LATEST JOEL OSTEEN CONTROVERSY!!! Mormons are saved too!!!!!

[Thad]

JOEL OSTEEN DECLARES MORMONS ARE CHRISTIAN TOO!!!

Uuuuh ooooh !!!! Have you heard the latest on Joel Osteen????

He was just interviewed by Mike wallace on FNC

Down in the middle of it they discuss Osteen's belief that Mormon's are Christians.




http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,318054,00.html

[RevDWW]

Does that surprise anyone?

[Thad]

Does that surprise anyone?


well yea it did me

[Praxeas]

Not surprised.

[Ferd]

well yea it did me

I dont know why. Joels gospel doesnt exclude. kinda like some folk around here.

[Joe 7]

I'm not either...

[Thad]

I dont know why. Joels gospel doesnt exclude. kinda like some folk around here.


Besides carjak, who else here believes Mormon's are christian or saved?

[Steve Epley]

Does Joel think Ben Laden is lost that is the question. He is right behind Carlton Pearson. God hasn't called him to preach anything to anyone except
self-help feel goodism.

[Joseph Miller]

I dont know why. Joels gospel doesnt exclude. kinda like some folk around here.


:scoregood:scoregood:scoregood


GREAT POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree 100%

[PastorD]

Nicest guy in the world. I see him often in restaurants and such. He is always friendly and talkative. However, he is a DISASTER in an interview. I don't know why his inner circle keeps letting him do it.

[Ferd]

Nicest guy in the world. I see him often in restaurants and such. He is always friendly and talkative. However, he is a DISASTER in an interview. I don't know why his inner circle keeps letting him do it.

Disaster in an interview? well, If I were a sinner, and I went to him to find out how to be saved, I suspect the disaster would be wose!

[Michael Phelps]

JOEL OSTEEN DECLARES MORMONS ARE CHRISTIAN TOO!!!

Uuuuh ooooh !!!! Have you heard the latest on Joel Osteen????

He was just interviewed by Mike wallace on FNC

Down in the middle of it they discuss Osteen's belief that Mormon's are Christians.




http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,318054,00.html

Why do we care what Joel believes?

Never ceases to amaze me that many on here won't give him, or Jakes, or anyone else outside of the ranks the time of day, and yet we post their every move and tear them apart!

If we've already established that they don't have the "truth", why do we continue to act amazed when they say or do something to substantiate our opinion?

[PastorD]

I think folks would be shocked how many people get the HG there every service. They actually push it pretty strong. None of that ever makes the camera's obviously.

I know one OP based church that grew by 600 last year and the pastor told me that 90% of the people were from Lakewood.

Joel gets many in the door with the smiles and hopefully somewhere in the process they get hungry for more and end up in deeper waters.

[Michael Phelps]

I think folks would be shocked how many people get the HG there every service. They actually push it pretty strong. None of that ever makes the camera's obviously.

I know one OP based church that grew by 600 last year and the pastor told me that 90% of the people were from Lakewood.

Joel gets many in the door with the smiles and hopefully somewhere in the process they get hungry for more and end up in deeper waters.

I totally agree with you, PastorD, but many on here don't, obviously. I just get tired of the "BREAKING NEWS" that wants to expose the faults of every minister that is outside our ranks. Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

[Newman]

I think folks would be shocked how many people get the HG there every service. They actually push it pretty strong. None of that ever makes the camera's obviously.

I know one OP based church that grew by 600 last year and the pastor told me that 90% of the people were from Lakewood.

Joel gets many in the door with the smiles and hopefully somewhere in the process they get hungry for more and end up in deeper waters.

Wow. That is interesting to know. I remember Bro. Strange posting about a Joel Olsteen's mother's stay at a local hospital. If memory serves me correctly, God miraculously healed her and she prayed for others with great annointing. So its not too surprising that Joel Olsteen's Church is not just another pretty church.

It's great to know that the Holy Ghost is moving and hungry souls are seeking God because we know that God is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him (Hebrews 11:6). :snowman

[Stephanas]

Any Christian that believes that "Mormons are saved too," is completely ignorant of either Christianity or mormonism, or both.

[simplyme]

I totally agree with you, PastorD, but many on here don't, obviously. I just get tired of the "BREAKING NEWS" that wants to expose the faults of every minister that is outside our ranks. Seems a bit hypocritical to me.


AMEN AMEN, yes that is probably the #1 order of business [childish pasttime] here, not to speak of 'antichristian' behavior.
oh and btw, "their ranks"? From what I've read, many here don't even believe in OP., acts2:38, or hardly anything but their OWN interpretations, so how is J Osteen any different from those 'ranks' anyway? Its like the pot calling the kettle black! :D
I happen to LIKE Joel Osteen, I see that he is called not so much to preach but to just speak positive things from the word of GOD, peppered with numerous annecdotes, and while we do need to focus on the goodness of GOD , I prefer meat/salad first, with my meal, then dessert., not solely dessert.
Perhaps the salad/dessert only fellowships will be what draws some of those never before interested in things of GOD.
The HolyGhost is omnipresent and can detect the hungry/thirsty souls, then fill them! ;) Hallelujah!
GOD is so good.

[Neck]

JOEL OSTEEN DECLARES MORMONS ARE CHRISTIAN TOO!!!

Uuuuh ooooh !!!! Have you heard the latest on Joel Osteen????

