View Full Version : {{{{{{{BREAKING NEWS!!!}}}}}} Tulsa Folks may be forced out!!! NO DUAL MEMBERSHIP!!!!
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DRAMATIC EARTH BREAKING NEWS
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Did you hear that meetings will Held SOON on the possibility of Passing a Rule not to allow Dual Memberships with UPC and Tulsa ?????????????
There is a Group of Preachers who want a Rule Passed NOW where the Tulsa folks will have to decide one way or the other!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
commonsense
12-19-2007, 11:52 PM
Could it be? You can't serve two masters? :christmoose
PastorD
12-19-2007, 11:54 PM
News does what it does . . .TRAVELS FAST!
:horn
Kings Kid
12-20-2007, 12:18 AM
This is earthshaking news no dual membership for those who want to go with the Tulsa group.
SoCaliUPC
12-20-2007, 12:24 AM
It just makes sense.
BoredOutOfMyMind
12-20-2007, 12:36 AM
And this is Earth Shattering Because??????????
I felt Resolution #4 was not half as bad as Resolution #3.
And Resolution #4 was poorly worded last year....
pelathais
12-20-2007, 01:14 AM
:star:star:star:star:
DRAMATIC EARTH BREAKING NEWS
:star:star:star:star:star
Did you hear that meetings will Held SOON on the possibility of Passing a Rule not to allow Dual Memberships with UPC and Tulsa ?????????????
There is a Group of Preachers who want a Rule Passed NOW where the Tulsa folks will have to decide one way or the other!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who constitutes this "group of preachers?" And what mechanism would they have for passing new rules?
Maybe the General Board could pass a "ruling" interpreting the WWPF* as a different "organization" according to the by-laws already in place.
*Worldwide Pentecostal Fellowship as distinct from the "World Pentecostal Fellowship (http://www.fuller.edu/archive/html/organiza.htm)" or WPF.
embonpoint
12-20-2007, 01:18 AM
Who is going to pass this rule. GC is for many months yet. A move to force men out could encourage others to go with them. The UPC could make them into martyrs.
embonpoint
12-20-2007, 01:22 AM
Who constitutes this "group of preachers?" And what mechanism would they have for passing new rules?
Maybe the General Board could pass a "ruling" interpreting the WWPF* as a different "organization" according to the by-laws already in place.
*Worldwide Pentecostal Fellowship as distinct from the "World Pentecostal Fellowship (http://www.fuller.edu/archive/html/organiza.htm)" or WPF.
It would be interesting to see, how and if they would differentiate between this group and NCO particularly since in the article by Suber posted on another thread he talked about the NCO ordaining ministers overseas.
embonpoint
12-20-2007, 01:24 AM
Who constitutes this "group of preachers?" And what mechanism would they have for passing new rules?
Maybe the General Board could pass a "ruling" interpreting the WWPF* as a different "organization" according to the by-laws already in place.
*Worldwide Pentecostal Fellowship as distinct from the "World Pentecostal Fellowship (http://www.fuller.edu/archive/html/organiza.htm)" or WPF.
They definitely could not rule against them as a "secret society" with all their info being on the web.
:jolly
pelathais
12-20-2007, 02:01 AM
They definitely could not rule against them as a "secret society" with all their info being on the web.
:jolly
:highfive
revrandy
12-20-2007, 05:26 AM
I think that would be great...I was thinking that yesterday...
If they want their own group..conferences...camps....say goodby and let the door hit em' where the Good Lord split em'.......
Brother Price
12-20-2007, 05:27 AM
Funny, I thought we were all part of one body?
TRIPLE E
12-20-2007, 05:28 AM
I think that would be great...I was thinking that yesterday...
If they want their own group..conferences...camps....say goodby and let the door hit em' where the Good Lord split em'.......
Amen so be it!:santathumb
revrandy
12-20-2007, 05:30 AM
Funny, I thought we were all part of one body?
Bro. Price...they don't consider others a part of the body...
Ronzo
12-20-2007, 05:35 AM
Sung to the tune of "I've been working on the railroad":
"I've been workin on MY kingdom
All the live long day
I've been workin on MY kingdom
Just so I can get MY way!"
Brother Price
12-20-2007, 05:36 AM
Bro. Price...they don't consider others a part of the body...
Now, that is just too sad and against scripture.
RevBuddy
12-20-2007, 06:13 AM
This is no news at all...the UPCI already has provisions in its ministerial policy against holding credentials with another organization while credentialled by the UPCI..
