+++Very, Very Odd...Have you noticed this?+++

[Thoughts by T]

This thread might get deleted, but I am going to post it.

If you will look at the list of names on the committees for the World Wide Pentecostal Fellowship at this link, http://www.worldwidepf.com/page.php?ID=6 , you will notice that none of the names on here (and correct me if I am wrong) are African American, Hispanic, or Asian...... WOW. Is this odd or is it just me? All of the preachers on this committee are either still UPC or have recently just dropped their licence. Whats going on? Has anybody else noticed this?

[Praxeas]

How do you tell african american names from others? How about Johnson or King? You're probably right though...just another good old boys club...sigh

[Thoughts by T]

Sorry, I meant to say people not names. King and Johnson are both white.

[Weary Pilgrim]

This thread might get deleted, but I am going to post it.

If you will look at the list of names on the committees for the World Wide Pentecostal Fellowship at this link, http://www.worldwidepf.com/page.php?ID=6 , you will notice that none of the names on here (and correct me if I am wrong) are African American, Hispanic, or Asian...... WOW. Is this odd or is it just me? All of the preachers on this committee are either still UPC or have recently just dropped their licence. Whats going on? Has anybody else noticed this?

What's the implication? Racism?

[Cindy]

Hello, Martin Luther King Jr. was African American. Sis. Willie Johnson the evangelist was African American. You can't tell peoples race by their names. And in our horrible history of slavery the slaves often had the names of their owners.

[Michael Phelps]

Hello, Martin Luther King Jr. was African American. Sis. Willie Johnson the evangelist was African American. You can't tell peoples race by their names. And in our horrible history of slavery the slaves often had the names of their owners.

I think he meant that he personally knows the ministers on this list named Johnson and King, and knows that they are white - not that the name itself is solely dedicated to one race or another.

[Jekyll]

This thread might get deleted, but I am going to post it.

If you will look at the list of names on the committees for the World Wide Pentecostal Fellowship at this link, http://www.worldwidepf.com/page.php?ID=6 , you will notice that none of the names on here (and correct me if I am wrong) are African American, Hispanic, or Asian...... WOW. Is this odd or is it just me? All of the preachers on this committee are either still UPC or have recently just dropped their licence. Whats going on? Has anybody else noticed this?


And how many have been asked? How many should be asked? What percentage should there be? How many should they be required to interview?

How do you tell african american names from others? How about Johnson or King? You're probably right though...just another good old boys club...sigh

And you, Prax, fall for this nonsense?

Just when you think you've have heard it all.

[Apprehended]

This thread might get deleted, but I am going to post it.

If you will look at the list of names on the committees for the World Wide Pentecostal Fellowship at this link, http://www.worldwidepf.com/page.php?ID=6 , you will notice that none of the names on here (and correct me if I am wrong) are African American, Hispanic, or Asian...... WOW. Is this odd or is it just me? All of the preachers on this committee are either still UPC or have recently just dropped their licence. Whats going on? Has anybody else noticed this?

Ethnic names are not displayed?

The very reason that anyone would even pay attention to that is a subtle form of racism.

Are you so racially conscience that it really matters. I kind of like the idea of foks just being folks without any thought of what is of a race concern or what is not. LIVE and just let LIVE. Let us get out minds off of each others skin color and the ethnic sounding names. **** In appropriate language Edited out by Admin****

By the way...what is an African-American???? Sounds like someone who is an African that happens to be in America who still holds allegiances to somewhere in Africa. Oh good grief!!!!!!!!! Wonder why some folk cannot assimilate?

[Apprehended]

Hello, Martin Luther King Jr. was African American. Sis. Willie Johnson the evangelist was African American. You can't tell peoples race by their names. And in our horrible history of slavery the slaves often had the names of their owners.

True...

But if someone is looking (which I aint) there would be no trouble in recognizing what kind of name Osama Hussein Obama. That is about as MUSLIM as you can get.

Personally, I am not ready for a Muslim President...especiallly so soon after 9/11.

[Discerner]

Well we know this is not a very diverse group from the reasons of creating the organization. There may be something to this.

Maybe they haven't gotten their hands on the multicultural mailing list from HQ. They may need to get a plant to "get" it for them.

[Steadfast]

Am I to surmise that the Tulsa crowd is now being accused of racism as well? Good grief! That's a stretch to say the very least.

[mizpeh]

This thread might get deleted, but I am going to post it.

If you will look at the list of names on the committees for the World Wide Pentecostal Fellowship at this link, http://www.worldwidepf.com/page.php?ID=6 , you will notice that none of the names on here (and correct me if I am wrong) are African American, Hispanic, or Asian...... WOW. Is this odd or is it just me? All of the preachers on this committee are either still UPC or have recently just dropped their licence. Whats going on? Has anybody else noticed this?

Does it mean there are no minorities with an ultracon leaning? :stirpot

[Cindy]

I think he meant that he personally knows the ministers on this list named Johnson and King, and knows that they are white - not that the name itself is solely dedicated to one race or another.

I stand corrected. But this is just another way of causing discord in the fellowship of this orginazation. If he knows the ministers on the list why is he coming here asking the question? Why doesn't he ask them? Then he can come here and tell us why, if we care to know.

[Praxeas]

And how many have been asked? How many should be asked? What percentage should there be? How many should they be required to interview?



And you, Prax, fall for this nonsense?

Hey...it depends on the day...one day I'll fall for that nonsense and the next I will fall for yours...Im bored

[Praxeas]

Well we've been told they invite other UPC ministers to this meeting....are they inviting PAW and AA ministers too? :stirpot

[mizpeh]

Hey...it depends on the day...one day I'll fall for that nonsense and the next I will fall for yours...Im bored

If you're bored check out this thread near the end: http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=11079

[LordChocolate]

There are plenty of minorities that are conservative. Just not in the tulsa good ol boys club. BTW some of the GOB are not conservative. Which means, as usual, "I will tolerate in my friends what I preach against in my enemies". I doubt if you see many minorities with a license. YOU WILL NOT SEE any minorities in position. Not an accusation JMO.

