Have you ever been mad at God?

[Rhoni]

One of the things that it took me so long to admit [why I was so long in therapy] was that I was mad at God. I was taught never to question men of authority and absolutely never to question God.

My male therapist [graduated to a male therapist as I healed] asked me almost every session if I was mad at God and I would vehemently say, "No, I am not mad at God, if it hadn't been for Him I would have died, or at least sank into extreme depression." After badgering me with this question time and again; I finally said, "You are darn right I am mad at God. He could have fixed this and He didn't."

[Mercy]

"You are darn right I am mad at God. He could have fixed this and He didn't."

Funny. I found myself saying practically the same thing. It is a hard thing to admit, especially when its something very painful to you, but people on the outside only see the "testimony". It makes it hard to find the support you need to heal emotionally.

[Rhoni]

Funny. I found myself saying practically the same thing. It is a hard thing to admit, especially when its something very painful to you, but people on the outside only see the "testimony". It makes it hard to find the support you need to heal emotionally.

Mercy,

Absolutely! I remember people praying for my physical healing during my car accident and months of hospitalization and years of recovery. While they prayed for my phsyical healing, which I never doubted God was going to do, I was praying for emotional healing and I sure didn't have any help from friends, family, church, or husband. That is why I get so angry when someone says, "Just get over it." It is never that simple.

God did give me some answers though. Did he give you any?

Blessings, Rhoni

[Ronzo]

That is why I get so angry when someone says, "Just get over it." It is never that simple.
That's for sure.

[Mercy]

Painful to admit...but I stopped asking for them. Ironically enough the "pivitol" point for me was a car accident as well. I was hurt really badly and the driver (the man I was gonna marry) was killed. When the miraculous recovery of my physical body was manifested (that you Jesus) no one thought about the emotional and mental and spiritual battle I was warring....the death of my best friend. Even now when people ask me about my scars and if its not a good day and I say I dont want to talk about it I get responses that are very crass. Its hard to try and make people understand it from both angles...I am rediculously grateful for my physical healing....cuz it is a very good testimony indeed! Just trying to maintain hope that one day I will have another awesome testimony of how my heart has been healed and my trust in God restored. That gets harder everyday...

Mercy,

Absolutely! I remember people praying for my physical healing during my car accident and months of hospitalization and years of recovery. While they prayed for my phsyical healing, which I never doubted God was going to do, I was praying for emotional healing and I sure didn't have any help from friends, family, church, or husband. That is why I get so angry when someone says, "Just get over it." It is never that simple.

God did give me some answers though. Did he give you any?

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

That's for sure.

Ronzo,

Speaking of Isaiah...today God gave me an answer to my critical thinking. It is found in Isaiah 45:9;
Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker,
to him who is a ptsherd among the
potsherds on the ground.
Does the clay say to the potter,
'What are you making?'
Does your work say,
'He has no hands'?
Woe to him who says to his father,
'What have you begotten?'
or to his mother,
'What have you brought to birth'?
This is what the Lord says-
the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker;
Concerning things to come,
do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands?
It is I who made the earth
and created manknind upon it.
My own hnads stretched out the heavens;
I marshaled their starry hosts.
I will raise up Cyrus in my righteousness;
I will make all his ways straight.
He will rebuild my city.

[Rhoni]

Painful to admit...but I stopped asking for them. Ironically enough the "pivitol" point for me was a car accident as well. I was hurt really badly and the driver (the man I was gonna marry) was killed. When the miraculous recovery of my physical body was manifested (that you Jesus) no one thought about the emotional and mental and spiritual battle I was warring....the death of my best friend. Even now when people ask me about my scars and if its not a good day and I say I dont want to talk about it I get responses that are very crass. Its hard to try and make people understand it from both angles...I am rediculously grateful for my physical healing....cuz it is a very good testimony indeed! Just trying to maintain hope that one day I will have another awesome testimony of how my heart has been healed and my trust in God restored. That gets harder everyday...

Mercy,

God is a BIG God with BROAD shoulders. He has an answer for you...but you have to be ready to heal. Many times we hold on to our pain because we enjoy it. We use it as an excuse to stay where we are when God has so much more to give us and to show us. Tell him how you 'FEEL'. Tell him why you are angry. Don't hedge or come up with nice words so that he won't get angry with you. He knows what you are saying in your heart and mind. As all the venom spews out...He will cover it with His blood and fill the empty place in your heart with so much love that it will amaze you.

This is what he used to help me, and my situation is different from yours but the feelings probably the same:
God used this opportunity to show me a bit of his sovereign nature.
He showed me where my will and another's will were at odds.
God, in his sovereignity loves his sons and daughters equally.
He will not let my will be done to the overriding of another person's will.
What he did show me is who I am and what I mean to him.

He promised to never leave me nor forsake me. This has covered my abandonment and rejection issues.
Romans 8:28 promises me that he is working all things [those both good and bad] for my good.
He called me according to his purpose:
He foreknew decisions I would make and that others would make.
He pre-destined me to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.
Hejustifies those he calls and glorifies them.

God didn't spare his son Jesus from the sufferring that His will could be accomplished in us so...
Why would God take away our sufferring to conform us to his will?

I ask you...Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or nakedness, or sword?

[Rhoni]

Mercy,

Your fiance who died; what would he tell you? There is a best friend closer than he was...Jesus also has a word for you...when you are ready to let me heal you.

Praying for you,
Rhoni

[Mercy]

Thank you. I know He has answers...just dont know how to get to them. Ready to heal. I know what you mean. I remember the time when I wasn't. I've been in ready mode for about 7 years now. I thought this year was gonna be it because I took deliberate steps in the direction of getting help, but they weren't the steps I was "supposed" to take because all the doors closed. I am fine with that. I just want Him to hurry up. :santathumb

Mercy,

God is a BIG God with BROAD shoulders. He has an answer for you...but you have to be ready to heal. Many times we hold on to our pain because we enjoy it. We use it as an excuse to stay where we are when God has so much more to give us and to show us. Tell him how you 'FEEL'. Tell him why you are angry. Don't hedge or come up with nice words so that he won't get angry with you. He knows what you are saying in your heart and mind. As all the venom spews out...He will cover it with His blood and fill the empty place in your heart with so much love that it will amaze you.

This is what he used to help me, and my situation is different from yours but the feelings probably the same:
God used this opportunity to show me a bit of his sovereign nature.
He showed me where my will and another's will were at odds.
God, in his sovereignity loves his sons and daughters equally.
He will not let my will be done to the overriding of another person's will.
What he did show me is who I am and what I mean to him.

He promised to never leave me nor forsake me. This has covered my abandonment and rejection issues.
Romans 8:28 promises me that he is working all things [those both good and bad] for my good.
He called me according to his purpose:
He foreknew decisions I would make and that others would make.
He pre-destined me to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.
Hejustifies those he calls and glorifies them.

God didn't spare his son Jesus from the sufferring that His will could be accomplished in us so...
Why would God take away our sufferring to conform us to his will?

I ask you...Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or nakedness, or sword?

[Rhoni]

Thank you. I know He has answers...just dont know how to get to them. Ready to heal. I know what you mean. I remember the time when I wasn't. I've been in ready mode for about 7 years now. I thought this year was gonna be it because I took deliberate steps in the direction of getting help, but they weren't the steps I was "supposed" to take because all the doors closed. I am fine with that. I just want Him to hurry up. :santathumb

Mercy,

Healing is a process...I know you know this...I have read your posts and you have a lot of insight. Many times we fail to see what is right before our eyes because we have a pre-conceived expectation as to what our healing, and what God will do, and it is not really what God wants or has in store for us.

I don't know if God deals with you as he does with me, but when I pray about a situation he immediately slams doors in my face. He does it because I am so stupid sometimes and if he doesn't just get in my face I will fall into a pit out of naivity, or slip into the pit because someone pushes me into it. Then again I get so tired of waiting that I demand to be put into a pit by a wrong choice that I purposely make.

I could give you an example: Never mind. I will do it privately if you want it. Those who would have my head on a platter would get too much mileage out of my transparency so I shall refrain.

Look outside your box. Trust God even if it doesn't look like you expect it to look.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Mercy]

I think about that sometimes....how would he had lived had I died and he was spared. Would he had been able to just live without all the "stuff" and grow up normal.

I know Jesus cares....and I know He is patient and merciful since I am still here, cuz he could have given up on me a loooonnnggg time ago.

Just difficult to develop a "relationship" with Him. Not as an excuse (cuz I am not one of "them") but I grew up in a very strict pentecostal atmosphere, and I was never taught how to have relationships (with any authority figure)...just to obey the rules. So its hard to view Jesus as a friend, because he is the ultimate authority, ya know? And since I know He knows all that is within me it makes it even more difficult to think we can have a real relationship. Does that make sense? Would you try hard to befriend someone that really didnt like you? (just an analogy...I like Jesus :) )

We'll see.

Mercy,

Your fiance who died; what would he tell you? There is a best friend closer than he was...Jesus also has a word for you...when you are ready to let me heal you.

Praying for you,
Rhoni

[Mercy]

Ok I responded to the other one before I saw this one. You can PM me. I think I am sweating with all this transparency myself. :)

Mercy,

Healing is a process...I know you know this...I have read your posts and you have a lot of insight. Many times we fail to see what is right before our eyes because we have a pre-conceived expectation as to what our healing, and what God will do, and it is not really what God wants or has in store for us.

I don't know if God deals with you as he does with me, but when I pray about a situation he immediately slams doors in my face. He does it because I am so stupid sometimes and if he doesn't just get in my face I will fall into a pit out of naivity, or slip into the pit because someone pushes me into it. Then again I get so tired of waiting that I demand to be put into a pit by a wrong choice that I purposely make.

I could give you an example: Never mind. I will do it privately if you want it. Those who would have my head on a platter would get too much mileage out of my transparency so I shall refrain.

Look outside your box. Trust God even if it doesn't look like you expect it to look.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Mercy,

Many of us are Recovering Ultra-conservative Apostolics.

[Mercy]

Funny.

Mercy,

Many of us are Recovering Ultra-conservative Apostolics.

[Rhoni]

;)

[nahkoe]

Um yeah. I'm a current vote. And it's stupid. But it's what it is. This isn't the first time I've been mad at God (although possibly the stupidest reason...really) and I'm sure not the last time.

One of the things that it took me so long to admit [why I was so long in therapy] was that I was mad at God. I was taught never to question men of authority and absolutely never to question God.

My male therapist [graduated to a male therapist as I healed] asked me almost every session if I was mad at God and I would vehemently say, "No, I am not mad at God, if it hadn't been for Him I would have died, or at least sank into extreme depression." After badgering me with this question time and again; I finally said, "You are darn right I am mad at God. He could have fixed this and He didn't."

[Mercy]

Its funny cuz when ever I talk about being mad at God when I have to say it out loud I say its stupid...but that never stops me from being mad. Weird huh?

Um yeah. I'm a current vote. And it's stupid. But it's what it is. This isn't the first time I've been mad at God (although possibly the stupidest reason...really) and I'm sure not the last time.

[Sister Truth Seeker]

One of the things that it took me so long to admit [why I was so long in therapy] was that I was mad at God. I was taught never to question men of authority and absolutely never to question God.

My male therapist [graduated to a male therapist as I healed] asked me almost every session if I was mad at God and I would vehemently say, "No, I am not mad at God, if it hadn't been for Him I would have died, or at least sank into extreme depression." After badgering me with this question time and again; I finally said, "You are darn right I am mad at God. He could have fixed this and He didn't." when I was a child and being abused I would pray for God to show me a sign that He was there, and to help me, but nothing changed, so I didn't believe He existed or if He did he didn't care about me!

[Sister Truth Seeker]

Mercy,

Many of us are Recovering Ultra-conservative Apostolics.
Isn't it wonderful....I thank God everyday that I was set free!

[Mercy]

Would you share how you "changed your mind" about Him being there? If you dont want to I understand. It is encouraging to hear people speak of overcoming more than Jesus paying your bills.

when I was a child and being abused I would pray for God to show me a sign that He was there, and to help me, but nothing changed, so I didn't believe He existed or if He did he didn't care about me!

[Sister Truth Seeker]

Would you share how you "changed your mind" about Him being there? If you dont want to I understand. It is encouraging to hear people speak of overcoming more than Jesus paying your bills.I did not believe until I was 50 years old, and then when I looked back over my life I could see places where I just knew God brought me through. He does not always deliver us from our circumstance, because there is a reason why we are there...now I am not saying He wanted me to be abused, but He knew what my whole life was going to be, and all I new was what was now....I can't say I understand, other than out of our pain we gain compassion for others....life is not always easy, but that is OK...faith building is what happens.

God called me and I answered finally....I can't say that any one thing changed my mind, it was more a set of circumstances...and a decision on my part to surrender to Him...

[Mercy]

....I can't say that any one thing changed my mind, it was more a set of circumstances...and a decision on my part to surrender to Him...

I can relate to that.

[nahkoe]

Its funny cuz when ever I talk about being mad at God when I have to say it out loud I say its stupid...but that never stops me from being mad. Weird huh?


Yep! It *is* a stupid reason if I look at it logically. But my emotions are what they are, and they have a purpose too. I should probably stop calling it stupid, but it just IS. At least I've learned over time to acknoweldge the emotions even if the reason for them seems...stupid. :rudolph

[Mercy]

At least I've learned over time to acknoweldge the emotions even if the reason for them seems...stupid. :rudolph

And that is how we grow. We recognize our responses and we are given our "way of escape". We can acknowledge that they (the emotions) are there,but we dont have to remain in them.

[nahkoe]

And that is how we grow. We recognize our responses and we are given our "way of escape". We can acknowledge that they (the emotions) are there,but we dont have to remain in them.

Right now I'm kind of wallowing. lol I know I'm starting to move past that though.

