I'm So Glad We Had This Time Together...

[acharris]

The time has come where I feel I must leave the AFF. I have enjoyed the friends I have made, but I've not enjoyed the enemies I've made. I just hope those who are so judgmental here can live a sinless life, because God will not forgive those who refuse to forgive. St. Matthew put the nail in the coffin.

However, I will be praying for those who speak the truth in love.

God bless you all,
acharris

[stmatthew]

The time has come where I feel I must leave the AFF. I have enjoyed the friends I have made, but I've not enjoyed the enemies I've made. I just hope those who are so judgmental here can live a sinless life, because God will not forgive those who refuse to forgive. St. Matthew put the nail in the coffin.

However, I will be praying for those who speak the truth in love.

God bless you all,
acharris

I am not your enemy. And I am a very merciful person. But I will NOT overlook the sin of homosexuality. The family unit is continually in a battle in this world. I am hearing more and more preachers, and saints, "coming out". I refuse to be silent when this sin that has the potential of making one reprobate is becoming so prevolent and accepted in our society.

And I will not stay silent when the promotion of a concert with a known homosexual is taking place. AFF has enough of a stigma to overcome. I am not going to allow promotion of a homosexual lifestyle to be another mark against it.

[StMark]

O come on Andy. you are going to make yourself look cowardly if you cut and run. i warned you this place gets rough did i not??
If you leave you are going to look BAD!!! Do not leave - you'll make a lot of people mad at you if you do !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[acharris]

I am not your enemy. And I am a very merciful person. But I will NOT overlook the sin of homosexuality. The family unit is continually in a battle in this world. I am hearing more and more preachers, and saints, "coming out". I refuse to be silent when this sin that has the potential of making one reprobate is becoming so prevolent and accepted in our society.

And I will not stay silent when the promotion of a concert with a known homosexual is taking place. AFF has enough of a stigma to overcome. I am not going to allow promotion of a homosexual lifestyle to be another mark against it.

"Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one's praise will come from God."

I did not join this forum to promote a concert. Someone else posted the information, and I was invited to join. However, St. Matthew's pious and unrelenting judgment of a brother he thinks he knows "everything" about is repulsive and hypocritical. That's not name calling--HE's name calling--That's the truth.

[acharris]

O come on Andy. you are going to make yourself look cowardly if you cut and run. i warned you this place gets rough did i not??
If you leave you are going to look BAD!!! Do not leave - you'll make a lot of people mad at you if you do !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not a coward. I just know how to pick my fights. I don't have time to devote to this type of foolishness.

[StMark]

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ANNOUNCEMENT ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~


Andy has changed his mind and has decided NOT to leave.


Praise the LORD :happydance



.

[LaGirl]

i would like you to stay....but understand why you want to go.

[StMark]

I'm not a coward. I just know how to pick my fights. I don't have time to devote to this type of foolishness.


What you do is just ignore what you don't want to further engage in and then move on to something else or have a little cooling off period.
come on don't leave- i'll be disappointed if you do

[Hoovie]

I'm not a coward. I just know how to pick my fights. I don't have time to devote to this type of foolishness.

You do know you can ignor any poster - right?

[Rev]

I am not your enemy. And I am a very merciful person. But I will NOT overlook the sin of homosexuality. The family unit is continually in a battle in this world. I am hearing more and more preachers, and saints, "coming out". I refuse to be silent when this sin that has the potential of making one reprobate is becoming so prevolent and accepted in our society.

And I will not stay silent when the promotion of a concert with a known homosexual is taking place. AFF has enough of a stigma to overcome. I am not going to allow promotion of a homosexual lifestyle to be another mark against it.

Very, very, very, right. :scripture :scripture :scripture

[stmatthew]

"Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one's praise will come from God."

I did not join this forum to promote a concert. Someone else posted the information, and I was invited to join. However, St. Matthew's pious and unrelenting judgment of a brother he thinks he knows "everything" about is repulsive and hypocritical. That's not name calling--HE's name calling--That's the truth.


You may not have joined specifically to promote a concert, but you did start a thread (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=10854) on it . If you wish to fellowship with a homosexual, go right ahead. But as an owner and an admin of this forum, I am not going to stand by and give credence to this man.

As far as name calling, if the man is a homosexual, am I name calling?? And would it be accurate to call a homosexual a pervert???

[Rev]

Truth is now under constant attack. I heard a UPC evangelist and pastor just tonight say that a man that had water poured on him was saved, the other one said that a man that was never baptized was saved. And you wonder why some men are pulling out?

[acharris]

You may not have joined specifically to promote a concert, but you did start a thread (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=10854) on it . If you wish to fellowship with a homosexual, go right ahead. But as an owner and an admin of this forum, I am not going to stand by and give credence to this man.

As far as name calling, if the man is a homosexual, am I name calling?? And would it be accurate to call a homosexual a pervert???

Old Bro. Glass said, "If the truth hurts, don't say it." If you feel that your information is true (I DON'T), you should share it in the proper forum. How about looking up Matthew 18. Good grief!

People like you give Christianity in general and Pentecostal in particular a very bad name. Who would want what you've got? Who would come to you for help?

May God have mercy on your soul!

[Rev]

You may not have joined specifically to promote a concert, but you did start a thread (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=10854) on it . If you wish to fellowship with a homosexual, go right ahead. But as an owner and an admin of this forum, I am not going to stand by and give credence to this man.

As far as name calling, if the man is a homosexual, am I name calling?? And would it be accurate to call a homosexual a pervert???

Your still right. If 50 people post that's its alright, your still the one that is right!

[Rev]

Old Bro. Glass said, "If the truth hurts, don't say it." If you feel that your information is true (I DON'T), you should share it in the proper forum. How about looking up Matthew 18. Good grief!

People like you give Christianity in general and Pentecostal in particular a very bad name. Who would want what you've got? Who would come to you for help?

May God have mercy on your soul!

"If the truth hurts, don't say it."

Attitudes like that is the reason hardly anyone preaches against sin anymore! And that is the reason sin is taking over the church!

[mizpeh]

You may not have joined specifically to promote a concert, but you did start a thread (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=10854) on it . If you wish to fellowship with a homosexual, go right ahead. But as an owner and an admin of this forum, I am not going to stand by and give credence to this man.

As far as name calling, if the man is a homosexual, am I name calling?? And would it be accurate to call a homosexual a pervert???

Homosexuality is a Perversion from the original intent of God when he made man. :drama

But of course, you aren't being politically correct or polite! I wonder what someone would say if you called homosexuality a sin! Which is worse...to be called a sinner or a pervert?

[acharris]

WHO IS DEFENDING HOMOSEXUALITY? NO ONE! I'm trying to defend someone from the relentless false attacks against him!

[stmatthew]

Old Bro. Glass said, "If the truth hurts, don't say it." If you feel that your information is true (I DON'T), you should share it in the proper forum. How about looking up Matthew 18. Good grief!

People like you give Christianity in general and Pentecostal in particular a very bad name. Who would want what you've got? Who would come to you for help?

May God have mercy on your soul!


Who is the judge now????

So Bro Glass never preached against sin?? I am not the one that came and posted a thread about a homosexual having a concert. YOU POSTED IT OPENLY, thus I responded openly. I have that responsibility as a Christian, and as an owner of AFF. Whether you accept the info or not is up to you. But others that read here are going to read both sides and then they can make their own educated choice.

[Rev]

WHO IS DEFENDING HOMOSEXUALITY? NO ONE! I'm trying to defend someone from the relentless false attacks against him!

False attacks? You do know about the mall thing don't you?

[acharris]

Who is the judge now????

So Bro Glass never preached against sin?? I am not the one that came and posted a thread about a homosexual having a concert. YOU POSTED IT OPENLY, thus I responded openly. I have that responsibility as a Christian, and as an owner of AFF. Whether you accept the info or not is up to you. But others that read here are going to read both sides and then they can make their own educated choice.

I DID NOT POST IT! Someone else did.

[acharris]

False attacks? You do know about the mall thing don't you?

That was nearly 20 years ago! Have you sinned in the past 20 years, brother? Did God forgive you? Just maybe he's forgiven Lanny, too!

[Rev]

That was nearly 20 years ago! Have you sinned in the past 20 years, brother? Did God forgive you? Just maybe he's forgiven Lanny, too!

Did he repent? Do UPC pastors use him now?

[stmatthew]

WHO IS DEFENDING HOMOSEXUALITY? NO ONE! I'm trying to defend someone from the relentless false attacks against him!


IS it true that the man sinned against God and a bunch of guys at JMC??? Has he repented to those that he hurt yet?? Has he changed his lifestyle yet??

You are only going on an assumption that he has because Marietta is traveling with him.

[stmatthew]

I DID NOT POST IT! Someone else did.

is this you, or do we have 2 acharris's here??


THE "ORIGINAL" LANNY WOLFE TRIO REUNION CONCERT

Saturday, Jan. 26, 2008
7 p.m.
CENTRAL ASSEMBLY OF GOD
700 Highway 80
Bossier City, Louisiana
www.centralonthehill.com

Come hear Lanny, Marietta, and Dave in this historic reunion concert sing your favorites.
Bonita Peterson will be playing the organ.
Former JCM musicians and singers are invited to sing in the choir.
Call Minister of Music, Rev. Carlton Gilmer, at (318) 949-0010

Pastor Andy Harris cordially invites the public to attend!

Free admission. A love offering will be received.

For more information call (318) 949-0010.

[mizpeh]

Did he repent? Do UPC pastors use him now?

What does it matter if UPC pastors use him or not? If he repented and God forgave him then whether or not a UPC pastor would not use him is beside the point.

[Rev]

What does it matter if UPC pastors use him or not? If he repented and God forgave him then whether or not a UPC pastor would not use him is beside the point.

The point is that even UPC pastors will normally use someone that has truly repented and been restored.

[Weary Pilgrim]

That was nearly 20 years ago! Have you sinned in the past 20 years, brother? Did God forgive you? Just maybe he's forgiven Lanny, too!


Again I ask you on this thread,If it was your son would you be having him minister in your pulpit?

Do you know for certain it's only been 20 years ago???

[Weary Pilgrim]

Did he repent? Do UPC pastors use him now?