[Thoughts by T]

Well we've been told they invite other UPC ministers to this meeting....are they inviting PAW and AA ministers too? :stirpot

Who knows. They say they are, but all of the people on that committee are either still UPC or have just left. If they are reaching out to everyone, and everybody, to every person that believes the truth, why arent there any PAW's or ALJC people on there?

[Joseph Miller]

True...

But if someone is looking (which I aint) there would be no trouble in recognizing what kind of name Osama Hussein Obama. That is about as MUSLIM as you can get.

Personally, I am not ready for a Muslim President...especiallly so soon after 9/11.


I will NEVER be ready for a Muslim President!

[Discerner]

Am I to surmise that the Tulsa crowd is now being accused of racism as well? Good grief! That's a stretch to say the very least.

Time will tell. From the appearance of it, multicultural ministries are not a part of the leadership. We shall see!

Maybe they can read this thread and find a son or son in law to head up this new department....:ohplease

[Barb]

Who knows. They say they are, but all of the people on that committee are either still UPC or have just left. If they are reaching out to everyone, and everybody, to every person that believes the truth, why arent there any PAW's or ALJC people on there?

I am NOT in favor of even a Tulsa meeting, let alone the new Fellowship org that is ALREADY in process.

However, I cannot and will not believe that the list of appointees is indicative of racism...no way!! I have not doubts that appointments were made according to an already, longstanding working relationship.

For instance, BJ Wilmoth is someone Bishop Wilson has mentored since BJ was a pup.

Listen, Bishop Wilson was my pastor at one time and I know for a fact he is NOT a racist...and exclusionist perhaps, but not racist.

What I mean by exclusionist, and I say this respectfully, is that I have first hand knowledge from days gone by that he will refuse fellowship with those whom he feels do not line up with his 'standards' of dress and the rest...that would include the PAW.

So, nothing in his behavior or opinions has caused me to think that he would change at this juncture.

[stmatthew]

Ethnic names are not displayed?

The very reason that anyone would even pay attention to that is a subtle form of racism.

Are you so racially conscience that it really matters. I kind of like the idea of foks just being folks without any thought of what is of a race concern or what is not. LIVE and just let LIVE. Let us get out minds off of each others skin color and the ethnic sounding names. I don't GIVE a FLIP if there IS/IS NOT any or all are African Americans....

By the way...what is an African-American???? Sounds like someone who is an African that happens to be in America who still holds allegiances to somewhere in Africa. Oh good grief!!!!!!!!! Wonder why some folk cannot assimilate?

These are my thoughts as well.

[MissBrattified]

Um. Weren't the invitations to the Tulsa meeting sent out to all the ministers in the UPCI? I suppose, then, if there are no other ethinicities (at least, those ethnicities made obvious by skin color) present, it would because of their own refusal or acceptance of their invitation...right? :coffee2

[Turbid Bliss]

The Tulsa group is obviously not yet a rainbow coalition. Their purpose is to protect the white American holiness standards culture.

I would bet the farm that they didn't investigate trying to send out advertisements and make phone calls to all the memberships of the PAW or other ethnic Apostolic organizations. After all, I'm sure they have some anti-TV folks too!

[Praxeas]

Ethnic names are not displayed?

Read the rest. What he meant was there are no people of those races listed on the committee.

The very reason that anyone would even pay attention to that is a subtle form of racism.
Baloney. It does not take a racist to be concerned about racism. That's absurd

Are you so racially conscience that it really matters.
Apparently yes, this person is. I'd rather be racially conscious than sub-consciously a racist

I kind of like the idea of foks just being folks without any thought of what is of a race concern or what is not.
That works out just fine when everyone on the list is of YOUR race though, doesn't it? See no evil, hear no evil?

LIVE and just let LIVE. Let us get out minds off of each others skin color and the ethnic sounding names. I don't GIVE a FLIP if there IS/IS NOT any or all are African Americans....
Well maybe...just maybe if our minds weren't on skin color REALLY...to BEGIN WITH...there'd be more other races in our ranks and in leadership positions in the organization. But even in the UPC the vast majority are white

By the way...what is an African-American???? Sounds like someone who is an African that happens to be in America who still holds allegiances to somewhere in Africa. Oh good grief!!!!!!!!! Wonder why some folk cannot assimilate?
Oh good grief indeed....hard to believe you just said that. They DO assimilate. In fact they were BORN here. I'm a European American...means only that my predecessors came here from Europe. It does not mean, as you asserted, that it means they hold national allegiances to somewhere else...BTW Africa is a continent, not a country...unless you are thinking of SOUTH African....

[Praxeas]

Ethnic names are not displayed?

The very reason that anyone would even pay attention to that is a subtle form of racism.

Are you so racially conscience that it really matters. I kind of like the idea of foks just being folks without any thought of what is of a race concern or what is not. LIVE and just let LIVE. Let us get out minds off of each others skin color and the ethnic sounding names. I don't GIVE a FLIP if there IS/IS NOT any or all are African Americans....

By the way...what is an African-American???? Sounds like someone who is an African that happens to be in America who still holds allegiances to somewhere in Africa. Oh good grief!!!!!!!!! Wonder why some folk cannot assimilate?
Oh BTW, not sure if another Admin got to this, but this is not acceptable. We don't cuss even indirectly or inuendos.

[Praxeas]

True...

But if someone is looking (which I aint) there would be no trouble in recognizing what kind of name Osama Hussein Obama. That is about as MUSLIM as you can get.

Personally, I am not ready for a Muslim President...especiallly so soon after 9/11.