[Sister Truth Seeker]

Right now I'm kind of wallowing. lol I know I'm starting to move past that though.
If we deny what we feel and try to bury it...it will come back at a later time...when we go through something emotional we have to move through it you can't bypass for long....sometimes we need to wallow! Just don't get stuck in it...

[Neck]

One of the things that it took me so long to admit [why I was so long in therapy] was that I was mad at God. I was taught never to question men of authority and absolutely never to question God.

My male therapist [graduated to a male therapist as I healed] asked me almost every session if I was mad at God and I would vehemently say, "No, I am not mad at God, if it hadn't been for Him I would have died, or at least sank into extreme depression." After badgering me with this question time and again; I finally said, "You are darn right I am mad at God. He could have fixed this and He didn't."

When I found out my Dad was for sure going to die (1978)
When my son was diagnosed with a terminal illness (1993)

My son has been through hell and back.

He is still alive after a Bone Marrow Transplant in 2004.

I think in general we get mad in these situations.

Then as we go through the process we start to trust God and he shows us great things within us...

I am not saying these things come from God....

[LadyChocolate]

When I found out my Dad was for sure going to die (1978)
When my son was diagnosed with a terminal illness (1993)

My son has been through hell and back.

He is still alive after a Bone Marrow Transplant in 2004.

I think in general we get mad in these situations.

Then as we go through the process we start to trust God and he shows us great things within us...

I am not saying these things come from God....


I understand what it's like to be in that place where you ask God "why?" . I still remember the day the doctor told me my child I was carrying only had 5% chance of living... I remember carrying this child, knowing she would not have a chance at all unless God intervened. I carried her, growing inside of me, but I could not fix what was wrong... I held a lifeless baby girl in my arms... Strangely, I knew God was in control and I still trusted him... I didn't like it. I wanted it to change. I wanted my baby girl back... But God knew what was best and I have a whole lot of compassion for others who've lost someone they love... I am a more caring person...

I heard a minister say once, "it's okay to ask God why..... just don't demand an answer"

[Neck]

I understand what it's like to be in that place where you ask God "why?" . I still remember the day the doctor told me my child I was carrying only had 5% chance of living... I remember carrying this child, knowing she would not have a chance at all unless God intervened. I carried her, growing inside of me, but I could not fix what was wrong... I held a lifeless baby girl in my arms... Strangely, I knew God was in control and I still trusted him... I didn't like it. I wanted it to change. I wanted my baby girl back... But God knew what was best and I have a whole lot of compassion for others who've lost someone they love... I am a more caring person...

I heard a minister say once, "it's okay to ask God why..... just don't demand an answer"

That is the blessing of a trial. You have a heart to reach out to others when they face tough and lonely times.

Nathan

[Sister Truth Seeker]

I understand what it's like to be in that place where you ask God "why?" . I still remember the day the doctor told me my child I was carrying only had 5% chance of living... I remember carrying this child, knowing she would not have a chance at all unless God intervened. I carried her, growing inside of me, but I could not fix what was wrong... I held a lifeless baby girl in my arms... Strangely, I knew God was in control and I still trusted him... I didn't like it. I wanted it to change. I wanted my baby girl back... But God knew what was best and I have a whole lot of compassion for others who've lost someone they love... I am a more caring person...

I heard a minister say once, "it's okay to ask God why..... just don't demand an answer"9Sis this is pain only a mother can know....my heart is with you...Lord bless you.

[LadyChocolate]

thank you! it's been a while so the pain is not like it once was... Time heals, although scars remain. But thru this, God was able to use me to help a friend go thru the very same situation. The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh... blessed be the name of the Lord!

[Rhoni]

That is the blessing of a trial. You have a heart to reach out to others when they face tough and lonely times.

Nathan

Nathan,

Thank-you for Bro. & Sis. Trapani's address. I haven't talked to them in a couple years. Bro. Trapani is a counselor, and good one. They have been through so much and he has had many opportunities to share and help with healing of those who have been through similar situations.

So, your sister married one of the Trapani boys huh? My sister dated one or both of their sons that died. She named her daughter after Julia.

Blessings, Rhoni:star

[Sister Alvear]

I guess we have all been in circumstances we wanted to scream at God and ask him why...why the pain...the loneliness...why be abandoned...why do good for others and them stab you...why is my baby sick..Why did the person I loved die...why, why why...
But as time passes many of the why´s we understand BUT not all of them...maybe we will have one long session in heaven as HE explains all the whys to us...
I have been numb with pain...horror stricken...and felt I really could tell no one...who would understand? Who would really care?
You know when you are an independent missionary...no boards..to fundraisers, no sheaves for Christ..no this or that...and you open your cabinet and no food for your babies...no gas for the car...a line of natives at your door KNOWING you have thousands of dollars...they are sure of that...all your explaining they would never understand...frustrating to say the least…
You remember the dozens of places you go and they say, Just let us know if you have a need...you try it but it doesn´t work...you feel like a little green man from mars...
I must confess...if my confessions help you younger soldiers...I have sat down and cried many a time...wondering just where HE that called really was...
No, you never outgrow those feeling...you do learn they are not forever but they visit every one of us...
We all struggle not to become bitter over things that come our way...no one is above struggles...no one has it all together...all the time.

I say sweet things to my kids and family but when my refrigerator died…I laughed with my daughter and daughter in laws…but I went in my bedroom and cried…(they don´t know it) Stupid thing to do I guess…but Brother Alvear is away and traveled to try to help pay bills. Before he gets out of Brazil we wreck the church van, the radiator bursts in the car, the refrigerator goes out , 2 pastors call with desperate needs…a church brother needs 150 dollars for some kind of document or he will lose his drivers license and needs it NOW…and the missionary is supposed to help…and on and on..
Your needs seem so big then you visit the states and you see so much wasted and you find yourself thinking wish I just had what they don´t want or don´t use…Yes dear ones…fellow travelers…the road is not always easy.
Why did my grandbaby have to suffer 2 heart operations and when you try to raise money for things people laugh and say…OH, that just a missionary´s way of getting our money…
People say deep cutting remarks and believe me they hurt! Life gives us curve balls and lemons…how we deal with them will depend on many factors. One of the scriptures I always think of is HE is faithful even if we are unfaithful…I guess maybe our unbelief our attitudes are often ungrateful for all His mercies that He renews everyday.

But in all our mad spells and pouting HE remembers we are flesh...

[Mercy]

Thank you... your post did more than you'll know.

I guess we have all been in circumstances we wanted to scream at God and ask him why...why the pain...the loneliness...why be abandoned...why do good for others and them stab you...why is my baby sick..Why did the person I loved die...why, why why...
But as time passes many of the why´s we understand BUT not all of them...maybe we will have one long session in heaven as HE explains all the whys to us...
I have been numb with pain...horror stricken...and felt I really could tell no one...who would understand? Who would really care?
You know when you are an independent missionary...no boards..to fundraisers, no sheaves for Christ..no this or that...and you open your cabinet and no food for your babies...no gas for the car...a line of natives at your door KNOWING you have thousands of dollars...they are sure of that...all your explaining they would never understand...frustrating to say the least…
You remember the dozens of places you go and they say, Just let us know if you have a need...you try it but it doesn´t work...you feel like a little green man from mars...
I must confess...if my confessions help you younger soldiers...I have sat down and cried many a time...wondering just where HE that called really was...
No, you never outgrow those feeling...you do learn they are not forever but they visit every one of us...
We all struggle not to become bitter over things that come our way...no one is above struggles...no one has it all together...all the time.

I say sweet things to my kids and family but when my refrigerator died…I laughed with my daughter and daughter in laws…but I went in my bedroom and cried…(they don´t know it) Stupid thing to do I guess…but Brother Alvear is away and traveled to try to help pay bills. Before he gets out of Brazil we wreck the church van, the radiator bursts in the car, the refrigerator goes out , 2 pastors call with desperate needs…a church brother needs 150 dollars for some kind of document or he will lose his drivers license and needs it NOW…and the missionary is supposed to help…and on and on..
Your needs seem so big then you visit the states and you see so much wasted and you find yourself thinking wish I just had what they don´t want or don´t use…Yes dear ones…fellow travelers…the road is not always easy.
Why did my grandbaby have to suffer 2 heart operations and when you try to raise money for things people laugh and say…OH, that just a missionary´s way of getting our money…
People say deep cutting remarks and believe me they hurt! Life gives us curve balls and lemons…how we deal with them will depend on many factors. One of the scriptures I always think of is HE is faithful even if we are unfaithful…I guess maybe our unbelief our attitudes are often ungrateful for all His mercies that He renews everyday.

But in all our mad spells and pouting HE remembers we are flesh...

[Sister Alvear]

you are so welcome...

[Rhoni]

thank you! it's been a while so the pain is not like it once was... Time heals, although scars remain. But thru this, God was able to use me to help a friend go thru the very same situation. The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh... blessed be the name of the Lord!


Lady Chocolate,

Scars are just reminders of where our healing has taken place. I thank God for all my scars.
:star

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Sis Alvear

No, you never outgrow those feeling...you do learn they are not forever but they visit every one of us...
We all struggle not to become bitter over things that come our way...no one is above struggles...no one has it all together...all the time.



The one prayer that I have prayed for almost 2 decades now is that God would help me to stay soft and pliable. I don't want to be bitter and hard...it isn't pretty on anyone.

You are so right...no one has it all together ALL the time. I'm shooting for 80% though...I just hate being a less than "B" student :)

Love & Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

when I was a child and being abused I would pray for God to show me a sign that He was there, and to help me, but nothing changed, so I didn't believe He existed or if He did he didn't care about me!

Sister Truthseeker,

You have hit the nail on the head...we expect things to change in order to 'feel' God has done something for us. BUT, the fact is he was there everytime you were abused and holding you up through it. He spared your life for a purpose and what the devil meant to destroy you...is what gives you strength for today.

When I pray, I come into his gates[presence] with Thanksgiving. I thank him for all the times he was there for me when things were good and when they were not so good. Then I come into his presence with praise and thank him for the train of his victories which fills my life. It is then that I can worship Him for who he is;
Jehoveh Jireh - my provider
Jehoveh Nissi-my banner of victory
Jehoveh Rophe - my healer
Jehoveh Shalom-my peace

The shield of faith I carry is large and gets larger and more strong with every battle. :star

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

I have been talking to a co-worker about Anger, and bitterness. Bitterness is Anger not worked out that gets rotten and destroys from the inside out. Since to our finite mind, God is not able to be defined, it is easier to be Angry with God and unchecked, Bitterness can lead to physical illness.

[Rhoni]

I have been talking to a co-worker about Anger, and bitterness. Bitterness is Anger not worked out that gets rotten and destroys from the inside out. Since to our finite mind, God is not able to be defined, it is easier to be Angry with God and unchecked, Bitterness can lead to physical illness.

BOOMM,

Your statement about anger & bitterness reminds me of the analogy of something I saw when working in a Sub-acute nursing facility. Anger & bitterness are like; a bed sore that heals on the outside but MRSA/infection is festering underneath the skin and spreading into all the organs and systems of the body. The only way to get rid of the infection is to take IV heavy-duty antibiotics, and lance open the sore, dig the puss and infection out and stuff it with gauze. Daily the gause has to be pulled out with all the dried puss stuck to it and it hurts when it is pulled out of the wound. Doing this daily for a period of time cleans up the infection and the healing begins from the inside with new skin and tissue. This way, when the sore heals this time...a faint scar is the only reminder of the pain and infection that was once there.

Many times God has to open up the old wounds, burn out the dross/sin/weights, and pour in the gauze of his word while pouring the anointing oil into our veins to preserve our life. It is a painful process but the healing is miraculous.:bells

Blessings, Rhoni

[Kings Kid]

This was many years ago but right after my Greatfather Merritt died I became angry with God.It took me awhile to get through it but I got through it with his help.

[RevDWW]

There have been three different instances where I was mad at God. We discussed my attitude (loudly) and what God was doing and it turned out He was right and I was wrong. Go figure........He simply reminded me of what He asked Job..."Where were you.......?"

[Rhoni]

I just want to thank all of those who have been transparent enough to post the times you were angry with God. It is good to see how our 'feelings' about things that happen to us change over time and through seeing God's hand in things as we look back, giving us hope when we look to our future, and present help/strength in our todays.

In God's Grip, Rhoni

[Mrs. LPW]

Wow, thank you for posting this. You know I've been mad at God many times and sometimes He says... "Trust me I love you" and some times he says... " who do you think you are?"

Thank God that he never throws me away.

Ronzo,

Speaking of Isaiah...today God gave me an answer to my critical thinking. It is found in Isaiah 45:9;
Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker,
to him who is a ptsherd among the
potsherds on the ground.
Does the clay say to the potter,
'What are you making?'
Does your work say,
'He has no hands'?
Woe to him who says to his father,
'What have you begotten?'
or to his mother,
'What have you brought to birth'?
This is what the Lord says-
the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker;
Concerning things to come,
do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands?
It is I who made the earth
and created manknind upon it.
My own hnads stretched out the heavens;
I marshaled their starry hosts.
I will raise up Cyrus in my righteousness;
I will make all his ways straight.
He will rebuild my city.

[RevDWW]

There have been three different instances where I was mad at God. We discussed my attitude (loudly) and what God was doing and it turned out He was right and I was wrong. Go figure........He simply reminded me of what He asked Job..."Where were you.......?"

One had to do with a time (a year can seem a life time) of testing regarding my ministry.

One was concerning a bad/painful physical injury my son suffered.

One had to do with the death of my much loved older brother in the Lord and mentor, from the effects of radiation therapy for cancer.


In every one the Lord showed Himself loving, gracious, and merciful.

[Rhoni]

One had to do with a time (a year can seem a life time) of testing regarding my ministry.

I can relate to this one. Transition time in ministry or between ministries can be frustrating as well as feeling alone, abandoned, and alienated from God or purpose. Sometimes the alone time is necessary for us to get ourselves in the place where God can use and restore us.

