Pentecostal Soundmen

[Scooter]

Who is the best Pentecostal Soundmen?


My vote goes in this order:
Terry Stewart
Ronnie James
Jason Frost (self Proclaimed Pastor of Sound)

[Cindy]

What's a soundman?

[Thad]

scooter, how about Allard and pac west ??? :christmoose

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

What's a soundman?



The guy everyone in a service HATES. The speaker, not enough monitor. The musicians cannot hear.

The audience it sounds garbled.

The webcast- why don't soundmen listen to what they feed?!?!?

We have Bose and Pioneer systems in our cars and house and we rely on scratch, squeel, pop and hiss for our services.





I hate soundmen.

[Scooter]

Thad:
Terry Stewart is by far better for Church settings.

Pac-West is good if you are just pure concert, which I understand you folks from the Merced area are for more of the show/concert type atmosphere than the actual church moving of the Holy Ghost type thing.ha

[philjones]

My vote goes to our music minister, John Mahoney! He can produce the best sound I have ever heard. His sound shaping skills take marginal voices and make them sound excellent.

[Cindy]

oh ok, thank you.

[deltaguitar]

delta soundman is one of the best non technical soundmen I know. He just understands how to put the audience first and not allow those in power to rule him.

[Thad]

Other good soundmen to add to his list - that crazy guy Jeff Langston from pacwest lol

have you heard of a Armando Fullwood from Design 20/20 in North Carolina, not UPC but i hear is a brilliant engineer - does sound for some big church there ??

Also, Eric Williams - heard of him??

[Thad]

Thad:
Terry Stewart is by far better for Church settings.

Pac-West is good if you are just pure concert, which I understand you folks from the Merced area are for more of the show/concert type atmosphere than the actual church moving of the Holy Ghost type thing.ha

nothing further from the church - Does Jealousy reigns in the WD ??

[MrsBOOMM]

The guy everyone in a service HATES. The speaker, not enough monitor. The musicians cannot hear.

The audience it sounds garbled.

The webcast- why don't soundmen listen to what they feed?!?!?

We have Bose and Pioneer systems in our cars and house and we rely on scratch, squeel, pop and hiss for our services.





I hate soundmen.

uh, dear, you may want to use some smilies......

[philjones]

uh, dear, you may want to use some smilies......

WoooHooo, BOOMM just got smacked on the head with a soft back Songs We Sing hymnal! :D

[MrsBOOMM]

WoooHooo, BOOMM just got smacked on the head with a soft back Songs We Sing hymnal! :D


You are funny! We used to have a woman in our church that took it upon herself to throw songbooks at the young people when they weren't singing. Now, that really made them WANT to sit up and sing! My Dad had to have some meaningful dialogue with her a few times......had to edit to add some smilies....:happydance:happydance

[determined]

[QUOTE=Scooter;344498]Who is the best Pentecostal Soundmen?


I could name several who are NOT!



Kevin McManus at First UPC Nashville does a great job

[Thad]

has anyone ever heard of a sound guy from Long Island ,NY ??

I can't remember his name right now - he graduated from IBC and moved to the Bay area for a while. we had him do some work for us- good job BTW
i cannot remember his name right now ......

scooter, do you Brother Deepak??? he's good at sound too and helps us out

[Ann]

His name is Vinnie.......Very nice young man. He did wonders for our sound...until it was messed up again.

[Thad]

His name is Vinnie.......Very nice young man. He did wonders for our sound...until it was messed up again.

Is it messed up again?? been sounding ok to me
course they keep me in those dump lil ear pieces

[Scooter]

Thad,
I know Deepack Shakur haha. tell him i said hello

[anapko]

delta soundman is one of the best non technical soundmen I know. He just understands how to put the audience first and not allow those in power to rule him.

Like duh...delta SOUNDman! Nuff said!

[IBCrazier2]

Its really funny how pretending to turn knobs and a nod or a wave seems to fix things that people ask for!!:banghead

[Thoughts by T]

Pac West just did a concert for me and they were very very good. For the live setting/concert I would go with Pac West. For venues such campmeetings, youth conventions etc I would go with Simon Productions (Terry Stewart). Eric is Terrys assistant Thad. Great guy. One thing about Terry though is he always mikes the drums to loud. He used to tour for TAMA Drums and is very passionate about the kick drum...lol Other than that, he kind of knows how people like it in a church setting. Jeff with packwest is awesome at special effects and will blow your socks off at a concert. And as for Starbucks I would go with a Grande Peppermint White Mocha. (Just thought I would add that)

[AmazingGrace]

I dont know that he has ever been pentecostal but he caters a lot to a lot of pentecostals and was a good friend of ours and I have to say one of the best... Randy Adams.

[RevBuddy]

I'm with BOOM on this...

they just can't ever get it right in service...with all the technology and managing equipment, we still have generally very poor service sound around the country...

Even when they think they have it "right," it's always too low, too loud or too garbled or that proverbial "hum" is there...

Truisms:

Musicians are deaf...they always want the maximum monitor
Speakers are not deaf...but are making us deaf with the extreme sound level
Soundmen are always deaf...to suggestions, to signals from the platform, etc.

As "the poor ye shall have with you always," so it is with "the poor sound ye shall have with you always."

[Apprehended]

All I know about pentecostal sound men is that is the guy you had better bribe if you are a visiting preacher. He holds your preaching career in his hands. If he like you, he knows just how to adjust the monitors, the bass and trebble and just how to make you sound fantastic to yourself and to the audience too making them scramble for your tapes after church.