Yawn... :bored
revrandy
12-20-2007, 06:21 AM
This is no news at all...the UPCI already has provisions in its ministerial policy against holding credentials with another organization while credentialled by the UPCI..
Yawn... :bored
Maybe that is why it's a "loose fellowship" ????
Kansas Preacher
12-20-2007, 07:03 AM
Bro. Price...they don't consider others a part of the body...
Revrandy,
I am HIGHLY disappointed in you for making this kind of statement. The men that I know personally certainly don't have that kind of feeling. Why is that you can get a pass on these kinds of remarks, making judgment calls about their "judgmentalism."
I thought better of you than this. I'm hoping it was a poor attempt at humor.
Pastor G
12-20-2007, 07:23 AM
You know, I did a funeral the other day and the Mason's had a part in it... They wore their white aprons and big necklaces meaning something or other... Even said some secret stuff over the body...
Seems if they can be a part of whatever they want but most certainly their top and indefiled loyalty rest with the Mason's...
I wonder if this new thing will have a secret handshake, or some.... o never mind...
Revrandy,
I am HIGHLY disappointed in you for making this kind of statement. The men that I know personally certainly don't have that kind of feeling. Why is that you can get a pass on these kinds of remarks, making judgment calls about their "judgmentalism."
I thought better of you than this. I'm hoping it was a poor attempt at humor.
Brother Randy,
I think you need to step up to the plate on this one
Bro. Price...they don't consider others a part of the body...
You will have to look long and hard,high and low around here for a more judgmental and plainly erroneous statement than this one.
You know better than this, revrandy, and for sure yu know better than to broadbrush an entire group of men the way you did here.
This is absolutely bogus, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself.
You obviously have some personal resentment that goes deep.
I think that would be great...I was thinking that yesterday...
If they want their own group..conferences...camps....say goodby and let the door hit em' where the Good Lord split em'.......
What a sweet spirit.
Why don't you post things like this on CAF, if this is how you really feel?
How utterly disappointing.
And you call those Tulsa men divisive? When they have repeatedly said they want to remain in fellowship with UPC men who desire it?
The location of the division and arrogance is becoming pretty clear. You want to cut off contact with brethren of like precious faith? Men like Booker, Godair, Morton, and others?
Way to go, preacher man, full of love and compassion.
mizpeh
12-20-2007, 08:04 AM
I think that would be great...I was thinking that yesterday...
If they want their own group..conferences...camps....say goodby and let the door hit em' where the Good Lord split em'.......
This new fellowship coming out of the UPC seems elitist and holier than thou to me. But I'd prefer to pray for tolerance and unity. If that can't happen, then God bless them.
:star:star:star:star:
DRAMATIC EARTH BREAKING NEWS
:star:star:star:star:star
Did you hear that meetings will Held SOON on the possibility of Passing a Rule not to allow Dual Memberships with UPC and Tulsa ?????????????
There is a Group of Preachers who want a Rule Passed NOW where the Tulsa folks will have to decide one way or the other!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who cares so the UPC has become "wait and see".
BoredOutOfMyMind
12-20-2007, 09:04 AM
What a sweet spirit.
Why don't you post things like this on CAF, if this is how you really feel?
How utterly disappointing.
And you call those Tulsa men divisive? When they have repeatedly said they want to remain in fellowship with UPC men who desire it?
The location of the division and arrogance is becoming pretty clear. You want to cut off contact with brethren of like precious faith? Men like Booker, Godair, Morton, and others?
Way to go, preacher man, full of love and compassion.
It was another reference to the schism and division known as California.
I thought RR left the land of Fruits and Nuts for better adventures.
PastorD
12-20-2007, 09:15 AM
I don't think KH can make a ruling by himself on the issue, but he can offer a warning that the dual will not always be allowed.
These men, in my opinion, want dual to be allowed because then they don't have to disaffiliate churches and such.
Dual doesn't work for we that stay because "they" end up controlling both org's. If they go they just return to vote against any progressive move our future may call for.
Many men are realizing this and are asking KH to make such a move. If they go...they gotta go all the way. There is no such thing as a partial divorce.
I don't think KH can make a ruling by himself on the issue, but he can offer a warning that the dual will not always be allowed.
These men, in my opinion, want dual to be allowed because then they don't have to disaffiliate churches and such.
Dual doesn't work for we that stay because "they" end up controlling both org's. If they go they just return to vote against any progressive move our future may call for.
Many men are realizing this and are asking KH to make such a move. If they go...they gotta go all the way. There is no such thing as a partial divorce.