He was just interviewed by Mike wallace on FNC

Down in the middle of it they discuss Osteen's belief that Mormon's are Christians.




http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,318054,00.html

I will not watch nor read any of his books.

Since he was on Larry King and called the Cross a negative symbol.

He might as well have a Basketball NBA Team suit up in his arena.

You might get better entertainment...

[Thad]

Isn't it funny how the folks who cry the loudest about Thad's Tab always find their way here ?? :christmoose

[Thad]

I will not watch nor read any of his books.

Since was on Larry King and called the Cross a negative symbol.

He might as well have a Basketball suit up in his arena.

You might get better entertainment...


You'd better run for cover!! say one negative word about JO around here and your head will be on the chopping block

Let's just ignore that he embraces Mormonism and clobber those who bring it to the surface

[Steve Epley]

The man will not make a stand against anything. His own words are his enemies not us that quote them.

[Thad]

The man will not make a stand against anything. His own words are his enemies not us that quote them.


AMEN TO THAT!!!!!


NOw you know you better prepare for mike,newman,PastorD and some of the other JO defenders to come after you don't you ??

[Michael Phelps]

Isn't it funny how the folks who cry the loudest about Thad's Tab always find their way here ?? :christmoose

I won't visit Thad's tab. This just popped up under new posts, and I was interested to see what scriptures were being violated on this particular gossip piece.

[simplyme]

I won't visit Thad's tab. This just popped up under new posts, and I was interested to see what scriptures were being violated on this particular gossip piece.

ditto

[Thad]

ditto

Please I rarely see you posting any place else

[Thad]

I won't visit Thad's tab. This just popped up under new posts, and I was interested to see what scriptures were being violated on this particular gossip piece.

Good for you :santathumb

[Michael Phelps]

Good for you :santathumb

LUKE 9
49And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

50And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

[simplyme]

Please I rarely see you posting any place else

I always check "new posts" when logging in and I don't ever check whet area they originate., and as for JOsteen I agree that he is not correct doctrinally bent, and will answer to GOD for that; he is mainly a positive public speaker, and all around nice guy with a nice smile, pretty wife and prettier kids.
He is doing well for himself, are we perhaps a bit jealous? :D

NOT me anyways., but I do appreciate positive anything.
I know what is truth., I know that Mormons are NOT christian, too bad he won't offend anyone so much so that he ignores this.

[chseeads]

Posting in Thad's Tab threads when they're in the New Posts window, but not in Thad's Tab.....

That sounds kind of like watching videos at home but not going to the theater.... Or wearing pants at home, but not out in public.....

:D

[PastorD]

AMEN TO THAT!!!!!


NOw you know you better prepare for mike,newman,PastorD and some of the other JO defenders to come after you don't you ??

Thad...your panties are twisted so early today. Relax. I am just pointing out the Joel is nice. I know in your brand of Pentecost that is a sin. And, that many people are getting the HG there. God forbid.

Joel's dad was a good man. Your own NW bragged of a relationship with him. I certainly don't agree with Joel, but would take those 600 that got filled there.

[Michael Phelps]

The man will not make a stand against anything. His own words are his enemies not us that quote them.

I'm interested in knowing where you get your facts, Elder?

Have you ever sat down with Joel and discussed what he believes? Have you ever read any of his books?

Upon what grounds do you make this ludicrous statement?

[Joseph Miller]

Posting in Thad's Tab threads when they're in the New Posts window, but not in Thad's Tab.....

That sounds kind of like watching videos at home but not going to the theater.... Or wearing pants at home, but not out in public.....

:D



I think you have a good point.

[PastorD]

LUKE 9
49And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

50And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

Now...there is a mature post. :highfive

[Thad]

I'm interested in knowing where you get your facts, Elder?

Have you ever sat down with Joel and discussed what he believes? Have you ever read any of his books?

Upon what grounds do you make this ludicrous statement?


Still here uh........ the clock is ticking MIke :christmoose

[Thad]

Posting in Thad's Tab threads when they're in the New Posts window, but not in Thad's Tab.....

That sounds kind of like watching videos at home but not going to the theater.... Or wearing pants at home, but not out in public.....

:D


Wearing pajamis to bed is the same as wearing pants in public???
I know pastors who preach this I didn't know you was one of them wow

[Michael Phelps]

Posting in Thad's Tab threads when they're in the New Posts window, but not in Thad's Tab.....

That sounds kind of like watching videos at home but not going to the theater.... Or wearing pants at home, but not out in public.....

:D

Nice try, Cheesy, but I scan New Posts, and when I see one that interests me, I click on it - I don't pay attention to what segment of the Forum it's earmarked in.

This one interested me, because once again, big Charismatic preacher's real or perceived imperfections are showcased by the elite who say, "See, I told you this guy's success is phony".

[Michael Phelps]

Still here uh........ the clock is ticking MIke :christmoose

???

Not sure I understand this post...............


But, hey, since we're here, and the coffee is hot, let's sit down and have a cup, and you can explain to me why you agreed with the Elder's comments.

Have you, Thad, ever sat down with Joel to discuss his beliefs? Do you know his viewpoint of what it takes to be saved? How many of his books have you read? Have you ever heard him preach/teach?

[Thad]

Thad...your panties are twisted so early today. Relax. I am just pointing out the Joel is nice. I know in your brand of Pentecost that is a sin. And, that many people are getting the HG there. God forbid.

Joel's dad was a good man. Your own NW bragged of a relationship with him. I certainly don't agree with Joel, but would take those 600 that got filled there.