I will NEVER be ready for a Muslim President!
Oh boy.....That is NOT just a Muslim name. It's an Arabic name and there are MANY Arabic Christians...Good Grief. Obama is NOT a Muslim you people. Too bad he does not have a good white christian name like Johnson HAHAHAH

Obama went to Christian schools. His father ONLY was a Muslim and that father was OUT of Obamas life MOST of his life. He goes to a Christian church. Listen to the man...you ever hear him say Allahu akbar? Does his wife wear head coverings? He is an American...listen to the man. Good grief. That right there is ignorance which is what Racism is based on....

[Praxeas]

These are my thoughts as well.
Matt! Racism is the tearing down of OTHER races to promote your own or out right hatred for all other races....simply nothing the LACK of OTHER races in a religious organization can't possibly be a form or racism. That is judging the person that made that post. Just because he is noting some concern does not make him or her a racist

[MissBrattified]

The Tulsa group is obviously not yet a rainbow coalition. Their purpose is to protect the white American holiness standards culture.

I would bet the farm that they didn't investigate trying to send out advertisements and make phone calls to all the memberships of the PAW or other ethnic Apostolic organizations. After all, I'm sure they have some anti-TV folks too!

I think that accusing fine men of God of racism is something I don't want to have any part of. Have you ever been to Bro. Godair's church? (Any one of those on the list.) If you had, you wouldn't be jabbering about "white American holiness standards."

Since these men belong to the UPCI (or did), then it makes sense that they would invite the member ministers of THEIR organization. Furthermore, it is only your assumption that they have not invited other ministers from other organizations, and therefore not even worth discussing.

And since when are holiness standards "white" or exclusively "American"? You sound a bit racist yourself.

[Praxeas]

Um. Weren't the invitations to the Tulsa meeting sent out to all the ministers in the UPCI? I suppose, then, if there are no other ethinicities (at least, those ethnicities made obvious by skin color) present, it would because of their own refusal or acceptance of their invitation...right? :coffee2
The post in question is not talking about who was invited to attend the meeting. It's questioning who is listed on the committees and heads and leaders of this new organization/fellowship

[stmatthew]

Matt! Racism is the tearing down of OTHER races to promote your own or out right hatred for all other races....simply nothing the LACK of OTHER races in a religious organization can't possibly be a form or racism. That is judging the person that made that post. Just because he is noting some concern does not make him or her a racist

The main part I was agreeing with is:


Are you so racially conscience that it really matters.

Are there currently any of other races than white on the UPC General Board?

My main answer to this is, SO WHAT?? I think that AL (Thoughts by T) Sharpton here is trying to play some race card in order to discredit these men, and I think it stinks.

[lovinglife]

This thread might get deleted, but I am going to post it.

If you will look at the list of names on the committees for the World Wide Pentecostal Fellowship at this link, http://www.worldwidepf.com/page.php?ID=6 , you will notice that none of the names on here (and correct me if I am wrong) are African American, Hispanic, or Asian...... WOW. Is this odd or is it just me? All of the preachers on this committee are either still UPC or have recently just dropped their licence. Whats going on? Has anybody else noticed this?

first of all i would think it is absolutely absurd to hint that some of these men are racist because of who is on the leadership board......I will ask you to pull up the paw cooljc cogic or the spanish apostolic websites and see how much diversity is on their respective boards.....i am not saying eveyrone of them for sure arent racist in some way but i am not saying the ministers in the paw arent either because i dont know them or sit down and look for that......

[Cindy]

This is an inflammatory thread either way you look at it.

[Discerner]

haha, it is really to see how incensed people get.

I get amazed at how these men are lifted to such a high pedastal and no one can question there motives or ideas. The fact of the matter is they are leading a split of the UPCI (if you can call a couple hundred preachers [max] a split. WOnder what they would do if a member(s) of their church was organizing this on the local level?

[MissBrattified]

haha, it is really to see how incensed people get.

I get amazed at how these men are lifted to such a high pedastal and no one can question there motives or ideas. The fact of the matter is they are leading a split of the UPCI (if you can call a couple hundred preachers [max] a split. WOnder what they would do if a member(s) of their church was organizing this on the local level?

Discerner, I don't agree entirely with the movement and the methods (of this new organizational attempt), but that doesn't give us leave or reason to slander and suppose and gossip about men who are sincere, even if they may (or may not be) be sincerely wrong.

I can easily question actions, but it is quite another to make suppositions about the motives and intents of a man's heart, which only God knows. The supposition here, on this thread, is to wonder aloud if these men are closet racists, since there are (allegedly) no men on the esteemed roster from minority groups.

Idle hands (and idle minds) are the devil's workshop.

[stmatthew]

haha, it is really to see how incensed people get.

I get amazed at how these men are lifted to such a high pedastal and no one can question there motives or ideas. The fact of the matter is they are leading a split of the UPCI (if you can call a couple hundred preachers [max] a split. WOnder what they would do if a member(s) of their church was organizing this on the local level?

I am not incensed. I would question someone if they did this with the UPC or ALJC as well.


BTW - The split is occurring because of Resolution 4, which was voted on by the constituency. I have said it before, only a blind man would have went to Tampa to vote and not know the outcome if Res 4 was passed.

And your speaking of the local church vs the national level is comparing apples to beef. The UPC is a group of ministers, and does not have anything to do with the local saint.

[stmatthew]

Discerner, I don't agree entirely with the movement and the methods (of this new organizational attempt), but that doesn't give us leave or reason to slander and suppose and gossip about men who are sincere, even if they may (or may not be) be sincerely wrong.

I can easily question actions, but it is quite another to make suppositions about the motives and intents of a man's heart, which only God knows. The supposition here, on this thread, is to wonder aloud if these men are closet racists, since there are (allegedly) no men on the esteemed roster from minority groups.

Idle hands (and idle minds) are the devil's workshop.

I should delete my post and just quote yours. :yourock

[Cindy]

I am not incensed. I would question someone if they did this with the UPC or ALJC as well.