AND
THERE
YOU
HAVE
IT
Brother Randy,
I think you need to step up to the plate on this one
bump
PreacherV
12-20-2007, 09:46 AM
All the general board has to do is label the whole thing as divisive and put all ministers involved in it under question.
I predicted no dual-membership as recently as yesterday. This is no surprise to me.
BoredOutOfMyMind
12-20-2007, 09:52 AM
All the general board has to do is label the whole thing as divisive and put all ministers involved in it under question.
I predicted no dual-membership as recently as yesterday. This is no surprise to me.
Can one belong to the UPC, the NCO and the new org?
Aquila
12-20-2007, 09:55 AM
Who is going to pass this rule. GC is for many months yet. A move to force men out could encourage others to go with them. The UPC could make them into martyrs.
It's quite possible that those leaving may have already considered the possiblity that they wouldn't have to leave but rather the UPCI might force them out.
It might play into their hand.
AmazingGrace
12-20-2007, 09:58 AM
I also see coming a lot of these being put "under question" by doing all of this. If it would have stayed civil it would be one thing but its just getting silly... and I said it long ago, actually on voting day, that I thought this would happen and I think it will and probably should!
BHILL
12-20-2007, 09:59 AM
Revrandy,
I am HIGHLY disappointed in you for making this kind of statement. The men that I know personally certainly don't have that kind of feeling. Why is that you can get a pass on these kinds of remarks, making judgment calls about their "judgmentalism."
I thought better of you than this. I'm hoping it was a poor attempt at humor.
In defense of Revrandy. Many of the pastors involved in the Tulsa meetting will not let their churches fellowship with the average middle of the road UPC church,You have to be UC or you don't exist.I feel like many of these pastors don't really feel like we're part of the body of Christ.
ChicagoPastor
12-20-2007, 10:03 AM
OH LORD! I can see it it now....
"Pastor ______ why did you leave the UPC?"
"I DIDN"T LEAVE! They forced me out, they put me under question and took away my credentials? I had no intention of turning in my license, but they came after me. The fellowship I have loved since I was a little boy, that gave me the truth, and whom I have been fellowshipped with since_______ has forced me out " *sniff*
In defense of Revrandy. Many of the pastors involved in the Tulsa meetting will not let their churches fellowship with the average middle of the road UPC church,You have to be UC or you don't exist.I feel like many of these pastors don't really feel like we're part of the body of Christ.
Kansas Preacher,
Do you consider this True or false ?
revrandy
12-20-2007, 10:07 AM
Revrandy,
I am HIGHLY disappointed in you for making this kind of statement. The men that I know personally certainly don't have that kind of feeling. Why is that you can get a pass on these kinds of remarks, making judgment calls about their "judgmentalism."
I thought better of you than this. I'm hoping it was a poor attempt at humor.
KP...Many of these Pastors won't let their people or kids attend UPC functions... I have seen this first hand... in the Western District...
if that is the case how can we be one body??
BoredOutOfMyMind
12-20-2007, 10:21 AM
OH LORD! I can see it it now....
"Pastor ______ why did you leave the UPC?"
"I DIDN"T LEAVE! They forced me out, they put me under question and took away my credentials? I had no intention of turning in my license, but they came after me. The fellowship I have loved since I was a little boy, that gave me the truth, and whom I have been fellowshipped with since_______ has forced me out " *sniff*
This exactly is why sometimes bad preachers are not cast out. Threat of lawsuits. Cast out and lose the church?
Wait, it is one reason we have an AS, isn't it?
BoredOutOfMyMind
12-20-2007, 10:25 AM
KP...Many of these Pastors won't let their people or kids attend UPC functions... I have seen this first hand... in the Western District...
if that is the case how can we be one body??
Is it the norm in Oklahoma?
Casting California Schism on everyone is not at all fair.
revrandy
12-20-2007, 10:27 AM
Is it the norm in Oklahoma?
Casting California Schism on everyone is not at all fair.
Where does the Majority of the New Org's Leadership come from?
and yes there are a few churches in OK that were once UPC that don't allow their people or kids to UPC functions...
It happens everywhere...BOOM...you know first hand what we're saying..
PastorD
12-20-2007, 10:30 AM
This exactly is why sometimes bad preachers are not cast out. Threat of lawsuits. Cast out and lose the church?
Wait, it is one reason we have an AS, isn't it?
Our example......RG. He signs the same AS I do. He is in WD!
BoredOutOfMyMind
12-20-2007, 11:25 AM
Where does the Majority of the New Org's Leadership come from?
and yes there are a few churches in OK that were once UPC that don't allow their people or kids to UPC functions...
It happens everywhere...BOOM...you know first hand what we're saying..