A Joel Osteen expert/supporter has spoken folks - notice the Love ozzing from every bodily cavity ??? :christmoose

[Joseph Miller]

Wearing pajamis to bed is the same as wearing pants in public???
I know pastors who preach this I didn't know you was one of them wow


I am not a pastor but this is what I beleive.

If it is an abomination for a woman to wear pants then it is an abomination in private or public. If it being done in private makes it ok, then what other abominations are ok in private?

We must be consistant, that is why I am a "3 stepper", it is consistant with the ENTIRE Bible.

[chseeads]

Nice try, Cheesy, but I scan New Posts, and when I see one that interests me, I click on it - I don't pay attention to what segment of the Forum it's earmarked in.

This one interested me, because once again, big Charismatic preacher's real or perceived imperfections are showcased by the elite who say, "See, I told you this guy's success is phony".

I'm not throwing rocks at you specifically, MP, just an analogy I'm throwing out there... I still think it fits though. :p

:penguin

[Thad]

???

Not sure I understand this post...............


But, hey, since we're here, and the coffee is hot, let's sit down and have a cup, and you can explain to me why you agreed with the Elder's comments.

Have you, Thad, ever sat down with Joel to discuss his beliefs? Do you know his viewpoint of what it takes to be saved? How many of his books have you read? Have you ever heard him preach/teach?


So we need to have a private interview with him before we can post an opinion of what HE SAID in his interviews ?????

[chseeads]

I am not a pastor but this is what I beleive.

If it is an abomination for a woman to wear pants then it is an abomination in private or public. If it being done in private makes it ok, then what other abominations are ok in private?

We must be consistant, that is why I am a "3 stepper", it is consistant with the ENTIRE Bible.

What JM said....

Althought this is t-totally off topic now. :D

:penguin

[Michael Phelps]

I'm not throwing rocks at you specifically, MP, just an analogy I'm throwing out there... I still think it fits though. :p

:penguin

I know, you are right, it might seem inconsistent on my part.

I guess I just get a bit riled with all the "exposes" on Charismatic preachers, when I don't see any threads revealing the imperfections of UPC preachers!

I guess we sweep our own scandals under the rug?

[chseeads]

I know, you are right, it might seem inconsistent on my part.

I'm gonna print this post and have it bronzed!


:penguin

[Thad]

I am not a pastor but this is what I beleive.

If it is an abomination for a woman to wear pants then it is an abomination in private or public. If it being done in private makes it ok, then what other abominations are ok in private?

We must be consistant, that is why I am a "3 stepper", it is consistant with the ENTIRE Bible.

So then we can't run around the house with just our underwear on either because that would be imodest in public???

[Joseph Miller]

So we need to have a private interview with him before we can post an opinion of what HE SAID in his interviews ?????


Yes you must. The only one who really "hears" what he is saying is the one conducting the interview. If you are watching it then there is no way you really understand what he is saying. :stirpot

:penguin

[PastorD]

A Joel Osteen expert/supporter has spoken folks - notice the Love ozzing from every bodily cavity ??? :christmoose

Your making me nervous Thad. You music types shouldn't talk like this . . .

:tease

[Michael Phelps]

So we need to have a private interview with him before we can post an opinion of what HE SAID in his interviews ?????

Nope, but Elder Epley didn't reference what Joel said in his interviews.

He said, and I quote, "The man will not make a stand against ANYTHING".

I am just curious as to how the Elder knows that, because I believe it to be a false statement.

But, you said AMEN TO THAT, so maybe you have some inside knowledge?

[Joseph Miller]

So then we can't run around the house with just our underwear on either because that would be imodest in public???


imodest in public? yes

Abomination? no

[Michael Phelps]

I'm gonna print this post and have it bronzed!


:penguin

YOu better, I may not make the statement again!

[chseeads]

So then we can't run around the house with just our underwear on either because that would be imodest in public???

You can run around in your undies, or out of them for that matter, that's okay, because you're in private...

The point in this line of thinking is that if THE GARMENT itself is the thing that is a sin, then it should not matter where on earth you wear it.

[Thad]

Yes you must. The only one who really "hears" what he is saying is the one conducting the interview. If you are watching it then there is no way you really understand what he is saying. :stirpot

:penguin

ummm ok

well I'm sure Brother MIke will appreciate this post anyways :)

[Joseph Miller]

Nope, but Elder Epley didn't reference what Joel said in his interviews.

He said, and I quote, "The man will not make a stand against ANYTHING".

I am just curious as to how the Elder knows that, because I believe it to be a false statement.

But, you said AMEN TO THAT, so maybe you have some inside knowledge?


I watched an interview with Larry King he did a few years ago and then watched as IBC acted it out using the script. From what I saw and heard, the Elder is right. JO don't have a backbone to stand up for anything.

Why do these facts uspet you?

[Michael Phelps]

Nope, but Elder Epley didn't reference what Joel said in his interviews.

He said, and I quote, "The man will not make a stand against ANYTHING".

I am just curious as to how the Elder knows that, because I believe it to be a false statement.

But, you said AMEN TO THAT, so maybe you have some inside knowledge?

BUMP for Thad.

[Joseph Miller]

So then we can't run around the house with just our underwear on either because that would be imodest in public???

imodest in public? yes

Abomination? no

You can run around in your undies, or out of them for that matter, that's okay, because you're in private...

