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chosenbyone
03-11-2007, 07:04 PM
I figured that would get your attention.

The thread I started this morning was one I felt compelled to share because on the attached video it spoke of the shame of AIDS. It spoke of those that needed an example of grace because for so many dying with AIDS there haven't been many examples to cause them to believe that God's grace was sufficient for even their needs.

Many of you I've known or I've met through my years of association with the UPCI. I didn't leave the UPCI, but I realized that it had left me. I am dying of AIDS. I know longer will hide in shame for I was made in my God's image: Though flawed and scarred, I won't ever forget his work in my life. I've lost my wife, my family, my church, but I thank God everyday that I have not lost my faith. I didn't let the tragedies of life harden my heart. I'm no saint by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just a product of my maker's hands.

This day was significant for me in many ways. First of all, for me to telling you of my condition was liberating and a huge step for me personally. The other significance of this day was when I began typing this post, I heard the many thousands who were marching in today's AIDS walk along Allen Parkway. I live just off of Allen Parkway in downtown Houston and I forgot that today was the march.

I was there marching with them this time last year, though I was ill, I finished the walk. I didn't want to believe it would be my last one, but somehow I knew it would be. I'm thankful that there are those that take the time to care about raising awareness and funds in the battle against AIDS.

I've been very emotional today realizing the tremendous need of workers to minister to the outcast of our society: Workers who know Jesus and could be an effective tool of the Lord to reach those nearest to death.

Through my ministry, I've worked side by side with many people including gay ministers. Many who meant well by devoting their time to AIDS suffers, but became an obstacle to their salvation. Without the power of the Holy Ghost and the authority of Jesus' name the devils won't leave those on their death beds. He almost has them for eternity.

I've witnessed souls that at the very last moment screamed Jesus, Jesus! The screams of one bound for hell. There are people on this forum who have been deceived if they think there is no hell. Sit beside a bed of a man who saw the demons coming for him, who earlier denied there ever was a Christ and yet spent his last bit of energy screaming in terror for mercy.

We are living in the last days and there is such a spirit of deception that's been at work for many years and it is now that we see the fruits of that spirit. That spirit is the spirit of the Antichrist. God wants us to live in liberty and grace, but don't comprise the truth to the point that deception.

This week God showed me that his word was true once again. I had been contemplating for several months whether to sell my house and move to something more manageable. I have all this space, but I only live in three rooms. It just didn't make a whole lot of sense to stay here.

I was approached by a lady I knew while working and she told me that God had spoken to her about me and she had a home that she wanted me to come look at. It just so happens that she lives in a home directly behind the one she wanted me to look at.

She lost both of her parents in the last two years and never had any children. She had been lonely and while praying in a Catholic mass the Lord whispered my name to her. I was able to go see the home this week and I knew it was God's plan and his timing.

He promised to give us the desires of our hearts if we would follow him and not only does he give us what we desire, he ensures that every detail is giving to us.

I wanted two master bedrooms for privacy if the time came that I would need assistance and personal care. Also, I wanted a space for my home office and lots of windows to let in the sunshine. Not only did he give me all of that, but each bathroom has those big cast iron tubs, with the claw feet just like the one from my childhood. Only Jesus knew that I wanted a big cast iron tub with claw feet that I can take long baths.

I thank my loving Jesus who gave me life and hope through the darkest of times. I lift him up and give him all that I have for he is all that I ever wanted. He is my everything. I spend every day with him: He loved me and accepted me when no one would: He never left me when others fled: He was my family when I had no family: He gave strength and encouragement when hope seemed all but lost.

I apologize for this being so lengthy, but I'm not sure if after what I've disclosed if I would be welcomed back. I would want you to know that people need love and fellowship regardless of what society would think of them. Give a part of yourself to minister to others outside of your comfort zone. I'm not asking for myself...I'm asking for those who would never ask for fear of being rejected.