It would not be fun if only Thad stirred the pot....
:christmoose
BoredOutOfMyMind
12-20-2007, 11:31 AM
Our example......RG. He signs the same AS I do. He is in WD!
I know of an issue where I certainly thought there would be some different actions. I was confused and asked a former DS his opinion. He said unless you have sat on a board dealing with a fallen Preacher, you never know the whole story. He related to me of one similiar preacher who fell and was never brought back. I have seen the good, the bad, and the very ugly in my 29 years in Pentecost. I also know of a couple hundred men who would get out of bed in the middle of the night to help all they could if someone was in trouble near them.
:santathumb
Pastor Keith
12-20-2007, 12:31 PM
:star:star:star:star:
DRAMATIC EARTH BREAKING NEWS
:star:star:star:star:star
Did you hear that meetings will Held SOON on the possibility of Passing a Rule not to allow Dual Memberships with UPC and Tulsa ?????????????
There is a Group of Preachers who want a Rule Passed NOW where the Tulsa folks will have to decide one way or the other!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well there is some type of prohibition against secret societies right?
Carpenter
12-20-2007, 12:36 PM
Well there is some type of prohibition against secret societies right?
What was the saying? That organization is the opiate of the masses...?
:D
Elfin
12-20-2007, 02:18 PM
btw, I've read some thoughts on it on here...but I haven't really gotten a true sense of what everyone thinks...
So, this whole question of it being a "fellowship" rather than another "organization." The UPC requires disclosure of licensing credentials w/ other religious organizations, right?
I mean, so the WWPF doesn't actually do "licensing" - or there's the speculation that they might do the two tiered thing...w/ some people being "licensed" and some people just being members of the fellowship... I mean, isn't all that just semantics?? Even if it’s two-tiered membership, it still smells super-fishy to me.
SoCaliUPC
12-20-2007, 02:53 PM
btw, I've read some thoughts on it on here...but I haven't really gotten a true sense of what everyone thinks...
So, this whole question of it being a "fellowship" rather than another "organization." The UPC requires disclosure of licensing credentials w/ other religious organizations, right?
I mean, so the WWPF doesn't actually do "licensing" - or there's the speculation that they might do the two tiered thing...w/ some people being "licensed" and some people just being members of the fellowship... I mean, isn't all that just semantics?? Even if it’s two-tiered membership, it still smells super-fishy to me.
I agree Elfin. I am not against the Tulsa group starting...but this whole thing about some being licensed and others not.....seems to try and get around the Resolution 3 that they passed. It is super-fishy.
Jekyll
12-20-2007, 03:25 PM
Can anyone clarify (just for the record) why curcumventing an org.'s bylaws is wrong? Is it not ethical but not wrong? Is it both unethical and wrong? Why?
embonpoint
12-20-2007, 03:27 PM
Where does the Majority of the New Org's Leadership come from?
I don't see, a majority from any state. 18% are from CA.
What are you saying?
I agree Elfin. I am not against the Tulsa group starting...but this whole thing about some being licensed and others not.....seems to try and get around the Resolution 3 that they passed. It is super-fishy.
Oh no .... you haven't heard ... the cons didn't help pass resolution 3 ... that's the last I heard on this forum ...
Even the close vote count was questioned
Coonskinner
12-20-2007, 03:33 PM
I was an adamant NO voter on Res. 3.
I was an adamant NO voter on Res. 3.
Yes ... you've made that abundantly clear.
But the good liberal supt. of Alabama did.
I mean, so the WWPF doesn't actually do "licensing" - or there's the speculation that they might do the two tiered thing...w/ some people being "licensed" and some people just being members of the fellowship... I mean, isn't all that just semantics?? Even if it’s two-tiered membership, it still smells super-fishy to me.
Putrid.
Coonskinner
12-20-2007, 03:38 PM
Yes ... you've made that abundantly clear.
But the good liberal supt. of Alabama did.
I didn't see Res. 3 as a liberal vs. conservative issue.
I saw it as a way to give District Boards more power.
And I am always opposed to that.
BoredOutOfMyMind
12-20-2007, 03:39 PM
Can anyone clarify (just for the record) why curcumventing an org.'s bylaws is wrong? Is it not ethical but not wrong? Is it both unethical and wrong? Why?
Why in the world would you say this violated the bylaws.
No one balked and squeeled when Daniel Alicea was recruiting for NCO earlier this year.
I didn't see Res. 3 as a liberal vs. conservative issue.
I saw it as a way to give District Boards more power.
And I am always opposed to that.
I agree w/ your view.