The point in this line of thinking is that if THE GARMENT itself is the thing that is a sin, then it should not matter where on earth you wear it.


I agree Chseeads.

[Michael Phelps]

I watched an interview with Larry King he did a few years ago and then watched as IBC acted it out using the script. From what I saw and heard, the Elder is right. JO don't have a backbone to stand up for anything.

Why do these facts uspet you?

The facts don't upset me in the least. I don't know Joel Osteen personally, and have no vested interest in his success, or lack thereof.

What upsets me is the gossip mentality that seems to be fostered in our ranks, the mindset that says, "Anyone who's not like us, especially those who have large churches, are fair game, and we can say anything we want about them".

This violates so many scriptures it's not funny! And, on certain other issues, we misinterpret scriptures to protect our traditions, and in doing so we become elitists, and then we feel we have the right to totally trash someone who's not like us, and the vicious cycle continues.

That's what upsets me.

[Thad]

imodest in public? yes

Abomination? no


okay so a female can wear her under garments to bed but not PJs right?

My niece went to camp one year and the ultra cons were in charge.
They got wind that some of the girls were wearing PJs.
so they came thru the cabins with flashlights inspecting what the girls had on under their sleeping bags. my niece had to take her PJs off and wear her underwear - what was more imodest?
Im not getting the logic here sorry

[chseeads]

I agree Chseeads.

I'm taking this one to the bronzing shop while I'm at it....

:penguin

[Joseph Miller]

okay so a female can wear her under garments to bed but not PJs right?

My niece went to camp one year and the ultra cons were in charge.
They got wind that some of the girls were wearing PJs.
so they came thru the cabins with flashlights inspecting what the girls had on under their sleeping bags. my niece had to take her PJs off and wear her underwear - what was more imodest?
Im not getting the logic here sorry


Wear a gown.

[chseeads]

okay so a female can wear her under garments to bed but not PJs right?

My niece went to camp one year and the ultra cons were in charge.
They got wind that some of the girls were wearing PJs.
so they came thru the cabins with flashlights inspecting what the girls had on under their sleeping bags. my niece had to take her PJs off and wear her underwear - what was more imodest?
Im not getting the logic here sorry

The logic is that if pants are a man's garment and a woman should not wear them, then she should not wear them period.



And this still has nothing to do with Joel Osteen.

:penguin

[Joseph Miller]

I'm taking this one to the bronzing shop while I'm at it....

:penguin


Does it supprise you that I agree with you?

[Thad]

BUMP for Thad.


MIke it's what has come from his own mouth

Every interview he has had when they've asked the tough questions, he can't give a straight answer OR he has given answers contrary to the word of God. Doctrine aside here, we are talking about subjects that most of christiandom agree on. why does this upset you for us to bring this out?

[chseeads]

Wear a gown.

Yeah...they even wrote a song about that....


I'm gonna wear a gown, I'm gonna wear a gown,
When the trumpet sounds, when the trumpet sounds,
As soon as my feet strike Zion, lay down my heavy burden....
Somethin' somethin somethin, shout and tell the glad story,
Sit down beside King Jesus, tell Him how I made it over....
.....I shall wear a robe and gown!



I think that's how it goes, right? :D


:penguin

[PastorD]

The facts don't upset me in the least. I don't know Joel Osteen personally, and have no vested interest in his success, or lack thereof.

What upsets me is the gossip mentality that seems to be fostered in our ranks, the mindset that says, "Anyone who's not like us, especially those who have large churches, are fair game, and we can say anything we want about them".

This violates so many scriptures it's not funny! And, on certain other issues, we misinterpret scriptures to protect our traditions, and in doing so we become elitists, and then we feel we have the right to totally trash someone who's not like us, and the vicious cycle continues.

That's what upsets me.


It could be because he had 50,000 in 4 services this weekend and we can't get 50,000 in 5 states and 10 services.

:christmoose

[chseeads]

Does it supprise you that I agree with you?

Nah, not necessarily, it's just nice when it happens sometimes and somebody 'says' it outloud. :D

:penguin

[Thad]

It could be because he had 50,000 in 4 services this weekend and we can't get 50,000 in 5 states and 10 services.

:christmoose

oh then maybe preaching universal reconciliation was the answer to having revival afterall :christmoose

[Michael Phelps]

MIke it's what has come from his own mouth

Every interview he has had when they've asked the tough questions, he can't give a straight answer OR he has given answers contrary to the word of God. Doctrine aside here, we are talking about subjects that most of christiandom agree on. why does this upset you for us to bring this out?

Thad, once again, you speak in generalities. What tough questions? What interviews? What subjects does he not agree with the rest of Christendom on, disregarding this Mormon issue?

This is not personal, this is something that I think we should all practice, if we are going to make accusations like this, we need to have our facts in place.

And, by the way, I'd defend an ultra con just as staunchly.

[PastorD]

oh then maybe preaching universal reconciliation was the answer to having revival afterall :christmoose

Did I say that?

You just refuse to give the guy credit for the things he does right. Sure, he gets plenty wrong, but he has many, many people interested in God.

Think about the people....they are going there because they are hungry. Have you ever been in their worship service with people dancing in the aisles and talking in tongues with tears streaming down their face? No....they are horrible people that are choosing church and worshiping instead of going to the football game.

What about all those COGIC people you hang with and spend money on? Are they saved Thad?