May God richly bless you and keep you in perfect peace. Never put limits on the grace and mercy of our Father.

chosenbyone
livingbygrace

PS: Cooper you keep fighting the good fight and pray daily that God would heal the wounds that you may not even see: Sister, Rhoni, send me an email. I'm looking forward to your visit next month: RRford, Coonskinner and Malvaro give Rhoni a break and pick on each other for awhile: Dan thanks for sharing your tunes and being a cool brother in the Lord. You made me laugh on days that laughter was much needed: Falla39 thank you for being a lovely example of a Christian: Barb your sweet nature really shines on this forum. Your toughness and your smile reminds me of my dear mother: Felicity don't change a thing....your simplistic style of writing and your wit brought many smiles....you're so sweet.




http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=21408&postcount=214
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=21541&postcount=222

Neck
03-11-2007, 07:21 PM
Dear Brother in Christ and friend,
I have never met you. I did feel the spirit of the Lord come over me when I read your post. I know the Lord has used it to include me in your walk. Your willingness to share wilth us took much strength and faith. It was not the wrong thing to do.

Please reach me via PM and you will always have someone you can talk with....

Your Brother in Christ,

Nathan Eckstadt

mizpeh
03-11-2007, 07:25 PM
Chosenbyone,

Rhoni gave you good advice. Did you take her advice?

You seem resigned to going to be with the Lord. Maybe He has more for you to do?

I'll be praying for you.

rgcraig
03-11-2007, 07:38 PM
Chosenbyone,

I hope that you find more laughter and support from this forum in the days to come!

ManOfWord
03-11-2007, 07:38 PM
CBY, your honesty should be disarming to any who would dare to criticize you. Obviously, you know that the only freedom comes from a person, not a doctrine; a relationship and not a religion. It is the ONLY thing that sets the captive free.

May the Lord use you to help those who are in bondage find HIM and the true freedom that will take them to glory!!! D:

SDG
03-11-2007, 08:06 PM
My dear brother,

I am humbled by your candor. I am here ....as a friend and brother in Christ.

Please tell me what I can do ... I'm here for you ... PMed you, Chosen.

I will be praying for you.

In His and your service,
Dan

Falla39
03-11-2007, 08:41 PM
I figured that would get your attention.

The thread I started this morning was one I felt compelled to share because on the attached video it spoke of the shame of AIDS. It spoke of those that needed an example of grace because for so many dying with AIDS there haven't been many examples to cause them to believe that God's grace was sufficient for even their needs.

Many of you I've known or I've met through my years of association with the UPCI. I didn't leave the UPCI, but I realized that it had left me. I am dying of AIDS. I know longer will hide in shame for I was made in my God's image: Though flawed and scarred, I won't ever forget his work in my life. I've lost my wife, my family, my church, but I thank God everyday that I have not lost my faith. I didn't let the tragedies of life harden my heart. I'm no saint by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just a product of my maker's hands.

This day was significant for me in many ways. First of all, for me to telling you of my condition was liberating and a huge step for me personally. The other significance of this day was when I began typing this post, I heard the many thousands who were marching in today's AIDS walk along Allen Parkway. I live just off of Allen Parkway in downtown Houston and I forgot that today was the march.

I was there marching with them this time last year, though I was ill, I finished the walk. I didn't want to believe it would be my last one, but somehow I knew it would be. I'm thankful that there are those that take the time to care about raising awareness and funds in the battle against AIDS.

I've been very emotional today realizing the tremendous need of workers to minister to the outcast of our society: Workers who know Jesus and could be an effective tool of the Lord to reach those nearest to death.

Through my ministry, I've worked side by side with many people including gay ministers. Many who meant well by devoting their time to AIDS suffers, but became an obstacle to their salvation. Without the power of the Holy Ghost and the authority of Jesus' name the devils won't leave those on their death beds. He almost has them for eternity.

I've witnessed souls that at the very last moment screamed Jesus, Jesus! The screams of one bound for hell. There are people on this forum who have been deceived if they think there is no hell. Sit beside a bed of a man who saw the demons coming for him, who earlier denied there ever was a Christ and yet spent his last bit of energy screaming in terror for mercy.

We are living in the last days and there is such a spirit of deception that's been at work for many years and it is now that we see the fruits of that spirit. That spirit is the spirit of the Antichrist. God wants us to live in liberty and grace, but don't comprise the truth to the point that deception.