Yet the measure was supported by many cons .... here, on other forums and at GC .... and a con spoke in favor of it on the floor...
the vote was so close that a chaotic standing count was taken ....
Why in the world would you say this violated the bylaws.
No one balked and squeeled when Daniel Alicea was recruiting for NCO earlier this year.
ROFL .... I was recruiting .... HILARIOUS. Seriously, I'm laughing.
Boom, another zinger from the nose bleed section.
AmazingGrace
12-20-2007, 03:42 PM
Boom there is a difference! No one takes DA seriously much less for joining an org!!! On the other hand these are men who have pastored very well known churches or been a part of them or the org for years... huge difference!! LOL
Boom there is a difference! No one takes DA seriously much less for joining an org!!! On the other hand these are men who have pastored very well known churches or been a part of them or the org for years... huge difference!! LOL
Don't forget ... I haven't held a UPCI license since last fall ....
Obfuscation cubed....
I appreciate the compliment AG and Boomerang.
Jekyll
12-20-2007, 03:53 PM
Why in the world would you say this violated the bylaws.
No one balked and squeeled when Daniel Alicea was recruiting for NCO earlier this year.
Exactly, Alice doesn't know the definition of two-way street.
IF this is labeled a fellowship and that no one is asking others to leave and IF this is a way to circumvent (not violate) by-laws, what is wrong with this?
Exactly, Alice doesn't know the definition of two-way street.
IF this is labeled a fellowship and that no one is asking others to leave and IF this is a way to circumvent (not violate) by-laws, what is wrong with this?
Jerkyll,
It's Alicea .... Alee-say-uh.
Your premise is faulty .... but what else is new.
Including someone who has no ties to the mothership into this discussion.... hence not tied to by-laws ... is well ....
this demonstrates how clouding koolaid has affected the failing synapses of many in ultra-con utopia.
Jekyll
12-20-2007, 04:10 PM
Jerkyll,
It's Alicea .... Alee-say-uh.
Your premise is faulty .... but what else is new.
Including someone who has no ties to the mothership into this discussion.... hence not tied to by-laws ... is well ....
this demonstrates how clouding koolaid has affected the failing synapses of many in ultra-con utopia.
Dan-the-no-answer-man
The premise is not faulty, evidenced by the little word IF
BoredOutOfMyMind
12-20-2007, 04:12 PM
Dan-the-no-answer-man
The premise is not faulty, evidenced by the little word IF
This depends how you define IF.
:stirpot
Dan-the-no-answer-man
The premise is not faulty, evidenced by the little word IF
This may hurt ... but folks have been asked to leave ....
and that sir, is wrong ... unethical ... lacking modicum .... etc ... etc .... etc....
Add sugar ... candy coat ... dance .... rationalize .... still wrong.
BoredOutOfMyMind
12-20-2007, 04:14 PM
This may hurt ... but folks have been asked to leave ....
and that sir, is wrong ... unethical ... lacking modicum .... etc ... etc .... etc....
Add sugar ... candy coat ... dance .... rationalize .... still wrong.
But why do you care IF you already left yourself?
bishopnl
12-20-2007, 04:16 PM
Can anyone clarify (just for the record) why curcumventing an org.'s bylaws is wrong? Is it not ethical but not wrong? Is it both unethical and wrong? Why?
So circumventing the bylaws is ok....but changing them so there is no question of ethics involved is not?
If multiple churches had found ways to circumvent the bylaws regarding television advertising, would that have been viewed (or was it viewed, since obviously some churches did) by those circumventing the by-laws now as ok?
If so, the pastors in favor of television advertising shouldn't have pushed for a change so they could "legally" advertise on TV. They should've just "circumvented."
The new doctrine of "circumvention." The rule is, by-laws were made to be bent, as long as they aren't broken. ;)
But why do you care IF you already left yourself?
Cuz I do.
Why do you care that I care????
So circumventing the bylaws is ok....but changing them so there is no question of ethics involved is not?
If multiple churches had found ways to circumvent the bylaws regarding television advertising, would that have been viewed (or was it viewed, since obviously some churches did) by those circumventing the by-laws now as ok?
If so, the pastors in favor of television advertising shouldn't have pushed for a change so they could "legally" advertise on TV. They should've just "circumvented."
The new doctrine of "circumvention." The rule is, by-laws were made to be bent, as long as they aren't broken. ;)
It's ironic to hear the rule of law crowd ... that injected themselves w/ the AS and ate a manual a day .... now promoting situational ethics and the doctrine of "circumvention".
bishopnl
12-20-2007, 04:25 PM
cir·cum·vent /ˌsɜrkəmˈvɛnt, ˈsɜrkəmˌvɛnt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sur-kuhm-vent, sur-kuhm-vent] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–verb (used with object) 1. to go around or bypass: to circumvent the lake; to circumvent the real issues.