[Thad]

Thad, once again, you speak in generalities. What tough questions? What interviews? What subjects does he not agree with the rest of Christendom on, disregarding this Mormon issue?

This is not personal, this is something that I think we should all practice, if we are going to make accusations like this, we need to have our facts in place.

And, by the way, I'd defend an ultra con just as staunchly.

Mike we've started threads on every public interview that JO has done- surely you have heard of the interviews he has had with Larry king and others. The FACTS are, it came from HIS MOUTH. nothing to deny or refute.

[Michael Phelps]

Mike we've started threads on every public interview that JO has done- surely you have heard of the interviews he has had with Larry king and others. The FACTS are, it came from HIS MOUTH. nothing to deny or refute.

Hmm, apparently I missed those threads, maybe because they were in Thad's Tab.

Ok, I'll let you off the hook now, since you've basically answered my question, but I do have another question for you:

IF JO came out and said, "I do not believe that Mormons are going to heaven", would you accept him then?

[Thad]

Did I say that?

You just refuse to give the guy credit for the things he does right. Sure, he gets plenty wrong, but he has many, many people interested in God.

Think about the people....they are going there because they are hungry. Have you ever been in their worship service with people dancing in the aisles and talking in tongues with tears streaming down their face? No....they are horrible people that are choosing church and worshiping instead of going to the football game.

What about all those COGIC people you hang with and spend money on? Are they saved Thad?


A little touchy this morning aren't we?? I say you didn't get enough sleep BROTHER D :christmoose

listen, i Have never criticized the PEOPLE and their hunger for God or their worship but rather what JO Has stated from HIS mouth in the interviews.

I also have never heard you condemn his acceptance of non believers, homosexuals and now mormons. If this is were he leading (or misleading) the people that come then it seems his efforts, as good as it looks from the surface, would be in vain at least for those who do not seek greater truth

[Thad]

Hmm, apparently I missed those threads, maybe because they were in Thad's Tab.

Ok, I'll let you off the hook now, since you've basically answered my question, but I do have another question for you:

IF JO came out and said, "I do not believe that Mormons are going to heaven", would you accept him then?


accept him or agree with him?? I would agree with him

[PreacherV]

You can run around in your undies, or out of them for that matter, that's okay, because you're in private...

The point in this line of thinking is that if THE GARMENT itself is the thing that is a sin, then it should not matter where on earth you wear it.

I think we can all agree that God's original plan for mankind did not include clothing of any kind.....

PreacherV
President of Latter Day Nudists for Jesus

:ernie

just kidding. Please don't take this post seriously:jolly

[Michael Phelps]

accept him or agree with him?? I would agree with him

My point is - even if it wasn't this issue, you and others would find other issues to use against him.

Why not just ignore the guy if he's so wrong? What good will chopping him up on a public forum do?

[Thad]

My point is - even if it wasn't this issue, you and others would find other issues to use against him.

Why not just ignore the guy if he's so wrong? What good will chopping him up on a public forum do?


That's a broad sweeping assumption

we are discussing what HE SAID Mike. Lord,please help mike understand that please

This is a discussion forum Mike and guess what? you are discussing it too(on Thads Tab!!! :uhoh )

[Ferd]

Nope, but Elder Epley didn't reference what Joel said in his interviews.

He said, and I quote, "The man will not make a stand against ANYTHING".

I am just curious as to how the Elder knows that, because I believe it to be a false statement.

But, you said AMEN TO THAT, so maybe you have some inside knowledge?

I am pretty sure Joel has taken a stand against people thinking negative about themselves.


does that count?

[Steve Epley]

I'm interested in knowing where you get your facts, Elder?

Have you ever sat down with Joel and discussed what he believes? Have you ever read any of his books?

Upon what grounds do you make this ludicrous statement?

I have read and heard his interviews on Larry King and other interviews he has given. God has not called him to preach against anything it seems only to make folks smile. Zig Ziglar type of guy.

[Ronzo]

I am pretty sure Joel has taken a stand against people thinking negative about themselves.


does that count?
Coming into this one way late...

It's noble, for sure, but there's a whole lot more to a walk with God than that...

I know nothing else about this conversation, sorry.

[Ronzo]

My point is - even if it wasn't this issue, you and others would find other issues to use against him.

Why not just ignore the guy if he's so wrong? What good will chopping him up on a public forum do?

Satisfies the "I'm better than him" aspect of one's psyche.

[Steve Epley]

The facts don't upset me in the least. I don't know Joel Osteen personally, and have no vested interest in his success, or lack thereof.

What upsets me is the gossip mentality that seems to be fostered in our ranks, the mindset that says, "Anyone who's not like us, especially those who have large churches, are fair game, and we can say anything we want about them".

This violates so many scriptures it's not funny! And, on certain other issues, we misinterpret scriptures to protect our traditions, and in doing so we become elitists, and then we feel we have the right to totally trash someone who's not like us, and the vicious cycle continues.

That's what upsets me.

I have heard denominal and Charismatic preachers preach against homosexuality-abortion-preach that Jesus is the ONLY way. He is a tap dancer who says nothing. God has not called me to preach that. That is HIS words not mine.

[Thad]

I have read and heard his interviews on Larry King and other interviews he has given. God has not called him to preach against anything it seems only to make folks smile. Zig Ziglar type of guy.


RUN!!! DON"T WALK! !