If that pentecostal soundman does not like you. Forget it. Nobody is going to like hearing you over the PA and you are going to strip your vocal cords out trying to preach. He will never see your uplifted thumb when you try to signal to him to properly adjust the monitors. He will ignore you and make you work your silly self to death.

Musicians and preachers...keep the soundman happy. Maybe a bribe will help...after all, it is your career on the line. :D

[QueenEsther]

The guy everyone in a service HATES. The speaker, not enough monitor. The musicians cannot hear.

The audience it sounds garbled.

The webcast- why don't soundmen listen to what they feed?!?!?

We have Bose and Pioneer systems in our cars and house and we rely on scratch, squeel, pop and hiss for our services.





I hate soundmen.

You need to visit our church - we have awesome sound!!!!

[BHILL]

I dont know that he has ever been pentecostal but he caters a lot to a lot of pentecostals and was a good friend of ours and I have to say one of the best... Randy Adams.

Randy is a very good and EXPENSIVE sound man.He recorded Vanilla Ice's big hit Ice baby or whatever it's called.I've played on about 10 albums that Randy's recorded and he would intimidate me.He was ready to replace you if you made a couple of mistakes.Time is money!he would say.

[Pastor G]

Randy is a very good and EXPENSIVE sound man.He recorded Vanilla Ice's big hit Ice baby or whatever it's called.I've played on about 10 albums that Randy's recorded and he would intimidate me.He was ready to replace you if you made a couple of mistakes.Time is money!he would say.

I agree B. Randy is good and he knows it and does not spare anyones feelings.. Especially Bass players, since Randy used to play for Dallas Holm and a few others... Never heard him play the bass but he talks a good game..

[BHILL]

I agree B. Randy is good and he knows it and does not spare anyones feelings.. Especially Bass players, since Randy used to play for Dallas Holm and a few others... Never heard him play the bass but he talks a good game..

I've never heard him play either but he said he was not good enough to keep playing professionally so he started doing the sound and recording.I play the bass and it took a while before he trusted me.We went to Russia back in the 90's and he went along and ran sound at the concerts.

[MissBrattified]

Its really funny how pretending to turn knobs and a nod or a wave seems to fix things that people ask for!!:banghead

And sometimes those music directors and singers simply don't want to make a scene even though they are quite AWARE that nothing has changed. :penguin

[MissBrattified]

I've never heard him play either but he said he was not good enough to keep playing professionally so he started doing the sound and recording.I play the bass and it took a while before he trusted me.We went to Russia back in the 90's and he went along and ran sound at the concerts.

Just a plug here: BHILL IS THE BEST BASS PLAYER IN PENTECOST. :D

Okay, I'm done now. :coffee2

[Monkeyman]

Just a plug here: BHILL IS THE BEST BASS PLAYER IN PENTECOST. :D

Okay, I'm done now. :coffee2I am SURE he is great....but....I have 2 words for you: Tommy & Brown, nuf said

[MissBrattified]

I am SURE he is great....but....I have 2 words for you: Tommy & Brown, nuf said

Nope. Sorry. BHill is it. :christmoose Tommy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdhLuM1zVt0) who?

[Monkeyman]

Nope. Sorry. BHill is it. :christmoose Tommy who?
You can find him at "Bass Player Magazine", Shirley Caeser, Every big black gospel event, Alembic Bass company, and of course, CLC...trust me on this.

[MissBrattified]

You can find him at "Bass Player Magazine", Shirley Caeser, Every big black gospel event, Alembic Bass company, and of course, CLC...trust me on this.

Monkeyman, dear, let me educate you: Exposure and publicity and public performances do not the "best" bass player make. Some of the best musicians in Pentecost are also the best kept secrets. :coffee2

Larry Carter was one of the BEST guitar players in Pentecost back when he was basically undiscovered. I remember the first year he played at IBC Music Fest. It was total snobbery at first, while the little country boy took the stage. But LC had been playing for local churches and recordings for years before he was *discovered* by the UPCI music culture.

Obviously Tommy Brown is realllllllly good. I agree with you on that. :)

[AmazingGrace]

I agree B. Randy is good and he knows it and does not spare anyones feelings.. Especially Bass players, since Randy used to play for Dallas Holm and a few others... Never heard him play the bass but he talks a good game..

I guess thats a side of Randy we never saw. He did the sound for our church for 2 yrs after my dad had a major surgery that ended up with him nearly dying. We had lost our sound and he did it at no charge and was just a great all around person. He is still a friend of our families and a great person and yes he can play bass and very well also. He played a few times when our bass player was out also.

[philjones]

Monkeyman, dear, let me educate you: Exposure and publicity and public performances do not the "best" bass player make. Some of the best musicians in Pentecost are also the best kept secrets. :coffee2

Larry Carter was one of the BEST guitar players in Pentecost back when he was basically undiscovered. I remember the first year he played at IBC Music Fest. It was total snobbery at first, while the little country boy took the stage. But LC had been playing for local churches and recordings for years before he was *discovered* by the UPCI music culture.