BTW - The split is occurring because of Resolution 4, which was voted on by the constituency. I have said it before, only a blind man would have went to Tampa to vote and not know the outcome if Res 4 was passed.

And your speaking of the local church vs the national level is comparing apples to beef. The UPC is a group of ministers, and does not have anything to do with the local saint.

Amen.

[Apprehended]

Ethnic names are not displayed?

The very reason that anyone would even pay attention to that is a subtle form of racism.

Are you so racially conscience that it really matters. I kind of like the idea of foks just being folks without any thought of what is of a race concern or what is not. LIVE and just let LIVE. Let us get out minds off of each others skin color and the ethnic sounding names. **** In appropriate language Edited out by Admin****

By the way...what is an African-American???? Sounds like someone who is an African that happens to be in America who still holds allegiances to somewhere in Africa. Oh good grief!!!!!!!!! Wonder why some folk cannot assimilate?

Inappropriate language?

I am careful not to use inappropriate languate. Therefore, I have NO idea what you are talking about.

[TRFrance]

Inappropriate language?

I am careful not to use inappropriate languate. Therefore, I have NO idea what you are talking about.

You're kidding, right?

You don't think saying "i don't give a ---- " is inappropriate language for a Christian?

[Hoovie]

The Tulsa group is obviously not yet a rainbow coalition. Their purpose is to protect the white American holiness standards culture.

I would bet the farm that they didn't investigate trying to send out advertisements and make phone calls to all the memberships of the PAW or other ethnic Apostolic organizations. After all, I'm sure they have some anti-TV folks too!

These are very interesting and provoking thoughts - I admit!

[Apprehended]

You're kidding, right?

You don't think saying "i don't give a ---- " is inappropriate language for a Christian?

What on earth are you thinking about anyway. Do you see the word as a reference to something indecent? NOWAY. Where are people's minds nowadays.

Do people continually think VULGARLY? Are minds gone to to the point that they equate almost every word we use as something dirty and ugly.

Sorry, but I am not of that class of thinkers. I'm just not there.

[Cindy]

What on earth are you thinking about anyway. Do you see the word as a reference to something indecent? NOWAY. Where are people's minds nowadays.

Do people continually think VULGARLY? Are minds gone to to the point that they equate almost every word we use as something dirty and ugly.

Sorry, but I am not of that class of thinkers. I'm just not there.

Were you never smacked upside the head for using a "by word"? That is not exactly cussin but very close to it.

[lovinglife]

haha, it is really to see how incensed people get.

I get amazed at how these men are lifted to such a high pedastal and no one can question there motives or ideas. The fact of the matter is they are leading a split of the UPCI (if you can call a couple hundred preachers [max] a split. WOnder what they would do if a member(s) of their church was organizing this on the local level?

so since you are so sure that these men are racist and since you have met and built a relationship with as well as gained actual situations with each one of them to back up such statements as to call them a racist i am happy to hear it since these men are men of such low integrity (mass amount of sarcasm).....so all of these words are said against people with no proof or anything.........i would put that list of preachers integrity up against any.......:thumbsdown.......

[Apprehended]

Oh BTW, not sure if another Admin got to this, but this is not acceptable. We don't cuss even indirectly or inuendos.

Sorry...

I reject the idea of it being cussing. There was no cuss word either directly or by an inuendo.

I reject the very idea. My mind is not in the gutter in the area of whatever YOU are thinking about. Whatever it is, I have no idea...neither do I WANT an idea. So, if someone thinks that it a CUSS word, just don't tell me. I'd rather remain in my inocence.

But, since some of you people think that the word FLIP is a cuss word, I will TRY to refrain from using it in the future. I just hope no one ever starts a thread in refrence to the t.v. program, "FLIP that house."

[The Dean]

The main part I was agreeing with is:



Are there currently any of other races than white on the UPC General Board?

My main answer to this is, SO WHAT?? I think that AL (Thoughts by T) Sharpton here is trying to play some race card in order to discredit these men, and I think it stinks.


And I agree with you on this. Wholeheartedly.

P.S.: Yes, there are men of color on the General Board.

[MissBrattified]

Sorry...

I reject the idea of it being cussing. There was no cuss word either directly or by an inuendo.

I reject the very idea. My mind is not in the gutter in the area of whatever YOU are thinking about. Whatever it is, I have no idea...neither do I WANT an idea. So, if someone thinks that it a CUSS word, just don't tell me. I'd rather remain in my inocence.

But, since some of you people think that the word FLIP is a cuss word, I will TRY to refrain from using it in the future. I just hope no one ever starts a thread in refrence to the t.v. program, "FLIP that house."

Apprehended, did you originally post "I don't give a ****", or did you spell it out, "I don't give a flip?"

I'm only asking because...since "flip" isn't that bad of a word (albeit a byword or slang when used in this context), why would you feel the need to asterisk it?

If a word is bad enough to put it in asterisks, then readers will [reasonably] assume that it is of that nature, and fill in the blanks with a true curse word, intentionally or not. Please do not try to pretend such innocence that you are unaware of other 4-letter words that could easily fill in that blank.

If you did not originally asterisk the word, and spelled it out, innocently assuming that it was pure enough to use in this forum, then disregard my comments.

[Thoughts by T]

OMG. For all of you overeacters out there, I never once called anybody a racist. This was not the intent of the thread when it started. I was simply bringing up the question of absurdity of this whole thing. And "apprehended", it seems as if you are never wrong and always try to defend yourself...theres no point in arguing with someone who refuses to look at the big picture.

I was simply trying to bring out the point of "where is the balance in this whole thing? Is this something they just threw together? My goodness, their foreign missions board has no one that speaks another language, no one that actually can relate to being a foreign missionary, and how absurd is that? Maybe some have been over to other countrys and done some stuff over on other parts of the world, but my goodness how are they planning on starting new churches across seas? Has this whole thing really been thought out at all? I could go on and on about the whole absurdity of it all, but what is the point? To ensure balance, this should have been looked at and thought out more way than it has. I did not point fingers at any person or call anybody a racist. But I could have clarified my point better. My apologies. I will make sure in the future.