One was concerning a bad/painful physical injury my son suffered.

It is so much easier to suffer yourself than to see loved ones suffer, but being there and trusting God makes all the difference.

One had to do with the death of my much loved older brother in the Lord and mentor, from the effects of radiation therapy for cancer.

God always gets blamed for the death of our loved ones, but sin brought death into the world...Christ brings eternal life and a hope of a life, after mortal death, which never ends. Thank-you, Jesus.


In every one the Lord showed Himself loving, gracious, and merciful.

Thank God for Jesus!
:horn

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Wow, thank you for posting this. You know I've been mad at God many times and sometimes He says... "Trust me I love you" and some times he says... " who do you think you are?"

Thank God that he never throws me away.

Mrs. LPW,

There are times, when we are soft or broken in which God has to wrap us in his loving arms and whisper words of comfort and love into our hearts. He reminds us that he loved us so much that he died, loves us so much that he disciplines, and loves us so much that he forgives and restores...he always loves us.

Then there are times when we are so narcisstic that we think we know better than God about how to handle our situation in which he has to get into our face and remind us who he is and who we are not.

Of course he doesn't throw us away...we are his children and he takes pleasure in meeting our needs, rescuing us from others or ourselves, and putting us in a place where he can brag on us.:star

Don't you just love Father God:santathumb

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

I was one of the two people who is currently angry at God. I am so angry about numerous things. I don't necessarily blame God but since life is so short and there is so much to do and so many relationships to establish and lost opportunities, closed doors, and cement walls...I ask myself..."What is the use of it all?" I am running on empty and don't care about too many things. I am on auto-pilot...hoping I don't run out of gas before the next mountain.

Numb,
Rhoni

[Dora]

Painful to admit...but I stopped asking for them. Ironically enough the "pivitol" point for me was a car accident as well. I was hurt really badly and the driver (the man I was gonna marry) was killed. When the miraculous recovery of my physical body was manifested (that you Jesus) no one thought about the emotional and mental and spiritual battle I was warring....the death of my best friend. Even now when people ask me about my scars and if its not a good day and I say I dont want to talk about it I get responses that are very crass. Its hard to try and make people understand it from both angles...I am rediculously grateful for my physical healing....cuz it is a very good testimony indeed! Just trying to maintain hope that one day I will have another awesome testimony of how my heart has been healed and my trust in God restored. That gets harder everyday...

SCARS by Dora J. Hammer

Scars, here’s a place where I fell off my bike
Scars, here I cut myself with a knife
Scars, here’s a place where I once got burned
Now it’s there to show a lesson I’ve learned

Scars, places where skin has been marred
Scars, evidences now calloused and hard
Scars, marks where healing has taken place
And they’re reminders that time won’t erase…

I am thankful for these scars
I am thankful for these scars
Scars on the surface and scars on the heart
Where I once was broken, there’s a new place to start
I am thankful for these scars
So grateful for each mark
They’ve made me stronger today
So I won’t wish them away
I am thankful for these scars

Scars, lost a friend and oh how I cried
Scars, it tore me to pieces when grandpa died
Scars, there were times I almost fell apart
And each time has left its mark on my heart

Scars, for me Jesus was pierced in his side
Scars, just for me he was scorned and denied
Scars, Jesus’ hands still bear the marks from the nails
Just to show me that his love never fails

I am thankful for His scars
I am thankful for His scars
Scars on the surface and scars on the heart
Because He was broken, there’s a new place to start
I am thankful for His scars
So grateful for each mark
They’ve made me stronger today
How can I wish them away
I am thankful for His scars

His scars have made me stronger today
How can I wish them away
Oh Lord, I’m thankful for Your scars.

[Rhoni]

Dora,

Absolutely fabulous and well written.

Thank-you,
Rhoni

[Sister Alvear]

yes, thanks Dora.

[Bro-Larry]

I believe the source of these "mad-at-God" feelings is the doctrine that "God is in control of everything". This doctrine so pervasive throughout the entire Christian monolyth, that when a person hears it over and over, all his life, he will begin to absorb this philosophy by osmosis, often without scriptural examination.

Other "cop out" sayings also express this doctrine, such as: "everything happens for a reason"; "God took my child or mother or friend"; and "...all things work together for good". You can hear these used at almost every funeral. They are almost always taken out of context, misused or misunderstood. Some are simply false.

If you believe that God is in control of everything, it's the natural thing to get mad at God. When bad things happen to good people, God does in fact, often get the blame. Job is an example of this. When bad things began to happen to him he thought God did it. He said, "The LORD giveth and the LORD taketh away", when in fact the devil was the one taking away. Of course Job had an excellent spirit, which allowed him not to get bitter at God, even though he thought God was the culprit. He said, " Tho He slay me, yet will I trust Him".

What do I offer then, instead of the above described doctrine?

God is not in control of everything.

The Bible clearly teaches that God gave mankind dominion over the whole earth. He gave up control of all the earth to mankind. Mankind then by foolishly obeying what the devil said to do, he became his servant.(Ro 6:16) (Jesus knew the truth of Romans 6:16, thus He would not do anything the devil suggested during His forty days of temptation.) The devil then ran roughshod over mankind all the way down through history, up until the time that Jesus came and recovered for mankind, the authority that Adam had given up. Job had to just tough-it-out against the devil, because he had no authority to resist the him, at that time. We now have authority over the devil, we do not have to do anything he suggests.

The fact that mankind has authority, is precisely why God had to make Himself a man. God became a man in order to exercise authority again, in the earth. Throughout all the ages of man's history, both God and the devil have had to work with a person "born of woman" in order to do anything in the earth. The Bible is full of examples: Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Jesus. God always had a man to cooperate with Him in whatever He wanted to do. Some men chose to cooperate with the devil, instead of God. It is still that way today.

When bad things happen to us, it's always because of something we have said or done, or else the devil is doing it and we didn't see it coming in time to stop it. If you think back carefully, you will almost always see that down deep inside your spirit, God was trying to warn you of what was coming.

God is never to blame, so there is no reason to get mad at God.

[Rhoni]

Big-Larry,

That is indeed something to think about. Thanks for a fresh perspective. See you in service tomorrow.

Blessings, Rhoni

[GodsBabyGirl]

I remember over ten years ago when I got the news my younger cousin Courtney was murdered by her husband. I cried to God and asked Him why. HE later showed me the hand of the enemy in all this....and I prayed for His vengeance for her life.

And more recently, this past year, when not one but two pastors/preachers hurt me profoundly and tried to discredit my ministry.

It cut so deeply. But I don't recall being outright mad at God, but His Bride, the church.

I asked Him how can he support and condone such mess. I wanted no part in the foolishness, I told God. Ministry? You can have it, God. Folks are gonna do what they want anyhow. So why should I sacrifice my family, my time, energy and go thru warfare?

And folks still gonna be crazy and do what they want?

You let these so called preachers (men preachers) get away with murder and we have to come behind them and pick up the pieces.

Oh trust me, I was MAD!

God has been doing a work in me, and I thank God for it. Because it was turning into a root of bitterness.

He isn't done. Not by a long shot.

But I am getting to the place where I can at least go to church and not just be present or there for the kids.

I am there b/c I want to hear from God. And if I gotta filter thru flesh and religion to hear Him, He will allow Himself to get to me....

Just keep praying for me

Love ya

[Rhoni]

I remember over ten years ago when I got the news my younger cousin Courtney was murdered by her husband. I cried to God and asked Him why. HE later showed me the hand of the enemy in all this....and I prayed for His vengeance for her life.

And more recently, this past year, when not one but two pastors/preachers hurt me profoundly and tried to discredit my ministry.

It cut so deeply. But I don't recall being outright mad at God, but His Bride, the church.

I asked Him how can he support and condone such mess. I wanted no part in the foolishness, I told God. Ministry? You can have it, God. Folks are gonna do what they want anyhow. So why should I sacrifice my family, my time, energy and go thru warfare?

And folks still gonna be crazy and do what they want?

You let these so called preachers (men preachers) get away with murder and we have to come behind them and pick up the pieces.

Oh trust me, I was MAD!

God has been doing a work in me, and I thank God for it. Because it was turning into a root of bitterness.

He isn't done. Not by a long shot.

But I am getting to the place where I can at least go to church and not just be present or there for the kids.

I am there b/c I want to hear from God. And if I gotta filter thru flesh and religion to hear Him, He will allow Himself to get to me....

Just keep praying for me

Love ya


Dear Sis,

:star~ Praying for you...for many of us on this forum. Many times we have to leave "Christian City" to find the City of God.

Blessings, Rhoni

[GodsBabyGirl]

It cut so deeply. But I don't recall being outright mad at God, but His Bride, the church.

You let these so called preachers (men preachers) get away with murder and we have to come behind them and pick up the pieces.

Oh trust me, I was MAD!



I just wanna add that I am not attending either one of these 'churches.'

God allowed one of them to close down and the other God showed me a terrible fate to come upon them.

God have mercy upon them all!

I am at a wonderful church with a great pastor and church family. God knows where to let the healing began...

Love ya Rhoni

I need 2 b in that city!

[Felicity]

I don't know if I've ever been mad AT God. I've been mad and disappointed that things didn't turn our or weren't going as I hoped or wished. And I've wondered why things turned out the way they did in spite of my hoping and praying and believing they wouldn't.

In spite of setbacks, disappointment and anger with people and situations, knowing God and knowing Him in regard to His attributes I knew there was no point in getting mad at Him. He does all things well. His knowledge is perfect. His love for me is perfect and if we're truly His children then there will be times of chastisement and difficulty.

He went through the pain of rejection and crucifixion. Why should we not think we'll have times like that in our own lives.

[Sister Alvear]

This is a very interesting thread...wenona, my dear it is good to see you posting.

[GodsBabyGirl]

This is a very interesting thread...wenona, my dear it is good to see you posting.

God Bless you, Mother Alvear....

[Rhoni]

I don't know if I've ever been mad AT God. I've been mad and disappointed that things didn't turn our or weren't going as I hoped or wished. And I've wondered why things turned out the way they did in spite of my hoping and praying and believing they wouldn't.

In spite of setbacks, disappointment and anger with people and situations, knowing God and knowing Him in regard to His attributes I knew there was no point in getting mad at Him. He does all things well. His knowledge is perfect. His love for me is perfect and if we're truly His children then there will be times of chastisement and difficulty.

He went through the pain of rejection and crucifixion. Why should we not think we'll have times like that in our own lives.

Felicity,

This is a good post. Being 'mad' at God is not rational but many of our 'feelings' are not rational. It is good that you can take personal responsibility for your behaviors and feelings instead of blaming God. I, however, am not always rational.

I do believe that the scripture bears out that we will be identified with him through our suffering. Some of our suffering is from our innocence and falling into a pit by accident, and some of our suffering is because we chose a path that we knew would land us straight in a pit, and then again...sometimes others put us in a pit thinking they are helping us or God out:rudolph

However we fall into the pit of suffering...this thread is about how the church body can promote healing instead of causing more suffering and alienation. The church needs to do what God called it to do...This is what we are called to do:

Isaiah 61:1: The spirit of the sovereign Lord is on me, because the Lord has anointed me to preach the good news to the poor; He has sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim freedom to the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor and the day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all who mourn, and provide for those who grieve in Zion---To bestow on them a crown of beauty instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, and a garment of praise instead a spirit of despair.

I tend to agree with what Big Larry has stated about how we are conditioned from youth [being raised in a UPCI Apostolic church] to not question God, nor do we have the right to get angry. This is like telling our children that they should do everything we say without asking why or getting angry when things don't go our way.

God is a big God and he can take and answer our questioning. Doesn't mean we will like what we hear, as often we don't like what our parent's tell us, but God can and does speak to us.

For those of us who don't like our circumstances and want different or better than we have or are getting...well, sometimes we just can't help getting angry, pouting, or feeling sorry for ourselves.

Regardless of how or why we got divorced, whether we were the saint or the sinner int he matter, whether it appears to be a black or white issue...the church is called to heal and and nurture the broken for whatever reason. Judgement and rejection, abandonment, and alienation only re-victimizes the already hurting person.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

He's My Friend,

Thank-you for sharing your testimony with us. It reminds me of a time in my life that the facade was there, someone asked me how I was and I always said,
"fine"...it was ingrained in me to do so. Example:

I was divorced, living in a 2 bedroom apartment with my two children, and had invited the Pastor and his wife over for dinner.
*The morning of the day the dinner was to take place, I got a call from Memphis that my father had died.
*Since it was my ex-husband's weekend with the children and he was not allowing the children to go with me, I had been on the phone with my attorney getting a court order.
*I had put the roast in the oven and setting the table with my china and after the court order came through called my friend Vickie to go to my ex-husband's house to pick up the children for me...
*I got a shower, put on my happy face, and answered the door when the Pastor and his wife came. The asked me how I was doing. I said, "Fine".
*We ate a delicious meal and made small talk and when the Pastor and his wife got up to leave, the Pastor said, "I just feel like something is wrong and I need to pray for you right now." I told him about my Father dying, and my kids being at their Dad's and having to get a court order to take the kids to the funeral, ect. They both looked at me like I had fallen out of a tree. They said, "Why didn't you call and cancel this dinner".
*I never thought to do this. I was on autopilot and years of being in ministry and I just put on my happy face and sucked it up.

Through the years following I learned that it is all right to feel appropriate emotions for different situations in your life: happy, sad, frustrated, angry, worried, ect.


I said all that to say; In times past we were taught to put on a face, every Christian is supposed to he "happy" all the time. If we aren't happy all the time we bring a reproach on the church, or God. This is not so. Do you know how crazy people think you are when you have a father who dies, a vengefull ex, and worries out to whazzoo...and you say you are "FINE".

Just something to think about.

Blessings, Rhoni

[simplyme]

I have tried to recall a time, that I may have been angry with God, but nothing comes to mind.

That does not make me more spiritual, or less spiritual.