Obviously Tommy Brown is realllllllly good. I agree with you on that. :)

Let me see.... James Owens comes to mind along with a few others... Fact is we, in Pentecost, are blessed with some of the greatest Tobias toting bass players in the world. I am not sure about this BHill person.... other than Miss B and her family, most great things came OUT of Oklahoma! :D

[AmazingGrace]

Let me see.... James Owens comes to mind along with a few others... Fact is we, in Pentecost, are blessed with some of the greatest Tobias toting bass players in the world. I am not sure about this BHill person.... other than Miss B and her family, most great things came OUT of Oklahoma! :D

Amen and Glory!!! Its a blessing to be OUT of Ok!

[MissBrattified]

Let me see.... James Owens comes to mind along with a few others... Fact is we, in Pentecost, are blessed with some of the greatest Tobias toting bass players in the world. I am not sure about this BHill person.... other than Miss B and her family, most great things came OUT of Oklahoma! :D

Well, there are lots of great musicians. :) I'm just pointing out that simply being well-known is not the biggest factor. TB is definitely pretty awesome.

LOL...well, we went INTO Oklahoma. Self-destructive? :D

[philjones]

Well, there are lots of great musicians. :) I'm just pointing out that simply being well-known is not the biggest factor. TB is definitely pretty awesome.

LOL...well, we went INTO Oklahoma. Self-destructive? :D

Even Oklahoma deserves a touch of class and with AG and me gone... ya'll are their only hope! :D

[MissBrattified]

Even Oklahoma deserves a touch of class and with AG and me gone... ya'll are their only hope! :D

Class? Dunno about that...Jeff loves bluegrass. ;) (And I have a not-so-secret affinity for Allison Krauss) Is that really classy?

As for soundmen: Good soundmen know their job and do it well, AND they need to know how to work with, not against, singers and musicians. Most singers simply want to be heard, and to hear themselves. It isn't narcissism--it's a necessity, or you'll go flat, and the audience will hear muddled lyrics under the din of music. When I sing, I feel that it is for the purpose of putting forth a message of some sort, even a sermon, and I want it to be heard, or else why should I even sing? (Obviously outside of singing with the congregation or singing directly to God, which everyone should do! In the shower is a great place to let the music SOAR!)

I do recognize that things can get out of hand, and get reallllllly loud, if not kept in check, but everyone really has to work on that, and the sound man is hurting everyone and the church service if his frustrated response is to indecorously turn everything down to a whisper.

Additionally, some people are put in charge of sound who don't really know the job, but they're just the one available on Sunday morning. *sigh* Even worse, some seem to enjoy their "power" over the musicians and singers, and seem to take pleasure in causing frustration, and spend way too much time complaining about busted eardrums, when in fact a *hot* mic insures I will NOT scream my lyrics, but will sing them instead.

Okay. I've vented enough, even though I sure enough have more to say. :D

[Monkeyman]

Monkeyman, dear, let me educate you: Exposure and publicity and public performances do not the "best" bass player make. Some of the best musicians in Pentecost are also the best kept secrets. :coffee2

Larry Carter was one of the BEST guitar players in Pentecost back when he was basically undiscovered. I remember the first year he played at IBC Music Fest. It was total snobbery at first, while the little country boy took the stage. But LC had been playing for local churches and recordings for years before he was *discovered* by the UPCI music culture.

Obviously Tommy Brown is realllllllly good. I agree with you on that. :)You're funny, lol. Of course I didn't say because of his noteriety he was better, I addressed your, "Tommy Who" comment, explaining who the "who" was.

So...in apostolic musician circles it is well known about TB skills as a bass player. Of course there are many unknowns, I have one here at my church.

J.O., as Phil stated is one of the best...but he is known for his band leadership, co-ordinating, and his "in-the-pocket" style.
Tommy is a maestro, from backing, recordiing, LIVE, and advanced technical skills. Trust me, no one gets into Bass player Magazine by being average. Alembic bass company doesn't endore everyone. If you ask the Tobias players out there, (I am one), they will tell you to a person of Tommy's legend. I will leave it at that...from Fred Hammond to Joel Smith to Andre Gauche, they will tell you he is da man in OUR circles. If I have to explain "who" they are...then lets just drop it, he he!!!!

Here is a quote ftom your Larry Carter..."Tommy Brown is above most bass players" check it out at www.TommyBrownproductions.com

[MissBrattified]

You're funny, lol. Of course I didn't say because of his noteriety he was better, I addressed your, "Tommy Who" comment, explaining who the "who" was.

So...in apostolic musician circles it is well known about TB skills as a bass player. Of course there are many unknowns, I have one here at my church.

J.O., as Phil stated is one of the best...but he is known for his band leadership, co-ordinating, and his "in-the-pocket" style.
Tommy is a maestro, from backing, recordiing, LIVE, and advanced technical skills. Trust me, no one gets into Bass player Magazine by being average. Alembic bass company doesn't endore everyone. If you ask the Tobias players out there, (I am one), they will tell you to a person of Tommy's legend. I will leave it at that...from Fred Hammond to Joel Smith to Andre Gauche, they will tell you he is da man in OUR circles. If I have to explain "who" they are...then lets just drop it, he he!!!!

I believe you. Promise. Cross my heart. :newyear

[Pastor G]

Nope. Sorry. BHill is it. :christmoose Tommy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdhLuM1zVt0) who?

B. Hill is very good.. I have played drums with him on many occasions.. He is as solid as a rock.. Tommy Brown is also very good, never had the opportunity to play with him but have heard him several times..