This week God showed me that his word was true once again. I had been contemplating for several months whether to sell my house and move to something more manageable. I have all this space, but I only live in three rooms. It just didn't make a whole lot of sense to stay here.

I was approached by a lady I knew while working and she told me that God had spoken to her about me and she had a home that she wanted me to come look at. It just so happens that she lives in a home directly behind the one she wanted me to look at.

She lost both of her parents in the last two years and never had any children. She had been lonely and while praying in a Catholic mass the Lord whispered my name to her. I was able to go see the home this week and I knew it was God's plan and his timing.

He promised to give us the desires of our hearts if we would follow him and not only does he give us what we desire, he ensures that every detail is giving to us.

I wanted two master bedrooms for privacy if the time came that I would need assistance and personal care. Also, I wanted a space for my home office and lots of windows to let in the sunshine. Not only did he give me all of that, but each bathroom has those big cast iron tubs, with the claw feet just like the one from my childhood. Only Jesus knew that I wanted a big cast iron tub with claw feet that I can take long baths.

I thank my loving Jesus who gave me life and hope through the darkest of times. I lift him up and give him all that I have for he is all that I ever wanted. He is my everything. I spend every day with him: He loved me and accepted me when no one would: He never left me when others fled: He was my family when I had no family: He gave strength and encouragement when hope seemed all but lost.

I apologize for this being so lengthy, but I'm not sure if after what I've disclosed if I would be welcomed back. I would want you to know that people need love and fellowship regardless of what society would think of them. Give a part of yourself to minister to others outside of your comfort zone. I'm not asking for myself...I'm asking for those who would never ask for fear of being rejected.

May God richly bless you and keep you in perfect peace. Never put limits on the grace and mercy of our Father.

chosenbyone
livingbygrace

PS: Cooper you keep fighting the good fight and pray daily that God would heal the wounds that you may not even see: Sister, Rhoni, send me an email. I'm looking forward to your visit next month: RRford, Coonskinner and Malvaro give Rhoni a break and pick on each other for awhile: Dan thanks for sharing your tunes and being a cool brother in the Lord. You made me laugh on days that laughter was much needed: Falla39 thank you for being a lovely example of a Christian: Barb your sweet nature really shines on this forum. Your toughness and your smile reminds me of my dear mother: Felicity don't change a thing....your simplistic style of writing and your wit brought many smiles....you're so sweet.




http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=21408&postcount=214
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=21541&postcount=222


Dear Brother,

God bless you for your openness, and honesty! We are told in God's

Word that he that confesseth his sin and forsaketh it shall find mercy!!

Those who hide their sin, it will not be well with them. We have all, in

different ways sinned and come short of God's mercy. But we have found

mercy because we did not continue but forsook sin and confessed it, first

of all to Jesus Christ, who is the ONE who died for our sins. Oh what that

should mean to every sinner saved by the power and grace of Almighty God!!

Brother, I just heard someone say recently that they are very close to

finding a cure for Aids. Even so, our God can totally heal ANY disease. So

don't give up HOPE just yet! God may not be through with you yet! Take

courage, God is BIGGER and GREATER than we have ever been able to

comprehend with our minds! I truly believe that!!

May God direct your path as you look to Him for your future. We all are

doing the same thing! We all have to trust our lives and futures in His

Precious Nail-scarred Hands!! I wish I could kiss HIS PRECIOUS HANDS and

tell HIM how very much I love HIM and want to do except HIS PERFECT

WILL!!

Blessings, Brother, in Jesus Name!

Falla39

Newman
03-11-2007, 09:24 PM
Through my ministry, I've worked side by side with many people including gay ministers. Many who meant well by devoting their time to AIDS suffers, but became an obstacle to their salvation. Without the power of the Holy Ghost and the authority of Jesus' name the devils won't leave those on their death beds. He almost has them for eternity.



OK I will bite. There are no gay ministers. Homosexuality is still sin.

For the record; I had a "gay" friend who was dying of AIDS and mislead a couple of forums for possibly a year. He led us to believe he had come back to Christ and repented of his sins. After we all got to know him and care deeply about him, he led us to believe he died.