He had a similar scandal with a teenage boy in the Chicago area as early as 2 years ago and was asked to leave the church.

as they say,once a predator,usually always a predator.

[stmatthew]

Again I ask you on this thread,If it was your son would you be having him minister in your pulpit?

Do you know for certain it's only been 20 years ago???

It doesn't take but a few moments of talking to the man to know that he is still entrenched in this lifestyle.

[Steadfast]

I am not your enemy. And I am a very merciful person. But I will NOT overlook the sin of homosexuality. The family unit is continually in a battle in this world. I am hearing more and more preachers, and saints, "coming out". I refuse to be silent when this sin that has the potential of making one reprobate is becoming so prevolent and accepted in our society.

And I will not stay silent when the promotion of a concert with a known homosexual is taking place. AFF has enough of a stigma to overcome. I am not going to allow promotion of a homosexual lifestyle to be another mark against it.

StMatt...















Thank You.

[acharris]

is this you, or do we have 2 acharris's here??


Thad - POSTED 12/10/07
Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,005

PRESS RELEASE!!! Original Lanny Wolfe Trio in Reunion Concert!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PRESS RELEASE



THE ORIGINAL

LANNY WOLFE TRIO


REUNION CONCERT

with the Central Assembly of God Sanctuary Choir under the direction of Carlton Gilmer



Saturday, Jan. 26, 2008

7 p.m.



CENTRAL ASSEMBLY OF GOD

700 Highway 80

Bossier City, Louisiana



Come hear Lanny, Marietta, and Dave in this historic reunion concert sing your favorites like:

Surely the Presence (of the Lord is in this Place)
More than Wonderful
Someone is Praying for You
Whatever it Takes
God’s Wonderful People
Only Jesus Can Satisfy Your Soul
Precious Blood
Greater is He that is in Me
A Brand New Touch
There’s Something in the Air
and many more
Pastor Andy Harris cordially invites the public to attend!

Free admission. A love offering will be received.

For more information call (318) 949-0010.

Lanny Wolfe (born February 2, 1942, In Columbus, Ohio) is a multiple award-winning U.S. songwriter in Gospel music, Southern Gospel, and Contemporary Christian music genres. He has won two Dove Awards (Gospel Music Association) in 1984 for Song of the Year, and Songwriter of the Year for his song, More than Wonderful, a song whose recording by gospel singers Sandi Patti & Larnelle Harris earned them a Grammy award. He has also served as a member of the Board of Directors of the Gospel Music Association.

Influence on Gospel Music

Although his name is not a household name among Christian worshippers, Lanny Wolfe’s influence on gospel music is tremendous. Known mostly to only church worship leaders, other songwriters, and other Gospel music performers, he was nonetheless a pioneer in progressing modern church music in Pentecostal and Charismatic churches from traditional hymns or folk-style singing to more sophisticated worship styles with arranged or pre-recorded music, using styles of music influenced by pop-culture and black gospel music.

He heavily influenced the greater world of gospel music during the 1970’s and 1980’s. While people throughout Christianity may be able to hum a Wolfe tune, most of his day-to-day career was spent as the Dean of the School of Music at a Pentecostal bible school, Jackson College of Ministries.

Lanny Wolfe influenced gospel music in two ways: 1) through recordings of original music, and 2) through his once-popular National Music Ministry Conference, an annual conference hosted by the aforementioned bible school in Jackson, Mississippi, where Wolfe worked from 1974 until 1993. He was a brilliant composer – using his education in music to introduce more sophisticated music styles to church audiences more familiar with southern or folk gospel. Using a tantalizing mix of Southern gospel song formulas, emotionally expressive musical phrasings more common in black churches, and classical, popular, or even “jazzy” music arrangements, he played an integral part in elevating the type and styles of music performed in worship services in Christian congregations.

His original music was performed and released by his trio, the Lanny Wolfe Trio, originally composed of himself, his then-wife, Marietta Wolfe, and Dave Peterson. During the 80’s, the group added others as Dave Peterson departed, followed by his wife who left to raise their children. Eventually, the group performed as Lanny Wolfe and the Lanny Wolfe Trio – the trio itself comprising young talent mostly taken from the student body of the Jackson College of Ministries. His last three albums listed the troupe simply as The Lanny Wolfe Singers. On his last album, the “Singers” were from a local church where he ministered at, since he was no longer affiliated with JCM.

His Music

Like his method of musical contribution, music styles attributed to Lanny Wolfe were also varied. His original music picked up on styles within pop culture, and often included the soft, symphonic style of pop music during the ‘70’s. In his song, I Feel Good, he even pulled off adapting a little bit of the “James Brown Sound” to that up-tempo song. His trio often recorded using London-based orchestras, often arranged by the famed gospel music producer, Lari Goss.

Music at his conference, except for a few select songs, was not original to him. He busily mined other non-mainstream gospel genres for material, often using music recorded by black gospel choirs (such as Mississippi Mass Choir, or Rev. Milton Brunson and the Thompson Community Singers) for material.

His influence remains in Pentecostal/Charismatic worship music since many worship leaders are well adept at finding or creating the same sound. Many Christian recording artists studied under his leadership, such as Geron Davis (“Standing on Holy Ground”), Mark Carouthers (“Mercy Seat”), among others.

Biography

Lanny Wolfe, according to his website, learned how to play the piano by ear, a talent that was used in his local church growing up. He went to Ohio State University and received his baccalaureate degree in Business education, and began teaching public schools. Going to night school, he finished his MBA there as well.

Being a talented church musician, he was offered a job a Pentecostal bible school in California to teach worship music – which led him to return to a traditional learning atmosphere where he eventually received his bachelor’s degree in Music Education from San Jose State University. He eventually finished a second Master’s in the same field.

He headed the music departments at the following bible schools: Christian Life College in Stockton, California from 1965 to 1966; Gateway College of Evangelism in St. Louis, Missouri from 1968 to 1974; and at Jackson College of Ministries in Jackson, Mississippi from 1974 to 1993.

Currently, he serves as the music director at a charismatic non-denominational church in Houston, as well as being a music instructor at South Texas Bible Institute, also in Houston, Texas.

Discography

Studio & Live Recordings (Albums)

There’s Something in the Air
Let’s Sing a Song About Jesus
Come On, Let’s Praise Him
Shout It, Jesus is Coming!
A Brand New Touch
Have A Nice Day
Rejoice with Exceeding Great Joy
Can’t Stop the Music
Through the Years
I’m Gonna Praise the Lord (Anyway that I can)
Children of Azusa Street
Just Keep Praising Him
Father Love
Never Have to Say Goodbye Again Rejoice . . . LIVE
An Evening with the Lanny Wolfe Trio
Make a Joyful Noise
Lanny Wolfe and the Lanny Wolfe Trio LIVE
Significant Songs of Interest

Surely the Presence (of the Lord is in this Place)
More than Wonderful
Someone is Praying for You
Whatever it Takes
God’s Wonderful People
Only Jesus Can Satisfy Your Soul
Children of Azusa Street
Precious Blood
Greater is He that is in Me
Brand New Touch

[Rev]

He had a similar scandal with a teenage boy in the Chicago area as early as 2 years ago and was asked to leave the church.

as they say,once a predator,usually always a predator.

I think you just put a stop to everything - thank you

[acharris]

Again I ask you on this thread,If it was your son would you be having him minister in your pulpit?

Do you know for certain it's only been 20 years ago???

If I had truly forgiven him. The purpose of the concert is the draw sinners to repentance, reclaim backsliders, and bring healing to hurting hearts.

[stmatthew]

I think you just put a stop to everything - thank you

No, because some will overlook sin to be entertained.

[Rev]

If I had truly forgiven him. The purpose of the concert is the draw sinners to repentance, reclaim backsliders, and bring healing to hurting hearts.

Doesn't make any difference what the purpose is! Did you Diamond Jim's last post?

[stmatthew]

If I had truly forgiven him. The purpose of the concert is the draw sinners to repentance, reclaim backsliders, and bring healing to hurting hearts.

Maybe the singer will be drawn to repentance.

[SecretWarrior]

If I had truly forgiven him. The purpose of the concert is the draw sinners to repentance, reclaim backsliders, and bring healing to hurting hearts.

LOL!!! You are going to have LW in your pulpit to draw sinners to repentance????? :happydance:happydance:happydance

[Rev]

No, because some will overlook sin to be entertained.

So right! Some of the same people that will drive miles and miles to listen to someone sing will hardly go to church on church nights.

[Rev]

He had a similar scandal with a teenage boy in the Chicago area as early as 2 years ago and was asked to leave the church.

as they say,once a predator,usually always a predator.

You know if I had been taking up for someone like this I would just crawl out the back door and never post again!

[embonpoint]

If I had truly forgiven him. The purpose of the concert is the draw sinners to repentance, reclaim backsliders, and bring healing to hurting hearts.

Its not the purpose people here have a problem with, it is the effect.
You can put a tourniquet around someones neck with the purpose of stopping bleeding from a head wound, but they will still be just as dead when you are done.

[StMark]

acharris,

I'm not here to attack you Bruh,but try to understand that LW was in the UPC for probably over 30 years.A lot of people here know the whole history and i think what bothers a lot of people is that his sins involved young people and the fact that little if anything was done. I went to JCM myself so I have a little insight.
Perhaps if Lanny would make some type of restitution?? I don't know really

[stmatthew]

LOL!!! You are going to have LW in your pulpit to draw sinners to repentance????? :happydance:happydance:happydance

It will be a gay old time!








sorry, but i just couldn't resist.:toofunny

[SoCaliUPC]

Thad - POSTED 12/10/07
Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,005

PRESS RELEASE!!! Original Lanny Wolfe Trio in Reunion Concert!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PRESS RELEASE



THE ORIGINAL

LANNY WOLFE TRIO


REUNION CONCERT

with the Central Assembly of God Sanctuary Choir under the direction of Carlton Gilmer



Saturday, Jan. 26, 2008

7 p.m.



CENTRAL ASSEMBLY OF GOD

700 Highway 80

Bossier City, Louisiana



Come hear Lanny, Marietta, and Dave in this historic reunion concert sing your favorites like:

.........