[Monkeyman]

B. Hill is very good.. I have played drums with him on many occasions.. He is as solid as a rock.. Tommy Brown is also very good, never had the opportunity to play with him but have heard him several times..I would love to hear him...solid is a rare breed now days. Cats try to show all they know in one song...and can become full of themselves too. This guy sounds like he is a good dude!

My cuz plays drums with TB every week...loves it!

[IBCrazier2]

Class? Dunno about that...Jeff loves bluegrass. ;) (And I have a not-so-secret affinity for Allison Krauss) Is that really classy?

As for soundmen: Good soundmen know their job and do it well, AND they need to know how to work with, not against, singers and musicians. Most singers simply want to be heard, and to hear themselves. It isn't narcissism--it's a necessity, or you'll go flat, and the audience will hear muddled lyrics under the din of music. When I sing, I feel that it is for the purpose of putting forth a message of some sort, even a sermon, and I want it to be heard, or else why should I even sing? (Obviously outside of singing with the congregation or singing directly to God, which everyone should do! In the shower is a great place to let the music SOAR!)

I do recognize that things can get out of hand, and get reallllllly loud, if not kept in check, but everyone really has to work on that, and the sound man is hurting everyone and the church service if his frustrated response is to indecorously turn everything down to a whisper.

Additionally, some people are put in charge of sound who don't really know the job, but they're just the one available on Sunday morning. *sigh* Even worse, some seem to enjoy their "power" over the musicians and singers, and seem to take pleasure in causing frustration, and spend way too much time complaining about busted eardrums, when in fact a *hot* mic insures I will NOT scream my lyrics, but will sing them instead.

Okay. I've vented enough, even though I sure enough have more to say. :D



LOL .... you have some very valid points, but you have to allow for some validity on the other side of things as well.:Nhl_check

I probably will spend some time in purgatory over the results of spending time in a soundroom :praying

Of being in the soundbooth for several years, I don't recall ever telling a musician how to do their job. But can remember very few times remember not being told how to do mine.

It is funny how I had a musician/choir director who would move the choir mic everytime they got on the platform. Makes you wonder that if you can't hear the altos in the choir when you are standing within 7 feet of them if you are doing your job in co-ordinating a group of singers. ** just for the record~moving a condenser(choir) mic 6-12 inches really doesn't pick up any extra**.

In our church we tried 6 different monitors for the keyboardist, and none could be heard. Finally pastor said turn it up and don't worry about the rest of the church. The Musician then started turning the moniter facing a different direction saying it hurt her ears when it was facing her ... lol ... and then complained because she couldn't hear it because it was facing someplace else.

Can't we just all get along!!

I for one have ran the sound 90% of the time as my "ministry", and viewed it as one of the 3 important factors of a service .... yes we need preaching, yes we need music and singing, but we need to be able to hear clearly the preaching and music. Yes it is possible for a soundman/woman to ruin a service and affect everyone! But it is possible for them to make the service sound smooth and clear.

I think every knows that people are put in this position that don't even need to adjust the radio. When will churches and pastors realize that there are classes and books and training that can happen. My pastor has asked multiple times for me to train someone to be a replacement ... everyone that I suggested could not be in the soundroom because they were "worshippers" and needed to be in the service. I agree, but also the people that are not worshippers could care less about giving their all to make the service sound good.

:itsover

[dizzyde]

Class? Dunno about that...Jeff loves bluegrass. ;) (And I have a not-so-secret affinity for Allison Krauss) Is that really classy?



Definitely!! You just went up a step in my estimation at least! If that means anything!! LOL!

[dizzyde]

Truisms:

Musicians are deaf...they always want the maximum monitor
Speakers are not deaf...but are making us deaf with the extreme sound level
Soundmen are always deaf...to suggestions, to signals from the platform, etc.

As "the poor ye shall have with you always," so it is with "the poor sound ye shall have with you always."

Can't we just all get along!!

I for one have ran the sound 90% of the time as my "ministry", and viewed it as one of the 3 important factors of a service .... yes we need preaching, yes we need music and singing, but we need to be able to hear clearly the preaching and music. Yes it is possible for a soundman/woman to ruin a service and affect everyone! But it is possible for them to make the service sound smooth and clear.

:itsover

These are my issues, I completely realize that the job of a soundman is completely thankless, however, why is it that this job tends to attract people with control issues?

Ultimately, a lot of the time, the final say in how the music is recieved or the message is heard in a church service is in the sound guys hands. (Outside of God, of course)

It does not matter how long the music dept. has practiced, how much time has been invested in preparing for a service, if a sound guy is not cooperating, it can all be ruined. And I see them not cooperating, a LOT!

Even if they are really good, if they are on a power trip, it is a shame. I was in the media booth one service when the pastor was trying to communicate with one of sound guys at our church via the phone from the platform, and overheard him telling another guy, "yeah that's why I don't pick up the phone when they call back here"! That kind of attitude is just horrible.

[BHILL]

B. Hill is very good.. I have played drums with him on many occasions.. He is as solid as a rock.. Tommy Brown is also very good, never had the opportunity to play with him but have heard him several times..

WHO ARE YOU ??? PM please

[BHILL]

You're funny, lol. Of course I didn't say because of his noteriety he was better, I addressed your, "Tommy Who" comment, explaining who the "who" was.

So...in apostolic musician circles it is well known about TB skills as a bass player. Of course there are many unknowns, I have one here at my church.