We are all human, and we handle situations differently.

I can recall times that I have been weary with people, and yes, angry.

I have gone through pain, (as everyone here) hurt, conflict, and it usually involved someone I trusted and loved.

When I felt "let down" and betrayed, I drew comfort from God, because I knew that He understood, that He indeed walked down that road, and suffered much greater than I.

I will be honest, and attempt to be somewhat "open", without revealing too much personal information.

I once suffered a horrible tragedy, one that I believe (for me anyway) that was worse than death.
At the time, I felt like a "walking dead person".

I felt as if I would never be in control of my life again.
I felt as if I would never be happy again.

I really wanted to die, in the dark months that followed.

I really put on a "happy" face, but I told God I was dying inside.

"Life" happened, and yes, a very dark tragedy came, but..................
when I thought I would never be the same again, and never find true peace,
God moved in such a mighty way in my life.

Only God could restore my life.
Only God knew what the "real" me was going through, that I would not let anyone see.
There was only a few people that knew what I had been through, and I'm sure they thought I was handling everything well...........Oh how wrong they were.

I very seldom think on this past tragedy.

When God began to heal me, it was as if He picked this horrible "thing"
up, and carried it so far away that my memory began to grow dim.

I do not find fault, or sit in judgement of anyone that may feel differently on this subject.

I do think it is a "good thing" to discuss.

God always loves us, always, always......

AMEN AMEN!Great post!
In revealing a bit of your struggle it helps others to know that they are NOT alone and that there IS LIGHT at the end of the tunnel, so to speak.
What you speak of (sorta) is similar to what I have been through {even more than once} and am even currently GOING through, and still I KNOW that only GOD can make that crucial difference, how could I ever be mad at Him who holds my every breath, my life, in His great love, majesty, sovreignty and so much more? The clay can not tell the potter how to mold ones life, we just take it all as a GIFT.

[simplyme]

He's My Friend,

Thank-you for sharing your testimony with us. It reminds me of a time in my life that the facade was there, someone asked me how I was and I always said,
"fine"...it was ingrained in me to do so. Example:

I was divorced, living in a 2 bedroom apartment with my two children, and had invited the Pastor and his wife over for dinner.
*The morning of the day the dinner was to take place, I got a call from Memphis that my father had died.
*Since it was my ex-husband's weekend with the children and he was not allowing the children to go with me, I had been on the phone with my attorney getting a court order.
*I had put the roast in the oven and setting the table with my china and after the court order came through called my friend Vickie to go to my ex-husband's house to pick up the children for me...
*I got a shower, put on my happy face, and answered the door when the Pastor and his wife came. The asked me how I was doing. I said, "Fine".
*We ate a delicious meal and made small talk and when the Pastor and his wife got up to leave, the Pastor said, "I just feel like something is wrong and I need to pray for you right now." I told him about my Father dying, and my kids being at their Dad's and having to get a court order to take the kids to the funeral, ect. They both looked at me like I had fallen out of a tree. They said, "Why didn't you call and cancel this dinner".
*I never thought to do this. I was on autopilot and years of being in ministry and I just put on my happy face and sucked it up.

Through the years following I learned that it is all right to feel appropriate emotions for different situations in your life: happy, sad, frustrated, angry, worried, ect.


I said all that to say; In times past we were taught to put on a face, every Christian is supposed to he "happy" all the time. If we aren't happy all the time we bring a reproach on the church, or God. This is not so. Do you know how crazy people think you are when you have a father who dies, a vengefull ex, and worries out to whazzoo...and you say you are "FINE".

Just something to think about.

Blessings, Rhoni

Just read this after posting the above.
This scenario is quite amazing, that you could actually DO this., carry on like 'normal'., I certainly would've acted opposite.
For some reason I have never, [only when I was younger up to teen years], been one that is able to hide my emotions, and some people do think that that is a bad thing. Wow, no way this emotional "me" could fit into some circle of fellowship that would expect me to put on a HappyFace in the midst of trouble.
BUT, for GOD? I can try., IF that is what He expects, all I can do is ask Him for the strength to show some restraint.
Only He can bring that kind of peace that passeth all understanding DOWN UPON me., to the degree that I have felt before, and its definitely a supernatural thing.

[Rhoni]

Just read this after posting the above.
This scenario is quite amazing, that you could actually DO this., carry on like 'normal'., I certainly would've acted opposite.
For some reason I have never, [only when I was younger up to teen years], been one that is able to hide my emotions, and some people do think that that is a bad thing. Wow, no way this emotional "me" could fit into some circle of fellowship that would expect me to put on a HappyFace in the midst of trouble.
BUT, for GOD? I can try., IF that is what He expects, all I can do is ask Him for the strength to show some restraint.
Only He can bring that kind of peace that passeth all understanding DOWN UPON me., to the degree that I have felt before, and its definitely a supernatural thing.

Simplyme,

To be honest with you...there was a 10 year or more period in my life that I was totally disconnected to my feelings. This is not normal, but the only way I could survive at that time.

When I started defrosting I became too emotional and would write letters just spilling out all my emotions and actually sending them. As a therapist I have learned not to send them but to burn them or tear them up as I give them to God.

Many on this forum think I am too emotional even yet, but in all fairness to myself...if I didn't 'feel' so much I would get frost-bitten again and implode upon myself. I am learning how to appropriately express my emotions.

My upbringing did not prepare me for dealing with emotions. God does not expect us to keep everything inside but to honestly and discreetly monitor our behaviors.

I was not a hero for being able to function under duress, but was unhealthy and emotionally detached for survival.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Very true.

My "happy face" in the darkest time in my life was for those that loved me.

I was not married then, (did not even know my husband then) but my good friends and family, were my concern.

I did not want them to know how bad things were getting.
I did not want them to worry.

I had always been the strong one.

I just did not want to worry my mom, my sister, and a few very close friends that knew about this situation.

In my case, no one could help me, the pain became so great, that horror of the situaion was about to overtake me.

It seemed as if I could not "shake" the problem.

Guess what ?

I could not....but God began to do something for me.......(without going into details)....He gave me my life back again.

He restored my mind and my life, and made me whole again.

God saved my life !

I could not feel anger toward the One that gave me life, that saved my life, that cared so much for me.:horn

He's My Friend,

Sounds like God gave you the strength to get through trouble that nobody would understand except for those who have went through similar situations.

God is so good to all of us for restoring what the devil takes from us. Just like children who get mad at their parents for protecting them from potentially harmful situations, sometimes others get mad at God because they don't understand what he is doing...it has been that way for me.

I throw my little temper tantrum with God and then I ask him to protect me from myself.:christmoose He is gracious enough to do just that.

Merry Christmas Jesus. I don't understand why you would leave heaven to come and be one of us, and feel what we feel, but I am so glad you did. I think I trust you more because I know you know.

Blessings, Rhoni

[nahkoe]

I said all that to say; In times past we were taught to put on a face, every Christian is supposed to he "happy" all the time. If we aren't happy all the time we bring a reproach on the church, or God. This is not so. Do you know how crazy people think you are when you have a father who dies, a vengefull ex, and worries out to whazzoo...and you say you are "FINE".

Just something to think about.

Blessings, Rhoni

This is the first thing I reclaimed. Do you know what sort of looks people give you when you don't say "fine"? I don't care! I'm not fine, I'm not going to say I'm fine, the day I say I'm fine you will know I'm really fine, the day I say fantastic, you can rejoice with me. But I won't say I'm fine, I won't lie, when I'm really not.

I used to do the sort of thing you did at that dinner. I did that my entire childhood. The option to say things weren't fine didn't exist, and they were never fine. There was always something brewing or just happened or setting up to happen. But you put on the happy face and did it anyhow. Maybe my reclaiming the right to answer honestly, or even claiming it at all, was a little bit of rebellion against the way I was raised. I spent a good part of my marriage playing that part too. "It's all fine, here have another cookie." When everything fell apart, I finally had permission to say it's not fine. No one believed it was when I was sitting with a brand new baby, 3 older kids, struggling with post partum depression AND a divorce the way mine happened. My friends encouraged me to say it how it was, they'd prod until I answered honestly, and they made it safe to admit it wasn't all ok.

[Rhoni]

This is the first thing I reclaimed. Do you know what sort of looks people give you when you don't say "fine"? I don't care! I'm not fine, I'm not going to say I'm fine, the day I say I'm fine you will know I'm really fine, the day I say fantastic, you can rejoice with me. But I won't say I'm fine, I won't lie, when I'm really not.

I used to do the sort of thing you did at that dinner. I did that my entire childhood. The option to say things weren't fine didn't exist, and they were never fine. There was always something brewing or just happened or setting up to happen. But you put on the happy face and did it anyhow. Maybe my reclaiming the right to answer honestly, or even claiming it at all, was a little bit of rebellion against the way I was raised. I spent a good part of my marriage playing that part too. "It's all fine, here have another cookie." When everything fell apart, I finally had permission to say it's not fine. No one believed it was when I was sitting with a brand new baby, 3 older kids, struggling with post partum depression AND a divorce the way mine happened. My friends encouraged me to say it how it was, they'd prod until I answered honestly, and they made it safe to admit it wasn't all ok.

Awesome testimony Nahkoe! I like what you said..."reclaiming" the right to say "NO". When I first came back into the UPCI church approx. 4 years ago; one of the first things the Church Administrator asked me to do was to teach Children's Church. I looked at her and said, "No, this was not my area of giftedness". She continued like she hadn't heard me and said, "I know you can do it." I looked her square in the eye and said, "No, I will not do that. I teach 18 years and up, and I counsel people...I prefer to stay useful in the places God has gifted me in." I promise she turned white and got really flustered.

So many churches model the retail slogan of we hire you to work when, where, and how we tell you or you don't work for us. I refuse to come back under that retail mentality. God has enough people of diverse skills that I don't have to do everything, not that I think I am better than a person in another position but I have come up through the ranks and done all that and it brought me nothing but heartache and pain. I only work within a church in the areas of my passion. Thank God for Rick Warren, and more progressive church leadership.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Just thought I might want to revisit this thread. Today is September 8, 2008. I don't know that I have ever felt more angry at God than I do now. No, I don't think I am blaspheming...but enough is enough.

You can give me all the slogans, euphemisms, and Biblical rhetoric...but the bottom line...I am angry with God.

The Bible tells us that...Hope deferred makes the heart sick. Now I could list the things that I am angry about and many could empathize, some could sympathize, but many would think I am just a narcissistic spoiled brat...and I may be, but that does not negate the fact I am ANGRY with God:

So, if you want someone or something to pray about...pray about this.

Blessings, Rhoni

[jezebelslayer]

Rhoni... I am so sorry for how you are feeling. I will be praying for you. Keep me posted on how you are doing. You can always pm me if you want. I'm a good listener. Praying peace to fall on you so you can have sweet sleep tonight.

[ReddMann24]

rhoni, I will be praying ....everyones situation is different so i wont say i know how you feel but i do want to tell you about a message that helped me "revelation in your situation" you can hear it at timdmiller.com if it dosent come up let me know and i can send it to you ...GOD bless.

[Rhoni]

Rhoni... I am so sorry for how you are feeling. I will be praying for you. Keep me posted on how you are doing. You can always pm me if you want. I'm a good listener. Praying peace to fall on you so you can have sweet sleep tonight.

rhoni, I will be praying ....everyones situation is different so i wont say i know how you feel but i do want to tell you about a message that helped me "revelation in your situation" you can hear it at timdmiller.com if it dosent come up let me know and i can send it to you ...GOD bless.

Thanks so much. It really isn't about 'feelings' so much, but it is about unrelenting situations. I'll try to access the message from work. I slept fine. I've been sleeping fine. I am functioning and even love God with all my heart...just angry right now. I am sure I'll be embarassed when I see what God does in the future, but my now is pretty hard to take.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Mercy,

God is a BIG God with BROAD shoulders. He has an answer for you...but you have to be ready to heal. Many times we hold on to our pain because we enjoy it. We use it as an excuse to stay where we are when God has so much more to give us and to show us. Tell him how you 'FEEL'. Tell him why you are angry. Don't hedge or come up with nice words so that he won't get angry with you. He knows what you are saying in your heart and mind. As all the venom spews out...He will cover it with His blood and fill the empty place in your heart with so much love that it will amaze you.

This is what he used to help me, and my situation is different from yours but the feelings probably the same:
God used this opportunity to show me a bit of his sovereign nature.
He showed me where my will and another's will were at odds.
God, in his sovereignity loves his sons and daughters equally.
He will not let my will be done to the overriding of another person's will.
What he did show me is who I am and what I mean to him.

He promised to never leave me nor forsake me. This has covered my abandonment and rejection issues.
Romans 8:28 promises me that he is working all things [those both good and bad] for my good.
He called me according to his purpose:
He foreknew decisions I would make and that others would make.
He pre-destined me to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.
Hejustifies those he calls and glorifies them.

God didn't spare his son Jesus from the sufferring that His will could be accomplished in us so...
Why would God take away our sufferring to conform us to his will?

I ask you...Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or nakedness, or sword?


Thanks so much. It really isn't about 'feelings' so much, but it is about unrelenting situations. I'll try to access the message from work. I slept fine. I've been sleeping fine. I am functioning and even love God with all my heart...just angry right now. I am sure I'll be embarassed when I see what God does in the future, but my now is pretty hard to take.

Blessings, Rhoni

Just preaching to myself.:friend

[Sarah]

Yes, Rhoni, I've been 'mad' at God, and even rather foolishly lashed out at Him once or twice in prayer for a minute or two. I did this, knowing all the time that he sees the big picture, and knows what's best for me and those I love.

My anger didn't last long. Neither will yours, because after all is said and done, if you trust God, you just can't stay mad at the maker of the universe!

[Rhoni]

Yes, Rhoni, I've been 'mad' at God, and even rather foolishly lashed out at Him once or twice in prayer for a minute or two. I did this, knowing all the time that he sees the big picture, and knows what's best for me and those I love.

