...IMO

[ManOfWord]

NO they can't, if they are they are democrats they are not real/true Christians...IMO

You go Girl!!!!!!! :D

[Hoovie]

NO they can't, if they are they are democrats they are not real/true Christians...IMO

Though I am to the right of Pat Buchanan I could not in good consience say this... Only God knows the hearts and motives involved -- IMO

[ChristopherHall]

Hmmmmm....I'm wondering, CH, are you a Democrat? Do you feel that hatred and vitriol is being spewed upon you?

I'm primarily a Republican because I've voted Rep. more than Dem. I'm registered R but in all honesty I'm more independent. And yes, with terms like DemonCrat etc. I know from talking with other Christians that many Christians feel religiously condemned by brothers and sisters in Christ based merely upon their political opinion.

[Neck]

My Pastor spoke on not allowing Christ to be taken out of Christmas so I purchased the only Christmas cards I could find which stated it was Christ's birthday and I sent them out to a few friends. They were cheap and on recycled paper but I just couldn't send out Happy Holidays and feel good about it.

I am moderate. I am Republican and proud of it.:santathumb

Blessings, Rhoni

Rhoni,
I agree. These folks that think they should not celebrate the birth of Christ because of Pagen this and pagen that.

They are allowing the message of salvation be lost around the world.

It has been stated that in America they are doing more to bury their God than to celebrate his birth.

That was from a muslim cleric from Iraq.

They love the fact that even socalled Christians will walk away from a Christian holiday.

Keep it up.

I agree with you.

[Neck]

I'm primarily a Republican because I've voted Rep. more than Dem. I'm registered R but in all honesty I'm more independent. And yes, with terms like DemonCrat etc. I know from talking with other Christians that many Christians feel religiously condemned by brothers and sisters in Christ based merely upon their political opinion.


I know one thing I will not vote for a Democrat.

[ChristopherHall]

Didn't you read my posts?


If I recall correctly, it was in 1991 or 92 that an important piece of legislature authored by the Republicans in the Senate to overturn partial birth abortion that was subsequently blocked by the Democrats in the name of Right to Choose, read Right to Kill. I recall still the Senator Bob Smith a heroric Republican who stood for over three hours filberbusting against an amendment that would have virtually killed the bill, authored by a Democrat.

Actually there's more to it than that. The SCOTUS has specified what kind of partial birth abortion ban would stand the Constitutional muster. The Republicans purposefully drafted a partial birth abortion ban disregarding the SCOTUS and their requirements. Several key Democrats who would like to see a partial birth abortion ban that can pass severely chastized the Republicans for not drafting a ban that would stand against the SCOTUS. So both moderate and leftwing Democrats united to oppose the Republican game. You have to REALLY understand what's happening. It's POLITICS. The Republicans weren't trying to ban partial birth abortion. The Republicans wanted a bill that merely "looked" like a partial birth abortion ban. That would force Democrats to go "on record" against the supposed ban. Also they had insurance. By not meeting the requirements of the SCOTUS Republicans KNEW that the ban would be overturned by the SCOTUS even if it happened to pass. Therefore they can call the Democrats on record and KEEP THE ISSUE ALIVE FOR ANOTHER ELECTION CYCLE. It was playing pure politics with the value of life. Just like with Terri's case.

I recall how passionate he was. I watched as the man pled with the Senate so passionately that I was moved to tears. I had never seen anything like it before nor have I since. I tried to call his office to speak to him...it was so powerful. The wicked, evil, hard-hearted Democrats prevailed. The wicked, grotesque partial birth proceedure continued until it was finally overtuned with a more conservative leaning Supreme Court. There was only a small mention of Senator Smith in the news.

Yep...you believed them. Awww dem poor Repubwicans and dem evwil Democwats. Awwww. Frankly both parties are as morally bankrupt as they come. As time passes I'm sincerely thinking that if any Christian marries their politics with any political party they're hellbound where they stand seeing that they're buying into lies of the world.

Vote what will effect your family personally and then get out of politics bros. It will corrupt you.

I would vote for ANY man or woman, be they Democrat or Republican who will appoint constructionist Justices to the Bench. Let the self-centered, prosperity loving at any cost, addicted to ease and comfort suffer a very hard winter of depression, but for the cause of getting "original intent" judges back on the bench.

Constructionist judges is a mythologica thing used to manipulate weak minded individuals that fail to see that even the so called "constructionist judges" have departed from our founders intentions. For example most believe a "Constructionist judge" will stand to protect marriage. Wrong. A true "Constructionist judge" would rule that the government has no right to regulate marriage in any way shape or form. You have to understand...marriage licenses and marriage laws weren't something on the books until the legislatures were trying to force people to get marriage licenses. Why did they do that? Because they were trying to prevent inter racial marriages. A Constructionist would tell the government to back out of the marriage business entirely. So much for the so called "Constructionist judges".

Just this past week, exclusively Democrats voted against Christianity in Congress. Congress voted in overwhelming favor of Ramadan, the high holy Day and the high holy day of the Hindu religion as well...not ONE Democrat objecting. Then, Christianity's Christmas came up for a vote as to it's importance in American life. Yes, you guessed it. The Democrats voted against putting it on the same level of importance as Ramadan and the Hindu holy day...only Democrats. There were no Republican votes against it. There were a total of NINE DEMOCRATS that voted against Christian's Christmas who voted for recognizing the importance of the heathern religions' importance in America.