J.O., as Phil stated is one of the best...but he is known for his band leadership, co-ordinating, and his "in-the-pocket" style.
Tommy is a maestro, from backing, recordiing, LIVE, and advanced technical skills. Trust me, no one gets into Bass player Magazine by being average. Alembic bass company doesn't endore everyone. If you ask the Tobias players out there, (I am one), they will tell you to a person of Tommy's legend. I will leave it at that...from Fred Hammond to Joel Smith to Andre Gauche, they will tell you he is da man in OUR circles. If I have to explain "who" they are...then lets just drop it, he he!!!!

Here is a quote ftom your Larry Carter..."Tommy Brown is above most bass players" check it out at www.TommyBrownproductions.com

Tommy Brown is one of the best I've ever heard. The bass is no longer the most important thing in my life,like it was 10-20 years ago.I'm more concerned about my kids,my business,teaching our Sunday school class,etc.Doesn't leave much time for music.It would be neat to do it full time.

[Monkeyman]

Tommy Brown is one of the best I've ever heard. The bass is no longer the most important thing in my life,like it was 10-20 years ago.I'm more concerned about my kids,my business,teaching our Sunday school class,etc.Doesn't leave much time for music.It would be neat to do it full time.Brother, don't put that bass down!!! You need to pass on what you know and more importantly what it means to be a "musician". A lot of the young guys are forgetting, or, they never knew. Sad.

What is your rig?

PM me any recordings, I would love to hear ya!!!

[MissBrattified]

Tommy Brown is one of the best I've ever heard. The bass is no longer the most important thing in my life,like it was 10-20 years ago.I'm more concerned about my kids,my business,teaching our Sunday school class,etc.Doesn't leave much time for music.It would be neat to do it full time.

I can arrange for more practice time, if need be. :evilglee

[Lovemy2]

Ever heard of Gary Howard?????

[embonpoint]

Ever heard of Gary Howard?????

The sound man or the pastor?

[Lovemy2]

The sound man or the pastor?

The Sound man, son of the pastor.

[Consapostolic1]

The Sound man, son of the pastor.

He's the one that did our new sound system

[Consapostolic1]

Good grief, I finally post something and then the thread dies.

[AmazingGrace]

Good grief, I finally post something and then the thread dies.

Get used to it... happens often around here... most of all dont take it personal LOL:reaction

[delta soundman]

First things first. IMO!!! My first responsibility is to the people of the church. THE PEOPLE!!!! Not the preacher, not the choir director, not the keyboard player, THE PEOPLE!!!!. That being said, I know what you are thinking, "how can you take care of the congregation if you don't take care of the platform first?" The platform needs to understand they are there for the people as well. No be in from of people doing your best American Idol routine. I believe in quality over quantity. If you have good quality the quantity will come too. I do not like feedback (the ringing kind) or roars. If you are a singer or musician and your selfishness is taking away from the quality then we have a problem.

I have been in churches where they had out ear plugs to people who complain. That is crazy!!! Get the sound right and you won't run people out. My services run anywhere from 95db to 102db when things are jumping. It's not piercing or annoying because there is an understanding. The people come first. Trust the soundman to put you out there the best he can. In the end he will be blamed no matter what so let him do the job no strings attached. I can't stand people who think the soundman is their personal knob turner to make them sound like Celine Dion or Yanni on the keyboard. It's church people not a flipping concert. Get your heart where it needs to be and let the soundman handle the rest.

[delta soundman]

Hmmmm, is that crickets I hear???

[Timmy]

I can't hear a thing!

[IBCrazier2]

First things first. IMO!!! My first responsibility is to the people of the church. THE PEOPLE!!!! Not the preacher, not the choir director, not the keyboard player, THE PEOPLE!!!!. That being said, I know what you are thinking, "how can you take care of the congregation if you don't take care of the platform first?" The platform needs to understand they are there for the people as well. No be in from of people doing your best American Idol routine. I believe in quality over quantity. If you have good quality the quantity will come too. I do not like feedback (the ringing kind) or roars. If you are a singer or musician and your selfishness is taking away from the quality then we have a problem.

I have been in churches where they had out ear plugs to people who complain. That is crazy!!! Get the sound right and you won't run people out. My services run anywhere from 95db to 102db when things are jumping. It's not piercing or annoying because there is an understanding. The people come first. Trust the soundman to put you out there the best he can. In the end he will be blamed no matter what so let him do the job no strings attached. I can't stand people who think the soundman is their personal knob turner to make them sound like Celine Dion or Yanni on the keyboard. It's church people not a flipping concert. Get your heart where it needs to be and let the soundman handle the rest.

:clap:clap:hanky:hanky

[MissBrattified]

First things first. IMO!!! My first responsibility is to the people of the church. THE PEOPLE!!!! Not the preacher, not the choir director, not the keyboard player, THE PEOPLE!!!!. That being said, I know what you are thinking, "how can you take care of the congregation if you don't take care of the platform first?" The platform needs to understand they are there for the people as well. No be in from of people doing your best American Idol routine. I believe in quality over quantity. If you have good quality the quantity will come too. I do not like feedback (the ringing kind) or roars. If you are a singer or musician and your selfishness is taking away from the quality then we have a problem.

Delta, you sound a bit defensive. :) Look, the pastor and music dept. members are "people", too, and sound men do have a responsibility to everyone. Your responsibility is dual, to make the sound (of the preacher/speaker/singer/musician) as good as it can possibly be, and in so doing, you please the people by making sure everything is heard in good quality without busting their eardrums or making them endure roars, squeaks, etc.