My anger didn't last long. Neither will yours, because after all is said and done, if you trust God, you just can't stay mad at the maker of the universe!

:friend I guess you are right about that!:friend

[Rhoni]

O.K. A good friend gave me some inside information..I am MAD, at myself, my circumstances, and a few other people, but I am NOT mad at God. It isn't His fault!

Blessings, Rhoni

[nahkoe]

O.K. A good friend gave me some inside information..I am MAD, at myself, my circumstances, and a few other people, but I am NOT mad at God. It isn't His fault!

Blessings, Rhoni

I'm sorry. I hope this resolves quickly and easily, and favorably.

(and, it isn't His fault, you're right)

[Rhoni]

I'm sorry. I hope this resolves quickly and easily, and favorably.

(and, it isn't His fault, you're right)

Thank you...I am changing what I can change, accepting the things I cannot change, and hopefully I have the wisdom to know the difference.:friend:tease Left over from my Allanon group.

[nahkoe]

Thank you...I am changing what I can change, accepting the things I cannot change, and hopefully I have the wisdom to know the difference.:friend:tease Left over from my Allanon group.

You just made me laugh out loud. I totally recognized that, from Allanon. lol

I didn't think of that one time during this ordeal, I think it would have frustrated me very much. But sitting where I am now, it made me laugh. Especially since I did some things, or some things happened, I'm still not sure which it really was, that were truly impossible....they were beyond the "change the things I can change" in this little prayer.

I pray for you, my friend, the wisdom to know the things you can change, the wisdom to know the steps to take to change them, the wisdom to know which things only God can change, and the wisdom to patiently wait while He does that.

[Michael Phelps]

Thank you...I am changing what I can change, accepting the things I cannot change, and hopefully I have the wisdom to know the difference.:friend:tease Left over from my Allanon group.

Reminds me of a situation with my son last year. When my boys were little, I tried to get them into golf. I took them to the range, the course, sent them to golf clinics, etc. and just NO interest.

So, finally I gave up.

Well, last year, my oldest son decided he wanted to golf, so he started going with his buddy. Well, his buddy had been playing for much longer, and thoroughly whipped him every time.

So, he calls me and says a little testily, "I wish you would have gotten us into golf when I was little!"

I said, "I TRIED TO! YOU GUYS WEREN'T INTERESTED!"


He replied, "Well, I wish you would have tried harder!"

I think that's how God may feel sometimes. He tries to guide us, we ignore it, and then when things don't work out, we get mad at Him!

Not saying that's what has happened with you, Rhoni, but I know it sure has happened with me several times!

The good news is that my son now plays golf, got some lessons, and is doing just fine. And, so it is with us - it's never too late to be what we were destined to be, even though we may think we've wasted time!

[Rhoni]

Reminds me of a situation with my son last year. When my boys were little, I tried to get them into golf. I took them to the range, the course, sent them to golf clinics, etc. and just NO interest.

So, finally I gave up.

Well, last year, my oldest son decided he wanted to golf, so he started going with his buddy. Well, his buddy had been playing for much longer, and thoroughly whipped him every time.

So, he calls me and says a little testily, "I wish you would have gotten us into golf when I was little!"

I said, "I TRIED TO! YOU GUYS WEREN'T INTERESTED!"


He replied, "Well, I wish you would have tried harder!"

I think that's how God may feel sometimes. He tries to guide us, we ignore it, and then when things don't work out, we get mad at Him!

Not saying that's what has happened with you, Rhoni, but I know it sure has happened with me several times!

The good news is that my son now plays golf, got some lessons, and is doing just fine. And, so it is with us - it's never too late to be what we were destined to be, even though we may think we've wasted time!

Thank you MP...words of wisdom I needed to hear. I know what to tell others but I need someone to tell me every now and then:friend

[Michlow]

I was mad at God for a long time (seething rage might be a more accurate description). Or at least I thought I was. The truth is that I wasn't really mad at God, I was angry that a construct that I was taught was God's character proved faulty. Eventually I realized that I was angry at God, because other humans taught me things about God that wasn't true.

Even though I knew that it wasn't God's fault, I had a hard time, because I felt that God could have prevented them from giving me an inaccurate view of Him. Eventually I stopped whining about the past, and started asking him to help me clean up the mess.

"Is God to Blame" by Gregory A. Boyd, really helped me a lot.

[Rhoni]

I was mad at God for a long time (seething rage might be a more accurate description). Or at least I thought I was. The truth is that I wasn't really mad at God, I was angry that a construct that I was taught was God's character proved faulty. Eventually I realized that I was angry at God, because other humans taught me things about God that wasn't true.

Even though I knew that it wasn't God's fault, I had a hard time, because I felt that God could have prevented them from giving me an inaccurate view of Him. Eventually I stopped whining about the past, and started asking him to help me clean up the mess.

"Is God to Blame" by Gregory A. Boyd, really helped me a lot.

Thank you, I'll have to get that book. It sounds like something that would be useful, not only to myself, but my clients.:friend

[Michlow]

Thank you, I'll have to get that book. It sounds like something that would be useful, not only to myself, but my clients.:friend

Greg Boyd is one of my new favorites (I also really enjoyed his "Letters from a Skeptic").

I think one of the things that really helped me, was just the feeling of validation. So many people were shocked by my attitude and it's like they were giving me a wide berth, so when the lightning struck they wouldn't be caught in it.

[rgcraig]

O.K. A good friend gave me some inside information..I am MAD, at myself, my circumstances, and a few other people, but I am NOT mad at God. It isn't His fault!

Blessings, Rhoni

You have wise friends :friend

[Michael Phelps]

Greg Boyd is one of my new favorites (I also really enjoyed his "Letters from a Skeptic").

I think one of the things that really helped me, was just the feeling of validation. So many people were shocked by my attitude and it's like they were giving me a wide berth, so when the lightning struck they wouldn't be caught in it.

Fortunately, lightning doesn't travel thru the internet.:ursofunny

[Rhoni]

You know, it is ironic...the Bible tells us in order to reign with Him [Jesus] we must also suffer with Him. Jesus Christ sufferred such injustices. Not only did the Jewish nation as a whole not recognize him for who He was, but his own followers who had lived with him, ate with him, been ministered to by him, and witnessed the miracles up close and personal...misunderstood, rejected him when it was time for them to stand up for Him.

There are many things I have learned through my own personal sufferrings; alienation, rejection by peers and co-workers, but the greatest of these is rejection and alienation from the most beloved of my family members.

The intimidation of religious leaders who abode by every letter of the law, such as the Pharisees, condemned the one whom they thought they were serving. Many times the law/legaism brings a self-righteousness and validation/justification for our sinful behavior and our separation from family and lifelong friends. We can stand on our "principles" and miss out on the important things of life.

The devil is like a cancer. If he doesn't get what he wants one way - he will try another way until he gets what he wants. The devil's job is to steal, kill, and destroy the things that God holds sacred; marriage, family, and faith. The devil is not above using every trick to separate spouses from each other, children from parents, and to cause despair and hopelessness.

Thank God for Jesus. Reading the end of the story and knowing how it will turn out when it is all said and done gives hope. The last days, we understnad, the people of god will be worn out by the constant battling of the devil, but God promises to return for his church before all is lost.

My life reminds me of Abraham in that he was told to leave his father and mother, relatives, and travel far from home to a land where God would lead him...in faith. I am sure his family did not understand, and at times Abraham did not understand but he did not waver at the promises of god. May I, may we, not lose our faith and continue letting God direct our paths even when, like Lott who chose what appearred to be the better place, the better & more prosperous path; may we continue to choose God's way and not be intimidated to follow man's way.

In Jesus name. Amen

[Rhoni]

You have wise friends :friend

It is a good thing we run in the same circles:friend

[Michlow]

Fortunately, lightning doesn't travel thru the internet.:ursofunny

yeah, you would all be dead!!! :heeheehee

[Rhoni]

My mother informed me today that until I get rid of my anger and bitterness that I will not attract the friends and step into the destiny God has for me. Guess she told me. She is probably right. Anyone know a therapist?

[ILG]

I have been very mad at God. I asked him for example, why my husband and I spent our whole adult lives working for something that we would leave. Our goal was simply to have a self-supporting church and spend our days working there and to raise our kids well. Well, come to find out that we taught our kids and other people things that we regret (standards and legalism) and left the UPC and everything we had worked for all those years. Some people from the church also sued us and made our lives miserable for a long time. What was the point behind all of this? I still don't know. I was very angry at God when we first left. Now less so, but I still don't know why we spent all that time and effort only to leave it behind. Yes, I wanted to leave. I didn't believe it anymore. But why did I believe so strongly when God knew all along it wasn't so? I may never have the answer to these questions and more and now I am trying to learn how to function in a world I don't understand very well. Sometimes it is quite taxing since my framework has changed.

[Timmy]

I was mad at God for a long time (seething rage might be a more accurate description). Or at least I thought I was. The truth is that I wasn't really mad at God, I was angry that a construct that I was taught was God's character proved faulty. Eventually I realized that I was angry at God, because other humans taught me things about God that wasn't true.

Even though I knew that it wasn't God's fault, I had a hard time, because I felt that God could have prevented them from giving me an inaccurate view of Him. Eventually I stopped whining about the past, and started asking him to help me clean up the mess.

"Is God to Blame" by Gregory A. Boyd, really helped me a lot.

Doh! I still haven't reordered that book. Will now. Stand by ... ... ... Done! This time, the receipt looks right. (For those of you wondering, I tried to order this once before, and accidentally got the wrong book. My fault or theirs, not sure. Probably mine, though.)

BTW, despite how my posts may sound, I don't actually blame God for anything. I just don't hold him Him to any of the "promises" that are attributed to Him. I don't believe He would ever promise something He had no intention of (always) doing, like John 16:23 or James 5:15. I don't think He wants us to ask Him to do things for us. He wants us to make our own way, live at peace with each other, help and love each other, and use common sense. Use the brains He gave us. That's all. ;)

[Rhoni]

I have been very mad at God. I asked him for example, why my husband and I spent our whole adult lives working for something that we would leave. Our goal was simply to have a self-supporting church and spend our days working there and to raise our kids well. Well, come to find out that we taught our kids and other people things that we regret (standards and legalism) and left the UPC and everything we had worked for all those years. Some people from the church also sued us and made our lives miserable for a long time. What was the point behind all of this? I still don't know. I was very angry at God when we first left. Now less so, but I still don't know why we spent all that time and effort only to leave it behind. Yes, I wanted to leave. I didn't believe it anymore. But why did I believe so strongly when God knew all along it wasn't so? I may never have the answer to these questions and more and now I am trying to learn how to function in a world I don't understand very well. Sometimes it is quite taxing since my framework has changed.


ILG,
Nothing you have done for God will ever be forgotten. I think sometimes as ministry people we get too territorial and our expectations are more about us than about the kindgom. I am not saying it was this way for you, but I know in times past it was that way for me.

After UPCI, I spent 7+ years angry with God over that. When my ex and I discussed turning in our card and taking a group of people on who had split from the mother church - I did not understand the repercussions! The loss of the social system I had all my life, the alienation of peers, co-workers, and acquaintances. One day we were one of the most successful of our JCM family and the next we were forgotten and in the sea of non-existence.

My whole world changed and I was so angry with UPCI, the system, the people, and most of all God. I did get healing from this in 2004. I realized that the UPCI is made of of individuals just like I used to be. I was arrogant and judgmental and did my share of dissing those who strayed from the mother ship. It wasn't God's fault...it was our decision and although it seemed like the right thing to do...the loss was enormous.

ILG...I have felt your pain. Just know...God is a big God and he understands what you are going through and He has a way of making it all right.:friend

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Doh! I still haven't reordered that book. Will now. Stand by ... ... ... Done! This time, the receipt looks right. (For those of you wondering, I tried to order this once before, and accidentally got the wrong book. My fault or theirs, not sure. Probably mine, though.)

BTW, despite how my posts may sound, I don't actually blame God for anything. I just don't hold him Him to any of the "promises" that are attributed to Him. I don't believe He would ever promise something He had no intention of (always) doing, like John 16:23 or James 5:15. I don't think He wants us to ask Him to do things for us. He wants us to make our own way, live at peace with each other, help and love each other, and use common sense. Use the brains He gave us. That's all. ;)

Sounds like Deterministic Humanism to me.:tease J/K. I don't know sometimes...there are times I think he expects me to do something and I don't know what it is He wants me to do, and then...there I times I expect Him to do something, and he just waits... *sigh*

[Timmy]

Sounds like Deterministic Humanism to me.:tease J/K. I don't know sometimes...there are times I think he expects me to do something and I don't know what it is He wants me to do, and then...there I times I expect Him to do something, and he just waits... *sigh*

Frustrating, isn't it? Well, I am finding peace in my new beliefs, that I never had in the unpredictable and contradictory world of Pentecost! My father-in-law passed away recently, and his last few years were spent in the belief that some of his grandchildren (my "backslidden" sons, among perhaps others) were destined for hell. He pleaded with them, in tears, to recommit to Jesus. Where is the peace and joy in that kind of life? Well, I suppose my kids should have made him happy and started believing again. After all, belief is mandatory, isn't it? No, seriously. It is a requirement to believe what you are told to believe. Or else. Just seems really weird, now, when I think about it.

[Timmy]

Oh, by the way, I'd have voted #1 if the vote were open. I've been mad at God in the past. Didn't understand why things didn't work the way they were supposed to. Raise up a child in the way he should go, etc. (Mine departed.) The fruit of the Spirit is joy. For me, the fruit was depression.

Where was the joy? Where was the peace? Yeah, I was mad, not only at God but at myself. Actually asked God to kill me, more than once. I thought I was a failure. If I was a good Christian, if I could just "get it right", I shouldn't be having these thoughts, these doubts. These failings.