I want to know DETAILS please. First, Christmas is an established holiday and the government already recognizes it. Only other traditions are yet to be recognized, therefore it makes perfect sense that they would be presented and voted upon. Those wishing to throw Christmas into the mix are only trying to CREATE the illusion that Democrats "voted against Christmas". Besides...Christmas is a materialistic, largely pagan holiday anyway. For the first fifty years in American history Christians refused to celebrate it. Funny how we buy into everything the Reeps throw at us.

They are Godless...hating the very word Christian. Yet, an Apostolic will vote for these devils for office. I am aghast.

It's an illusion friend. 43% percent of registered Democrats are pro-life. DFLA (Democrats for Life of America) also lists numerous Democrats currently serving who are pro-life. Nearly all the top Republicans up for the Presidential nomination were once Pro-Choice. It's a big game the Republicans play to alienate us from the Democrats by manipulating our religious convictions.

[ChristopherHall]

I know one thing I will not vote for a Democrat.

I can respect that. I know few Democrats I'd vote for. However, the issue is the outright hatred against fellow Apostolics who might vote Democrat because they're deep into the labor issues or their family is in desperate need of relief when it comes to health insurance and they believe the Democrats might do a better job than the Republicans. It's the hatred I can't respect. Personally I'm a Huckabee fan...but there are two Democrats that could get my attention should Huckabee fail to gain the nomination. Of course if I vote MY conscience on the issue my "brothers" and my "sisters" will make me feel like a second class citizen and call me a two fold child of hell because I didn't vote like them. Honestly...it hurts and I think we need to GROW UP.

[ChristopherHall]

You go Girl!!!!!!! :D

One CAN'T be a true Christian Apostolic and vote Republian either. In all honesty the only party that comes close to being "Christian" is the Constitutionalist party.

Let's agree on this one...all Apostolics voting Republican or Democrat are phonies. That I might be able to agree with simply because it maintains more consistant logic.

[Sam]

I have voted for a couple of Democrats in my time.

Many years ago I voted for Scoop Jackson in a Democratic Presidential Primary. He didn't get the nomination.

In Hamilton County, Ohio we have three County Commissioners. They have historically been Republicans. The Cincinnati Bengals (our football team) wanted a new stadium that they would not have to share with the Cincinnati Reds (our baseball team). So the Commissioners established an increase in our sales tax (county wide) to pay for tearing down our current stadium/ball field and replace it with 2 new ones --one for the Reds and one for the Bengals. At the next election one of the three spots was open on the County Commission so the unthinkable happened. We voted in a Democrat. Next time a spot was open, another Democrat got voted in. But, we'll be paying that increased sales task for many more years.

Also, in 1964 when LBJ ran against Barry Goldwater we were all warned that if we voted for Goldwater there would be demonstrations and rioting in the streets. Well, I voted for Goldwater, and sure enough, we had demonstrations and rioting in the streets.

[Ferd]

One CAN'T be a true Christian Apostolic and vote Republian either. In all honesty the only party that comes close to being "Christian" is the Constitutionalist party.

Let's agree on this one...all Apostolics voting Republican or Democrat are phonies. That I might be able to agree with simply because it maintains more consistant logic.

Nope, nope, nope. cant agree on that at all.

one CAN but does not HAVE to be a republican and be a christian. However, one cannot be a democrat and be a christian.

[Ferd]

I'm primarily a Republican because I've voted Rep. more than Dem. I'm registered R but in all honesty I'm more independent. And yes, with terms like DemonCrat etc. I know from talking with other Christians that many Christians feel religiously condemned by brothers and sisters in Christ based merely upon their political opinion.

It is DemonRat and they should feel condemned for voting for baby killers.

[Apprehended]

I am almost tempted to say that I would vote for the devil if he would promise to appoint conservative/constructionist judges to the Supreme Bench who would help to overturn the RIGHT TO KILL humanity by the millions who are yet unborn. But I'll not go quite that far.

However, it would not be hard to convince me that these Democrats are possessed of the DEVIL himself. They hate everything called Christian. They love and court the SODOMITES for their cause.

I do not believe anyone with a conscience can vote for a Democrat given the absolute stand for all that is evil and anti-christ. I certainly do not believe anyone has the sweet voice of the Spirit of God speaking within them who will then cast their vote for those DEVILS. No way! We've seen too much killing already in the great American Holocaust. Angels are weeping over this. But, it is hard to believe that anyone who names the name of Christ can support such evil. The bible tells us, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ DEPART from evil."

[Aquila]

I think if the truth were told, the Republicans are just as pro-choice as the Democrats. But hey, there's no room for truth in the partisan politics I'm seeing here played by brothers who are condemning other brothers. The Republicans are very warmongering and no one cares about the innocent lives lost in the Republican military exploits. Such compromise will land a soul in Hell as quickly as being pro-choice.

I can see the point made above, if any Christian were to truly vote according to “Christian convictions” no Christian could vote for either party (Democratic or Republican). Each party forces a Christian to compromise elements of Christian conviction for the advancement of the political party in question. In recent years it has become evident that the Republicans are excellent liars and pretenders when it comes to pandering to the Christian vote. Who’s a better candidate, a person who lies about being a Christian and believing in Christian values or someone who is rather secular and is honest about it?

The Republican party is playing a game. They are just as liberal on the issues of marriage and abortion as the Democrats.