2. to avoid (defeat, failure, unpleasantness, etc.) by artfulness or deception; avoid by anticipating or outwitting: He circumvented capture by anticipating their movements.
IF circumvention is just bypassing by-laws or
IF circumvention is an attempt to, by artfulness or deception, avoid said by-laws...
why would we want to be involved in either one? Just leave, or stay. Why would there need to be some delicate wording involved in order to justify involvement in two organizations?
Because renaming something doesn't make it something else. I daresay if a lady member showed up in one of these more conservative churches tomorrow in a pair of slacks, and justified it by calling it a "split dress" it still wouldn't change the fact in the eyes of the pastor that she's wearing slacks. Calling an organization a "fellowship" so a pastor can retain dual membership isn't going to change what it is...it's only going to be an artful way of circumventing the rules. And IMO, that's unethical.
BoredOutOfMyMind
12-20-2007, 04:27 PM
Cuz I do.
Why do you care that I care????
As IF you had to ask.
BoredOutOfMyMind
12-20-2007, 04:31 PM
cir·cum·vent /ˌsɜrkəmˈvɛnt, ˈsɜrkəmˌvɛnt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sur-kuhm-vent, sur-kuhm-vent] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–verb (used with object) 1. to go around or bypass: to circumvent the lake; to circumvent the real issues.
2. to avoid (defeat, failure, unpleasantness, etc.) by artfulness or deception; avoid by anticipating or outwitting: He circumvented capture by anticipating their movements.
IF circumvention is just bypassing by-laws or
IF circumvention is an attempt to, by artfulness or deception, avoid said by-laws...
why would we want to be involved in either one? Just leave, or stay. Why would there need to be some delicate wording involved in order to justify involvement in two organizations?
Because renaming something doesn't make it something else. I daresay if a lady member showed up in one of these more conservative churches tomorrow in a pair of slacks, and justified it by calling it a "split dress" it still wouldn't change the fact in the eyes of the pastor that she's wearing slacks. Calling an organization a "fellowship" so a pastor can retain dual membership isn't going to change what it is...it's only going to be an artful way of circumventing the rules. And IMO, that's unethical.
IF it is true that a DS told a man he would not be under charges for having a TV
IF it is true that many Districts openly permit TV advertising prior to Tulsa
IF it is true that the AS was by passed this year to allow the number to be artificial of the loss due to the fallout.
Then all the other IF questions are moot IFF (scientific term meaning "if and only if") anyone still cares about integrity.
stmatthew
12-20-2007, 04:53 PM
If this was done, they would need to pull those in the AWCF and NCO out also, right??
BoredOutOfMyMind
12-20-2007, 05:01 PM
If this was done, they would need to pull those in the AWCF and NCO out also, right??
If we continue, we will not have anything to discuss on Feb 2.....
bishopnl
12-20-2007, 05:43 PM
IF it is true that a DS told a man he would not be under charges for having a TV
IF it is true that many Districts openly permit TV advertising prior to Tulsa
IF it is true that the AS was by passed this year to allow the number to be artificial of the loss due to the fallout.
Then all the other IF questions are moot IFF (scientific term meaning "if and only if") anyone still cares about integrity.
IF we are basing our own unethical actions on actions that we consider to be unethical by others, we are walking a very slippery slope.
embonpoint
12-20-2007, 07:56 PM
IF we are basing our own unethical actions on actions that we consider to be unethical by others, we are walking a very slippery slope.
Slippery slope???
I thought that was just a meritless, emotional argument used by conservative, that were trying to control through fear.
Btw I don't believe that it is a slippery slope to be unethical it is just plain wrong.
Scott Hutchinson
12-20-2007, 08:30 PM
I thought one couldn't hold a license with UPCI and a another org, ever since the UPCI has been around.
This is nothing new I understand the UPCI has long been agains't double-carding.
Jekyll
12-20-2007, 08:32 PM
I thought one couldn't hold a license with UPCI and a another org, ever since the UPCI has been around.
This is nothing new I understand the UPCI has long been agains't double-carding.
Like, holding a UPC card and another card, like a democratic party membership card?? I agree!
Scott Hutchinson
12-20-2007, 08:36 PM
HA HA But I did know of a guy that tried to hold a UPCI card and a ALJC card at the same time,he shot himself in the foot with the UPCI when he got found out.