Matt....I say BAN THAD!! Kick him outta here!!!!

[Rev]

It will be a gay old time!








sorry, but i just couldn't resist.:toofunny

I vote to take the LW thread off this site.

[Steadfast]

If I had truly forgiven him. The purpose of the concert is the draw sinners to repentance, reclaim backsliders, and bring healing to hurting hearts.

In a false doctrine Church no less?

[Rev]

In a false doctrine Church no less?

Where have you been all night? Oh yes, church! :toofunny

[Sandra]

I pray for Lanny and will probably try and go to the concert.

Marietta has always been such an inspiration. She is Apostolic and to my knowledge is still attracted to the opposite sex.
Dave Peterson is UPC, he is a dear friend. My going to this concert is not all about Lanny. I know there will be many friends from my past there. It will be fun.

[Steadfast]

I fear it's going to hurt a lot more than the folks taking up for Lanny at this point. Let's just say that I know the third member of the trio very well. He's a good man and has a great wife. He travels and sings and even, from what I hear, is preaching a little along the way.

Since news of this 'reunion' stuff leaked out I've had several folks that he generally sings for yearly tell me they would NEVER have him again. It's sad, too, because this man is a good man... a blast to be around and will keep you laughing. GREAT voice.

I think that matters little on his 'resume', however, if your latest job was being a tenor for someone whose reputation was a victim of suicide years ago.

[Steadfast]

Where have you been all night? Oh yes, church! :toofunny

GREAT service, by the way. We're in revival and our Evangelist wanted to go to BOTT so I preached myself tonight: "How To Know That You Are NOT Saved".

While I was preaching to put a fire under some 'sitting Saints' we had a house full of visitors and saw some more get the Holy Ghost tonight... overall a great night!

[Sandra]

I fear it's going to hurt a lot more than the folks taking up for Lanny at this point. Let's just say that I know the third member of the trio very well. He's a good man and has a great wife. He travels and sings and even, from what I hear, is preaching a little along the way.

Since news of this 'reunion' stuff leaked out I've had several folks that he generally sings for yearly tell me they would NEVER have him again. It's sad, too, because this man is a good man... a blast to be around and will keep you laughing. GREAT voice.

I think that matters little on his 'resume', however, if your latest job was being a tenor for someone whose reputation was a victim of suicide years ago.

He can call me, I will keep him busy. When I started traveling out of the UPC, I heard this same stuff. " people will stop using you vicki"!!!
Been there, done it, heard it. He will be fine, he needs to keep going and don't look back.
God is his Source, not these preachers that are unhappy with his decision.

[stmatthew]

GREAT service, by the way. We're in revival and our Evangelist wanted to go to BOTT so I preached myself tonight: "How To Know That You Are NOT Saved".

While I was preaching to put a fire under some 'sitting Saints' we had a house full of visitors and saw some more get the Holy Ghost tonight... overall a great night!

Did you have an ego problem when you preached?? hehehe

[Steadfast]

He can call me, I will keep him busy. When I started traveling out of the UPC, I heard this same stuff. " people will stop using you vicki"!!!
Been there, done it, heard it. He will be fine, he needs to keep going and don't look back.
God is his Source, not these preachers that are unhappy with his decisiion.

For you, Vicki, it may have worked fine. For Dave? In my opinion that would be his destruction. I know him well as do you... but, trust me, I know him in a whole different dynamic.

Dave is one of the funniest, most talented people you'll ever meet. Having talked to me about many of his past experiences I'm very surprised that he's even considering this reunion thing.

[Steadfast]

Did you have an ego problem when you preached?? hehehe

Not that I know of...

I was, however, politically incorrect at various points during my sermon.


:happydance:scripture:happydance

[Rev]

For you, Vicki, it may have worked fine. For Dave? In my opinion that would be his destruction. I know him well as do you... but, trust me, I know him in a whole different dynamic.

Dave is one of the funniest, most talented people you'll ever meet. Having talked to me about many of his past experiences I'm very surprised that he's even considering this reunion thing.

Did he ever say to you, "Yall are great, yall are great?

[rrford]

The mall ordeal was actually only about 15 years ago. At least the one he was arrested for.

[Steadfast]

Did he ever say to you, "Yall are great, yall are great?

All the time...

TRUE STORY: One day a lot of our relatives were standing outside of our house and Dave and Tita were there, too. During this time my son came up on his horse (my oldest is a huge horse lover) and Dave (the MASTER of asking questions) started in. The conversation went as such:

"Are horses smart?"

"Absolutely, they can learn all kinds of things"

"Can they learn different tricks and stuff?"

"Sure, they do it all the time."

"So you're saying they are, like, smart as dogs and stuff?"

"Oh yea. Most horses are smart like that, I'd say."

And then, as God be my witness, Dave leaned over into the ear of the horse and said - with my son still sitting in the saddle...

"Roll over, boy, roll over"
"Play dead, pretty boy, play dead"
"Come on, boy, roll over for me!"

The look on my son's face... priceless!

[acharris]

For you, Vicki, it may have worked fine. For Dave? In my opinion that would be his destruction. I know him well as do you... but, trust me, I know him in a whole different dynamic.

Dave is one of the funniest, most talented people you'll ever meet. Having talked to me about many of his past experiences I'm very surprised that he's even considering this reunion thing.


It's amazing how that when someone takes up for a friend who has had problems in his past, everyone thinks that it will destroy them. Any organization that would destroy such a man who is trying to restore a friend is no organization I would even WANT to be a part of.

Friendship is more enduring than denominations, isn't it?

[rrford]

It's amazing how that when someone takes up for a friend who has had problems in his past, everyone thinks that it will destroy them. Any organization that would destroy such a man who is trying to restore a friend is no organization I would even WANT to be a part of.

Friendship is more enduring than denominations, isn't it?

An group that would allow homosexuals on their platform is not a group I care to be a part of.

[Steadfast]

It's amazing how that when someone takes up for a friend who has had problems in his past, everyone thinks that it will destroy them. Any organization that would destroy such a man who is trying to restore a friend is no organization I would even WANT to be a part of.

Friendship is more enduring than denominations, isn't it?

acharris,

You haven't a clue of my relationship with Dave. You haven't a clue of what I'm talking about in that post. Furthermore, it has nothing to do with Dave 'taking up for a friend' but aligning himself with someone who has destroyed his reputation long ago in a very vile way.

It has nothing to do with any 'organization' but - for the record - it may be a good thing you're not in the UPC. Besides, Dave goes to many Churches that are not UPC and the people saying they won't have him back are both in and out of the organization.

Nice try. Batter out.

[Walkbyfaith7]

An group that would allow homosexuals on their platform is not a group I care to be a part of.

I agree it would be hard for me too.

But I don't have a problem with adulterers, liars, lookers at porn, holier than thou, etc, etc.

Is that kind of what you were thinking rrford?

[Steadfast]

I agree it would be hard for me too.

But I don't have a problem with adulterers, liars, lookers at porn, holier than thou, etc, etc.

Is that kind of what you were thinking rrford?

What a waste of good posting space.

[Walkbyfaith7]

What a waste of good posting space.

I guess you missed the point but it doesn't surprise me much.

[rrford]

I agree it would be hard for me too.

But I don't have a problem with adulterers, liars, lookers at porn, holier than thou, etc, etc.

Is that kind of what you were thinking rrford?

I think you and I both know that is not what I was refering to. The topic under discussion has been fairly linear. My post was to that topic.

It's a shame that you don't have a problem with adulterers, liars, etc. :ohplease

[acharris]

I agree it would be hard for me too.

But I don't have a problem with adulterers, liars, lookers at porn, holier than thou, etc, etc.

Is that kind of what you were thinking rrford?

hardy har har! :toofunny

[rrford]

What a waste of good posting space.

There seems to still be a good bit of that around here.

[Walkbyfaith7]

I think you and I both know that is not what I was refering to. The topic under discussion has been fairly linear. My post was to that topic.

It's a shame that you don't have a problem with adulterers, liars, etc. :ohplease

:shhh

[rrford]

hardy har har! :toofunny

Laugh on, ac, laugh on. But always remember "When God laughs, it isn't funny."

As for LW I do have facts and have dealt with the repercussions of his sins with young men first hand. So forgive my jaded view but it is based on fact and not supposition.

[Steadfast]

I guess you missed the point but it doesn't surprise me much.

The problem is that I've have been following your points on various threads and, frankly, I've got some doubts that you're really Apostolic. Either that or you have a really warped way of conveying your core beliefs.

It seems to me, WalkbyFaith7, that your main objective on AFF is to stir up a fight here and there. Strange, indeed. Most of us like good, solid dialogue and not the 'drive by postings' that reek of superiority and throw a few insults along the way.

Your post to rrford lacked any foundation of reasoning and tried to assume that he would accept anything but homosexuality. Again, warped reasoning screaming to the forefront.

But, then again, I'd say my opinion doens't surprise you much, either. :ohplease

[Walkbyfaith7]

Laugh on, ac, laugh on. But always remember "When God laughs, it isn't funny."

As for LW I do have facts and have dealt with the repercussions of his sins with young men first hand. So forgive my jaded view but it is based on fact and not supposition.

My post was hypothetical and not literal pertaining to a specific person as I don't know the situation you guys were talking about.

[Steadfast]

There seems to still be a good bit of that around here.

It does, however, appear that they are working on fixing that. For that we can be thankful!

[Walkbyfaith7]

Your post to rrford lacked any foundation of reasoning and tried to assume that he would accept anything but homosexuality. Again, warped reasoning screaming to the forefront.


It didn't lack reason at all. I think it is hard to exclude someone on the basis of sin because there are so many different kinds of sin that is put up with in the church.

If you kick someone out for homosexuality and then someone commits adultery and you say don't worry God will forgive you brother I think one needs to re-evaluate his or her judgment, logic and bias.

[Walkbyfaith7]

It does, however, appear that they are working on fixing that. For that we can be thankful!

And what are you really trying to say preacher?

[rrford]

It didn't lack reason at all. I think it is hard to exclude someone on the basis of sin because there are so many different kinds of sin that is put up with in the church.