So since we will be judged by the standard by which we judge others I can honestly say that a vote for either party is a grave sin in the eyes of God. Perhaps Christians could do more for our country by preaching the gospel than they can through using the unsaved worldly political system. The first Apostolic church turned the Roman world upside down by preaching….not by politics. Perhaps our marriage of faith and politics (liberal or conservative) is a grave heresy, a compromise, a testimony to our weakness of faith. I can see why early holiness Christians (Methodists, Amish, Minnonite, etc.) taught that participation in politics was sinful. It causes one to compromise and draw lines and attack fellow brothers and sisters who do not politically agree with us.

So far I’m questioning who’s saved and who isn’t here. If you can’t love a brother or sister who is of the opposite earthly political opinion…you’re damned where you stand.

“All art punished.”

[Apprehended]

Aquila...

I could not disagree any more. On every point...I disagree. Too much proof otherwise.

[Monkeyman]

I think if the truth were told, the Republicans are just as pro-choice as the Democrats. But hey, there's no room for truth in the partisan politics I'm seeing here played by brothers who are condemning other brothers. The Republicans are very warmongering and no one cares about the innocent lives lost in the Republican military exploits. Such compromise will land a soul in Hell as quickly as being pro-choice.

I can see the point made above, if any Christian were to truly vote according to “Christian convictions” no Christian could vote for either party (Democratic or Republican). Each party forces a Christian to compromise elements of Christian conviction for the advancement of the political party in question. In recent years it has become evident that the Republicans are excellent liars and pretenders when it comes to pandering to the Christian vote. Who’s a better candidate, a person who lies about being a Christian and believing in Christian values or someone who is rather secular and is honest about it?

The Republican party is playing a game. They are just as liberal on the issues of marriage and abortion as the Democrats.

So since we will be judged by the standard by which we judge others I can honestly say that a vote for either party is a grave sin in the eyes of God. Perhaps Christians could do more for our country by preaching the gospel than they can through using the unsaved worldly political system. The first Apostolic church turned the Roman world upside down by preaching….not by politics. Perhaps our marriage of faith and politics (liberal or conservative) is a grave heresy, a compromise, a testimony to our weakness of faith. I can see why early holiness Christians (Methodists, Amish, Minnonite, etc.) taught that participation in politics was sinful. It causes one to compromise and draw lines and attack fellow brothers and sisters who do not politically agree with us.

So far I’m questioning who’s saved and who isn’t here. If you can’t love a brother or sister who is of the opposite earthly political opinion…you’re damned where you stand.

“All art punished.”:scoregood

[Monkeyman]

Aquila...

I could not disagree any more. On every point...I disagree. Too much proof otherwise.Lets save us some time, I'll use your words, but I will direct them at you.

[ManOfWord]

I'm primarily a Republican because I've voted Rep. more than Dem. I'm registered R but in all honesty I'm more independent. And yes, with terms like DemonCrat etc. I know from talking with other Christians that many Christians feel religiously condemned by brothers and sisters in Christ based merely upon their political opinion.

I think you're missing the whole point here. I'll put out what I believe about this whole thing. I have been an Executive Director of a Federal PAC for a few years which will support ANYONE, D, R, or I who lives, not just espouses conservative Judeo-Christian principles.

Any Apostolic who votes ONLY along party lines when it comes to candidates does NOT please God! (IMO) What is more important than the party the candidate is registered to is the beliefs the candidate holds. Our PAC was instrumental in getting the first black mayor elected to Youngstown, OH recently. He was basically a D running as an I. I personally sat down with him and had a good talk about where he stood. We also recently endorsed a Democrat, who was running for mayor of another city in Ohio. This man was truly a conservative Christian who knew that he had to run as a D.

I can in good conscience vote for a Democrat who is a "DINO" but I cannot ever vote for a liberal who is trying to bring socialism to the US. It sounds to me like you espouse many of the principles of socialism and would be happy to see them implemented in American politics and society.

Truthfully, I am ticked with the R's for using & abusing me as one of their supporters, but I am vehemently opposed to the Democratic platform and what they predominantly stand for. There are far more left wing wackos in the D party than there are in the R party. I don't know how long that will last until the R's become just as bad. :D

[Ferd]

I think you're missing the whole point here. I'll put out what I believe about this whole thing. I have been an Executive Director of a Federal PAC for a few years which will support ANYONE, D, R, or I who lives, not just espouses conservative Judeo-Christian principles.

Any Apostolic who votes ONLY along party lines when it comes to candidates does NOT please God! (IMO) What is more important than the party the candidate is registered to is the beliefs the candidate holds. Our PAC was instrumental in getting the first black mayor elected to Youngstown, OH recently. He was basically a D running as an I. I personally sat down with him and had a good talk about where he stood. We also recently endorsed a Democrat, who was running for mayor of another city in Ohio. This man was truly a conservative Christian who knew that he had to run as a D.

I can in good conscience vote for a Democrat who is a "DINO" but I cannot ever vote for a liberal who is trying to bring socialism to the US. It sounds to me like you espouse many of the principles of socialism and would be happy to see them implemented in American politics and society.

Truthfully, I am ticked with the R's for using & abusing me as one of their supporters, but I am vehemently opposed to the Democratic platform and what they predominantly stand for. There are far more left wing wackos in the D party than there are in the R party. I don't know how long that will last until the R's become just as bad. :D


I would add that in local politics it really doesnt matter what party one is associated with so long as (as you say) they espouse conservitive christian ideas.