Only later we found out he was still alive and very much still a player and in fact had attempted to recruit another poster who was having issues.

So forgive me if this post comes across on the harsh side; but I already been there (sympathetic), done that and have the tshirt. Now I am gun-shy.:drawguns

Do you believe homosexuality is a sin; rather in a monagamous relationship or not?

SDG
03-11-2007, 09:34 PM
OK I will bite. There are no gay ministers. Homosexuality is still sin.

For the record; I had a "gay" friend who was dying of AIDS and mislead a couple of forums for possibly a year. He led us to believe he had come back to Christ and repented of his sins. After we all got to know him and care deeply about him, he led us to believe he died.

Only later we found out he was still alive and very much still a player and in fact had attempted to recruit another poster who was having issues.

So forgive me if this post comes across on the harsh side; but I already been there (sympathetic), done that and have the tshirt. Now I am gun-shy.:drawguns

Do you believe homosexuality is a sin; rather in a monagamous relationship or not?

Speechless.

Coonskinner
03-11-2007, 09:38 PM
OK I will bite. There are no gay ministers. Homosexuality is still sin.

For the record; I had a "gay" friend who was dying of AIDS and mislead a couple of forums for possibly a year. He led us to believe he had come back to Christ and repented of his sins. After we all got to know him and care deeply about him, he led us to believe he died.

Only later we found out he was still alive and very much still a player and in fact had attempted to recruit another poster who was having issues.

So forgive me if this post comes across on the harsh side; but I already been there (sympathetic), done that and have the tshirt. Now I am gun-shy.:drawguns

Do you believe homosexuality is a sin; rather in a monagamous relationship or not?

I'd like to hear the answer to this too.

There are no gay ministers. Homosexuality is still sin.

Amen.

Malvaro
03-11-2007, 09:52 PM
....RRford, Coonskinner and Malvaro give Rhoni a break and pick on each other for awhile.....


i count it an honor to even be mentioned in the same sentence as RRFord and CS..... i don't have any need to pick on them as they clearly believe the same as me and are willing to stand for the same type of things....

i wasn't afraid to stand against anything Rhoni said that I didnt agree with on NFCF and I don't plan to back down here on AFF.... its funny how folks come outta the woodwork to champion Rhoni whenever anyone says anything against her statments but won't blink an eye when she wigs out and later admits to speaking rashly due to stress/spiritual attack/etc....

i'm not going to lose sleep over it, but i find the double-standard humerous.... :D

Trouvere
03-11-2007, 10:01 PM
Brother I am sorry if you found no solice within the church walls but there are those who are out touching lives of many who are in your situation.I have a dear friend who moved back to his family home and church.He repented of his sins and was the minister of music for the church there.He then found out he was positive from the past lifestyle.Not only did the church support him and his family in every area but they would leave the building after service and go and hold service in his home while he laid on the sofa in the last stages.
Love is the greatest gift.Maybe alot of people reject someone in your circumstance but I only know of those loving someone to the end.
Hang in there.God is still on the throne.

Nahum
03-11-2007, 10:03 PM
Word of advice to all posters:

Proceed with much caution. Something's not quite right here.

Monkeyman
03-11-2007, 10:05 PM
Word of advice to all posters:

Proceed with much caution. Something's not quite right here.
*Duhn duhn duuuhn* Some dramatic music for ya

rrford
03-11-2007, 10:06 PM
Word of advice to all posters:

Proceed with much caution. Something's not quite right here.

Agreed.

Sister Alvear
03-11-2007, 10:10 PM
...just thinking about all that has been said here...

Old Paths
03-11-2007, 10:10 PM
Word of advice to all posters:

Proceed with much caution. Something's not quite right here.



Sounds right.

Felicity
03-11-2007, 10:19 PM
Well .............

God is good and His mercy endures forever! :)

SDG
03-11-2007, 10:20 PM
Whether he admits it's a sin or not ... do we condemn him right now or show compassion ????

Did the adulterous woman, who was caught in the act ... admit her sin??? ... yet Jesus did not condemn her .. but urged her to go and sin no more.

rrford
03-11-2007, 10:21 PM
Whether he admits it's a sin or not ... do we condemn him or show compassion ????