Theophil
12-20-2007, 10:05 PM
This exactly is why sometimes bad preachers are not cast out. Threat of lawsuits. Cast out and lose the church?
Wait, it is one reason we have an AS, isn't it?
:slaphappy:slaphappy:slaphappy:grumpy:grumpy ....no.
I thought one couldn't hold a license with UPCI and a another org, ever since the UPCI has been around.
This is nothing new I understand the UPCI has long been agains't double-carding.
This is a quote from the ALJC Constitution (page 28)
8. No minister affiliated with us shall be permitted to hold papers
with any other chartered organization or association. Exception shall
be accepted in cases of property protection
They spell out "chartered organization or association" whatever that may be interpreted to mean.
Theophil
12-20-2007, 10:16 PM
This is a quote from the ALJC Constitution (page 28)
8. No minister affiliated with us shall be permitted to hold papers
with any other chartered organization or association. Exception shall
be accepted in cases of property protection
They spell out "chartered organization or association" whatever that may be interpreted to mean.
Hey Sam, watcha doin' up so late?:christmoose
nwlife
12-21-2007, 01:03 AM
This is a quote from the ALJC Constitution (page 28)
8. No minister affiliated with us shall be permitted to hold papers
with any other chartered organization or association. Exception shall
be accepted in cases of property protection
They spell out "chartered organization or association" whatever that may be interpreted to mean.
And if I remember the history from just a few years back, several of the big time aljc names were also members of the Inter. Apostolic Fellowship as well.
nwlife
12-21-2007, 01:05 AM
Also got to add there are some very interresting names on their exc. board now!!!!
http://iafnow.com
Kansas Preacher
12-21-2007, 10:22 AM
Kansas Preacher,
Do you consider this True or false ?
False.
Kansas Preacher
12-21-2007, 10:24 AM
KP...Many of these Pastors won't let their people or kids attend UPC functions... I have seen this first hand... in the Western District...
if that is the case how can we be one body??
Choosing not to participate and saying someone is not a part of the body are two different things, and you know that. I believe you owe an apology for your remarks. Again, I am sadly disappointed.
seguidordejesus
12-21-2007, 10:26 AM
Also got to add there are some very interresting names on their exc. board now!!!!
http://iafnow.com
What's so interesting about it?
revrandy
12-21-2007, 10:35 AM
Choosing not to participate and saying someone is not a part of the body are two different things, and you know that. I believe you owe an apology for your remarks. Again, I am sadly disappointed.
Actions speak louder than words sometimes...
Bro. I am sorry your disappointed and tho it may cost me...I can't apologize for feeling this...
If we can't along here on earth how will we do it in Heaven??
And if it doesn't matter there...why should it matter here concerning fellowship?
Aquila
12-21-2007, 10:56 AM
I think we will get along in heaven because there will no longer be misconceptions, misinterpretations, or judgmentalism. Our disunity here is related to the "flesh". In Heaven, or eternity, we will be glorified and will have put this flesh behind us.
Our mission should be to maintain unity with understanding diversity of opinion and mutual respect. It should also be to bring reconciliation between parties at odds. It will be a constant effort until the Lord returns.
Hey...you asked. ;)
nwlife
12-21-2007, 11:43 PM
What's so interesting about it?
Because several big names in the ALJC are a part of this group. and according to the constitution we were not supposed to be members of any other group. AND that there are UPC names in the group along with those of the AWCF if I remember correctly.
though then again I guess I fall into a similar catagory as I am a paying member of our local minister alliance which is nondenominational. I just thought it was interresting.
LordChocolate
12-22-2007, 03:46 PM
isn't this against the upci manual anyway?
StillStanding
12-22-2007, 04:02 PM
isn't this against the upci manual anyway?
The manual has never stopped anybody! :killinme
Sandra
12-22-2007, 04:25 PM
The manual has never stopped anybody! :killinme
You got that right!!!:horn:horn:horn:horn
I get it. Drinking out of whites only water fountains doesn't make one racist.
Choosing not to participate and saying someone is not a part of the body are two different things, and you know that. I believe you owe an apology for your remarks. Again, I am sadly disappointed.
Praxeas
12-22-2007, 08:36 PM
I get it. Drinking out of whites only water fountains doesn't make one racist.
TV that is a terrible example. Are you suggesting KP is a racist?
BTW it really does NOT make one a racist to drink from such a water fountain...complacent maybe but not racist.
I think you should remove this remark or at least apologize for giving the impression this is what you were doing.