I have been in churches where they had out ear plugs to people who complain. That is crazy!!! Get the sound right and you won't run people out.

This isn't always true. There are some people who are simply complainers and are never satisfied. I have been a pastor's daughter for 31 years and a music director for 10 years, and I can tell you that is a fact. Get it right, get it perfect, have it at just the right level, and someone will still probably complain that it is too loud. It's the nature of the bea...er...the people. :D

My services run anywhere from 95db to 102db when things are jumping. It's not piercing or annoying because there is an understanding. The people come first. Trust the soundman to put you out there the best he can. In the end he will be blamed no matter what so let him do the job no strings attached. I can't stand people who think the soundman is their personal knob turner to make them sound like Celine Dion or Yanni on the keyboard. It's church people not a flipping concert. Get your heart where it needs to be and let the soundman handle the rest.

Usually if there is a problem with the singers and musicians not being able to hear themselves, it has to do with a sound man not knowing how to implement monitors. I don't care how low you turn me in the audience (assuming I can still be clearly heard), as long as I can hear myself on the platform. Unless churches go back to purely acoustic music and singing, then it is nearly impossible to hear yourself speak/sing without a proper monitor feeding the sound back to you. I'm sure you understand that.

Our sound man is my personal knob turner. :) He makes me sound as good as I possibly can, and I appreciate it. There ARE sound men who are difficult to work with, and when they are asked to add effects or turn up the monitor, they huff and puff and display an attitude that presents their own "heart" problem. The truth is, music and sound go hand in hand, they cannot really be separated, so it needs to be teamwork, not "let me do my job and leave me alone."

Of course, if our sound man says, "Please turn the keyboard down", then my response is usually, "I'm sorry" and I turn it down. There can be bad attitudes on either side, OR their can be teamwork amongst departments which makes everything go smoothly.

No, its not a *concert*, but with the technology there is, if the musicians are on point and the singers are good, there's no reason for it to not be on par with the excellence you would find at a concert--without the concert atmosphere.

Sorry if this thread has stressed you out, ds. :reaction

My theory is, if one person is consistently complaining, either from the platform, pew or the soundbooth, it may be their problem, BUT if lots of the PEOPLE are complaining, it may truly be too loud, OR if lots of the singers/musicians are complaining, it MAY be the sound man. ;)

[Monkeyman]

The answer is to get an Aviom system with wireless headsets and let the platform folk mix themselves. Each person has a 12 channel mix. I am still trying to convince my music pastor of this, lol!

This way, you get no monitor volume at all. You will have to get "butt-kickers" for your drummer and bass player.

www.aviom.com

[MissBrattified]

The answer is to get an Aviom system with wireless headsets and let the platform folk mix themselves. Each person has a 12 channel mix. I am still trying to convince my music pastor of this, lol!

This way, you get no monitor volume at all. You will have to get "butt-kickers" for your drummer and bass player.

That would be great!!!! I would love it if we had that capability at our church. ...what are the butt-kickers?

[Monkeyman]

A lot of mid-large churches are now using these, and every major christian artist uses them as well at their concerts. it so easy, you plug in 1 cat 5 cable (ethernet)between the stage and soundroom, and viola, instant personal monitor mixing!!!

[Monkeyman]

Butt-kickers are platforms embeded with low end bass that the musician sits on when he/she plays. If you are wearing earpieces, you don't have the "room" bass sound so there is no low-end and you lose your "groove". The "butt-kicker" allows the musician to feel the low end and continue to stay in the pocket of the song.

[IBCrazier2]

This is the mrs ibcrazier,
I have been in the platform side and the soundbooth side or media
when it all comes down to it the main and only reason that there are attitudes is because both sides have to be prayed through enough outside of the regular services....to be able to focus on the service and be a minstry during the service....NOT fighting with each other.


When this happens and everyone is submissive and has a humble heart there will be peace in the ranks.

If the music and the sound both realize they need each other then all would be well. People who are BIG attitudes should be set down for a while so thye can be mistered to.

****ALL THE ABOVE COMMENTS AND COMENTARY IS NOT A REFLECTION OF THE MR. IBCRAZIER ******

[Hoovie]

Butt-kickers are platforms embeded with low end bass that the musician sits on when he/she plays. If you are wearing earpieces, you don't have the "room" bass sound so there is no low-end and you lose your "groove". The "butt-kicker" allows the musician to feel the low end and continue to stay in the pocket of the song.

:toofunny And I thought....

[MissBrattified]

This is the mrs ibcrazier,
I have been in the platform side and the soundbooth side or media
when it all comes down to it the main and only reason that there are attitudes is because both sides have to be prayed through enough outside of the regular services....to be able to focus on the service and be a minstry during the service....NOT fighting with each other.

I agree with that. :) That's just true in general...when the focus is on the service as a whole, and not on "my little kingdom", then things will simply go better. However, there have been times when I have been prayed up and STILL really aggravated at the sound guy simply because he was frustrating. Maybe HE wasn't prayed up. LOL!!!


People who are BIG attitudes should be set down for a while so thye can be mistered to.

I totally agree...I'm just pointing out that BIG attitudes can come from the sound booth just as much as the platform. :coffee2

[IBCrazier2]

The more I think about it ... the more the Church of Christ may have something here!!:happydance:happydance

[gaaspul]

Terry Stewart's pretty good on the drums too...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZELKU0Sg4dM

[Scooter]

Brian Allard Is The Best Soundman Ever! Period!