Now on a national level, I think it is a different deal all together.
Lets say you elect a Pro-Life democrat to the Senate. then that guy becomes the 51st Democrat Senator. That gives the Dems control of the senate and while this one Dem Senator may be Pro-life, you have an Pro-Abortion adjenda getting pushed.

That is not to say that one should vote for liberal Republicans. But when national politics awe concerned, you have to weigh in the fact that both the House and Senate get controled by the national party, not just the guy you are electing.

And socialism is EVIL.

[Apprehended]

Lets save us some time, I'll use your words, but I will direct them at you.

I see the point that you disagree on above.

Even in that point, I do not believe that preaching turned the Roman world upside down. If preaching could have done it, our world today would have been turned upside down a dozen times or more...but there is hardly a dent and the world has no idea who we are in spite of all the endless preeeeeeaching, ad infinitum...

Just presenting another philosophy among so many others do not impress the world at all. Just another (apostolic so called) creed sitting up on a stump for the casual observer to examine does not move anything or anyone.

Paul did not go before the world with another pilosophy or theology one among many, but he went forth with the demonstration of the power of God and of the gospel. The world wants to see the demonstration and not just another big-mouth hawking another theory.

Just my opinion...

[Aquila]

I am almost tempted to say that I would vote for the devil if he would promise to appoint conservative/constructionist judges to the Supreme Bench who would help to overturn the RIGHT TO KILL humanity by the millions who are yet unborn.

That's the problem with blending religion and politics. You would vote for the devil himself if he supported your narrow political agenda. And the same goes for the Democratic Christians. You’re both in grave spiritual danger. Repent and come out form among both parties and find your place where you belong, preaching the Kingdom. That’s right, the Kingdom. We should be warning the Republicans and the Democrats that there power is short-lived and that they will perish when our King arrives unless they are born again.

All of you are worldly if you truly believe that politics is the answer. It’s a distraction straight from Hell. No abortion law has ever ended or reduced abortion. No anti-gay law has eliminated homosexuality. Each of you would have a nation that politically reflects what you believe to be Christian values on the outside…but your approach will leave America’s soul just as lost the day after you pass your laws as the day before.

God doesn’t care what laws are on the books. God cares about the human heart. God isn’t going to save America or any earthly nation, all systems will be dissolved and crumble under his righteous judgment. And if you’re faith is tied up in this world’s politics…you will be judged with this world’s politicians.

The system is corrupt and worldly. Always has been and always will be. If you think you can “reform” and “bless” the system you’ve deluded yourself or allowed one of the two political parties to delude you.

For the Christian the call to be “Christian” is all or nothing without any compromise or addition. There is no such thing as a “Republican Christian” or a “Democratic Christian”. There is only, “Christian”. If you wish to mix your faith with this world’s debased politics be my guest…but you’re playing with hell fire.

[Ferd]

have the socilists repented yet?

[Aquila]

And lastly, abortion and gay marriage are state issues. The Supereme Courts both Liberal and Conservative have always granted more power to the states on the matter. These are not Federal issues.

[Aquila]

If I were the Antichrist...I'd definately be a Republican. It would be the perfect strategy.

[Aquila]

The battle ground isn't Republican kingdom against the Democratic kingdom...it's Christ's Kingdom against the kingdoms of this world (both Republican and Democrat).

[Apprehended]

That's the problem with blending religion and politics. You would vote for the devil himself if he supported your narrow political agenda. And the same goes for the Democratic Christians. You’re both in grave spiritual danger. Repent and come out form among both parties and find your place where you belong, preaching the Kingdom. That’s right, the Kingdom. We should be warning the Republicans and the Democrats that there power is short-lived and that they will perish when our King arrives unless they are born again.

All of you are worldly if you truly believe that politics is the answer. It’s a distraction straight from Hell. No abortion law has ever ended or reduced abortion. No anti-gay law has eliminated homosexuality. Each of you would have a nation that politically reflects what you believe to be Christian values on the outside…but your approach will leave America’s soul just as lost the day after you pass your laws as the day before.

God doesn’t care what laws are on the books. God cares about the human heart. God isn’t going to save America or any earthly nation, all systems will be dissolved and crumble under his righteous judgment. And if you’re faith is tied up in this world’s politics…you will be judged with this world’s politicians.

The system is corrupt and worldly. Always has been and always will be. If you think you can “reform” and “bless” the system you’ve deluded yourself or allowed one of the two political parties to delude you.

For the Christian the call to be “Christian” is all or nothing without any compromise or addition. There is no such thing as a “Republican Christian” or a “Democratic Christian”. There is only, “Christian”. If you wish to mix your faith with this world’s debased politics be my guest…but you’re playing with hell fire.


You missed both the point and the attitude behind it. Go back and read it again. You know good and well that I did not say that I would vote for the devil. You totally missed the point...

In regards to your other point. Would you say, since there are no Republican or Democrat Christians, that there are also no American Christians?

btw...who is mixing politics with religion? Certain not I since religion is a matter of faith...not politics. Nevertheless, principles of faith lead me to defend the right and condemn the wrong regardless where it is found...in any party.

Like I said...I disagree with your every point. But then, that is my opinion alone.

[Aquila]

In regards to your other point. Would you say, since there are no Republican or Democrat Christians, that there are also no American Christians?