But I'm fine, now. See? That's me, down there in my sig!

[Rhoni]

Oh, by the way, I'd have voted #1 if the vote were open. I've been mad at God in the past. Didn't understand why things didn't work the way they were supposed to. Raise up a child in the way he should go, etc. (Mine departed.) The fruit of the Spirit is joy. For me, the fruit was depression.

Where was the joy? Where was the peace? Yeah, I was mad, not only at God but at myself. Actually asked God to kill me, more than once. I thought I was a failure. If I was a good Christian, if I could just "get it right", I shouldn't be having these thoughts, these doubts. These failings.

But I'm fine, now. See? That's me, down there in my sig!

Timmy,

But are you truly free? Do we ever really not have doubts? Do we really believe that God is "an on time God". Is it wrong to question that?

Did any of us really..."train up our children in the way they should go?" or was it the way we were taught to go?

I have not asked God to kill me - even though I have thought at times that death would be better than this...but I know, what I know, what I know. God spared my life in 1991 and He has a purpose. I don't see it, don't truly understand it, but would in no wise want to die before He accomplishes what He set out to accomplish in me.

Just venting...
Rhoni

[ILG]

Nothing you have done for God will ever be forgotten. I think sometimes as ministry people we get too territorial and our expectations are more about us than about the kindgom. I am not saying it was this way for you, but I know in times past it was that way for me.

Thanks Ronnie. I guess while I was doing all the work etc., I really believed that God and I were on the same page and in it together with the same goals in mind. I think the tough part was realizing that that wasn't entirely true. I think the pain and disappointment may have been easier to deal with had I not really and truly believed I was doing God's will and also that I felt His Spirit was leading me to do the things I did. I think I was led by the Spirit only in the context of what I felt I had to believe....in other words...God was leading me, but only within the narrow framewlrk that I let him. :roseglasses

After UPCI, I spent 7+ years angry with God over that. When my ex and I discussed turning in our card and taking a group of people on who had split from the mother church -[I][B] I did not understand the repercussions! The loss of the social system I had all my life, the alienation of peers, co-workers, and acquaintances. One day we were one of the most successful of our JCM family and the next we were forgotten and in the sea of non-existence.

I didn't entirely understand the repercussions of leaving, but feel that I would do it over again regardless. I couldn't stay and perpetrate the system that hurt me so much. I felt I would have been an utter hypocrite to do so. Living that way when you believe it is one thing....supporting what you don't believe in is another. The social system, I lost some of that. It was a little worse than I thought it would be, but we were basically isolated for years anyway and we have no family in the church, so that part wasn't real hard, although harder than I thought it would be. I think the hardest part is feeling like we've been duped and now, trying to figure out where to draw the lines on things that were so clear before. I find this hardest socially, as the system was a social prop to us, even though we were mostly isolated. There was a framework that I didn't realize was there that allowed me to not rub shoulders with others. Now, I am faced with rubbing shoulders and I don't know how to do that very well.

My whole world changed and I was so angry with UPCI, the system, the people, and most of all God. I did get healing from this in 2004. I realized that the UPCI is made of of individuals just like I used to be. I was arrogant and judgmental and did my share of dissing those who strayed from the mother ship. It wasn't God's fault...it was our decision and although it seemed like the right thing to do...the loss was enormous.

I am just healing slowly every day. Sometimes I feel great and am so glad to be out and have a new lease on life. And sometimes I am angry for what I have lost. I'm sure God will help me sort it all out in the end. I feel God's support even while I am angry at Him for the losses and the deception that I sometimes blame Him for allowing in my life.

ILG...I have felt your pain. Just know...God is a big God and he understands what you are going through and He has a way of making it all right.:friend

Thanks.

[ILG]

Reminds me of a situation with my son last year. When my boys were little, I tried to get them into golf. I took them to the range, the course, sent them to golf clinics, etc. and just NO interest.

So, finally I gave up.

Well, last year, my oldest son decided he wanted to golf, so he started going with his buddy. Well, his buddy had been playing for much longer, and thoroughly whipped him every time.

So, he calls me and says a little testily, "I wish you would have gotten us into golf when I was little!"

I said, "I TRIED TO! YOU GUYS WEREN'T INTERESTED!"


He replied, "Well, I wish you would have tried harder!"

I think that's how God may feel sometimes. He tries to guide us, we ignore it, and then when things don't work out, we get mad at Him!

Not saying that's what has happened with you, Rhoni, but I know it sure has happened with me several times!

The good news is that my son now plays golf, got some lessons, and is doing just fine. And, so it is with us - it's never too late to be what we were destined to be, even though we may think we've wasted time!

Thats good, MP...both from a parental viewpoint and from a child of God's viewpoint. Thanks for sharing.

[Rhoni]

Thanks Ronnie. I guess while I was doing all the work etc., I really believed that God and I were on the same page and in it together with the same goals in mind. I think the tough part was realizing that that wasn't entirely true. I think the pain and disappointment may have been easier to deal with had I not really and truly believed I was doing God's will and also that I felt His Spirit was leading me to do the things I did. I think I was led by the Spirit only in the context of what I felt I had to believe....in other words...God was leading me, but only within the narrow framewlrk that I let him. :roseglasses


ILG,
The key words in your statement are "while I was doing all the work"... that was what I was taught...work work, work...that is what God expects of me and God will be pleased. Like you, I believed God and I were on the same page, and His will was leading me. {my eyes are burning because the mascara is dripping into my eyes here, sorry}. The validation & affirmation I have received through the years have come in the form of previous saints who have spoken well of me, one young minister at Emmaus & Beyond approached me Sunday morning at The Church of Champions and asked me if I was Sis. Rhonda Hand, I told him I used to be. He said he had some saints in his church that told him how much they loved and appreciated me. He just wanted me to know that.

The greatest compliment I ever got was that from my sister Lana. She and her ex-husband were saints in our church. Lana was the youth chior director and she and her husband were the coach of our Bible Quiz team. She said that I was a good Pastor's wife and I loved people more than anyone she had ever seen.

If that is all I get from the years of 'work' - it will have been worth it. But you are so right...we box God into small boxes and it is because our expectations were framed by what we were taught. God is so much more than that. If there has been anything I have learned from this experience, it is that God is so much greater, His kingdom is so much larger, and we are so much smaller than we think we are sometimes. The Bible tells us that one plants, another waters, but God give the increase.




I didn't entirely understand the repercussions of leaving, but feel that I would do it over again regardless. I couldn't stay and perpetrate the system that hurt me so much. I felt I would have been an utter hypocrite to do so. Living that way when you believe it is one thing....supporting what you don't believe in is another. The social system, I lost some of that. It was a little worse than I thought it would be, but we were basically isolated for years anyway and we have no family in the church, so that part wasn't real hard, although harder than I thought it would be. I think the hardest part is feeling like we've been duped and now, trying to figure out where to draw the lines on things that were so clear before. I find this hardest socially, as the system was a social prop to us, even though we were mostly isolated. There was a framework that I didn't realize was there that allowed me to not rub shoulders with others. Now, I am faced with rubbing shoulders and I don't know how to do that very well.

M

M, The feeling you are having are so true...but there will come a time that you think you need to go back to reclaim all that...but there is no going back. They have not changed, but indeed you have. You would betray yourself, and even your relationship to God to think that you can go back and participate in that mind think that God has brought you out of. What God is trying to tell us is: We don't need to be propped up by an organization, fair-weather friends, and even family. God wants to be our one and only PROP. He says, trust me...and see what I will do.:friend

I am just healing slowly every day. Sometimes I feel great and am so glad to be out and have a new lease on life. And sometimes I am angry for what I have lost. I'm sure God will help me sort it all out in the end. I feel God's support even while I am angry at Him for the losses and the deception that I sometimes blame Him for allowing in my life.


Healing is a process. We heal from the inside out. Yes, even when we are angry with God...He knows we love Him and need Him and He knows that we will be ashamed of ourselves when we see His plans for our destiny unfold. Don't blame yourself...many times when we first give our lives to ministry we feel called to do...we are idealistic and our expectations of being used are more glorious than the truth. To be "used" has never been a good thing; not with friends, leadership, or family, so why do we expect being "used" by God to be all ice cream & roses? The rewards may not be realized in this world...but we have a hope beyond this world anyway - don't we? The good things we enjoy along the way are only loaned to us by God and don't really belong to us anyway.



Thanks.

ILG,

No thanks are necessary...you are not alone, we are not alone. There are so many who are feeling/have felt the same way as us. We have been made strong to be able to stand in this time and this place for a reason. Be encouraged...He who hath begun a good work in you, will complete it.

Together with you in His grip,:friend
Rhoni

[ILG]

He said he had some saints in his church that told him how much they loved and appreciated me. He just wanted me to know that.

Yeah, those things help. Most of all, I want my children to be able to overcome the obstacles that have been placed before them because of our mistakes.


M, The feeling you are having are so true...but there will come a time that you think you need to go back to reclaim all that...but there is no going back. They have not changed, but indeed you have. You would betray yourself, and even your relationship to God to think that you can go back and participate in that mind think that God has brought you out of. What God is trying to tell us is: We don't need to be propped up by an organization, fair-weather friends, and even family. God wants to be our one and only PROP. He says, trust me...and see what I will do.

I really don't think I am ever going to want to reclaim anything within the UPC. Sometimes, when I see UPC people, I become wistful about the fantasy that I had and lost, but I view it as a fantasy. I might want to reclaim some things I had in my life previously. In fact, reclaiming the respect I had because of the position would be nice. But I don't want a position like that just for the respect because with the respect comes a lot of responsibility that I don't know that I ever want again.

Healing is a process. We heal from the inside out. Yes, even when we are angry with God...He knows we love Him and need Him and He knows that we will be ashamed of ourselves when we see His plans for our destiny unfold.

I might, but it might help if I knew what was going on. :)

Don't blame yourself...many times when we first give our lives to ministry we feel called to do...we are idealistic and our expectations of being used are more glorious than the truth. To be "used" has never been a good thing; not with friends, leadership, or family, so why do we expect being "used" by God to be all ice cream & roses? The rewards may not be realized in this world...but we have a hope beyond this world anyway - don't we? The good things we enjoy along the way are only loaned to us by God and don't really belong to us anyway.

I certainly felt called. Now when I feel called to something, I greatly question it and think maybe I should run very far away. :)

No thanks are necessary...you are not alone, we are not alone. There are so many who are feeling/have felt the same way as us. We have been made strong to be able to stand in this time and this place for a reason. Be encouraged...He who hath begun a good work in you, will complete it.

Together with you in His grip,:friend
Rhoni

It's nice to know I am not alone. It's a hard road. I do trust that God will lead me wherever He wants me even if I don't know how to follow.

[Rhoni]

Yeah, those things help. Most of all, I want my children to be able to overcome the obstacles that have been placed before them because of our mistakes.

ILG, You and I survived our parents mistakes, and our children will do the same. Besides they have their own mistakes to overcome. The 'obstacles' we placed in their lives are what will give them the courage and strength to overcome when life happens to them. Remember, in our youth when we thought we would do things so much different than our parents?:ursofunny



I really don't think I am ever going to want to reclaim anything within the UPC. Sometimes, when I see UPC people, I become wistful about the fantasy that I had and lost, but I view it as a fantasy. I might want to reclaim some things I had in my life previously. In fact, reclaiming the respect I had because of the position would be nice. But I don't want a position like that just for the respect because with the respect comes a lot of responsibility that I don't know that I ever want again.


The dean of the counseling program at IWU gave me a tape someone had given him. He thought I needed to listen to it. It was on grieving the loss of a role or a position. I have said it before, and I will say it again... There are times I felt like I got over the divorce long before I got over th loss of my role and position as Pastor's wife. I was so used to organizing and asking people to do things, putting them in positions to get things accomplished and then my first job out in the REAL world where I was nothing more than a peon..I bucked, screamed, and gave my employer such a difficult time. Talk about angry...they said I had no experience, nor a degree to back up the experience I claimed to have.

I was so angry I refused to acknowledge my JCM education and enrolled in a secular college and started from scratch. I got my degree in Social Work to do the job I had always done...but this time I got paid for it!:whistle Now no one can say I have the experience but no education...now I can say both and dare anyone to tell me any differently.:club




I might, but it might help if I knew what was going on. :)


I hear that is what FAITH is all about: the substance of things hoped for - the evidence of things not seen...you know how that goes;)




I certainly felt called. Now when I feel called to something, I greatly question it and think maybe I should run very far away. :)


Like Jonah, you can run, but not hide...God knows where you are and...The calling of God is without repentance. What I am angry about is that I know the calling of God is there and what he has called me to do...but no one else recognizes it or gets on board...what is that about?:friend




It's nice to know I am not alone. It's a hard road. I do trust that God will lead me wherever He wants me even if I don't know how to follow.

Looks like we are in the same boat and we are trying to paddle and steer the boat with our own hands...what would you tell me to do? I would tell you to stop trying so hard and let God direct your boat/life.:snapout

*hugs*
Rhoni

[Rhoni]

I was up thru the night checking the Weather Channel for news about whats going on in Ike's path. I have been concerned, and praying for my AFF friends who live in that area. I pray all is well. I woke up early this morning and, the first thought that came to mind was of a brother here on AFF. He doesn't live in Texas, but, for whatever reason, the Lord gave me what Ibelieve is a word for this brother (whose name I won't post). I pray this is a blessing to him, and to anyone who reads it...

What doest thou here, Elijah?
1 Kings 19 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Kings+19)

Elijah had just accomplished some great things for God. He had proven before the eyes of all of Israel that God was the true God of Israel. He had slain a great multitude of false prophets. Elijahs ministry was marked by the miraculous. He had done great things for God. Elijah had set the stage for great things to be accomplished thru the ministry of his protege, Elisha. If anyone could look back and see that God had been faithful to him in his life and ministry, it was Elijah.