[MissBrattified]

OMG. For all of you overeacters out there, I never once called anybody a racist. This was not the intent of the thread when it started. I was simply bringing up the question of absurdity of this whole thing. And "apprehended", it seems as if you are never wrong and always try to defend yourself...theres no point in arguing with someone who refuses to look at the big picture.

You may not have, but a couple of others have come near it, if not actually said so. Implications and innuendos DO matter.

Just out of curiosity...what exactly is odd about an all-Caucasian board? Or rather, what is odd about it, that is any more odd than the all African-American leadership of the P.A.W., for instance?

Aren't you assuming that there is no one who speaks a second language? Or do you know that for a fact? And since when does one have to be something other than American-American to be an effective missionary?

If your question is only to say, "Where is the balance?", then why address only the appearance that there isn't a diversity of races and cultures? (You do realize that you are making assumptions based on the fact that these men have white skin, right?) I have five different ethnicities/cultures in my recent ancestry, yet I am as fair-skinned as they come.

[Steadfast]

Also, for an interesting sidenote, I've preached for (I think) 5 of the 6 Coordinators of the Tulsa meeting and all of them have racially diverse congregations. I also think those same Churches (can't say about the other) all have non-whites in leadership positions.

At least two of them are probably 1/3 to 1/2 non-whites.

I'm sorry, folks... I just can't see a reason for this line of thought outside of casting a negative light on those involved in Tulsa.

[lovinglife]

Also, for an interesting sidenote, I've preached for (I think) 5 of the 6 Coordinators of the Tulsa meeting and all of them have racially diverse congregations. I also think those same Churches (can't say about the other) all have non-whites in leadership positions.

At least two of them are probably 1/3 to 1/2 non-whites.

I'm sorry, folks... I just can't see a reason for this line of thought outside of casting a negative light on those involved in Tulsa.

:iagree:iagree

[Steadfast]

:iagree:iagree

By the way, Lovinglife, I know and love your Father. Have preached various meetings with him.

Great folks!

[embonpoint]

OMG. For all of you overeacters out there, I never once called anybody a racist. This was not the intent of the thread when it started. I was simply bringing up the question of absurdity of this whole thing. And "apprehended", it seems as if you are never wrong and always try to defend yourself...theres no point in arguing with someone who refuses to look at the big picture.

I was simply trying to bring out the point of "where is the balance in this whole thing? Is this something they just threw together? My goodness, their foreign missions board has no one that speaks another language, no one that actually can relate to being a foreign missionary, and how absurd is that? Maybe some have been over to other countrys and done some stuff over on other parts of the world, but my goodness how are they planning on starting new churches across seas? Has this whole thing really been thought out at all? I could go on and on about the whole absurdity of it all, but what is the point? To ensure balance, this should have been looked at and thought out more way than it has. I did not point fingers at any person or call anybody a racist. But I could have clarified my point better. My apologies. I will make sure in the future.

Speaking of things just thrown together. You might think a little more before hitting the submit button. Not only did your initial post appear to be implying racism but your facts are not all correct.
1.Not all the ministers listed are in the UPCI or have recently dropped. This is true of the vast majority but not all.
2. a) I believe you are incorrect in stating that none of the men on the board speak a foreign language.
b) You show your lack of knowledge in thinking that this should be a requirement for a group that would typically be responsible for promoting and arranging financial support for missions. The commitee is not the missionaries.

[lovinglife]

By the way, Lovinglife, I know and love your Father. Have preached various meetings with him.

Great folks!

Thank you Reverend I appreciate that

[Evang.Benincasa]

This thread might get deleted, but I am going to post it.

If you will look at the list of names on the committees for the World Wide Pentecostal Fellowship at this link, http://www.worldwidepf.com/page.php?ID=6 , you will notice that none of the names on here (and correct me if I am wrong) are African American, Hispanic, or Asian...... WOW. Is this odd or is it just me? All of the preachers on this committee are either still UPC or have recently just dropped their licence. Whats going on? Has anybody else noticed this?

:ohplease Oh please is this for real? What about the Italians, is there any members who are Italians???

What about the Sicilians, no Sicilians?

Whatever, I'm really starting to believe that this whole thing is going over the top. Listen these Brothers who are having the Tulsa Conference are some of the finest Brothers in shoe leather. So how about cutting some slack and getting on with the business of having some revival.

I think the Television issue was wrong, and that's my opinion, but time proves all things, so allow Jesus Christ to sort it all out and lets see what it all looks like in 20 years.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Praxeas]

What on earth are you thinking about anyway. Do you see the word as a reference to something indecent? NOWAY. Where are people's minds nowadays.

Do people continually think VULGARLY? Are minds gone to to the point that they equate almost every word we use as something dirty and ugly.

Sorry, but I am not of that class of thinkers. I'm just not there.
See Matt? If someone points out racism....they are racists and now pointing out inappropriate language makes US the ones that think vulgarly....that's absurd. We live in an age where people try to turn it around on the others to justify themselves.

[Praxeas]

Sorry...

I reject the idea of it being cussing. There was no cuss word either directly or by an inuendo.

I reject the very idea. My mind is not in the gutter in the area of whatever YOU are thinking about. Whatever it is, I have no idea...neither do I WANT an idea. So, if someone thinks that it a CUSS word, just don't tell me. I'd rather remain in my inocence.

But, since some of you people think that the word FLIP is a cuss word, I will TRY to refrain from using it in the future. I just hope no one ever starts a thread in refrence to the t.v. program, "FLIP that house."
If you have a problem with it please take it up with StMatt in private. If you have not done so yet, please also read the forum rules. Thanks

[Rhoni]

Thank you Reverend I appreciate that


Lovinglife,

Great picture! Good to see you guys so happy:) I will have to ask though; Does your brother know you are on here? :ouch

Blessings, Rhoni

[Apprehended]

See Matt? If someone points out racism....they are racists and now pointing out inappropriate language makes US the ones that think vulgarly....that's absurd. We live in an age where people try to turn it around on the others to justify themselves.