Yes, I’d say there are no “American Christians”, there are only “Christians”. Patriotism is a false god, an idolatrous beast that sacrifices our children and our faith for the advancement of an earthly nation and its agenda. A Christian should thank God for the blessings of having been born in America…but being born in America doesn’t produce a “special” kind of Christian. If you’ve spent much time outside of the United States you’ll understand what I’m about to say. Many Christians in foreign countries are disturbed by American Christianity’s pride and Nationalism (nation worship). The Christians in these countries know all too well how exploitive America can be and when Christians pretend that she is so great and special it only testifies to American’s spiritual bankruptcy.

[Aquila]

And socialism is EVIL.

I wouldn’t go that far. The distributist nature of the Old Testament economy as embodied in God’s law boarders on socialistic tendencies. Also the early church’s communal lifestyle also expresses a socialistic or communal view of life. I’d say that “Godless” socialism is evil. So is “Godless” capitalism”. There are many devout Christians (including Apostolics) who are proud citizens of European, Asian, or African nations who sincerely believe in a socialist political philosophy. Even the state of Israel is socialist today. Socialism is just another political philosophy. If embraced by the people as a result of free and democratic elections it is lawful. Both capitalism and socialism allow for great evils of they are not guided by God fearing leaders and citizens. Consider the fact that Canada’s national health care system was drafted by a Baptist minister. Am I to question his faith and classify him as “evil” simply because he preferred a socialist solution to a problem plaguing the nation of Canada? What about the many devout Christian men and women who have supported socialist politics in England? Am I to assume they’re “evil” because they believe a socialist solution to their society’s problems is in order? Sure, we may disagree with them…but to rank them or classify them as “evil”? I cannot do that. Personally I see your extremism as far more “evil”, damaging, and divisive to the body of Christ. I embrace my Christian brothers and sisters regardless of political views. But if we are to go the moralist rout of condemning one body politic over the other…I have to say that each deserves equal condemnation. Therefore one could just as easily say that capitalism is “evil”. But I assure you, they will be equally as wrong as you are. ;)

[ManOfWord]

I would add that in local politics it really doesnt matter what party one is associated with so long as (as you say) they espouse conservitive christian ideas.

Now on a national level, I think it is a different deal all together.
Lets say you elect a Pro-Life democrat to the Senate. then that guy becomes the 51st Democrat Senator. That gives the Dems control of the senate and while this one Dem Senator may be Pro-life, you have an Pro-Abortion adjenda getting pushed.

That is not to say that one should vote for liberal Republicans. But when national politics awe concerned, you have to weigh in the fact that both the House and Senate get controled by the national party, not just the guy you are electing.

And socialism is EVIL.

They may have the majority on paper, but if the members don't vote with them, they won't have the majority on the floor. I know plenty of office holders who will not vote the party line if it violates their values. Some of them it has cost them chairmanships etc. :D

[berkeley]

BTW, I'm a Democrat :)

[Ferd]

They may have the majority on paper, but if the members don't vote with them, they won't have the majority on the floor. I know plenty of office holders who will not vote the party line if it violates their values. Some of them it has cost them chairmanships etc. :D

MOW, I understand what you are saying but at the end of the day, the Speaker of the House and the Senate Majority Leader set the adjenda.

If you are as conservitive as Ronald Reagan (with hand over heart) but you are a democrat in the House, then you are part of that caucus. your presence insures the Speaker is a democrat and you can surely bet that speaker will be a wild eyed liberal.

I will say that IF I felt the best person for President was a Dem and that person was socially conservitive and I was confident they would appoint strict constructionists to the Supreme Court, it would not be a problem to vote for that guy no matter what. but that aint gonna happen.

socialism is evil! (this should be my signature.)

[Aquila]

It's terribly obvious that our Republican brothers are using condemnation to manipulate and condemn brothers and sisters who disagree with them politically. In all honesty more Christians should become involved in the Democratic party. If it's a party given over to the devil...that's only because Christians are not willing to participate and make a difference. There are a handful of Democratic governors who have deep Christian social values, they just simply don't agree with the corporatocracy Republicans embrace. Many of these Christian Democratic governors got in office because Christians involved themselves in Democratic politics.

But again...there's the unholy marriage of religion and politics.

[BrotherEastman]

BTW, I'm a Democrat :)
Sorry to hear that. They got something for that you know.

[Ferd]

It's terribly obvious that our Republican brothers are using condemnation to manipulate and condemn brothers and sisters who disagree with them politically. In all honesty more Christians should become involved in the Democratic party. If it's a party given over to the devil...that's only because Christians are not willing to participate and make a difference. There are a handful of Democratic governors who have deep Christian social values, they just simply don't agree with the corporatocracy Republicans embrace. Many of these Christian Democratic governors got in office because Christians involved themselves in Democratic politics.

But again...there's the unholy marriage of religion and politics.

I do not doubt you sincerity however, all I konw of the demonrat party is on the national level.
these are the things I am sure of.

They like policy that controls my legal behavior. (i dont like that)
They like policy that takes my money and redistributes it how they see fit (I dont like that)
They support Abortion, Homosexuality, and governement take over of large portions of the American economy....

plus all that extremely stupid junk invloved in Political Correctness has come from the demonrat party.

also they WANT AMERICA TO BE DISTROYED BY TERRORISTS.


so you can have them. as for me and My house WE WILL VOTE REPUBLICAN.

[Aquila]

I do not doubt you sincerity however, all I konw of the demonrat party is on the national level.
these are the things I am sure of.

They like policy that controls my legal behavior. (i dont like that)

Please elaborate. What legal behavior do they seek to “control”?