Anyone with at least one brain cell knows KP isn't racist. KP made the satement he chooses not to participate with part of the Body of Chrst. The analogy comes into play because drinking from a particular water fountain because it designed for a certain race is ridiculous. The Body of Christ is supposed to work together. How can the body work together when parts of the body wants to go into convulsions?
If we are the body of Christ, we are mandated by God to work together. The implications of KP's words' is that either he's is segragating due to philisophical differences or maybe he really thinks they are not part of the body.
Example stands.
TV that is a terrible example. Are you suggesting KP is a racist?
BTW it really does NOT make one a racist to drink from such a water fountain...complacent maybe but not racist.
I think you should remove this remark or at least apologize for giving the impression this is what you were doing.
Kansas Preacher
12-23-2007, 11:23 AM
Anyone with at least one brain cell knows KP isn't racist. KP made the satement he chooses not to participate with part of the Body of Chrst. The analogy comes into play because drinking from a particular water fountain because it designed for a certain race is ridiculous. The Body of Christ is supposed to work together. How can the body work together when parts of the body wants to go into convulsions?
If we are the body of Christ, we are mandated by God to work together. The implications of KP's words' is that either he's is segragating due to philisophical differences or maybe he really thinks they are not part of the body.
Example stands.I was NOT saying that about myself. This is what happens when people don't read the entire thread. I was addressing Revrandy's remarks that the men who are meeting in Tulsa don't believe the UPCI is a part of the body of Christ. I was talking about THEM, not ME.
Regardless, your comment was tasteless at best.
Nevertheless, I have been duly chastised as being "more serious than a heart attack" while on this forum. Just so people will know that I know how to have a little fun:
:gotcha
:nahnah
Theophil
12-23-2007, 01:12 PM
I was NOT saying that about myself. This is what happens when people don't read the entire thread. I was addressing Revrandy's remarks that the men who are meeting in Tulsa don't believe the UPCI is a part of the body of Christ. I was talking about THEM, not ME.
Regardless, your comment was tasteless at best.
Nevertheless, I have been duly chastised as being "more serious than a heart attack" while on this forum. Just so people will know that I know how to have a little fun:
:gotcha
:nahnah
:thebunny Chastisement revoked. By the authority vested in me I hereby revoke and repudiate this chastisment and pronounce one, KP, alright and O.K.. :santathumb
:jolly
AmazingGrace
12-23-2007, 03:24 PM
Ok Ok OK I got the hint... you took mine, cc1 and some others advice and chilled a bit ey?
Glad to see it! Your really pretty fun to post around when your not "serious as a heart attack!" :)
SO there!!!!!!:nahnah
Are you turning in your license because of doctrinal compromise? Or a diffrence in philosophy? Did the upci come up with a doctrine opposed to Acts 2:38? Did resolution 4 say something about compromising salvation? The Body of Christ shouldn't drink out of separate water fountains. The River of Living Water doesn't know conservative or liberal labels. I don't understand the logic. If the upci is part of the body, than why exit? From what I understand, there are no upci edicts which forces you to preach something you are against.
The same comment applies to the Tulsa Tango group. If we can't work together in this world, there is no way we are going to get along in heaven. There are not separate water fountains for conservatives and separate ones for liberals in heaven. There is enough we have in common to impact the world. These unecessary games of political jockeying and/or isolation is getting old. Everyone has something valuable to bring to the table without compromising integerity.
On a different topic, our church said a prayer for people in the state of Kansas. From what I understand some nasty weather has hit the area and a lot of people were left stranded. I haven't had a chance to check the Weather Channel
I was NOT saying that about myself. This is what happens when people don't read the entire thread. I was addressing Revrandy's remarks that the men who are meeting in Tulsa don't believe the UPCI is a part of the body of Christ. I was talking about THEM, not ME.
Regardless, your comment was tasteless at best.
Nevertheless, I have been duly chastised as being "more serious than a heart attack" while on this forum. Just so people will know that I know how to have a little fun:
:gotcha
:nahnah
Pastor G
12-23-2007, 07:47 PM
I had recorded a PBS special that was Eric Clapton's 2007 Crossroads... At one point Cheryl Crow came out and Sang "Tulsa Time" with Eric Clapton... It just made me laugh all over again...
I had recorded a PBS special that was Eric Clapton's 2007 Crossroads... At one point Cheryl Crow came out and Sang "Tulsa Time" with Eric Clapton... It just made me laugh all over again...
Perhaps the Tulsa Group will adopt this as their official song.
They could have a video of Cheryl and Eric singing it on the video screens......oops...er.....a cassette tape playing of it.
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