Unlike YOU...

RACISM is not the center and circumfrence of my WORLD.

I am really irritated with the constant social issues of today such as homosexuality and RACE that are constantly IN YOUR FACE from morning to night.

There is LIFE outside of the RACE issue.

Simply because I express my resentment at the IN YOUR FACE attitude with racism, you have to come on and make a BIG DEAL out of it.

I have no idea what race you are, but my reccommendation to you is GET A LIFE.

Apparently, because of some twisted idea of my rejection of the "in your face" attitude regarding race which is so cherished by you, you have chosen to twist the meaning of a word to send me an infraction.

I would tell you to get lost but somehow you ended up as a moderator...good grief.

[Apprehended]

Matt! Racism is the tearing down of OTHER races to promote your own or out right hatred for all other races....simply nothing the LACK of OTHER races in a religious organization can't possibly be a form or racism. That is judging the person that made that post. Just because he is noting some concern does not make him or her a racist

Probably the most narrow minded post that I've ever read.

Why would he have his mind swirlling around in that swill anyway? What is the all important "concern," that you have noted?

I don't care if the leadership is little or much of the black race....don't care at all. I don't give the SNAP of my fingers (no cuss word here) what race is in leadership. It is no concern or does it hold ANY interest to me. I am always very much perplexed by the attitudes of others who make it such a life and death concern for themselves.

If there is anyone of the black race has any interest in being in leadership within the ranks of any predominantly white Apostolic denomination, let them do what everyone else does that are in leadership. They must prove themselves in calling, election, anointing, wisdom, leadership and faithfulness. Those qualities are RACE NEUTRAL.

You don't have to make such a big deal out of all of this and then go looking for some reason to send me an INFRACTION.

Get it?

[lovinglife]

Lovinglife,

Great picture! Good to see you guys so happy:) I will have to ask though; Does your brother know you are on here? :ouch

Blessings, Rhoni

Not sure but i will tell my brothers hello for you, and i will make sure to check in with him....LOL...... thanks for the compliment on Jasmine and I.

[Praxeas]

Unlike YOU...

RACISM is not the center and circumfrence of my WORLD.

I am really irritated with the constant social issues of today such as homosexuality and RACE that are constantly IN YOUR FACE from morning to night.

There is LIFE outside of the RACE issue.

Simply because I express my resentment at the IN YOUR FACE attitude with racism, you have to come on and make a BIG DEAL out of it.

I have no idea what race you are, but my reccommendation to you is GET A LIFE.

Apparently, because of some twisted idea of my rejection of the "in your face" attitude regarding race which is so cherished by you, you have chosen to twist the meaning of a word to send me an infraction.

I would tell you to get lost but somehow you ended up as a moderator...good grief.
Actually I thought you were the one making a big deal out of it...I was responding to YOUR assertion that for the original poster to raise the issue is itself racism. I disagree with that.

[philjones]

Oh boy.....That is NOT just a Muslim name. It's an Arabic name and there are MANY Arabic Christians...Good Grief. Obama is NOT a Muslim you people. Too bad he does not have a good white christian name like Johnson HAHAHAH

Obama went to Christian schools. His father ONLY was a Muslim and that father was OUT of Obamas life MOST of his life. He goes to a Christian church. Listen to the man...you ever hear him say Allahu akbar? Does his wife wear head coverings? He is an American...listen to the man. Good grief. That right there is ignorance which is what Racism is based on....

You are basically right but I think...

You need to go visit the site of the church he attends in Chicago! He is an African who lives in America. Their site is EXTREMELY racist in my opinion and I have a real hard time considering the United Church of Christ a Christian church regardless what their name includes.

[Jekyll]

Apprehended, did you originally post "I don't give a ****", or did you spell it out, "I don't give a flip?"

I'm only asking because...since "flip" isn't that bad of a word (albeit a byword or slang when used in this context), why would you feel the need to asterisk it?

If a word is bad enough to put it in asterisks, then readers will [reasonably] assume that it is of that nature, and fill in the blanks with a true curse word, intentionally or not. Please do not try to pretend such innocence that you are unaware of other 4-letter words that could easily fill in that blank.

If you did not originally asterisk the word, and spelled it out, innocently assuming that it was pure enough to use in this forum, then disregard my comments.

If I recall, it was flip. Someone edited it out with asterisks. Yes this would imply that it was a curse word.

OMG. For all of you overeacters out there, I never once called anybody a racist. This was not the intent of the thread when it started. I was simply bringing up the question of absurdity of this whole thing. And "apprehended", it seems as if you are never wrong and always try to defend yourself...theres no point in arguing with someone who refuses to look at the big picture.

I was simply trying to bring out the point of "where is the balance in this whole thing? Is this something they just threw together? My goodness, their foreign missions board has no one that speaks another language, no one that actually can relate to being a foreign missionary, and how absurd is that? Maybe some have been over to other countrys and done some stuff over on other parts of the world, but my goodness how are they planning on starting new churches across seas? Has this whole thing really been thought out at all? I could go on and on about the whole absurdity of it all, but what is the point? To ensure balance, this should have been looked at and thought out more way than it has. I did not point fingers at any person or call anybody a racist. But I could have clarified my point better. My apologies. I will make sure in the future.
Let's be consistent. I believe that the bolded word above could be understood as taking the Lord's name in vain and in need of an edit.

To report a post with a questionable amount of vulgarity-not widely accepted as vulgarity-just because they reject your premise is sophmoric. However, admin has deemed it as vulgar so that is that. But the motive for reporting is suspect.

[Praxeas]

You are basically right but I think...