They like policy that takes my money and redistributes it how they see fit (I dont like that)

Seeing that Federal block grants are typically issued by the Fed to be distributed at the state and local levels I’m not sure how this applies to the Democrats on a national level. Now let’s be honest. Republicans typically offer massive tax breaks at the Federal level for corporations. BUT, the Republicans continue to spend like drunken sailors on shore leave….and even ask for more! Guess who has to make up the difference when tax breaks are offered to corporations? Us. The tax burden is shifted down to the middle class and is therefore disproportionate. That means we pay more than our fair share of taxes and corporations walk away with tax breaks, during years of record profits mind you. That’s corrupt, very corrupt.

So in all honesty I’m not sure what is worse; domestic programs that serve Americans or corporate tax breaks that place more tax burden on the backs of hard working Americans.

They support Abortion, Homosexuality, and governement take over of large portions of the American economy....

They don’t “support” these issues. Some leftwing nut cases do. But by and large Democrats just believe that the Federal government shouldn’t involve itself in abortion’s legality or private behavior and partnerships of private citizens. In a sense these used to be “conservative” values. The question is…does the Federal Government have Constitutional authority to intervene in abortion’s legality, private behaviors among citizens, or the establishment of legal partnerships? These have always been state level issues. Interestingly that’s also where you’ll find your Pro-Life Democrats. Democrats traditionally shift Pro-Choice upon running for Federal office because Democratic constituencies believe the Fed has no jurisdiction on the issue.

Do you believe that abortion is an issue better left addressed on the local and state level? If not please show me where the Federal Government is granted jurisdiction over this issue in the Constitution.

Do you believe that the Federal Government should regulate the private behaviors of law abiding citizens and their partnerships? If so please give us a Constitutional evidence that this is in the Feds jurisdiction.

Some portions of America’s economy are essential to the survival of America’s economic or social infrastructure. Sometimes these areas are best left under government control. For example national security.
plus all that extremely stupid junk invloved in Political Correctness has come from the demonrat party.

Isn’t your belligerent spirit labeling any Apostolic who doesn’t agree with you politically as “Demoncrat” or “Demorat” and such a form of “political correctness”?

also they WANT AMERICA TO BE DISTROYED BY TERRORISTS.
That’s a very stupid brainwashed statement. I know many Democrats who would never want such a thing. That’s pure propaganda and fear mongering. I fear you’re worshipping Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh without challenging their outlandish claims.

so you can have them. as for me and My house WE WILL VOTE REPUBLICAN.

You can vote as you choose and I still love and respect you. That’s the issue and the primary difference here. Democratic Apostolics will still love and respect you for voting Republican…however you would pronounce curses upon Apostolics who would not vote like you.

Let me now elaborate on some things. Republicans are increasingly willing to support Pro-Choice candidates. Also Republicans are showing a clear softness regarding the sanctity of marriage. However, they still pretend to have the moral high ground. Also Republicans increasingly support issuing tax dollars to state programs and non-profits (just like Democrats do). Republicans even drafted measures to include faith based organizations in their socialistic government handouts. And since you’ve sworn to vote Republican…does that make you a “Reprobatican” as opposed to a “Demonrat”?

You’re dripping with self-righteousness and belching propaganda and you can’t even see it. Your politics have blinded you from true light and truth. Both parties are morally bankrupt. Remember…with what measure you judge…that my friend is the measure you must meet.

As for you and your house…you can serve the Republicans and others can serve the Democrats. As for me and my house…we shall serve the Lord. ;)

[John Atkinson]

No, they cannot.

























or be republican, or constitutionalists or whatever. I think if we look at true Apostolics of the original church....they were apolitical.

They might of considered this exercise we go through every few years as entanglement with the world...


Something to consider, anyway.

[Aquila]

No, they cannot.

or be republican, or constitutionalists or whatever. I think if we look at true Apostolics of the original church....they were apolitical.

They might of considered this exercise we go through every few years as entanglement with the world...

Something to consider, anyway.

You're exactly right. The clear hatred coming from our Republican brothers here indicates how much damage "politics" can do to the unity of the body. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't a snare of the Devil.

The only consistant answers would be:

Yes. Apostolics can belong to either party working to be salt and light in said party.

or....

No. Apostolics cannot belong to either party seeing how both are morally debased and are only consumed with advancing their own earthly agendas and worldly authority.

It's all or nothing. There can be no compromise or free pass granted to either party if it matters at all.

So I vote that Apostolics who vote...may find themselves backslidden and in the very snare of the devil.

[Ferd]

Please elaborate. What legal behavior do they seek to “control”?



Seeing that Federal block grants are typically issued by the Fed to be distributed at the state and local levels I’m not sure how this applies to the Democrats on a national level. Now let’s be honest. Republicans typically offer massive tax breaks at the Federal level for corporations. BUT, the Republicans continue to spend like drunken sailors on shore leave….and even ask for more! Guess who has to make up the difference when tax breaks are offered to corporations? Us. The tax burden is shifted down to the middle class and is therefore disproportionate. That means we pay more than our fair share of taxes and corporations walk away with tax breaks, during years of record profits mind you. That’s corrupt, very corrupt.

So in all honesty I’m not sure what is worse; domestic programs that serve Americans or corporate tax breaks that place more tax burden on the backs of hard working Americans.