Reverand Phelps and PastorD will coming after you - pitch fork, horns,tails and all :jolly

[Steve Epley]

I imagine Osteen is a nice guy and he evidently has people skills because look at what he has done. He is a very good motivational speaker and I am sure someone might get some therapy by listening to him. His father was quite a speaker. I heard him preach years ago on the radio on the Baptism of the Holy Ghost it was excellent. But to act like it is not the ministry job to stand against anything??????

[Thad]

I imagine Osteen is a nice guy and he evidently has people skills because look at what he has done. He is a very good motivational speaker and I am sure someone might get some therapy by listening to him. His father was quite a speaker. I heard him preach years ago on the radio on the Baptism of the Holy Ghost it was excellent. But to act like it is not the ministry job to stand against anything??????


Joel(ambien) Osteen a good Speaker????????????????????????????

UMMMMM guess my opinion is different on that one :christmoose

[Steve Epley]

Joel(ambien) Osteen a good Speaker????????????????????????????

UMMMMM guess my opinion is different on that one :christmoose
Motivational type speaker like Ziglar or Schuller.

[Michael Phelps]

I imagine Osteen is a nice guy and he evidently has people skills because look at what he has done. He is a very good motivational speaker and I am sure someone might get some therapy by listening to him. His father was quite a speaker. I heard him preach years ago on the radio on the Baptism of the Holy Ghost it was excellent. But to act like it is not the ministry job to stand against anything??????

I would really like to hear the interview where Joel Osteen says that God didn't call him to preach against homosexuality. I'm not saying he didn't say it, but I've never heard it for myself.

JO stands for strong families, stands for moral purity, stands for giving to the Kingdom, and helping others, he stands for putting the Word to work in your life and enjoying the abundant life that God has for us, I KNOW this, because I've heard it for myself, and read some of his books.

He stands against moral impurity, murder, lying, cheating, stealing, leading a lavish lifestyle with monies donated by the saints, and a host of other things.


Now, he probably doesn't teach the "3-step method" of salvation, and I'm quite sure he doesn't uphold the standards of the Ultra Cons, but to say he won't take a stand against anything is too broad a brush for my taste.

[PastorD]

A little touchy this morning aren't we?? I say you didn't get enough sleep BROTHER D :christmoose

listen, i Have never criticized the PEOPLE and their hunger for God or their worship but rather what JO Has stated from HIS mouth in the interviews.

I also have never heard you condemn his acceptance of non believers, homosexuals and now mormons. If this is were he leading (or misleading) the people that come then it seems his efforts, as good as it looks from the surface, would be in vain at least for those who do not seek greater truth


Thad, in all seriousness, do you know me? You are the one to confirm whether or not I have condemned what he said?

I said he was NICE! Again, that is against your brand of Pentecost. Re-read my posts as I also said there was "plenty he gets wrong" and that I "did not agree with him."

You would have to talk to the guy in person. When I talk to him...he is looking at the ground, staring up at the ceiling, the same well-shucks kind of speech. We are used to preachers being fast on their feet, having the gift of gab and never at a loss for words. Joel is soooo far from that. He can't hardly put two sentences together without a script in front of him. That is why he is a disaster in interviews....always has to return to say that is not what he meant and so on.

Now, how bout them COGIC you love to talk about...are they saved or not?


:christmascaroling

[Michael Phelps]

Joel(ambien) Osteen a good Speaker????????????????????????????

UMMMMM guess my opinion is different on that one :christmoose

You're entitled to your opinion, Thad.

Joel doesn't scream and holler, and sweat his shirt down, and jump the back of pews, doesn't shockamoo, and for many died-in-the-wool Apostolics, that constitutes boredom. But, if you listen to what he has to say, you might just find a nugget of truth.

[Michael Phelps]

Thad, in all seriousness, do you know me? You are the one to confirm whether or not I have condemned what he said?

I said he was NICE! Again, that is against your brand of Pentecost. Re-read my posts as I also said there was "plenty he gets wrong" and that I "did not agree with him."

You would have to talk to the guy in person. When I talk to him...he is looking at the ground, staring up at the ceiling, the same well-shucks kind of speech. We are used to preachers being fast on their feet, having the gift of gab and never at a loss for words. Joel is soooo far from that. He can't hardly put two sentences together without a script in front of him. That is why he is a disaster in interviews....always has to return to say that is not what he meant and so on.

Now, how bout them COGIC you love to talk about...are they saved or not?


:christmascaroling

You rock, my man. Excellent post.

[Thad]

Thad, in all seriousness, do you know me? You are the one to confirm whether or not I have condemned what he said?

I said he was NICE! Again, that is against your brand of Pentecost. Re-read my posts as I also said there was "plenty he gets wrong" and that I "did not agree with him."

You would have to talk to the guy in person. When I talk to him...he is looking at the ground, staring up at the ceiling, the same well-shucks kind of speech. We are used to preachers being fast on their feet, having the gift of gab and never at a loss for words. Joel is soooo far from that. He can't hardly put two sentences together without a script in front of him. That is why he is a disaster in interviews....always has to return to say that is not what he meant and so on.

Now, how bout them COGIC you love to talk about...are they saved or not?


:christmascaroling


I said that I,THAD have not heard you condemn some of the Off things he has said - not in this conversation.
why does COGIC keep coming up? we are discussing Joel Osteen's controversial statements not mine

[PastorD]

I imagine Osteen is a nice guy and he evidently has people skills because look at what he has done. He is a very good motivational speaker and I am sure someone might get some therapy by listening to him. His father was quite a speaker. I heard him preach years ago on the radio on the Baptism of the Holy Ghost it was excellent. But to act like it is not the ministry job to stand against anything??????