Did the adulterous woman, who was caught in the act ... admit her sin??? ... yet Jesus did not condemn her .. but urged her to go and sin no more.

One can exercise caution and compassion at the same time.

SDG
03-11-2007, 10:22 PM
One can exercise caution and compassion at the same time.

Agreed ... let's allow Chosen to answer.

rrford
03-11-2007, 10:24 PM
Agreed ... let's allow Chosen to answer.

Exactly what I am doing.

Old Paths
03-11-2007, 10:24 PM
One can exercise caution and compassion at the same time.



Absolutel NOT!

You must throw caution to the wind.

Embrace compassion without any guidelines or rules.















TIC

Nahum
03-11-2007, 10:24 PM
One can exercise caution and compassion at the same time.

Agreed. I urge everyone to read through the original post several times.

I am very compassionate, but lets be careful and analyze the best way to employ said compassion.

Nahum
03-11-2007, 10:25 PM
Absolutel NOT!

You must throw caution to the wind.

Embrace compassion without any guidelines or rules.

TIC

Careful, you only have a fifteen minute window in which to delete posts OP.

BoredOutOfMyMind
03-11-2007, 10:29 PM
Careful, you only have a fifteen minute window in which to delete posts OP.

Should be 120

Nahum
03-11-2007, 10:32 PM
Chosen, I have a couple of questions. Please know that I care deeply about your situation, and pray God's mercy and grace continues to shine on your life.

1. Are you actively involved in an Apostolic church now?
2. Do you currently minister to other homosexuals outside of church?

SDG
03-11-2007, 10:34 PM
Chosen, I have a couple of questions. Please know that I care deeply about your situation, and pray God's mercy and grace continues to shine on your life.

1. Are you actively involved in an Apostolic church now?
2. Do you currently minister to other homosexuals outside of church?

Perhaps this link that he also provided will shed some light on whether or not he's actively involved ....

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=21408&postcount=214

HeavenlyOne
03-11-2007, 10:42 PM
Word of advice to all posters:

Proceed with much caution. Something's not quite right here.

Although I wasn't involved with the person Newman speaks of, her and I as well as Lisa were involved in a poster who also 'died', only to discover about a year later that it was just a little joke.

I'm still not finding it funny.

Forgive me if I'm not taking this seriously.

There was a man who was a member of FCF. He had a brain tumor. I had personal contact with him for a few months but then it stopped. I believe he passed, as he didn't have long to live. I've thought of calling his wife to find out but I've left it alone. I believe he's gone.

Due to the other experience I had by an Apostolic man who also happens to be a minister, I won't ever put that much trust in anyone again.

Not on the internet.

rrford
03-11-2007, 10:44 PM
Perhaps this link that he also provided will shed some light on whether or not he's actively involved ....

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=21408&postcount=214

How do you know this is the same poster?

SDG
03-11-2007, 10:45 PM
How do you know this is the same poster?

One would have to assume so since in post 1 ... Chosen provided this link with his admission ... see bottom of post 1.

Old Paths
03-11-2007, 10:46 PM
Careful, you only have a fifteen minute window in which to delete posts OP.



What's the problem???

rrford
03-11-2007, 10:47 PM
One would have to assume so since in post 1 ... Chosen provided this link with his admission ... see bottom of post 1.

Oh. Even with that I think I will still proceed carefully. Neither post really states how he contracted AIDS.

SDG
03-11-2007, 10:49 PM
Oh. Even with that I think I will still proceed carefully. Neither post really states how he contracted AIDS.

Agreed, brother. Apparently, Rhoni knows about this situation since Chosen stated she would be visiting him next month ... [post 1]

Nahum
03-11-2007, 10:49 PM
Paragraph four intimates the cause of the disease rrford.

rrford
03-11-2007, 10:50 PM
Paragraph four intimates the cause of the disease rrford.

Intimates it. But not to be accusing, which is not my intent, but I have heard such statements used as a "sanitized" covering for the actual problem.

mizpeh
03-11-2007, 10:53 PM
Oh. Even with that I think I will still proceed carefully. Neither post really states how he contracted AIDS.