They don’t “support” these issues. Some leftwing nut cases do. But by and large Democrats just believe that the Federal government shouldn’t involve itself in abortion’s legality or private behavior and partnerships of private citizens. In a sense these used to be “conservative” values. The question is…does the Federal Government have Constitutional authority to intervene in abortion’s legality, private behaviors among citizens, or the establishment of legal partnerships? These have always been state level issues. Interestingly that’s also where you’ll find your Pro-Life Democrats. Democrats traditionally shift Pro-Choice upon running for Federal office because Democratic constituencies believe the Fed has no jurisdiction on the issue.

Do you believe that abortion is an issue better left addressed on the local and state level? If not please show me where the Federal Government is granted jurisdiction over this issue in the Constitution.

Do you believe that the Federal Government should regulate the private behaviors of law abiding citizens and their partnerships? If so please give us a Constitutional evidence that this is in the Feds jurisdiction.

Some portions of America’s economy are essential to the survival of America’s economic or social infrastructure. Sometimes these areas are best left under government control. For example national security.


Isn’t your belligerent spirit labeling any Apostolic who doesn’t agree with you politically as “Demoncrat” or “Demorat” and such a form of “political correctness”?


That’s a very stupid brainwashed statement. I know many Democrats who would never want such a thing. That’s pure propaganda and fear mongering. I fear you’re worshipping Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh without challenging their outlandish claims.



You can vote as you choose and I still love and respect you. That’s the issue and the primary difference here. Democratic Apostolics will still love and respect you for voting Republican…however you would pronounce curses upon Apostolics who would not vote like you.

Let me now elaborate on some things. Republicans are increasingly willing to support Pro-Choice candidates. Also Republicans are showing a clear softness regarding the sanctity of marriage. However, they still pretend to have the moral high ground. Also Republicans increasingly support issuing tax dollars to state programs and non-profits (just like Democrats do). Republicans even drafted measures to include faith based organizations in their socialistic government handouts. And since you’ve sworn to vote Republican…does that make you a “Reprobatican” as opposed to a “Demonrat”?

You’re dripping with self-righteousness and belching propaganda and you can’t even see it. Your politics have blinded you from true light and truth. Both parties are morally bankrupt. Remember…with what measure you judge…that my friend is the measure you must meet.

As for you and your house…you can serve the Republicans and others can serve the Democrats. As for me and my house…we shall serve the Lord. ;)

I dont have time to respond to you in depth today. Too much work. but let me say, I dont need Rush or Sean to provide me with outlandish cliams. I can come up with them all on my own. (I work for a living thus i dont actually have much time to listen to them).


on the subject of abortion, the postion of dems is as best hypocritical if you suggest that dems dont "support" abortion, they just say that government should not be in the business of it being "private behavior"

HOGWASH! to believe that, you have to believe that an unborn child is not a human being! what utter nonsense. it is absoltly FACT that the postion of EVER major national figure in the Demonrat party supports ABORTION ON DEMAND. That is code speak for abortion up to and including the 9th month!

Friend, by EVERY, i mean EVERY SINGLE national demonrat politician. not some random few liberal nut fringe cooks.


ALL OF THEM.


Peace to you, I pray God will grant you revalation!

[Aquila]

Dead men don't vote. Are you dead to the things of this world?

[Aquila]

I dont have time to respond to you in depth today. Too much work. but let me say, I dont need Rush or Sean to provide me with outlandish cliams. I can come up with them all on my own. (I work for a living thus i dont actually have much time to listen to them).


on the subject of abortion, the postion of dems is as best hypocritical if you suggest that dems dont "support" abortion, they just say that government should not be in the business of it being "private behavior"

HOGWASH! to believe that, you have to believe that an unborn child is not a human being! what utter nonsense. it is absoltly FACT that the postion of EVER major national figure in the Demonrat party supports ABORTION ON DEMAND. That is code speak for abortion up to and including the 9th month!

Friend, by EVERY, i mean EVERY SINGLE national demonrat politician. not some random few liberal nut fringe cooks.


ALL OF THEM.


Peace to you, I pray God will grant you revalation!

Now it is suggested that a "revelation" is needed to align one's self with the party of Ferd's choosing. Ferd, let me let you in on a secret. The Republicans and the Democrats are the right and left hands of the beast. You can serve one or the other...but you're still serving the beast. One party advances global government...the other global markets and banking. The two are absolutely essential for the Antichrist to rise to power. And stupid American people are slapped by the left and then by the right to beat them into submission so that the powers behind the scenes can accomplish their Satanic goals.

The war between the right and the left is a frabricated crisis to decieve the simple minded.

[Sister Alvear]

The first church took no part in elections...

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Ferd
I dont have time to respond to you in depth today. Too much work. but let me say, I dont need Rush or Sean to provide me with outlandish cliams. I can come up with them all on my own. (I work for a living thus i dont actually have much time to listen to them).

That’s wonderful Ferd, because those guys lie constantly.

n the subject of abortion, the postion of dems is as best hypocritical if you suggest that dems dont "support" abortion, they just say that government should not be in the business of it being "private behavior"

I’m sure you’re not ignorant of the matter, but your gross mischaracterization would cause one to wonder. Democrats support Roe v. Wade. The SCOTUS clearly placed abortion law as an issue to be addressed at the state level. It has always been that way.

The reference to “private behavior” was in regards to indecent relations. Less than 11% of Americans are gay. And most of them are too promiscuous to enter into a legal marriage. America’s biggest moral issues in this area are fornication, divorce, and adultery. Ronald Reagan was the one who advanced the “no fault” divorce law in the American justice system when he was Governor of California. That was a far worse blow against true marriage than the civil union issue.