If you kick someone out for homosexuality and then someone commits adultery and you say don't worry God will forgive you brother I think one needs to re-evaluate his or her judgment, logic and bias.

No one said anyhting about not extending forgiveness.

[Steadfast]

It didn't lack reason at all. I think it is hard to exclude someone on the basis of sin because there are so many different kinds of sin that is put up with in the church.

If you kick someone out for homosexuality and then someone commits adultery and you say don't worry God will forgive you brother I think one needs to re-evaluate his or her judgment, logic and bias.

You're reasoning here would be solely predicated on having proof of actual repentance, proving one's self and restoration. There is no proof of that.

rrford is in a better condition to understand the depth of his iniquity and any attempts at repentance or restitution than most anyone I know. I'll trust his opinion on this explicitly.

[Steadfast]

And what are you really trying to say preacher?

I'm not 'trying' to say anything. I said what I meant: it appears that the Administrators of AFF are making a commendable attempt to clean up some of the 'trouble spots' on the forum.

They have had a more visible presence lately and haven't been afraid to take action when needed. That gives people like you and I a chance to dialogue without others devouring the 'good' with blathering attacks on everything we believe.

I, along with what seems to be most of the others, appreciate what they do and the effort it takes to keep a forum running smoothly.

[Walkbyfaith7]

You know these politicians say things with meaning behind them and then when they get called on it they try to explain away the real meaning in their heart and replace it with political jargon.

[MissBrattified]

Is there any responsibility on LW's part to publicly denounce the homosexual lifestyle and/or make some sort of restitution for the past? (Obviously some things are beyond repair)

It seems to me that when someone is in a position of leadership, power and/or influence, they have a greater responsibility to make things right with the people they have injured, as well as with God.

Time doesn't heal all wounds.

[Steadfast]

You know these politicians say things with meaning behind them and then when they get called on it they try to explain away the real meaning in their heart and replace it with political jargon.

Walkby... if you are referring to me, trust me, I'm not worried about anything you can 'call me' on. I'm not real good at 'mixing' words so, where I'm concerned, you pretty much can ask for an explaination and get it.

I've nothing to prove nor hide. This forum has taken an incredibly better turn in the last few weeks. I expressed as much when rrford made his statement.

You asked. I answered. See how easy that works?

[Steadfast]

Is there any responsibility on LW's part to publicly denounce the homosexual lifestyle and/or make some sort of restitution for the past? (Obviously some things are beyond repair)

It seems to me that when someone is in a position of leadership, power and/or influence, they have a greater responsibility to make things right with the people they have injured, as well as with God.

Time doesn't heal all wounds.


:shhh











(You may be my new hero!)

[Joseph Miller]

The time has come where I feel I must leave the AFF. I have enjoyed the friends I have made, but I've not enjoyed the enemies I've made. I just hope those who are so judgmental here can live a sinless life, because God will not forgive those who refuse to forgive. St. Matthew put the nail in the coffin.

However, I will be praying for those who speak the truth in love.

God bless you all,
acharris

I am not your enemy. And I am a very merciful person. But I will NOT overlook the sin of homosexuality. The family unit is continually in a battle in this world. I am hearing more and more preachers, and saints, "coming out". I refuse to be silent when this sin that has the potential of making one reprobate is becoming so prevolent and accepted in our society.

And I will not stay silent when the promotion of a concert with a known homosexual is taking place. AFF has enough of a stigma to overcome. I am not going to allow promotion of a homosexual lifestyle to be another mark against it.



I am scared to ask, but after reading the first 2 posts of this thread I am wondering, Who came out of the closet? Why do some people think this kind of thing is ok?

[Walkbyfaith7]

And what are you really trying to say preacher?

Walkby... if you are referring to me, trust me, I'm not worried about anything you can 'call me' on. I'm not real good at 'mixing' words so, where I'm concerned, you pretty much can ask for an explaination and get it.

I've nothing to prove nor hide. This forum has taken an incredibly better turn in the last few weeks. I expressed as much when rrford made his statement.

You asked. I answered. See how easy that works?

Thank you, I appreciate being upfront with communication.

[Walkbyfaith7]

I am scared to ask, but after reading the first 2 posts of this thread I am wondering, Who came out of the closet? Why do some people think this kind of thing is ok?

Where are these two posts? I don't see them but on your quote.

Thanks.

[Joseph Miller]

Where are these two posts? I don't see them but on your quote.

Thanks.


Post number 1 and 2

[Walkbyfaith7]

Post number 1 and 2

lol thanks

[Weary Pilgrim]

An group that would allow homosexuals on their platform is not a group I care to be a part of.


Let's be honest here,wasn't LW allowed to be on our platforms for years?
surely you don't believe that no one knew what was going on all those years do you.

[StMark]

Wow :oops

[LaGirl]

The point is that even UPC pastors will normally use someone that has truly repented and been restored.

UPC has nothing to do with it. most UPC churches would not have Dottie Rambo either....does that mean she has sinned?

[Sarah]

Old Bro. Glass said, "If the truth hurts, don't say it." If you feel that your information is true (I DON'T), you should share it in the proper forum. How about looking up Matthew 18. Good grief!

People like you give Christianity in general and Pentecostal in particular a very bad name. Who would want what you've got? Who would come to you for help?

May God have mercy on your soul!

AC, if I remember correctly, you said you had never heard of LW until recently. Is this true?

Most of us remember well what happened concerning him (LW) 20 or so years ago.

LW was someone that we, as an organization, loved, and looked up to. Guess you could say we were 'proud' of him.

I remember being astonished, and very hurt when 'things' came out in the open.

Have you had a chance to question him about all of this? And if so, is your mind clear as to what to believe, and how to handle it all? I know you are a pastor, and you realize that you need to be very careful as to who you have in your pulpit.

I've enjoyed reading most of your posts. You come across as being a gentleman.


I hope and pray that LW has made things right with God.

[Ferd]

Let's be honest here,wasn't LW allowed to be on our platforms for years?
surely you don't believe that no one knew what was going on all those years do you.

sombody delete my post if you think it ought to be, but my sister was at Jackson in 1979 and when her son was born, she would not let LW near him.

[Theresa]

sombody delete my post if you think it ought to be, but my sister was at Jackson in 1979 and when her son was born, she would not let LW near him.


I was in Jackson in 1979 too..and still in Jackson when all this mess hit the fan...

We didnt know. Sure, there were rumors and jokes..

BUT....any MAN with talent, especially musically, and education, was called "gay"...anyone who didnt SOUND like the southern man, was looked at funny..

we just chalked it up to the old north/south differences.


NO, we didnt really think he was gay...

and there was NEVER, EVER any fear he'd do anything IMPROPER with a child, the idea of that is just ludicrious to me

[Theresa]

Let's be honest here,wasn't LW allowed to be on our platforms for years?
surely you don't believe that no one knew what was going on all those years do you.

Lets be honest here....we've let _________________behind our pulpits, pastoring our churches for years?

surely you dont believe that no one knew what was going on all those years, do you?


((Insert any number of names of preachers/pastors to left the UPC to come out of the closet)) ((Or to just divorce their wives and marry their LONG TIME girlfriend))


why pick on LW?? If I'm not mistaken, he's always denied the allegations.

Sure, something happened....

but who really knows the whole story?

I'll add, SURE...it happened..things improper happened..


but I dont think it was ALLOWED to go on for years and years as folks imply.....I really dont. I think when it was found out that something was really wrong....he was dealt with

[Ferd]

I was in Jackson in 1979 too..and still in Jackson when all this mess hit the fan...

We didnt know. Sure, there were rumors and jokes..

BUT....any MAN with talent, especially musically, and education, was called "gay"...anyone who didnt SOUND like the southern man, was looked at funny..

we just chalked it up to the old north/south differences.


NO, we didnt really think he was gay...

and there was NEVER, EVER any fear he'd do anything IMPROPER with a child, the idea of that is just ludicrious to me

it may be to you. I just know what my sister has told me over the years. That doesnt mean there was any evidence of such. just that she was very leary.

[AmazingGrace]

it may be to you. I just know what my sister has told me over the years. That doesnt mean there was any evidence of such. just that she was very leary.

Moms sometimes have the best "gut feelings" around!

[Theresa]

it may be to you. I just know what my sister has told me over the years. That doesnt mean there was any evidence of such. just that she was very leary.

I dont deny LW has issues. Something bad was going on there...

I just cant accept that it was ALLOWED to continue for years.

[LadyChocolate]

:girlpopcorn:iagree

[retsambeW]

WHO IS DEFENDING HOMOSEXUALITY? NO ONE! I'm trying to defend someone from the relentless false attacks against him!


Uhm, excuse me a moment. When the original incident took place with LW, it was in the public domain. I personally saw the arrest report. If he has repented since, I would think as public a figure as he was, he would go public with a statement.

So, of a truth, I hope he has repented, but unless I had heard he did, I wouldn't go across the street to hear him.

Not at all judgemental, just stating facts as they are.

[retsambeW]

Truth is now under constant attack. I heard a UPC evangelist and pastor just tonight say that a man that had water poured on him was saved, the other one said that a man that was never baptized was saved. And you wonder why some men are pulling out?

If you heard what you said, that is a blow to many of us choosing to remain UPC. Because we have no intention of compromising anything. I know my DS doesn't desire to drop any standards, and he has been taken to task on this forum for supposedly dropping them. I have had two very long conversations with him recently, and find him to be committed to the truth, regardless of what others say or hear.

If the two men you heard say that did indeed say it, shame on them.

[SoCaliUPC]

I dont deny LW has issues. Something bad was going on there...

I just cant accept that it was ALLOWED to continue for years.

Theresa....I have heard over and over and over again how these things WERE allowed to continue for years because he was the "name" back then and the "draw" for JCM. It wasn't until the "public incident" is where they could not hide it anymore.

[StillStanding]

Uhm, excuse me a moment. When the original incident took place with LW, it was in the public domain. I personally saw the arrest report. If he has repented since, I would think as public a figure as he was, he would go public with a statement.

So, of a truth, I hope he has repented, but unless I had heard he did, I wouldn't go across the street to hear him.

Not at all judgemental, just stating facts as they are.