You need to go visit the site of the church he attends in Chicago! He is an African who lives in America. Their site is EXTREMELY racist in my opinion and I have a real hard time considering the United Church of Christ a Christian church regardless what their name includes.
By "Christian" I mean religiously....they are far from being Muslim

Theologically they claim to be liberal...I see the afrocentral themes on the website and I can't say I am convinced they are racist, though to a technical degree they might be...sort of segregationalists?

[George]

Oh boy.....That is NOT just a Muslim name. It's an Arabic name and there are MANY Arabic Christians...Good Grief. Obama is NOT a Muslim you people. Too bad he does not have a good white christian name like Johnson HAHAHAH

Obama went to Christian schools. His father ONLY was a Muslim and that father was OUT of Obamas life MOST of his life. He goes to a Christian church. Listen to the man...you ever hear him say Allahu akbar? Does his wife wear head coverings? He is an American...listen to the man. Good grief. That right there is ignorance which is what Racism is based on....

Apparently you haven't read enough about Obama. He did claim to be a Muslim at one point and recently became a supposed Christian. Do you remember he refused the Bible when he was sworn into his current office and requested the Koran? It was a heated moment and the government caved in to him allowing him to use the Koran. This sickens me. I think he became "Christian" because he realizes America is a Christian country and he is seeking votes.
EDIT: Sorry - I have the wrong guy. It was Keith Ellison that was sworn in with a Koran, but Obama did attend the mosque occasionally when he lived with his dad. He does have Muslim roots and I have a problem with a man who refuses to salute the American flag but wants to hold the position of president. If he can't pledge allegiance to our flag we do not need him in office.

[Thoughts by T]

If I recall, it was flip. Someone edited it out with asterisks. Yes this would imply that it was a curse word.


Let's be consistent. I believe that the bolded word above could be understood as taking the Lord's name in vain and in need of an edit.

To report a post with a questionable amount of vulgarity-not widely accepted as vulgarity-just because they reject your premise is sophmoric. However, admin has deemed it as vulgar so that is that. But the motive for reporting is suspect.

Jekyll....I stand corrected. I apologize for using OMG.

[HeavenlyOne]

Apparently you haven't read enough about Obama. He did claim to be a Muslim at one point and recently became a supposed Christian. Do you remember he refused the Bible when he was sworn into his current office and requested the Koran? It was a heated moment and the government caved in to him allowing him to use the Koran. This sickens me. I think he became "Christian" because he realizes America is a Christian country and he is seeking votes.
EDIT: Sorry - I have the wrong guy. It was Keith Ellison that was sworn in with a Koran, but Obama did attend the mosque occasionally when he lived with his dad. He does have Muslim roots and I have a problem with a man who refuses to salute the American flag but wants to hold the position of president. If he can't pledge allegiance to our flag we do not need him in office.

You have read too many emails. Snopes has the true story on this guy, and no, he's not Muslim, nor does he refuse to salute the flag nor refuse to pledge allegiance to this country. He's been Christian since the 1980's, long before he became a politician. And he never lived with his dad. His dad left him when he was 2 yrs old and died when he was 21.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

[Praxeas]

Apparently you haven't read enough about Obama. He did claim to be a Muslim at one point and recently became a supposed Christian. Do you remember he refused the Bible when he was sworn into his current office and requested the Koran? It was a heated moment and the government caved in to him allowing him to use the Koran. This sickens me. I think he became "Christian" because he realizes America is a Christian country and he is seeking votes.
EDIT: Sorry - I have the wrong guy. It was Keith Ellison that was sworn in with a Koran, but Obama did attend the mosque occasionally when he lived with his dad. He does have Muslim roots and I have a problem with a man who refuses to salute the American flag but wants to hold the position of president. If he can't pledge allegiance to our flag we do not need him in office.
He may have attended a mosque with his dad....you think he can just tell us dad to stuff it? Kids go with their parents because they make them.

I have not found proof of him having Muslim allegiance
As for the "pledge"...actually he has and does say the pledge when it is done...what you are referring to was the infamous chain email that has him not having his hand over his heart for the national anthem. I've seen a lot of white Americans with white names lol....christians, NOT put their hand over their heart when the anthem is played. They have pics of him doing it though to the pledge of Allegiance

So it is untrue that he refuses to pledge allegiance..

Muslim roots... how many of us might have murderous and adulterous roots? You are talking about his father.

Where is the evidence he attended Mosques other than the chain emails which is not evidence. Anyone can make an email and mass email it out and spam people

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_barack_obama_muslim.htm

Obama was not raised as a muslim. No evidence he was taken to a mosque

[Praxeas]

You have read too many emails. Snopes has the true story on this guy, and no, he's not Muslim, nor does he refuse to salute the flag nor refuse to pledge allegiance to this country. He's been Christian since the 1980's, long before he became a politician. And he never lived with his dad. His dad left him when he was 2 yrs old and died when he was 21.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
Thank you

[Apprehended]

You have read too many emails. Snopes has the true story on this guy, and no, he's not Muslim, nor does he refuse to salute the flag nor refuse to pledge allegiance to this country. He's been Christian since the 1980's, long before he became a politician. And he never lived with his dad. His dad left him when he was 2 yrs old and died when he was 21.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

You have been listening to too much propaganda generated by the far left.

It was not his Dad that sent him to be trained in the Islamic Madrasses. It was his mother when they lived in Indonesia.

Now he claims to be Christian?

Have you ever looked at the web-site of the church that he claims membership in, reading what they are committed to?

The story of the Greeks, Troy and big wooden horse comes to mind about right now. We have a Trojan horse and it appears that we are rocked soundly to sleep to know it or even CARE if we did know it.

[George]

I have seen on TV a video of Obama not saying the pledge, not saluting the pledge and not crossing his heart or singing when the national anthem was played. It was several minutes long and played the entire anthem. He never showed any sign of allegiance to the anthem or the pledge. Yes, there have been many rumors and stories circulating but the video cannot be denied.