HOGWASH! to believe that, you have to believe that an unborn child is not a human being! what utter nonsense. it is absoltly FACT that the postion of EVER major national figure in the Demonrat party supports ABORTION ON DEMAND. That is code speak for abortion up to and including the 9th month!

You’re clearly misunderstanding what’s being said dear brother. Abortion is a state issue. Always has been…always will be. So frankly it doesn’t matter what national Democratic or Republican figures say or claim.

Friend, by EVERY, i mean EVERY SINGLE national demonrat politician. not some random few liberal nut fringe cooks.

Let me correct you…every politician be they Republican or Democrat are cooks.

Now in closing I’m going to ask a VERY important question. Perhaps it’s the most relevant question in this discussion. Ferd, assuming the Republicans become “born again” and get serious about abortion and pass laws prohibiting it; what should be the legal ramifications if a woman gets an illegal abortion?

[Aquila]

The first church took no part in elections...

Amen.

[BrotherEastman]

Got a solution for the republicans and the democrats; SEEK JESUS!

[Ferd]

That’s wonderful Ferd, because those guys lie constantly.



I’m sure you’re not ignorant of the matter, but your gross mischaracterization would cause one to wonder. Democrats support Roe v. Wade. The SCOTUS clearly placed abortion law as an issue to be addressed at the state level. It has always been that way.

The reference to “private behavior” was in regards to indecent relations. Less than 11% of Americans are gay. And most of them are too promiscuous to enter into a legal marriage. America’s biggest moral issues in this area are fornication, divorce, and adultery. Ronald Reagan was the one who advanced the “no fault” divorce law in the American justice system when he was Governor of California. That was a far worse blow against true marriage than the civil union issue.



You’re clearly misunderstanding what’s being said dear brother. Abortion is a state issue. Always has been…always will be. So frankly it doesn’t matter what national Democratic or Republican figures say or claim.



Let me correct you…every politician be they Republican or Democrat are cooks.

Now in closing I’m going to ask a VERY important question. Perhaps it’s the most relevant question in this discussion. Ferd, assuming the Republicans become “born again” and get serious about abortion and pass laws prohibiting it; what should be the legal ramifications if a woman gets an illegal abortion?
frankly ive seen more lies from mkle more (mispelled due to utter contempt on my part), moveon.org, and the demonrat national commettee than Sean or Ruch.

and the fact remains, every single major national demonrat politician stands for Federal law/Court mandates that provide for Abortion on demand! they do not believe Abortion is a State issue.

YOU are the one mischarictorizing the position of National Leftists in America.

The Fact is Abortion is neither a Federal issue, nor a state issue and National demonrats dont want it to be. they want it to remain a federal mandate.

what I want is Abortion out of the courts. period. end of story. i want a national debate and a supreme court that says this is not a constitutional issue.

then we can hash out what needs to happen.

it really makes me laugh when someone points at the conservitives and says the word "lie" this from the party that gave us Bill Clinton. dude (or is it dudette?), you got zero moral ground to stand on.

[Esther]

Dead men don't vote. Are you dead to the things of this world?

But alive people vote. You must occupy until He comes.

[Ferd]

I hope everyone understands this is just nonsense. beyond being right, i am just being funny.

(but I am right)

[ChristopherHall]

frankly ive seen more lies from mkle more (mispelled due to utter contempt on my part), moveon.org, and the demonrat national commettee than Sean or Ruch.

Actually Moore's factcheck on Sicko checks out rather well, though it could provide better context in some places. Gupta critiqued Sicko and then later admitted that he wasn't entirely honest and exagerated problems with the film. I encourage you to see it and study it out. That's if you're open enough to look into the possiblity of learning something you assumed was wrong right off the bat. Besides Sicko though, I too am not much of a Moore fan but I have friends and family who live in Canada who strongly suggested I see it. After I saw it I was rather puzzled with the lies and micharacterizations I was hearing from the conservative side of things.

and the fact remains, every single major national demonrat politician stands for Federal law/Court mandates that provide for Abortion on demand! they do not believe Abortion is a State issue.

Not every. But I'll give you most are.

YOU are the one mischarictorizing the position of National Leftists in America.

Democrats are rather diverse. Some see it as Aquila described, others are raging Pro-Abortion nutcases. But, even the Republicans suffer the same problem.

The Fact is Abortion is neither a Federal issue, nor a state issue and National demonrats dont want it to be. they want it to remain a federal mandate.

Women are mandated to have an abortion? Wow. I didn't know that. My wife must have missed the memo.

what I want is Abortion out of the courts. period. end of story. i want a national debate and a supreme court that says this is not a constitutional issue.

then we can hash out what needs to happen.

Actually Aquila's question is quite important to consider before going down that road. It's a real simple question really. What would you suppose we do with women who procure abortions illegally if we win this social debate?

I'll tell you that I know why you're dodging the question. You don't want to be confronted with the unacceptable outcome. So instead you're siding with the Republican machine and keeping the issue alive without stated resolution. Why? Because you hope to allow your party of choice to politically capitalize off the deaths of 1.6 million human beings a year. If not...state your answer to the question. I can remember a Republican I looked up to laughing and saying, "You got to keep the issue alive baby!" He didn't care that people were dying to keep his wedge issue alive.

it really makes me laugh when someone points at the conservitives and says the word "lie" this from the party that gave us Bill Clinton. dude (or is it dudette?), you got zero moral ground to stand on.

C'mon, this is politics. It doesn't matter if they're Democrat or Republican....if their mouth is moving...they are lying.