Agreed Elder . . .

Thad will be so disappointed that I didn't use a pitch fork. :highfive

[Thad]

You're entitled to your opinion, Thad.

Joel doesn't scream and holler, and sweat his shirt down, and jump the back of pews, doesn't shockamoo, and for many died-in-the-wool Apostolics, that constitutes boredom. But, if you listen to what he has to say, you might just find a nugget of truth.


Never said they had to do all that Mike. You are grasping at straws.

I enjoy Dr. Jeremiah's teaching from Southern CA. he's a southern Bapt. no screamer at all

[Thad]

WEll you can always count on the Osteen groupies to show up out of nowhere

[PastorD]

I said that I,THAD have not heard you condemn some of the Off things he has said - not in this conversation.
why does COGIC keep coming up? we are discussing Joel Osteen's controversial statements not mine

Because Thad, when you hold me and the rest of Pentecost accountable.....You have to be accountable yourself.

And, your implication was that because YOU had not heard me condemn him then I must be in favor of it.

[Thad]

Because Thad, when you hold me and the rest of Pentecost accountable.....You have to be accountable yourself.

And, your implication was that because YOU had not heard me condemn him then I must be in favor of it.


:nahnah
:nahnah:

[PastorD]

:nahnah
:nahnah:

ha...I'll take that as Congratulations D, you win!

:penguin

[Thad]

ha...I'll take that as Congratulations D, you win!

:penguin



and just what Prize did you win??
I KNOW I am right about it !!!!:newyear

[Michael Phelps]

Never said they had to do all that Mike. You are grasping at straws.

I enjoy Dr. Jeremiah's teaching from Southern CA. he's a southern Bapt. no screamer at all


Lol, I'm not grasping at straws, Thad, nor did I say you said that was necessary.

I simply said that for many Apostolics, screaming and chest thumping is a sign of the anointing, and many have a hard time focusing on a preacher when he speaks in a monotone.

[jrLA]

You're entitled to your opinion, Thad.

Joel doesn't scream and holler, and sweat his shirt down, and jump the back of pews, doesn't shockamoo, and for many died-in-the-wool Apostolics, that constitutes boredom. But, if you listen to what he has to say, you might just find a nugget of truth.

Well....maybe a small little teeny tiny shred, maybe a smidge sort of kind of...somewhere. lol

Seriously, I have listen to JO and personally, there is little I find to take home. Mostly fluff, and lots of teeth!:heeheehee

[Michael Phelps]

Because Thad, when you hold me and the rest of Pentecost accountable.....You have to be accountable yourself.

And, your implication was that because YOU had not heard me condemn him then I must be in favor of it.

I'm still waiting for Thad to send me the links where JO said he didn't think homosexuality was wrong?

[Michael Phelps]

Well....maybe a small little teeny tiny shred, maybe a smidge sort of kind of...somewhere. lol

Seriously, I have listen to JO and personally, there is little I find to take home. Mostly fluff, and lots of teeth!:heeheehee

The same could be said about many preachers, even some in the UPC.

[Thad]

Lol, I'm not grasping at straws, Thad, nor did I say you said that was necessary.

I simply said that for many Apostolics, screaming and chest thumping is a sign of the anointing, and many have a hard time focusing on a preacher when he speaks in a monotone.


and you wasn't referencing that to me...?? o please :jolly

[PastorD]

The same could be said about many preachers, even some in the UPC.

Careful Mike....Thad is going to ask you to name them. He is slowly working you into the Tab! :jolly

[Michael Phelps]

Careful Mike....Thad is going to ask you to name them. He is slowly working you into the Tab! :jolly

ARGH, every time I think I'm out........they keep pulling me back in!!!!!!!!

I'll just use one of Thad's tactics, and speak in generalities.

[Michael Phelps]

and you wasn't referencing that to me...?? o please :jolly

Don't be so paranoid! You are not alone, grasshopper..........I used to be that way myself, believe it or not!

[jrLA]

The same could be said about many preachers, even some in the UPC.

Not arguing about that! :coffee2

[Michael Phelps]

Not arguing about that! :coffee2

In fact, in the early years of my ministry, I probably WAS one of those preachers!:penguin

[Steve Epley]

I'm still waiting for Thad to send me the links where JO said he didn't think homosexuality was wrong?

I don't think he said that what he said was that God did not call him to preach against homosexuality.

[gearjammer]

Yeah...they even wrote a song about that....


I'm gonna wear a gown, I'm gonna wear a gown,
When the trumpet sounds, when the trumpet sounds,
As soon as my feet strike Zion, lay down my heavy burden....
Somethin' somethin somethin, shout and tell the glad story,
Sit down beside King Jesus, tell Him how I made it over....
.....I shall wear a robe and gown!



I think that's how it goes, right?



:penguin


I believe the line is "wear a robe and CROWN".

[Mrs. LPW]

I think folks would be shocked how many people get the HG there every service. They actually push it pretty strong. None of that ever makes the camera's obviously.

I know one OP based church that grew by 600 last year and the pastor told me that 90% of the people were from Lakewood.

Joel gets many in the door with the smiles and hopefully somewhere in the process they get hungry for more and end up in deeper waters.

I think it's great if people do come in and are led into "deeper waters"... but many are not led further, and this is something that bears discussion.