For the record, I have asked some that were very close to him if LW ever came out and denied the rumors. They said that they didn't know!

If those closest to him don't know, you can pretty safely assume that a statement was never made!

[retsambeW]

For the record, I have asked some that were very close to him if LW ever came out and denied the rumors. They said that they didn't know!

If those closest to him don't know, you can pretty safely assume that a statement was never made!

PM,

I never tell all I know, as you know :D, and I agree with what you say. I have known some of those closest to him at the time, and hear nothing of any public repentence.

[simplyme]

I am not your enemy. And I am a very merciful person. But I will NOT overlook the sin of homosexuality. The family unit is continually in a battle in this world. I am hearing more and more preachers, and saints, "coming out". I refuse to be silent when this sin that has the potential of making one reprobate is becoming so prevolent and accepted in our society.

And I will not stay silent when the promotion of a concert with a known homosexual is taking place. AFF has enough of a stigma to overcome. I am not going to allow promotion of a homosexual lifestyle to be another mark against it.

Amen, finally someone tough enough to stand firm on something that the lORD has already said that is WRONG.
Now I do feel sorry for those who 'FEEL' that they are in the wrong body but those feelings eminate from spirits that are not of GOD, so I am compelled to pray for such as are bound in this 'nightmarish' existence, I know many even some whom are family, and its tragic, it really is.

But "promote" this as a lifestyle? Only if one doesn't give a hoot about the soul., I can't tell someone its ok to do this.
Amongst other things.

[simplyme]

"If the truth hurts, don't say it."

Attitudes like that is the reason hardly anyone preaches against sin anymore! And that is the reason sin is taking over the church!
..and one of the many reasons many souls are condemned to a REAL lake of fire.

[Ferd]

I dont deny LW has issues. Something bad was going on there...

I just cant accept that it was ALLOWED to continue for years.

I cant speak to what was or was not known as fact in the years before the incident. I can state clearly that many people suspected something wasnt right.

but back in those days there was quite a bit that wasnt right in Jackson. LW was just one of several issues that seemed to be going on.

[Rev]

It does, however, appear that they are working on fixing that. For that we can be thankful!

What's taking so long?

[Rev]

Is there any responsibility on LW's part to publicly denounce the homosexual lifestyle and/or make some sort of restitution for the past? (Obviously some things are beyond repair)

It seems to me that when someone is in a position of leadership, power and/or influence, they have a greater responsibility to make things right with the people they have injured, as well as with God.

Time doesn't heal all wounds.

Well said! The guy needs to quit singing in churches. I should think his name is mud forever in most people's opinion.

[Rev]

UPC has nothing to do with it. most UPC churches would not have Dottie Rambo either....does that mean she has sinned?

Obviously, yes

[LadyChocolate]

Is there any responsibility on LW's part to publicly denounce the homosexual lifestyle and/or make some sort of restitution for the past? (Obviously some things are beyond repair)

It seems to me that when someone is in a position of leadership, power and/or influence, they have a greater responsibility to make things right with the people they have injured, as well as with God.

Time doesn't heal all wounds.

It sends the wrong message ( messages). If you are popular enough and bring in enough money, they we'll over look things. Too many people have been hurt from this whole situation. When they are allowed to continue, it just says that it's okay to hurt people or be a stumbling block to someone but only as long as you can still bring in the crowds $$$. jmo

[Rev]

If you heard what you said, that is a blow to many of us choosing to remain UPC. Because we have no intention of compromising anything. I know my DS doesn't desire to drop any standards, and he has been taken to task on this forum for supposedly dropping them. I have had two very long conversations with him recently, and find him to be committed to the truth, regardless of what others say or hear.

If the two men you heard say that did indeed say it, shame on them.

Really, UPC or not, really doesn't have anything to do with it. Oneness is becoming terribly polluted and I believe and pray that there is a purge coming. I think the Lord is already sick and is about to spew a lot out of his mouth. When he gets finished with his glittering flaming sword we might be surprised what's going to be left.

[Rev]

For the record, I have asked some that were very close to him if LW ever came out and denied the rumors. They said that they didn't know!

If those closest to him don't know, you can pretty safely assume that a statement was never made!

Right after it happened he went by and told Bro. Barnes that it wasn't true. Bro. Barnes didn't say if he believed him or not. But obviously he lied to Bro. Barnes. Can you imagine that!?

[Praxeas]

The time has come where I feel I must leave the AFF. I have enjoyed the friends I have made, but I've not enjoyed the enemies I've made. I just hope those who are so judgmental here can live a sinless life, because God will not forgive those who refuse to forgive. St. Matthew put the nail in the coffin.

However, I will be praying for those who speak the truth in love.

God bless you all,
acharris
Just because someone does not agree with everything you say does not make them an enemy.

[StillStanding]

Don't ask!

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r227/Steinwayman/New-LWT2.gif

[LaGirl]

Obviously, yes

i dont think so. i am proud to say i attend a UPC church and dottie held a concert AT OUR CHURCH last march!

[Theresa]

Theresa....I have heard over and over and over again how these things WERE allowed to continue for years because he was the "name" back then and the "draw" for JCM. It wasn't until the "public incident" is where they could not hide it anymore.

I was told from the horses mouth they didnt know....

*shrug*

[Theresa]

For the record, I have asked some that were very close to him if LW ever came out and denied the rumors. They said that they didn't know!

If those closest to him don't know, you can pretty safely assume that a statement was never made!

he said to me personally:

"there is more to the story that people don't know"

he never denied or discredited the rumor that WAS being spread....

[Theresa]

Don't ask!

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r227/Steinwayman/New-LWT2.gif

Hair Club for Men ad??

[StMark]

i dont think so. i am proud to say i attend a UPC church and dottie held a concert AT OUR CHURCH last march!

Lagirl,

are you aware of what has transpired at the church that Reba and Donnie pastor??? I sure hope Dottie doesn't attend there- that would disasterous

[Theresa]

I cant speak to what was or was not known as fact in the years before the incident. I can state clearly that many people suspected something wasnt right.

but back in those days there was quite a bit that wasnt right in Jackson. LW was just one of several issues that seemed to be going on.

LW wasnt the big issue back in the day...

[stmatthew]

i dont think so. i am proud to say i attend a UPC church and dottie held a concert AT OUR CHURCH last march!

The issue I have with bring in any person to "MINISTER" that is not looked at by the host church as spiritually right is that it tends to send a wrong signal to new saints, and ultimately it shows the church endorsing the one coming. Of course since the lines of salvation are becoming more and more skewed just about anyone can come and "MINISTER" to the Lambs wife.

[StMark]

I think he had the goods on a lot of others

[Theresa]

and I must make this disclaimer..

being close to the situation most all my life....my views are not always the most accurate. But I did relate what I was TOLD from the horses mouth...

and I agree with Mark - looking back...I think he had something on somebody

[StMark]

and I must make this disclaimer..

being close to the situation most all my life....my views are not always the most accurate. But I did relate what I was TOLD from the horses mouth...

and I agree with Mark - looking back...I think he had something on somebody


And there ya have it

[Rev]

i dont think so. i am proud to say i attend a UPC church and dottie held a concert AT OUR CHURCH last march!

Pretty sad!

[Rev]

Hair Club for Men ad??

Right!

[Rev]

The issue I have with bring in any person to "MINISTER" that is not looked at by the host church as spiritually right is that it tends to send a wrong signal to new saints, and ultimately it shows the church endorsing the one coming. Of course since the lines of salvation are becoming more and more skewed just about anyone can come and "MINISTER" to the Lambs wife.

Wish I had said that!

[SoCaliUPC]

I was told from the horses mouth they didnt know....

*shrug*

Bro. Craft told you he had no idea???

What does the JCMers feel about this?

[Praxeas]

I personally do not care of LW has a homosexual disposition as long as he is repented of it and keeps it under the blood. Is he openly gay? Does anyone know for a fact LW has continuing homosexual relations? How many of us were fornicators and adulterers and if not for walking with the Lord could slip back into that lifestyle?

[Rev]

Bro. Craft told you he had no idea???

What does the JCMers feel about this?

I don't know what he did or didn't know, but what else could he say?

[SoCaliUPC]

and I must make this disclaimer..

being close to the situation most all my life....my views are not always the most accurate. But I did relate what I was TOLD from the horses mouth...

and I agree with Mark - looking back...I think he had something on somebody

and depending on what that is...you might ignore certain things as well.

[Rev]

I personally do not care of LW has a homosexual disposition as long as he is repented of it and keeps it under the blood. Is he openly gay? Does anyone know for a fact LW has continuing homosexual relations? How many of us were fornicators and adulterers and if not for walking with the Lord could slip back into that lifestyle?

Go back and read the posts! Two years ago!

[Theresa]

I personally do not care of LW has a homosexual disposition as long as he is repented of it and keeps it under the blood. Is he openly gay? Does anyone know for a fact LW has continuing homosexual relations? How many of us were fornicators and adulterers and if not for walking with the Lord could slip back into that lifestyle?

I dont think ANYONE knows the truth about everything.

No one knows the whole story but LW..and God

[Theresa]

why do we continue to discuss this? seriously?

I cant do it...*sigh*

[TRFrance]

As far as name calling, if the man is a homosexual, am I name calling?? And would it be accurate to call a homosexual a pervert???

The noun pervert is of course based on the verb from, "to pervert", which means
1 a: to cause to turn aside or away from what is good or true or morally right : corrupt (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/corrupt) b: to cause to turn aside or away from what is generally done or accepted : misdirect (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/misdirect)2 a: to divert to a wrong end or purpose : misuse (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/misuse) b: to twist the meaning or sense of : misinterpret (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/misinterpret)
If God has designed sex between men and women, (as scripture and nature itself make very clear), then homosexuality is by nature a perversion of God's intent for sexuality, thus it would not be incorrect to refer to such a person as a pervert.

Truth hurts sometimes.
It's strong language,I suppose. But Jesus used strong language too, didn't he? ... as did John the Baptist, Paul, Jude, etc...


Truth is now under constant attack. I heard a UPC evangelist and pastor just tonight say that a man that had water poured on him was saved, the other one said that a man that was never baptized was saved. And you wonder why some men are pulling out?