Yet, here we find this mighty prophet in hiding. Ahab and Jezebel were thirsty for his blood. Elijah, it seems, had grown weary of life and, in 1 Kings 19:4 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Kings+19%3A4), we find this prophet of God actually desiring to die. Yet, God wasn't thru with his prophet. There was more to do for God's Kingdom. Elijah had unfinished business. Remember those words, brother... UNFINISHED BUSINESS.

Verse 19 tells us that Elijah "...came thither unto a cave, and lodged there...". Note the words "...and lodged there....". Elijah, thinking his ministry and his very life were at an end, took up pernament residence in a cave. But God had other plans for this servant of God. Verse 19 continues: "....behold, the word of the LORD [came] to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?"

The question on my mind this morning is this: "What doest thou here?". Are you in the thick of what God has called you to do, or are you taking up pernament residence in a place God has not called you to? As you look over your shoulder, do you see that you have accomplished great things for God? Now... look ahead... can you say "Mission accomplished"? Or do you see some things left undone? What doest thou here, Elijah? Maybe you feel you can do no more for God. Maybe you feel you've done all you can do. That may be true- but as long as there is a soul to reach... as long as there is a Gospel to preach... as long as the Word burns within your heart... there is work to be done for God's Kingdom. God's plan for Elijah was not for him to disappear into oblivion, but God intended for Elijah to go out in a balze of glory, which is what he did....literally. Elijah left this life doing what God had called him to do. And, brother, He intends for you to do the same. Those who follow your in your footsteps to do God's work can only do so as you faithfully follow in your Masters footsteps.

What moved Elijah to take up residence in a cave, in a place where God hadn't called him to be? Discouragment? Was he "resting on his laurels"? Are you feeling discouraged? Are you satisfied with what you have done for the Lord? Or are you listening for that "still small voice" that will lead you and those who follow in your footsteps to do even more for God? Don't settle for a dark and musty cave, when God has a Blaze of glory waiting for you!


One Accord started this on another thread...it is very fitting here ILG...BTW, when is ILG & Emma going to integrate? Rhoni & Rhonda are working on it :)

Blessings,
Rhoni

[Sister Alvear]

I wish I could someway say something to help you folks...We all believe it or not have or Calvary´s...we get betrayed, hurt, spit on by those that claimed to be our friends...I feel your pain...I really do and be assured of my prayers. I am not saying that just to post but I am really concerned and praying for you all.

[Sister Alvear]

many of us have been wounded in the house of a friend...and it HURTS.

[ILG]

I wish I could someway say something to help you folks...We all believe it or not have or Calvary´s...we get betrayed, hurt, spit on by those that claimed to be our friends...I feel your pain...I really do and be assured of my prayers. I am not saying that just to post but I am really concerned and praying for you all.

Thanks Sis. A. I know you are a true blue. :)

[Rhoni]

I wish I could someway say something to help you folks...We all believe it or not have or Calvary´s...we get betrayed, hurt, spit on by those that claimed to be our friends...I feel your pain...I really do and be assured of my prayers. I am not saying that just to post but I am really concerned and praying for you all.

many of us have been wounded in the house of a friend...and it HURTS.

Thanks Sis. A. I know you are a true blue. :)

Sis Alvear, Through the past year I have felt your concern and your prayers. Just want to personally thank you. We all need armour-bearers like yourself. Your mission field is much larger than the country you are in.

:friend

Love & Prayers,
Rhoni

[ILG]

One Accord started this on another thread...it is very fitting here ILG...BTW, when is ILG & Emma going to integrate? Rhoni & Rhonda are working on it :)

Blessings,
Rhoni

Yeah, this does hit home..and helps. But, "what doeth thou here Elijah?" Am I taking up residence in a cave? Yes. I am here. It is quiet and peaceful and nobody bugs me. But the miraculous things I have seen are not happening so much. But when you have to be in the thick of Ahab and Jezebel battles in order to see God deliver you just in the nick of time before you are cut to ribbons, that may sound glorious until you do it and then it just sounds plain exhausting. The cave looks pretty good. I feel a little stirring to leave the cave and then I look down at the fields where the battles are taking place and think "Why should I?" Maybe someday I will actually want to leave and carry a sword again. But war is messy work. Do you know that when you are used to war, living at peace is hard work? There is not the thrill of the battle. Things seem mundane. There is no whooping warcries and no sense of exhilaration and victory when you overcome. You know that. But how much is sheer wartime dysfunctional living and how much is simply not knowing how to live in a time of peace? Both thoughts terrify me.

Emma and ILG? I have done a little posting as Emma on another list, but I find it difficult to post as Emma. It's hard for me to have a clear Emma view which may mean that the intergration is largely done and I am posting on memories, mostly. And Emma was a saucy debater with ultra-cons. The debating bug has largely left me and I don't have much desire for it.

[ILG]

Looks like we are in the same boat and we are trying to paddle and steer the boat with our own hands...what would you tell me to do? I would tell you to stop trying so hard and let God direct your boat/life.:snapout

*hugs*
Rhoni

What would I tell you to do? Rest in God and know that position is just not that important. Position comes from God, not man and not from an educational institution. I completely understand your thoughts on no one recognizing your talents just because you are not in a position of pastor's wife anymore. I have grieved that position greatly. I left there and worked briefly as a hotel housekeeper and was asked by one of my co-workers "What are you doing here??" And that stung and I wondered just what it was I was doing there. I would like to go to school (I have taken some classes in recent years) but I will have to wait on that. In the meantime, affirming myself with no one there to validate me is one of the hardest things I've ever done. I feel like a rubber band stuck between the ideas of the UPC that promotion comes from God and the ideas of the world that promotion comes from education and people promoting you because of it. I am stretched.

[Rhoni]

Yeah, this does hit home..and helps. But, "what doeth thou here Elijah?" Am I taking up residence in a cave? Yes. I am here. It is quiet and peaceful and nobody bugs me. But the miraculous things I have seen are not happening so much. But when you have to be in the thick of Ahab and Jezebel battles in order to see God deliver you just in the nick of time before you are cut to ribbons, that may sound glorious until you do it and then it just sounds plain exhausting. The cave looks pretty good. I feel a little stirring to leave the cave and then I look down at the fields where the battles are taking place and think "Why should I?" Maybe someday I will actually want to leave and carry a sword again. But war is messy work. Do you know that when you are used to war, living at peace is hard work? There is not the thrill of the battle. Things seem mundane. There is no whooping warcries and no sense of exhilaration and victory when you overcome. You know that. But how much is sheer wartime dysfunctional living and how much is simply not knowing how to live in a time of peace? Both thoughts terrify me.



ILG, You are just regrouping, strengthening yourself, and being strengthened by God because you know you are not ready to surrender. There are friends and family who are MIA and you and I have to get back in there and find them. We are in wartime, we fight not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers... this is more exhausting than a physical fight.

The good thing is the banner we are fighting under...Jehoveh Nissi . In Him there is no defeat. It is always good to enter into a battle that you know you are going to win. You are not in a time of peace, nor are you in a lifestyle of dysfunction...you are just in the eye of the hurricane...waiting for the winds and rain to rage against the church of God. But you will stand, you will fight again, and you will overcome.:friend


Emma and ILG? I have done a little posting as Emma on another list, but I find it difficult to post as Emma. It's hard for me to have a clear Emma view which may mean that the intergration is largely done and I am posting on memories, mostly. And Emma was a saucy debater with ultra-cons. The debating bug has largely left me and I don't have much desire for it.

Sounds like Emma and Rhoni can put up their swords for now...the friends of Job have left...for now:club

What would I tell you to do? Rest in God and know that position is just not that important. Position comes from God, not man and not from an educational institution. I completely understand your thoughts on no one recognizing your talents just because you are not in a position of pastor's wife anymore. I have grieved that position greatly. I left there and worked briefly as a hotel housekeeper and was asked by one of my co-workers "What are you doing here??" And that stung and I wondered just what it was I was doing there. I would like to go to school (I have taken some classes in recent years) but I will have to wait on that. In the meantime, affirming myself with no one there to validate me is one of the hardest things I've ever done. I feel like a rubber band stuck between the ideas of the UPC that promotion comes from God and the ideas of the world that promotion comes from education and people promoting you because of it. I am stretched.

ILG,

The path I took was one of my own choosing...your choice is going to be different. We fight in the same war but in different battle fields. I sit at my computer daily, authorizing substance abuse treatment for the state of Kansas and wonder what I am doing here also.

You and I both know that UPCI, education, and white collar or blue collar employment is not what prmotes us...God and doing His will is what will promote us.

When that stretched rubber band comes to rest - it is always in a different place. Don't be afraid of the stretching...it is just going to give you the direction you are searching for.

This I will promise you...when I pray, I will pray for my sister/ILG, and I will ask God to set us where He needs us and let us find peace and contentment in doing His will one more time.

:friend
Blessings & Prayers, Rhoni

[TalkLady]

Hey, ILG, it's good to see you posting more again. I have missed seeing you here...I will be praying for you.

Promotion from God is not more prestige or advancement by the standards of men....IT may mean more suffering - more awareness of what is real - an awareness of who HE IS. To KNOW Him is to KNOW that man made positions mean nothing at all in His sight....Makes me say, "Woe is Me..."

MATTHEW 16:24-26

24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

[ILG]

Hey, ILG, it's good to see you posting more again. I have missed seeing you here...I will be praying for you.

Promotion from God is not more prestige or advancement by the standards of men....IT may mean more suffering more awareness of what is real - an awareness of who HE IS. To KNOW Him is to KNOW that man made positions mean nothing at all in His sight....Makes me to say, "Woe is Me..."

MATTHEW 16:24-26

24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Thanks TalkLady. I agree on one level...I guess in my heart of hearts I agree. But it's hard not to feel like a complete idiot for giving my whole life to pastoring and building churches for something I no longer believe in and have left while I look around at those around me who never did that and went to school, got a degree and now have something to show for it and, although God has been good to us in it all.....my husband has a good job and I have a pretty good one....it makes me wonder about it all. My heart leaps with hope to read the words you wrote from the Bible and my mind says it's just a bunch of religious rhetoric trying to make me feel good for throwing my life into something that was a big waste of time.

[Rhoni]

Hey, ILG, it's good to see you posting more again. I have missed seeing you here...I will be praying for you.

Promotion from God is not more prestige or advancement by the standards of men....IT may mean more suffering - more awareness of what is real - an awareness of who HE IS. To KNOW Him is to KNOW that man made positions mean nothing at all in His sight....Makes me say, "Woe is Me..."

MATTHEW 16:24-26

24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

:friend

[ILG]

P.S. If it means more suffering, I will stay in the cave. I'm not a complete idiot! :ursofunny

[TalkLady]

Thanks TalkLady. I agree on one level...I guess in my heart of hearts I agree. But it's hard not to feel like a complete idiot for giving my whole life to pastoring and building churches for something I no longer believe in and have left while I look around at those around me who never did that and went to school, got a degree and now have something to show for it and, although God has been good to us in it all.....my husband has a good job and I have a pretty good one....it makes me wonder about it all. My heart leaps with hope to read the words you wrote from the Bible and my mind says it's just a bunch of religious rhetoric trying to make me feel good for throwing my life into something that was a big waste of time.

ILG, do you believe you helped even one person to escape eternal punishment? Think about it. If you just helped one person, isn't that more than any career could mean?

You do know in your heart of hearts that it is not just a bunch of religious rhetoric. I don't think you have thrown your life away. From what I can tell you are still a relatively young person. People change. Maybe you have changed and grown. Also, maybe I am going off in waters that are too deep for me - but here is what comes to mind: Don't mistake a time when the grain of corn has to die to believe that there will be no harvest in your life.

Love you, Sis....Sorry I have to go AFK right now. I promise I will pray for you....I know about the cave experience myself. It's hard to find food and water in the cave. You have to venture out even if it means harm. God loves you enough to give you a shelter in Him. That cave is just temporary.

[Sister Alvear]

Sometimes we all come face to face with reality and it scares us. I cringe to say this but last night my sister and I were talking about some UC´s are the bloodiest sect of OP´s that exist. (I do not mean all UC´s we were talking about a certain brand) Some people live their whole life tearing down others. They are never happy until blood is shed on the alters...the so called alters where God is supposed to be found. They have turned into a place where people stand and crucify brothers and sisters over minimal things.
I have had people come and take advantage of our kindness to return to the states to crucify us...however dear ones whatever you did for the Lord it was for HIM and He wrote it down in the book where all things are recorded. It is easy to let our sacrifice become our downfall.
Even while writing these words to encourage you I am in a personal battle to keep my heart right about someone that lied on or family. We all go through these things…If we are in a storm HE counted us worthy to face the storm…some He just fed and sent away.
We will come out better…we will know our real friends…and we will find out what we really believe and what is precious to us.
So dear ones some may have decided your future among them BUT they have no power to decide who will get into the kingdom of God...
I know some are hurt because a whole life was spent for seemly nothing but that is not true...the devil wants you to think that...YOU are precious and no matter what others say your labor of love will never be forgotton.

[Rhoni]

Sometimes we all come face to face with reality and it scares us. I cringe to say this but last night my sister and I were talking about some UC´s are the bloodiest sect of OP´s that exist. (I do not mean all UC´s we were talking about a certain brand) Some people live their whole life tearing down others. They are never happy until blood is shed on the alters...the so called alters where God is supposed to be found. They have turned into a place where people stand and crucify brothers and sisters over minimal things.
I have had people come and take advantage of our kindness to return to the states to crucify us...however dear ones whatever you did for the Lord it was for HIM and He wrote it down in the book where all things are recorded. It is easy to let our sacrifice become our downfall.
Even while writing these words to encourage you I am in a personal battle to keep my heart right about someone that lied on or family. We all go through these things…If we are in a storm HE counted us worthy to face the storm…some He just fed and sent away.
We will come out better…we will know our real friends…and we will find out what we really believe and what is precious to us.
So dear ones some may have decided your future among them BUT they have no power to decide who will get into the kingdom of God...
I know some are hurt because a whole life was spent for seemly nothing but that is not true...the devil wants you to think that...YOU are precious and no matter what others say your labor of love will never be forgotton.