[Thad]

I think it's great if people do come in and are led into "deeper waters"... but many are not led further, and this is something that bears discussion.

what is there to discuss LPW?

[Mrs. LPW]

It could be because he had 50,000 in 4 services this weekend and we can't get 50,000 in 5 states and 10 services.

:christmoose

a large crowd means ZIP... and we ALL know that... this point is moot.

[Mrs. LPW]

what is there to discuss LPW?

Because of teaching in churches such as JO's... not him only of course... there will be many who are lost.

There is always a huge danger in doctrines of inclusion... Oprah "preaches" the same... Carlton Pearson... all of these people are leading folks into some very false and detrimental doctrine. I think that merits discussion on an Apostolic forum. Nothing wrong with this thread IMO

[Thad]

a large crowd means ZIP... and we ALL know that... this point is moot.



my thoughts exactly. The muslims outnumber all of us does that make them right?

[Thad]

Because of teaching in churches such as JO's... not him only of course... there will be many who are lost.

There is always a huge danger in doctrines of inclusion... Oprah "preaches" the same... Carlton Pearson... all of these people are leading folks into some very false and detrimental doctrine. I think that merits discussion on an Apostolic forum. Nothing wrong with this thread IMO



It's a MAJOR growing trend! the younger generation is slowly accepting it too

I believe that a lot of the Big Names that some Pentecostals defend & admire so much(right here on the forum too) are nothing more then "UNDERCOVER" universalist.

[PastorD]

It's a MAJOR growing trend! the younger generation is slowly accepting it too

I believe a lot of these Big Names that some of our Pentecostals right here on the forum are nothing more then "UNDERCOVER" universalist.

Thad, I wonder if there are any of those in the COGIC?

[Thad]

Thad, I wonder if there are any of those in the COGIC?

why do you keep bringing up COGIC? I'm Not COGIC never have been just go to some of the music related event get over it already Big D

[PastorD]

It's a MAJOR growing trend! the younger generation is slowly accepting it too

I believe a lot of these Big Names that some of our Pentecostals right here on the forum are nothing more then "UNDERCOVER" universalist.

Aside from the fact that your grammer is terrible in this statement....please 'splain' what you mean.

[Thad]

It's a MAJOR growing trend! the younger generation is slowly accepting it too

I believe a lot of these Big Names that some of our Pentecostals right here on the forum are nothing more then "UNDERCOVER" universalist.

Aside from the fact that your grammer is terrible in this statement....please 'splain' what you mean.


Yikes,that was bad!I fixed it. I type and post FAST- no time for editing when you're having fun :jolly

[ChicagoPastor]

It's a MAJOR growing trend! the younger generation is slowly accepting it too

I believe that a lot of the Big Names that some Pentecostals defend & admire so much(right here on the forum too) are nothing more then "UNDERCOVER" universalist.

Tonex must've been right in that interview he gave on "Exalted"
He said that he knows of a lot of universalists that are just scared to admit it.

[SoCaliUPC]

It's a MAJOR growing trend! the younger generation is slowly accepting it too

I believe that a lot of the Big Names that some Pentecostals defend & admire so much(right here on the forum too) are nothing more then "UNDERCOVER" universalist.

Thad...you think the younger generation of the UPC is accepting the doctrine that Pearson puts out there? And some big names as well? Come on....

[SoCaliUPC]

Tonex must've been right in that interview he gave on "Exalted"
He said that he knows of a lot of universalists that are just scared to admit it.

Talk about false doctrine. People need to call it exactly what it is.

[StMark]

Thad...you think the younger generation of the UPC is accepting the doctrine that Pearson puts out there? And some big names as well? Come on....


some EXUPCers for sure - I don't know of any that are still in that believe it

[SoCaliUPC]

some EXUPCers for sure - I don't know of any that are still in that believe it

Ok....I was hoping that is what Thad meant. :christmoose

[TRFrance]

Why do we care what Joel believes?

Never ceases to amaze me that many on here won't give him, or Jakes, or anyone else outside of the ranks the time of day, and yet we post their every move and tear them apart!

If we've already established that they don't have the "truth", why do we continue to act amazed when they say or do something to substantiate our opinion?

I totally agree with you, PastorD, but many on here don't, obviously. I just get tired of the "BREAKING NEWS" that wants to expose the faults of every minister that is outside our ranks. Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

Actually, its not hypocritical at all. Certain men are national figures, whether they represent Acts 2:38 doctrine or not. Jakes, Osteen, Dollar, Hannegraff, Billy Graham, etc... What these men do and say can have a profound effect on American Christendom as a whole. Just think about the effect that the deeds/misdeeds of Swaggart, Bakker, Tilton, Roberts, Bynum/Weeks etc... have had.

So when the leader of of one America's biggest churches thinks that Mormons are saved, it's worth paying attention to. Just as it was noteworthy to hear Jakes say after the death of Pope John Paul:"His Holiness was not only a leader of the Church, but a leader of the world. His life was an example everyone could learn from."
(...just as its newsworthy that Pat Robertson is again making predictions for 2008 (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=11133), even though his 2007 prediction (http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com/2007/01/pat-robertsons-prophecy.html) of a terrorist strike against the US did not come true.)

These are public figures, Apostolic or not. So their public statements (especially the outrageous ones)will always generate interest.

[LordChocolate]

I do believe that there will be a lot of morons saved. What is the problem?