Its starting to look more and more to me like were witnessing the coming great falling away/apostasy that Paul spoke of.

...

[TRFrance]

I personally do not care of LW has a homosexual disposition as long as he is repented of it and keeps it under the blood. Is he openly gay? Does anyone know for a fact LW has continuing homosexual relations? How many of us were fornicators and adulterers and if not for walking with the Lord could slip back into that lifestyle?

Prax... this is the problem here.

LW had a very well known and visible ministry.

When he fell into moral failure it was also became widlely known (within Apostolic /UPC circles primarily)

Therefore, if he has indeed repented, it is fair to expect him to at least once make some kind of public admission of wrongdoing and repentance. From all that we know, that has not happened... not in front of any church... not by a statement on his website... nothing.

Until LW publicly acknowledges his sin and the error of his ways, it is natural that Bible-believing saints will be skeptical of his "ministry". New Testament teaching is very clear that unrepentant "saints" should be treated as outcasts by the rest of the body, until they repent of their sinful ways. (Matt 18/ 1Cor 5)

We would hold a minister of the word to that standard. Why shouldn't a prominent "minister" of music be held to a similar standard?


...

[StMark]

I dont think ANYONE knows the truth about everything.

No one knows the whole story but LW..and God


Are you 100% sure of this???

Pianoman,are you reading this???

[stmatthew]

Prax... this is the problem here.

LW had a very well known and visible ministry.

When he fell into moral failure it was also became widlely known (within Apostolic /UPC circles primarily)

Therefore, if he has indeed repented, it is fair to expect him to at least once make some kind of public admission of wrongdoing and repentance. From all that we know, that has not happened... not in front of any church... not by a statement on his website... nothing.

Until LW publicly acknowledges his sin and the error of his ways, it is natural that Bible-believing saints will be skeptical of his "ministry". New Testament teaching is very clear that unrepentant "saints" should be treated as outcasts by the rest of the body, until they repent of their sinful ways. (Matt 18/ 1Cor 5)

We would hold a minister of the word to that standard. Why shouldn't a prominent "minister" of music be held to a similar standard?


...

good post!

[StillStanding]

Are you 100% sure of this???

Pianoman,are you reading this???
hahahahaha! I've heard many stories from many different people. I had someone share an incident with me that I KNOW to be true.

The problem with rumors is that they can easily get s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d! I know more than I'm willing to talk about on this forum.

Oh.....and it goes beyond just LW!!! :eek:

[StMark]

hahahahaha! I've heard many stories from many different people. I had someone share an incident with me that I KNOW to be true.

The problem with rumors is that they can easily get s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d! I know more than I'm willing to talk about on this forum.

Oh.....and it goes beyond just LW!!! :eek:


that you're willing to talk about??? well spill it then:happydance

I know you know of one incident that happend on a tour that is 100% truth.

[StillStanding]

that you're willing to talk about??? well spill it then:happydance

I know you know of one incident that happend on a tour that is 100% truth.
:shhh :oops

[retsambeW]

:shhh :oops


You ROCK, PM! :D

[SoCaliUPC]

that you're willing to talk about??? well spill it then:happydance

I know you know of one incident that happend on a tour that is 100% truth.

Mark...tell about the incident and then Pianoman can verify if it is correct. :stirpot

[AmazingGrace]

that you're willing to talk about??? well spill it then:happydance

I know you know of one incident that happend on a tour that is 100% truth.

Silly he said he knows more THAN he is willing to talk about not THAt he is willing to talk about :)

[Theresa]

Are you 100% sure of this???

Pianoman,are you reading this???

I said the WHOLE story...not just what transpired at JCM.....

[StMark]

Mark...tell about the incident and then Pianoman can verify if it is correct. :stirpot


lol! nope pianoman would kill me but i'll tell you what, it would be an eye opener that's for sure

[LaGirl]

Lagirl,

are you aware of what has transpired at the church that Reba and Donnie pastor??? I sure hope Dottie doesn't attend there- that would disasterous

i only know what was said here. that is reba....not dottie.

[LaGirl]

Pretty sad!

not at all sad!

[simplyme]

Prax... this is the problem here.

LW had a very well known and visible ministry.

When he fell into moral failure it was also became widlely known (within Apostolic /UPC circles primarily)

Therefore, if he has indeed repented, it is fair to expect him to at least once make some kind of public admission of wrongdoing and repentance. From all that we know, that has not happened... not in front of any church... not by a statement on his website... nothing.

Until LW publicly acknowledges his sin and the error of his ways, it is natural that Bible-believing saints will be skeptical of his "ministry". New Testament teaching is very clear that unrepentant "saints" should be treated as outcasts by the rest of the body, until they repent of their sinful ways. (Matt 18/ 1Cor 5)

We would hold a minister of the word to that standard. Why shouldn't a prominent "minister" of music be held to a similar standard?


...

AMEN!
I would certainly expect to have to do that IF I did something wrong., but repented and wanted to come clean.

[Praxeas]

You may not have joined specifically to promote a concert, but you did start a thread (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=10854) on it . If you wish to fellowship with a homosexual, go right ahead. But as an owner and an admin of this forum, I am not going to stand by and give credence to this man.

As far as name calling, if the man is a homosexual, am I name calling?? And would it be accurate to call a homosexual a pervert???
Well...I've always wanted to call a few folks idiots and morons....because that is what they are...however they may disagree as might others. Personally Matt....I don't know what this man is other than for the hearsay stuff that goes around and honestly I don't see how not calling him a homosexual and pervert means as an admin or owner you or anyone else is approving of the man or his purported lifestyle

[Praxeas]

Did he repent? Do UPC pastors use him now?
You tell us...has he repented? Who cares if "UPC" pastors use him? And if he has repented and UPC Pastors still refuse to use him...what does that mean?

[Praxeas]

The point is that even UPC pastors will normally use someone that has truly repented and been restored.
That's not a point. That does not tell us LW has not repented

[Praxeas]

He had a similar scandal with a teenage boy in the Chicago area as early as 2 years ago and was asked to leave the church.

as they say,once a predator,usually always a predator.
Wow....I guess only certain people are fair game around here....HOpefully you know this is a fact and this is not merely slander...was it in the news?

[Praxeas]

No, because some will overlook sin to be entertained.
No they are not saying anything about over looking sin. What is wrong with you all? I can understand what he is saying. He is asking honest questions...has this man repented? If so why not give him a fair shake? Some say he has not repented? HOW do you know? I see rumors and gossip of the kind that has been condemned on this board before.

[Praxeas]

acharris,

I'm not here to attack you Bruh,but try to understand that LW was in the UPC for probably over 30 years.A lot of people here know the whole history and i think what bothers a lot of people is that his sins involved young people and the fact that little if anything was done. I went to JCM myself so I have a little insight.
Perhaps if Lanny would make some type of restitution?? I don't know really
Here is an interesting thing...you say this has happened. It was known and little to nothing was done. So the man was and is hung out to dry and branded for life....what happened to those people that looked the other way?

[Praxeas]

I guess you missed the point but it doesn't surprise me much.
Bro..in order for people to understand sarcasm you have to add a smiley or something otherwise it goes over our heads :toofunny

[Praxeas]

Go back and read the posts! Two years ago!
Two years ago what? Someone is saying something happened a whole two years ago? Did he repent? Was it true?

[Praxeas]

I dont think ANYONE knows the truth about everything.

No one knows the whole story but LW..and God
That is what I am saying. I remember when "the incident" happened, when he got arrested. Obviously the UPC has had a healthy grapevine for some time because it spread like wild fire...

And apparently according to some his "issue" was known about but nothing done. There are and have been other ministers to fall to different sins that are still ministering but received counseling...some thing they should have been stripped and kicked out of the UPC...then there are others that were protected and the victims were basically outcasts and labeled liars....whatever LW did....should not be justified but I wonder when the organizational uppers are going to repent if they have not already, for allowing this stuff.

Not only clamping down when it is found out, but rather than making them lepers of the org, we seek to bring healing to them as well as their victims

[Praxeas]

Prax... this is the problem here.

LW had a very well known and visible ministry.

When he fell into moral failure it was also became widlely known (within Apostolic /UPC circles primarily)

Therefore, if he has indeed repented, it is fair to expect him to at least once make some kind of public admission of wrongdoing and repentance. From all that we know, that has not happened... not in front of any church... not by a statement on his website... nothing.

Until LW publicly acknowledges his sin and the error of his ways, it is natural that Bible-believing saints will be skeptical of his "ministry". New Testament teaching is very clear that unrepentant "saints" should be treated as outcasts by the rest of the body, until they repent of their sinful ways. (Matt 18/ 1Cor 5)

We would hold a minister of the word to that standard. Why shouldn't a prominent "minister" of music be held to a similar standard?


...
If he was basically chased OUT of that Apostolic circles I don't know how he can make a public declaration any UPCer would accept...not only that given the attitudes that we often see in Oneness circles an admission would NOT help LW. Some folks would just feel justified in how they branded him and ostracized him..in fact he'd probably be ostracized even more....we can forgive and heal adulterers, fornicators, porn addicts and drug users but not gays....

[Praxeas]

Was LW given a chance to not just come clean but to receive healing and restoration? Or was he immediately ostracized? Why would the man attempt to reconcile to a group that he feels don't want him anyways? I don't know what is true or not, but I do know I have seen some hateful attitudes towards people that were or are homosexuals. Adulterers we can fix....drug addicts we can fix....porn addicts we can fix...fornicators we can fix....gays seem to be persona non grata, no matter how much they say they are saved and repented.

[Joseph Miller]

We need to learn how to restore people no matter what their sin. Everyone deserves a chance at grace.

[Praxeas]

We need to learn how to restore people no matter what their sin. Everyone deserves a chance at grace.
Im so glad to see you say that....but when it comes to homosexuality....I don't think we as an org are ready to do that

[mizpeh]

Im so glad to see you say that....but when it comes to homosexuality....I don't think we as an org are ready to do that

For some reason they would like a public apology. Is that demanded of in the scriptures?

Was Paul wrong for writing to the Galatians about Peter's sin of respect of persons? And did Paul say Peter gave a public apology?