Sis. Alvear,

Many of us know of what is happening there and we are praying for you. It is courageous of you to try and encourage us when you are going through so much yourself. The times we live in are very difficult. The devil is trying to wear out the church, from within.

The Bible tells us, when we have done all to stand...just stand. There are battles that are not ours to fight and the more we defend ourselves the more we get attacked. Just stand and see the salvation of the Lord.

Love & Prayers,
Rhonda

[Sister Alvear]

That´s what friends are for...to help one another...I want to be a helper because I know I am being encouraged by friends even at this moment.

[Rhoni]

That´s what friends are for...to help one another...I want to be a helper because I know I am being encouraged by friends even at this moment.

:friend

[ILG]

I can't say I know what you are going through Ss. Alvear although I imagine it must be very difficult. Sometimes when you write of things, I am amazed at the things you do go through. Anyway, you are in my prayers. Prayer does change things. I do know that.

[Sister Alvear]

I just hate that my blood sisters know lies that are being told...They have a very low opinion of OP people to start with.
And I am glad they know it is just lies...

[Rhoni]

I just hate that my blood sisters know lies that are being told...They have a very low opinion of OP people to start with.
And I am glad they know it is just lies...

Sis Alvear,

Just watching you survive the storms that have come your way is an example to your people. Just keep your spirit of forgiveness and mercy and God will save your people.

:friend

Blessings, Rhoni

[Sister Alvear]

thanks Rhoni...pray for us.

[Rhoni]

Attitude


There once was a woman who woke up one morning,
looked in the mirror,
and noticed she had only three hairs on her head.
'Well,' she said, 'I think I'll braid my hair today.'
So she did and she had a wonderful day.

The next day she woke up,
looked in the mirror
and saw that she had only two hairs on her head.
'H-M-M,' she said,
'I think I'll part my hair down the middle today.'
So she did and she had a grand day.

The next day she woke up,
looked in the mirror and noticed
that she had only one hair on her head.
'Well,' she said, 'today I'm going
to wear my hair in a pony tail.'
So she did, and she had a fun, fun day.

The next day she woke up,
looked in the mirror and noticed
that there wasn't a single hair on her head.
'YAY!' she exclaimed.
'I don't have to fix my hair today!'

Attitude is everything.


Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...

It's about learning to dance in the rain.

[Ananias]

There are some wonderful thoughts on this thread. If I may "chime in"...I think that sometimes most of us get "mad at God". Job became upset/mad at God so much so that he wished he could see him face to face and question Him. While the Almighty is the All-powerful, All-knowing, etc., it does help to realize that He is also not insecure and is "big enough" to allow us to question Him. But sometimes (often) He simply doesn't give an answer. When he chooses to remain silent, trusting Him and His heart and purpose is a difficult thing to do. But it is how we grow and become stronger. Jesus was asleep in the back of the boat during one the greatest storms the 12 had ever faced (see Mark 4). They toiled all night against the storm, water came into the boat and at times it seemed like the boat was sinking. I can only imagine the howling winds, the blinding rain, the angry rage of the sea. And Jesus slept through the whole thing. Sometimes it does seem like our "boat" is about to sink. We toil to make things better, try to trust God, and things seem to get worse. But when Jesus woke up, He was not happy. He rebuked them for their lack of faith and calmed the sea. I don't know what God's reason was for the storm that night. And most of the time I'm shaking my head wondering what the reason is for "mine" and yes sometimes it seems like Jesus is "asleep" and the temptation is to cry, "Master, carest thou not that we perish?" But God's lack of action doens't point to His lack of caring or love toward us. That is our own lack of faith talking. Great faith endures the storm. Even when it seems like Jesus is asleep "doing nothing" while we perish. Like Job of old, "though He slay me, yet will I trust Him". May God grant all of us that kind of faith!

Blessings to all
Ananias Ministries

[mizpeh]

There are some wonderful thoughts on this thread. If I may "chime in"...I think that sometimes most of us get "mad at God". Job became upset/mad at God so much so that he wished he could see him face to face and question Him. While the Almighty is the All-powerful, All-knowing, etc., it does help to realize that He is also not insecure and is "big enough" to allow us to question Him. But sometimes (often) He simply doesn't give an answer. When he chooses to remain silent, trusting Him and His heart and purpose is a difficult thing to do. But it is how we grow and become stronger. Jesus was asleep in the back of the boat during one the greatest storms the 12 had ever faced (see Mark 4). They toiled all night against the storm, water came into the boat and at times it seemed like the boat was sinking. I can only imagine the howling winds, the blinding rain, the angry rage of the sea. And Jesus slept through the whole thing. Sometimes it does seem like our "boat" is about to sink. We toil to make things better, try to trust God, and things seem to get worse. But when Jesus woke up, He was not happy. He rebuked them for their lack of faith and calmed the sea. I don't know what God's reason was for the storm that night. And most of the time I'm shaking my head wondering what the reason is for "mine" and yes sometimes it seems like Jesus is "asleep" and the temptation is to cry, "Master, carest thou not that we perish?" But God's lack of action doens't point to His lack of caring or love toward us. That is our own lack of faith talking. Great faith endures the storm. Even when it seems like Jesus is asleep "doing nothing" while we perish. Like Job of old, "though He slay me, yet will I trust Him". May God grant all of us that kind of faith!

Blessings to all
Ananias Ministries

Thank you! :friend

[Rhoni]

Thank you! :friend

Psalm 55:22 - you really need to read this.
'Friends are God's way of taking care of us.'
This was written by a Metro Denver Hospice Physician:

I was driving home from a meeting this evening about 5, stuck in traffic on Colorado Blvd., and the car started to choke and splutter and die - I barely managed to coast, cursing, into a gas station, glad only that I would not be blocking traffic and would have a somewhat warm spot to wait for the tow truck. It wouldn't even turn over. Before I could make the call, I saw a woman walking out of the 'quickie mart ' building, and it looked like she slipped on some ice and fell into a Gas pump, so I got out to see if she was okay

When I got there, it looked more like she had been overcome by sobs than that she had fallen; she was a young woman who looked really haggard with dark circles under her eyes. She dropped something as I helped her up, and I picked it up to give it to her. It was a nickel.

At that moment, everything came into focus for me: the crying woman, the ancient Suburban crammed full of stuff with 3 kids in the back (1 in a car seat), and the gas pump reading $4.95.

I asked her if she was okay and if she needed help, and she just kept saying ' don't want my kids to see me crying,' so we stood on the other side of the pump from her car. She said she was driv ing to California and that things were very hard for her right now. So I asked, 'And you were praying?' That made her back a away from me a little, but I assured her I was not a crazy person and said, 'He heard you, and He sent me.'

I took out my card and swiped it through the card reader on the pump so she could fill up her car completely, and while it was fuelling, walked to the next d oor McDonald's and bought 2 big bags of food, some gift certificates for more, and a big cup of coffee. She gave the food to the kids in the
car, who attacked it like wolves, and we stood by the pump eating fries and talking a little.

She told me her name, and that she lived in Kansas City her boyfriend left 2 months ago and she had not been able to make ends meet. She knew she wouldn't have money to pay rent Jan 1, and finally in desperation had finally called her parents, with whom she had not spoken in about 5 years. They lived in California and said she could come live with them and try to get on her feet there.

So she packed up everything she owned in the car. She told the kids they were going to California for Christmas, but not that they were going to live there.

I gave her my gloves, a little hug and said a quick prayer with her for safety on the road. As I was walking over to my car, she said, 'So, are you like an angel or something?'

This definitely made me cry. I said, 'Sweetie, at this time of year angels are really busy, so sometime s God uses regular people.' < / B>

It was so incredible to be a part of someone else's miracle. And of course, you guessed it, when I got in my car it started right away and got me home with no problem. I'll put it in the shop tomorrow to check, but I suspect the mechanic won't find anything wrong.

Sometimes the an gels f ly close enough to you that you can hear the flutter of their wings...

Psalms 55:22 'Cast thy burden upon the Lord, and He shall sustain thee. He shall never suffer the righ teous to be moved.'

My instructions were to pick four people that I wanted God to bless, especially for the months in 2008, and I picked you.

Please pass this to four people you want to be blessed and a copy back to me.


Here is the prayer: < I>

'Father, I ask You to bless my children, grandchildren, friends, relatives and email buddies reading this right now. Show them a new revelation of your love and power. Holy Spirit, I ask You to minister to their spirit this very moment. Where there is pain, give them Your peace and mercy. Where there is self doubt, release a renewed confidence through Your grace, In Jesus' precious name. Amen.'

I know I picked more than four, you can, too.When Satan is knocking at your door, simply say, 'Jesus, could You please get that for me

[Falla39]

Attitude


There once was a woman who woke up one morning,
looked in the mirror,
and noticed she had only three hairs on her head.
'Well,' she said, 'I think I'll braid my hair today.'
So she did and she had a wonderful day.

The next day she woke up,
looked in the mirror
and saw that she had only two hairs on her head.
'H-M-M,' she said,
'I think I'll part my hair down the middle today.'
So she did and she had a grand day.

The next day she woke up,
looked in the mirror and noticed
that she had only one hair on her head.
'Well,' she said, 'today I'm going
to wear my hair in a pony tail.'
So she did, and she had a fun, fun day.

The next day she woke up,
looked in the mirror and noticed
that there wasn't a single hair on her head.
'YAY!' she exclaimed.
'I don't have to fix my hair today!'

Attitude is everything.


Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...

It's about learning to dance in the rain.


This is very good! Paul said that he had "learned" to be content
in whatever state he found himself in. No doubt from all the
situations Paul found himself in, he chose to be thankful!


Blessings,

Falla39

I really liked this post about attitude, Sis. Rhoni! Thanks for posting
it!

[Falla39]

There are some wonderful thoughts on this thread. If I may "chime in"...I think that sometimes most of us get "mad at God". Job became upset/mad at God so much so that he wished he could see him face to face and question Him. While the Almighty is the All-powerful, All-knowing, etc., it does help to realize that He is also not insecure and is "big enough" to allow us to question Him. But sometimes (often) He simply doesn't give an answer. When he chooses to remain silent, trusting Him and His heart and purpose is a difficult thing to do. But it is how we grow and become stronger. Jesus was asleep in the back of the boat during one the greatest storms the 12 had ever faced (see Mark 4). They toiled all night against the storm, water came into the boat and at times it seemed like the boat was sinking. I can only imagine the howling winds, the blinding rain, the angry rage of the sea. And Jesus slept through the whole thing. Sometimes it does seem like our "boat" is about to sink. We toil to make things better, try to trust God, and things seem to get worse. But when Jesus woke up, He was not happy. He rebuked them for their lack of faith and calmed the sea. I don't know what God's reason was for the storm that night. And most of the time I'm shaking my head wondering what the reason is for "mine" and yes sometimes it seems like Jesus is "asleep" and the temptation is to cry, "Master, carest thou not that we perish?" But God's lack of action doens't point to His lack of caring or love toward us. That is our own lack of faith talking. Great faith endures the storm. Even when it seems like Jesus is asleep "doing nothing" while we perish. Like Job of old, "though He slay me, yet will I trust Him". May God grant all of us that kind of faith!

Blessings to all
Ananias Ministries

Profound message, Bro. Ananias! Bless you,

Falla39

[Rhoni]

There are some wonderful thoughts on this thread. If I may "chime in"...I think that sometimes most of us get "mad at God". Job became upset/mad at God so much so that he wished he could see him face to face and question Him. While the Almighty is the All-powerful, All-knowing, etc., it does help to realize that He is also not insecure and is "big enough" to allow us to question Him. But sometimes (often) He simply doesn't give an answer. When he chooses to remain silent, trusting Him and His heart and purpose is a difficult thing to do. But it is how we grow and become stronger. Jesus was asleep in the back of the boat during one the greatest storms the 12 had ever faced (see Mark 4). They toiled all night against the storm, water came into the boat and at times it seemed like the boat was sinking. I can only imagine the howling winds, the blinding rain, the angry rage of the sea. And Jesus slept through the whole thing. Sometimes it does seem like our "boat" is about to sink. We toil to make things better, try to trust God, and things seem to get worse. But when Jesus woke up, He was not happy. He rebuked them for their lack of faith and calmed the sea. I don't know what God's reason was for the storm that night. And most of the time I'm shaking my head wondering what the reason is for "mine" and yes sometimes it seems like Jesus is "asleep" and the temptation is to cry, "Master, carest thou not that we perish?" But God's lack of action doens't point to His lack of caring or love toward us. That is our own lack of faith talking. Great faith endures the storm. Even when it seems like Jesus is asleep "doing nothing" while we perish. Like Job of old, "though He slay me, yet will I trust Him". May God grant all of us that kind of faith!

Blessings to all
Ananias Ministries

ANANIAS,

This is why so many people have 'issues'. It isn't that they don't trust; it is they don't trust enough. I guess I look at the life of Joseph and he had to wonder sometimes where it was all going to end - especially when he bragged about the dreams God had given him about his brothers bowing before him. But when God worked out his pride and thoroughly humbled him - he became the most powerful ruler, but with the most humble heart of forgiveness.

God doesn't forget about us - we forget that he cannot lie and he must do what he said he would do:).

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

God and the devil get blamed for many things that they had little to nothing to do with.

[Evangelist]

Idont know anyone if they would be honest within them self would say they were never mad at GOD i think we all have at one time or another

[Rhoni]

Idont know anyone if they would be honest within them self would say they were never mad at GOD i think we all have at one time or another

Yes, we get mad becuse we don't understand his grace, sovereignity, and it is easier to blame Him than to look within ourselves and see how we contributed to the situation.:thumbsup

Blessings, Rhoni