[Carpenter]

I left the board one time to go pray at the altar and let me tell you the unholy hades fire I got from the platform because someone or another needed more volume or effects in order for the Holy Ghost to move...imagine that!

:D :D :D

[ehudslefthand]

:drama Hello,

I read this and said, what is wrong with this picture? well i see alot of complaining about soundmen, with not knowledge of sound or its equipment.

Most soundmen are not so bad, we have deal with things such as vocalists who cannot project their voice into the microphone and / or they hold the microphone to far away from their mouth and then they want more monitor, this causes that infamous low hum, its called feed back, the microphone is picking up the monitors more than the voice.

Then you have that preacher who cannot hold the microphone close enough to his mouth when he is preaching not so loud, causes the same effect, then when they get real loud they put the microphone down their throats causing distortion :reaction

Why is this? this is because most people on the platform do not undertsand sound, then we have this other condition in the churches which is small platforms or platforms to close to the congregation. when the worship starts and people start praising the sound usually washes over the monitors, then you get these vacalists whom panic and try to force their voice into the microphone thinking it is going to make the monitors louder, all that does is kick the compressor in more, which is a lovely machine that keeps the volume at e certain level or keeps the high down so you can turn up the volume to pick up the lows noises better, but this creates a problem as such the machine will squash that loudness down or the vocalist voice starts to distort.:drama

And this gets better you see then you have the piano or organ player that cannot hear anything and turns the piano up full blast and that distorts through the system and washes over the monitors on the platform.:tissue

So you see it is not just the sound mans fualt, there are other problems such as church budgets , and church secretaries whom think they know more than the sound man and they go cheap on the system which is where you get the crackles and the popping sounds is from either cheap or worn out cabling. or even they make a sound man purchase cheap microphones, cheap speakers. cheap amps, cheap sound board, cheap cabling and cheap wireless mics, Etc. you shouldn't go cheap on the house of God in the first place.:roseglasses

Also you have most people in general whom do not know mic edicate and are either to far ( causes feed back) or to close ( causes distortion) Most soundmen will turn down the ones that cannot hold a mic close to their mouths, this problem the vocalist does not understand nor will listen to the sound man/ woman and as such this causes feedback and the only way to get rid of feedback is to turn the volume down first the try to eq it out. which usualy fixes the problem, but these vocalists or musicians get offended at the sound man and think he is being carnal. :lalala

Then you have the preacher or vocalist that wants to roam with the mics and they either get to close to a speaker or monitor, these people have no isea about electro magnets nor polarity of said such and that causes feed back which the sound mans only recourse is to turn it down on the monitor first then the mains, Live sound is difficult enough and then add the human factor.

and then those that do not pray, that another problem before a service most musicians and singers or soundmen/ women do not pray before a service and this is a problem in pentecost. :spirit

So folks before we bash the soundmen/ women lets try to remember one thing, what can we do to make the soundmans/ womans job easier.

That my tens bucks worth :bolt

[ehudslefthand]

I left the board one time to go pray at the altar and let me tell you the unholy hades fire I got from the platform because someone or another needed more volume or effects in order for the Holy Ghost to move...imagine that!

:D :D :D

I have been through that alot, i told Pastor about it one day and he said " don't worry bout it just go and pray" so i just leave the musicians on with what ever they had on when i got up, and if they do not like it i cannot help that, my soul is worth more than the Job in the church

In Christ

David

[Carpenter]

Blah blah blah...


I just got sick of seeing the gay upc minister on the preview page...


Carry on.

[Blaylock]

I had the absolute pleasure of taking a few lessons from Brian Hill back in the days at IBC. He is one of the most under appreciated bass players in Pentecost. The man is a beast on the bass and on the football field.

[ReformedDave]

Tim Newstrand is da man!

[Carpenter]

Blah blah blah...


I just got sick of seeing the gay upc minister on the preview page...


Carry on.

bump...

[unitedpraise10]

The answer is to get an Aviom system with wireless headsets and let the platform folk mix themselves. Each person has a 12 channel mix. I am still trying to convince my music pastor of this, lol!

This way, you get no monitor volume at all. You will have to get "butt-kickers" for your drummer and bass player.

www.aviom.com

We've had the Aviom system in our church now for 7 years. It was the best investment we had ever made. It completely changed the sound as a whole in our, at the time, new sanctuary.

[scotty]

I only have two problems in my church.

1. The vocalist wont control the volume themselves. If they would all agree that on loud notes, pull the mic away and then pull it back to them we would be fine, I wouldn't spend the whole song trying to adjust them myself back and forth.

2. COMMUNICATION ! Don't send me a signal once to change something then when i dont change it enough or too much , you just get mad and say "forget it" . Tell me what you need and I will accomodate you, I need to know what you want and fix it right.

Also, Im not one of those who think I know it all, so dont feel like your going to hurt my feelings, tell me what needs to be done so we all can be happy .

[Azzan]

Scotty, can you invest in some limiters or compressors? They'll take that load off your hands.

[Praxeas]

I only have two problems in my church.

1. The vocalist wont control the volume themselves. If they would all agree that on loud notes, pull the mic away and then pull it back to them we would be fine, I wouldn't spend the whole song trying to adjust them myself back and forth.