[retsambeW]

Im so glad to see you say that....but when it comes to homosexuality....I don't think we as an org are ready to do that

Define restore.

Hypothetically, let's play the advocate for a moment. Suppose he has repented and made restitution, I would be the first to say it would be a shame to let his talent go to waste. He would not need a license to have his gifts be used. I would think restoration would be an easy process, though not all would believe, and many would never have him for a service. None the less, if real sorrow were displayed, not tears of I am sorry I got caught, some would no doubt do their best to see him restored.

Back to reality:

As public a figure as he was (good grief, I came from an ultra-con church where you went to hell for accidently letting your eyes stray towards a tv at a friend's home), when I found out he was going to be on the Grammy's to accept an award...was it More Than Wonderful?....I made sure to watch it. Imagine my shock, as my pastor taught against tuxedos! :D

He indeed was a public figure. Indeed any attempt at restoration of any kind would of necessity have to include a public statement of some kind.

[Rev]

You tell us...has he repented? Who cares if "UPC" pastors use him? And if he has repented and UPC Pastors still refuse to use him...what does that mean?

Read the posts. Questions have already been answered.

[Praxeas]

For some reason they would like a public apology. Is that demanded of in the scriptures?

Was Paul wrong for writing to the Galatians about Peter's sin of respect of persons? And did Paul say Peter gave a public apology?
Where did Paul say Peter had to give a public apology to everyone? I mean what constitutes a public apology? Did Paul cut peter off from the body before he could apologize? Would Peter's apology matter? probably but I don't think LWs apology or admission would mean squat to a lot of people in the UPC. When it comes to homosexuality that seems to be the unpardonable sin. Did Peter send a letter to every church announcing what a scum bag he was (admission) and then say he was sorry for his sins?

[Praxeas]

Read the posts. Questions have already been answered.
I saw accusations...that was all I saw.

[Rev]

I saw accusations...that was all I saw.

Then you didn't read the posts!

[Praxeas]

Define restore.Restore: Repair
Gal 6:1 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.

Hypothetically, let's play the advocate for a moment. Suppose he has repented and made restitution, I would be the first to say it would be a shame to let his talent go to waste. He would not need a license to have his gifts be used. I would think restoration would be an easy process, though not all would believe, and many would never have him for a service. None the less, if real sorrow were displayed, not tears of I am sorry I got caught, some would no doubt do their best to see him restored.
I don't think so....not in the UPC sorry to say. I have seen it on a local level...anyone that is a homosexual is suspect even after coming to the Lord....

Back to reality:

As public a figure as he was (good grief, I came from an ultra-con church where you went to hell for accidently letting your eyes stray towards a tv at a friend's home), when I found out he was going to be on the Grammy's to accept an award...was it More Than Wonderful?....I made sure to watch it. Imagine my shock, as my pastor taught against tuxedos! :D

He indeed was a public figure. Indeed any attempt at restoration of any kind would of necessity have to include a public statement of some kind.
A public statement to who? The org you were ostracized from? I don't see the point, maybe he does not either. Maybe he made such a statement to someone else...any org that took him in. What I am saying is all I see is rumors and talk. I have no idea of anything in this man's life. All I know is when he was arrested that event spread like wildfire throughout the UPC....what happened immediately after that? Was he just defrocked and shunned? Did the elders take him in and seek to restore him? Or was he just instantly an outcast? What constitutes a public admission or apology? Does he appear on TV? No that won't work. Does he send a letter to every UPC pastor? Does he tell the gen sup? Does he contact News Week? He needs to repent, if he has not...Does he need to contact every person in the UPC? And does it really really matter to the UPC? At this stage of being persona non grata, would it matter to LW? Can he repent and not admit to everyone his sins and then say he repented?

[Praxeas]

Then you didn't read the posts!
Apparently you did, but rather than give a quick answer you'd rather just keep posting how I need to read, I did not read...well I read through a lot but this thread is not important enough for me to spend all day catching up and if the post was that important for me to know Im sure you'd just give me a summary...so I guess Ill just remain ignorant as to how evil LW is :drama

[retsambeW]

Restore: Repair
Gal 6:1 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.


I don't think so....not in the UPC sorry to say. I have seen it on a local level...anyone that is a homosexual is suspect even after coming to the Lord....


A public statement to who? The org you were ostracized from? I don't see the point, maybe he does not either. Maybe he made such a statement to someone else...any org that took him in. What I am saying is all I see is rumors and talk. I have no idea of anything in this man's life. All I know is when he was arrested that event spread like wildfire throughout the UPC....what happened immediately after that? Was he just defrocked and shunned? Did the elders take him in and seek to restore him? Or was he just instantly an outcast? What constitutes a public admission or apology? Does he appear on TV? No that won't work. Does he send a letter to every UPC pastor? Does he tell the gen sup? Does he contact News Week? He needs to repent, if he has not...Does he need to contact every person in the UPC? And does it really really matter to the UPC? At this stage of being persona non grata, would it matter to LW? Can he repent and not admit to everyone his sins and then say he repented?

Prax, I don't know what to say to tall that, but I can say there is too much smoke for there not to be fire. I wish I could say more, but that would require naming names I have been asked never to name in regard to this subject. If this dissapoints you in my response, all I can do is apologize and let whatever judgement you heap upon my shoulders hang there.

There has been plenty I have been told over the years about a great many subjects. I won't betray the trust those had in me, though it would make me look good in a lot of cases. I am sorry if you see me as judgemental.

[Praxeas]

Prax, I don't know what to say to tall that, but I can say there is too much smoke for there not to be fire. I wish I could say more, but that would require naming names I have been asked never to name in regard to this subject. If this dissapoints you in my response, all I can do is apologize and let whatever judgement you heap upon my shoulders hang there.

There has been plenty I have been told over the years about a great many subjects. I won't betray the trust those had in me, though it would make me look good in a lot of cases. I am sorry if you see me as judgemental.
It does not disappoint me. All I can say is that personally I just don't know what state the man is in spiritually.. I'd like to see him be healed

[retsambeW]

It does not disappoint me. All I can say is that personally I just don't know what state the man is in spiritually.. I'd like to see him be healed

Truth to tell Prax, I would like to see him, and anyone that wanders away from good, Godly actions, be able to be healed.

[Praxeas]

The thing is...I have seen and heard a lot of attitudes towards this particular sin that makes me wonder how willing we are as an org to forgive and attempt to heal those that do repent..

[retsambeW]

The thing is...I have seen and heard a lot of attitudes towards this particular sin that makes me wonder how willing we are as an org to forgive and attempt to heal those that do repent..

I can't speak to every situation, but I can tell you, if someone is honest in repentence, I would be more likely to restore than someone who just tries to do the rug cover boogey.

[mizpeh]

Where did Paul say Peter had to give a public apology to everyone? I mean what constitutes a public apology? Did Paul cut peter off from the body before he could apologize? Would Peter's apology matter? probably but I don't think LWs apology or admission would mean squat to a lot of people in the UPC. When it comes to homosexuality that seems to be the unpardonable sin. Did Peter send a letter to every church announcing what a scum bag he was (admission) and then say he was sorry for his sins?

I was asking rheutorical questions. Sorry, I should have used some smileys. :)

[Cindy]

It is very hard to forgive someone that has hurt you in any way. But it can happen. A lot of prayer and counseling can help you overcome. But God is the only one that can cleanse a sinners soul. No matter how much we would like to have an apology we may never get one. But God can help us to forgive anyway. God is waiting on a lot of people to ask for frogiveness, he will probably never hear it. But that doesn't mean he is not able to forgive. And it is much easier to condemn someone we think was held to a higher standard. LW was not. He is held to the same standard by God that we are. God is the one than can demands an apology not me. But there is another point that people forget also, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Who am I to say that someone owes me an apology when God is the only ones that knows another's heart? But I agree if a church, any church allows someone in their pulpit or on their platform that is living a sinful life it is wrong. And yes we do have to take a stand NOW against sin, any sin. And thank God there are many that do.

[Evang.Benincasa]

The time has come where I feel I must leave the AFF. I have enjoyed the friends I have made, but I've not enjoyed the enemies I've made. I just hope those who are so judgmental here can live a sinless life, because God will not forgive those who refuse to forgive. St. Matthew put the nail in the coffin.

However, I will be praying for those who speak the truth in love.

God bless you all,
acharris

Come on Brother Harris, don't be like that.

You know you're going to miss me, so stop all of this cranky posturing and get back in the game. :)



In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[RandyWayne]

Come on Brother Harris, don't be like that.

You know you're going to miss me, so stop all of this cranky posturing and get back in the game. :)

www.OnTimeJournal.com

I'm still trying to get Carrol Burnett out of my head after seeing the title of this thread.........

[Cindy]

I'm still trying to get Carrol Burnett out of my head after seeing the title of this thread.........

:toofunny

[Evang.Benincasa]

It is very hard to forgive someone that has hurt you in any way.

No, that's not true. You get over it and move on. :)



But it can happen.

It happens due to people not WANTING to forgive. It's all about the want to. :)



A lot of prayer and counseling can help you overcome.

Praying through till you drain your sinus cavities does wonders. Speak in tongues and pray face down in a puddle of snot does a body good. :ouch





But God is the only one that can cleanse a sinners soul. No matter how much we would like to have an apology we may never get one.

If you don't take it personal, then there is no need for apologies. Sometimes "sorry" can be a "sorry" word. :)



But God can help us to forgive anyway.

Only if we WANT to, God is not about force, He is all about leading. :)


God is waiting on a lot of people to ask for frogiveness, he will probably never hear it. But that doesn't mean he is not able to forgive.

Praying through solves many a problem. :)


And it is much easier to condemn someone we think was held to a higher standard.

Now hold on there a minute Baba Loui! When a man takes a position over young people to be teacher and trainer, he has a responsibility to their parents and to God. When a man takes advantage of a young girl, then the women come out in force with pitch forks, axe handles, and torches to chase the lawbreaker up into the windmill to burn down the culprit and his hiding place.

It does seem very strange that when it's homosexual activity women aren't too fussed over the deal. I'm not saying that any of the ladies here are of that crowd, but what if LW would of taken advantage of some very young girl students and they came up pregnant, what then?