[George]

Lastly, this has taken us away from the intended thought of the post. Let's drop Obama out of it and return to the subject at hand. There are only white people on all of the councils of WPF.

[Jekyll]

You have been listening to too much propaganda generated by the far left.

It was not his Dad that sent him to be trained in the Islamic Madrasses. It was his mother when they lived in Indonesia.

Now he claims to be Christian?

Have you ever looked at the web-site of the church that he claims membership in, reading what they are committed to?

The story of the Greeks, Troy and big wooden horse comes to mind about right now. We have a Trojan horse and it appears that we are rocked soundly to sleep to know it or even CARE if we did know it.
When they cry, "Peace, peace," sudden destruction cometh...

[Praxeas]

I have seen on TV a video of Obama not saying the pledge, not saluting the pledge and not crossing his heart or singing when the national anthem was played. It was several minutes long and played the entire anthem. He never showed any sign of allegiance to the anthem or the pledge. Yes, there have been many rumors and stories circulating but the video cannot be denied.
It was NOT the pledge. It was the national anthem. They are required to face the flag, which it looks like he might have been doing like everyone else. But there are OTHER pictures where he does have his hand over his heart and does say the pledge of allegiance.

[PraiseHymn]

Topic is almost similar to what I posted some time ago that got 32 pages in less then 5 days. It would be my guess that since there is such a small minority of african americans, asians and hispanics that are UPCI, there would be an even smaller minority (if any at all) who would want to join with the World Wide Pentecostal Fellowship. Oh well, what can you say *sigh*

By the way, how in the world did this post go from no blacks, hispanics and asians in the newly formed organization to Obama and his ties to the Islamic Faith. Man, stop hijacking the threads (no pun in hijack lol lol)

[HeavenlyOne]

You have been listening to too much propaganda generated by the far left.

It was not his Dad that sent him to be trained in the Islamic Madrasses. It was his mother when they lived in Indonesia.

Now he claims to be Christian?

Have you ever looked at the web-site of the church that he claims membership in, reading what they are committed to?

The story of the Greeks, Troy and big wooden horse comes to mind about right now. We have a Trojan horse and it appears that we are rocked soundly to sleep to know it or even CARE if we did know it.

If you read about the schooling he had, there are several facts you are missing.

1. It was his stepfather, not his mother, that relocated them to Indonesia.

2. The school he went to was attended mostly by Islamic children, but was not a Muslim school. He also attended a Catholic school for a couple years while in Indonesia, but we don't claim that he was ever Catholic, are we?

3. There is no evidence at all that he is or ever was Muslim.

[HeavenlyOne]

I have seen on TV a video of Obama not saying the pledge, not saluting the pledge and not crossing his heart or singing when the national anthem was played. It was several minutes long and played the entire anthem. He never showed any sign of allegiance to the anthem or the pledge. Yes, there have been many rumors and stories circulating but the video cannot be denied.

Watch any football, baseball, or Nascar event and you will find several people doing the same thing Obama did.

Maybe he doesn't know the words to the anthem. ;)

[Jekyll]

I wonder if he'll downsize some security programs to fund social programs...and just by hmm...COINCIDENCE...a security failure will lead to more terrorist acts...leading to deals with terrorists...and Iran...Saudis for oil...

I just don't trust him

[HeavenlyOne]

I wonder if he'll downsize some security programs to fund social programs...and just by hmm...COINCIDENCE...a security failure will lead to more terrorist acts...leading to deals with terrorists...and Iran...Saudis for oil...

I just don't trust him

Me either.

I trust her even less.

[Jekyll]

Me either.

I trust her even less.
On one hand, I want her to win because I don't think this country is ready for her yet...but if she is elected...God help us.

I wish Thompson was a realistic choice

[George]

It was NOT the pledge. It was the national anthem. They are required to face the flag, which it looks like he might have been doing like everyone else. But there are OTHER pictures where he does have his hand over his heart and does say the pledge of allegiance.

What I saw included the pledge AND the national anthem.

BTW - there are only white people in position in the WPF

[Jekyll]

What I saw included the pledge AND the national anthem.

BTW - there are only white people in position in the WPF
Big deal. Why is anyone noticing? I see Apostolics in position in the WPF. Why do you notice the color of someone's skin?

[HeavenlyOne]

On one hand, I want her to win because I don't think this country is ready for her yet...but if she is elected...God help us.

I wish Thompson was a realistic choice

I thought Mike was moving along faster than what the polls showed.

[HeavenlyOne]

Big deal. Why is anyone noticing? I see Apostolics in position in the WPF. Why do you notice the color of someone's skin?

And aren't they only men and no women???

Bah......

[Praxeas]

If you read about the schooling he had, there are several facts you are missing.

1. It was his stepfather, not his mother, that relocated them to Indonesia.

2. The school he went to was attended mostly by Islamic children, but was not a Muslim school. He also attended a Catholic school for a couple years while in Indonesia, but we don't claim that he was ever Catholic, are we?

3. There is no evidence at all that he is or ever was Muslim.
Mostly right...it was a muslim public school system....because Indonesia is mostly Islamic, but it was not a midrash (or whatever the name is)...it other words it was not an indoctrination center where all they did was read the quran like those we usually hear about. It was considered muslim because the nation itself is a muslim nation. All Christian schools there are private. This was public

[Apprehended]

Me either.

I trust her even less.

I could vomit and survive whatever change she brought but whatever change that HE brought would be the death of us all. He is committed to the same things that his church is committed to. It makes me sick and doubt seriously that any of us would survive if he had his complete way.

The supreme court judges that those two would appoint will put a blight on us by their rulings that can never be corrected.

[Sarah]

Oh BTW, not sure if another Admin got to this, but this is not acceptable. We don't cuss even indirectly or inuendos.

Are you serious Praxeas? "I don't give a flip" is cussing???

Goodness! I've been cussing all my life, and didn't know it!