2. COMMUNICATION ! Don't send me a signal once to change something then when i dont change it enough or too much , you just get mad and say "forget it" . Tell me what you need and I will accomodate you, I need to know what you want and fix it right.

Also, Im not one of those who think I know it all, so dont feel like your going to hurt my feelings, tell me what needs to be done so we all can be happy .
Been there, done that. Oh and Miss singer? You might think your voice is so divine that we need to max out the sound, but our ears say a different story. Just let us handle it

[Praxeas]

My big beef is with people who start the service off barely whispering so I turn them up and all of a sudden they decide to stop lip synching

[CC1]

Scotty, can you invest in some limiters or compressors? They'll take that load off your hands.

My thoughts exactly. Every good sound man I have ever been around HATES it when the singers try to control they volume themselves by moving the microphone closer and further away. I was pretty surprised to read this guy wanted his to do that.

For good sound multiple compressors is a MUST. You need compressors on each of the main vocal tracks, one on the preachrs mic (probably with a gate also), and at least one for the choir mics to feed through.

Even a small church with a limited budge ought to have at least one compressor for the preachers mic and if possible one for each of the lead vocalists.

[Carpenter]

At our church you could hold up a match to the speaker, and by God it would light!

The mints counter guy got in trouble for selling ear plugs along with tic tacs before service. :happydance

[CC1]

At our church you could hold up a match to the speaker, and by God it would light!

The mints counter guy got in trouble for selling ear plugs along with tic tacs before service. :happydance

I can't stand screamers with the PA cranked up. I will get up and walk out of one of those places because the only think I am going to get out of the service is a headache.

I have a wide range of tolerance for bad sound but the 200 decibal sound blast is beyond that.

I will never forget about 25 years ago taking some UPC relatives to visit the home missions church just started in the town I lived in by a semi famous screaming UPC preacher. He had a small space in a strip mall with about 40 folding chairs set up. He also had a PA system with huge speakers for those 40 chairs he was no more than 10 feet from.

When he started screaming.....er....preaching I thought the skin was going to peel back from my face. Within five minutes my head was pounding but I was too polite to leave since I was one of about 20 people there.

[Carpenter]

When he started screaming.....er....preaching I thought the skin was going to peel back from my face. Within five minutes my head was pounding but I was too polite to leave since I was one of about 20 people there.

:toofunny:toofunny:hanky

[Azzan]

Talk about overkill!

I hated when I had to run sound for 'screamers'.

[ImThankful]

I dont know about the best but I do know the worst..We have him. Hes about 80 yrs old and cant hear..Never pays attention to anything we say but Pastor doesnt want to hurt him by taking him out. He sits there and stares into space. When is it ok to say Ok, Im sorry but your just too old. We have great musicians and singers but this soundman is ruining it .

[CC1]

I dont know about the best but I do know the worst..We have him. Hes about 80 yrs old and cant hear..Never pays attention to anything we say but Pastor doesnt want to hurt him by taking him out. He sits there and stares into space. When is it ok to say Ok, Im sorry but your just too old. We have great musicians and singers but this soundman is ruining it .

It is a mismanagement of the churches ministry to allow someone no longer able to do an important task that affects everybody's worship exerience to continue in their role.

If that man is truly kingdom minded he will not mind stepping back for someone else to do the job. He could be given a great big thank you and some token of honor for his service but retired from that job.

When I had employees firing one was the most difficult thing I ever had to do. However what gave me the courage to do it was that I only fired somebody if their actions were jeppardizing all of the employees livelihood. That is in essence what is going on with this sound guy.

[Azzan]

I totally agree! The sound man/person? is a key position. It can make or break a service.

I had to "demote" a guy once after it became apparent that he was not capable of running a board for a complex service (choir, instruments, etc).

I discovered the problem when I observed him (we knew there was a problem, we just didn't know why). When it came time for a solo, he was opening up *ALL* the hand mic channels and then queueing them one by one in the headphones and then turning them down one by one until he found the right mic. When I asked why he just didn't turn up the needed channel, it turned out that he was color blind and was unable to "see" (colored wind screens) which mic was being used.

So I gave gave him Bible study services where we normally just used the pulpit mic.

[unitedpraise10]

We are very blessed at our church with awesome soundmen and a great sound system. Our church is large, so everything is through the system. The organ lesli is backstage, which cuts down on stage volume, and the drums are soundproofed. We have 5 Avioms.....1 for each instrument. We also have several different mixes going at once. We currently 2 mixes on the platform (praise team/choir mix, and pulpit mix) plus the 5 individual personal Aviom mixes. In the house we have two mixes, soon to be 4 mixes. Right now we have the main house mix, and a front fill mix (which is for the alter area). Later on, we plan on adding an under balcony mix and an above balcony mix. We also have two large subs. I don't think they are on their own mix....not sure how they tie in. We have pretty great sound nonetheless.

With all that being said, I don't ever remember hearing out system squeal or distort. We've been in our new building now for 7 years, and it hasn't happened yet. I know I'm bragging...lol.

Let me say, Aviom or the Roland personal monitor mix system is the key to decent sound. Even if you have a lousy soundman. We did not have Aviom in our old building, and we were forever having sound difficulties.....mainly because of to much platform sound. It got rather loud on that platform. When we moved into the new building it was a huge huge difference. So if you could at all invest in this system, it will save you a whole lot of headache. They are expensive, but worth it. I think we spent around $7,000-$8,000 on our Aviom system alone. We spent around $65,000 on the complete package.