I do believe there wouldn't be many falling over themselves to go see the trio reunion. Just my opinion.

Imagine there was a time in this world if something like this would of happened you would of never heard of the man again in public. I am not saying they would of burned him at the stake, but they would never condone having the gentleman on the stage, pulpit, or political arena.

Think of where this society is heading. :scripture





LW was not. He is held to the same standard by God that we are.

Sorry but the scripture states be not many teachers because they will have the greater condemnation. Which simply means don't take the job if you can't handle the heat. Ministers are put in positions the same as doctors, and lawyers. If anyone of these positions violate those who are trusting them they could face jail. In God's book those who take the job as minister must first count the cost and fully understand what he is getting himself into. God is the one who calls a man, and so my question is where is a man's mind at when he is looking at porn on the web, or having sex with a minor in who he was intrusted with?



God is the one than can demands an apology not me. But there is another point that people forget also, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Who am I to say that someone owes me an apology when God is the only ones that knows another's heart? But I agree if a church, any church allows someone in their pulpit or on their platform that is living a sinful life it is wrong. And yes we do have to take a stand NOW against sin, any sin. And thank God there are many that do.

Amen.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Evang.Benincasa]

I'm still trying to get Carrol Burnett out of my head after seeing the title of this thread.........

Makes me think of Cohen Burnett.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Or how about Harvey Cohen?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Or Tim Cohen Way

[RandyWayne]

Or how about Harvey Cohen?

Or Tim Cohen Way

And dentist chairs!

[Cindy]

And dentist chairs!

Did ya hafta bring that up?????:ouch

[Evang.Benincasa]

That is not true either, you don't just get over it and move on.

Oh but it is, and we don't need a head shrinker to get it done. We just need the Holy Ghost and strong Brothers and Sisters who believe in prayer.




This is not true either. You may want to forgive but it doesn't just magically happen.

No, it happens SUPERNATURALLY. :)




Are you serious?

Yes, are you? :)







???????? It is very personal for some Bro. And if it isn't personal to you then you don't know what you are talking about.

It becomes the same across the board, and when we are involved in damage we need to meet with a supernatural God called Jesus who doesn't care if we are melancholy or Sanguine. Families are damaged when a preacher goes bad, and people are left to wander off into heavy traffic.





I wasn't saying that God forces someone to forgive.

When you use the word "make" that leads me to think that is what you are looking at. Thanks for the clearify.





Yes it does.

Yep. :)




He was in a position of authority but was not a pastor or a minister. He was a singer and teacher. There are not degrees of accountability. Sin of any kind is not acceptable as I said.

Teacher, yes, he was a teacher in a PENTECOSTAL COLLEGE, you do the math. :)


Yes because boys and men are taught that way. Don't show emotion.

Could you explain?


We all know where society is headed.

Yes, I can smell the brimstone.






I agree with that. I pointed that out in my post or tried to. And since you are just reading words you don't know what you are doing when you pick and choose in my post.
Have you lived through this kind of pain brother?

Sister, my testimony is long, and ministers would ask me to tell it to their congregations. I have never told the full length version of it. back in the world my mind was shattered, and my soul was black, my body still holds the scarring of a life of insanity. I preach that children cannot choose their parents, and mine did the best they knew, but children get offended and end up extremely bent.
I have watched as people, and friends went off into oblivion, and I am thankful that Jesus held out His hand and took me out of a devil's hell.

A person doesn't have to have a sexual predator take advantage of them to feel the pain of damage.

Ministers (no matter what title you place on them) are to be held to a higher standard. LW, knew better, I really hope that he has gone forward and now wants to see homosexuals and pedophiles set free and stay free.

If he has not been completely delivered then may the Lord have mercy.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Scott Hutchinson]

Nothing personal but when one is on a message board,they are a guest in somebody else's home so to speak,so wheter one agrees or not they should comply with admin's wishes.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Nothing personal but when one is on a message board,they are a guest in somebody else's home so to speak,so wheter one agrees or not they should comply with admin's wishes.

What are you talking about Brother Hutchinson?

[Cindy]

Is this how YOU counsel hurting people Evangelist? By picking apart their hurting souls?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Is this how YOU counsel hurting people Evangelist? By picking apart their hurting souls?

My dear Sister, one's perception is their reality. I'm very sorry that you are misrepresenting what I have posted.

I just would like to restate that a minister is held accountable for his actions when he is placed over young people. If he violates that trust he should never be allowed to let it happen again. It was stated in this thread that there are people who were damged by this whole situation and those who are victims could take offence at the other thread lauding the man's reunion.

I'm sorry that this ever happened in Pentecost and that their are those who have never had peace over this issue.

I have picked nothing apart, and maybe there should be some picking, and there may be some picking in the future.

Still I'm sorry that you feel that I was trying to be hurtful towards this situation.

[Cindy]

My dear Sister, one's perception is their reality. I'm very sorry that you are misrepresenting what I have posted.

I just would like to restate that a minister is held accountable for his actions when he is placed over young people. If he violates that trust he should never be allowed to let it happen again. It was stated in this thread that there are people who were damged by this whole situation and those who are victims could take offence at the other thread lauding the man's reunion.

I'm sorry that this ever happened in Pentecost and that their are those who have never had peace over this issue.

I have picked nothing apart, and maybe there should be some picking, and there may be some picking in the future.

Still I'm sorry that you feel that I was trying to be hurtful towards this situation.

I was not suggesting that he should be allowed to not be held accountable for his actions. My point of view is for the victims and their pain. I did not mean counseling in the sense of the world's counseling. I did in fact mean counseling by Godly pastors and brothers and sisters, perhaps I should have made that clear. I will put you on ignore and hope that you will do the same for me.

[Evang.Benincasa]

I was not suggesting that he should be allowed to not be held accountable for his actions. My point of view is for the victims and their pain. I did not mean counseling in the sense of the world's counseling. I did in fact mean counseling by Godly pastors and brothers and sisters, perhaps I should have made that clear. I will put you on ignore and hope that you will do the same for me.

That's what I love about forum life. People make statements that "they" should of made themselves a little more clear, but instead of shaking hands and getting back to modified discussion, they just would rather get offended. Please understand no hard feelings here.

Was pleasure posting with you, and sorry I don't put anyone on ignore, I don't allow myself to take this forum to those heights. I mean if we start placing each other on ignore we might as well just 86 the whole shooting match.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

[Cindy]

Nothing personal but when one is on a message board,they are a guest in somebody else's home so to speak,so wheter one agrees or not they should comply with admin's wishes.

Thank you Bro. Scott.

[TRFrance]

If he was basically chased OUT of that Apostolic circles I don't know how he can make a public declaration any UPCer would accept...not only that given the attitudes that we often see in Oneness circles an admission would NOT help LW. Some folks would just feel justified in how they branded him and ostracized him..in fact he'd probably be ostracized even more....we can forgive and heal adulterers, fornicators, porn addicts and drug users but not gays....

Ok. Suit yourself then.

Your staunch defense of this man is puzzling, in light of all that is known about his situation, both on and off the record, and his deafening silence in the midst of it all.

My old pastor used to say: "God lives next door to common sense". If it looks like a rat, walks like a rat, smells like a rat, sounds like a rat etc... then I'm going to come to the reasonable conclusion that its a rat. I'm not going to think it might be a chihuahua instead.

Methinks you're looking at this with rose-colored glasses.

Have a good day, senor.

...

[Praxeas]

Ok. Suit yourself then.

Your staunch defense of this man is puzzling, in light of all that is known about his situation, both on and off the record, and his deafening silence in the midst of it all.

My old pastor used to say: "God lives next door to common sense". If it looks like a rat, walks like a rat, smells like a rat, sounds like a rat etc... then I'm going to come to the reasonable conclusion that its a rat. I'm not going to think it might be a chihuahua instead.

Methinks you're looking at this with rose-colored glasses.

Have a good day, senor.

...
Are you nuts? I have not been defending anyone. Good grief. I've been asking about what we "know" about this man. All I see are accusations from others..people that say they know someone that knows first hand blah blah blah and what did I say? I'd like to see him healed...and then you say Im defending him....did you just get finished painting indoors with the windows shut or something? :huh

[Cindy]

That's what I love about forum life. People make statements that "they" should of made themselves a little more clear, but instead of shaking hands and getting back to modified discussion, they just would rather get offended. Please understand no hard feelings here.

Was pleasure posting with you, and sorry I don't put anyone on ignore, I don't allow myself to take this forum to those heights. I mean if we start placing each other on ignore we might as well just 86 the whole shooting match.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com



http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

All righty then.....:drama:toofunny:happydance

[Evang.Benincasa]

All righty then.....:drama:toofunny:happydance

Too much spare time.

[Praxeas]

Are you nuts? I have not been defending anyone. Good grief. I've been asking about what we "know" about this man. All I see are accusations from others..people that say they know someone that knows first hand blah blah blah and what did I say? I'd like to see him healed...and then you say Im defending him....did you just get finished painting indoors with the windows shut or something? :huh
And I will add that I never once suggested that if he is gay he does not need to repent either. I am not defending anyone.

[John Atkinson]

And I will add that I never once suggested that if he is gay he does not need to repent either. I am not defending anyone.
Been lurking through the thread and wanted to note I am with you Prax. Sin is sin, flavour is irrelevant, when a saint goofs up, we need to be there preaching restoration loud no matter what they did.


Oh. Gossip is as big a sin as indulging in gay sex.



think I'll go hide now

[Cindy]

Been lurking through the thread and wanted to note I am with you Prax. Sin is sin, flavour is irrelevant, when a saint goofs up, we need to be there preaching restoration loud no matter what they did.


Oh. Gossip is as big a sin as indulging in gay sex.



think I'll go hide now


:couch pssst. Over here.

[mizpeh]

Been lurking through the thread and wanted to note I am with you Prax. Sin is sin, flavour is irrelevant, when a saint goofs up, we need to be there preaching restoration loud no matter what they did.


Oh. Gossip is as big a sin as indulging in gay sex.



think I'll go hide now

I think some sins are worst than others but they will all put you in hell! :stirpot