I'm not sure I'm following what you and the others are saying.

What does it matter how he became infected with the AIDS virus? If he sinned and has since repented, then God has forgiven him. If it was by a needle stick or blood transfusion, would that make it more palatable to feel compassion on him?

SDG
03-11-2007, 10:56 PM
I'm not sure I'm following what you and the others are saying.

What does it matter how he became infected with the AIDS virus? If he sinned and has since repented, then God has forgiven him. If it was by a needle stick or blood transfusion, would that make it more palatable to feel compassion on him?

Makes no difference to me ...

Felicity
03-11-2007, 10:57 PM
I'm not sure I'm following what you and the others are saying.

What does it matter how he became infected with the AIDS virus? If he sinned and has since repented, then God has forgiven him. If it was by a needle stick or blood transfusion, would that make it more palatable to feel compassion on him?I don't think anyone here is lacking in compassion actually.

rrford
03-11-2007, 10:57 PM
I'm not sure I'm following what you and the others are saying.

What does it matter how he became infected with the AIDS virus? If he sinned and has since repented, then God has forgiven him. If it was by a needle stick or blood transfusion, would that make it more palatable to feel compassion on him?

Apparently you are ot seeing this the way I am thinking. Compassion is not dependant upon the circumstance. That is not the issue. But I don't feel we have the necessary details to offer blanket compassion and support. And I defintiely do not think that all of the details need to be posted here.

If there has been true repentance, which we are not even sure is necessary as we are not sure this person was/is involved in homosexual practices, then that is awesome. If there has been no true repentance then my compassion will be tempered with the admonishement to find repentance. Thus, careful compassion is the order of the day, IMO.

mizpeh
03-11-2007, 11:00 PM
Thanks for clarifying, I didn't understand what you all were going on about, but I do tend to be gullible so I can appreciate your caution.

Newman
03-11-2007, 11:06 PM
I'm not sure I'm following what you and the others are saying.

What does it matter how he became infected with the AIDS virus? If he sinned and has since repented, then God has forgiven him. If it was by a needle stick or blood transfusion, would that make it more palatable to feel compassion on him?

If he got AIDS from a needle or a blood transfusion, he probably would have said so.

If he sinned and repented; I do not believe he could have, would have written the post that he did.

(Apostolic Churches embrace those that repent to the best of my knowledge and belief).

If he isn't repentant and is claiming to be a brother it matters. :cool:

rrford
03-11-2007, 11:06 PM
If he got AIDS from a needle or a blood transfusion, he probably would have said so.

If he sinned and repented; I do not believe he could have, would have written the post that he did.

(Apostolic Churches embrace those that repent to the best of my knowledge and belief).

If he isn't repentant and is claiming to be a brother it matters. :cool:

Good post. Thanks for saying what I couldn't get into the right words.

SDG
03-11-2007, 11:11 PM
If he got AIDS from a needle or a blood transfusion, he probably would have said so.

If he sinned and repented; I do not believe he could have, would have written the post that he did.

(Apostolic Churches embrace those that repent to the best of my knowledge and belief).

If he isn't repentant and is claiming to be a brother it matters. :cool:


I don't think a claim of brotherhood was made by Chosen ..... This is what Chosen asked of us ....

I apologize for this being so lengthy, but I'm not sure if after what I've disclosed if I would be welcomed back. I would want you to know that people need love and fellowship regardless of what society would think of them. Give a part of yourself to minister to others outside of your comfort zone. I'm not asking for myself...I'm asking for those who would never ask for fear of being rejected.

May God richly bless you and keep you in perfect peace. Never put limits on the grace and mercy of our Father.

mizpeh
03-11-2007, 11:12 PM
If he got AIDS from a needle or a blood transfusion, he probably would have said so.

If he sinned and repented; I do not believe he could have, would have written the post that he did.

(Apostolic Churches embrace those that repent to the best of my knowledge and belief).

If he isn't repentant and is claiming to be a brother it matters. :cool:

Good observations, but he also said Through my ministry, I've worked side by side with many people including gay ministers. without including himself in that group by saying something like "with other gay ministers".

I agree with you that Apostolic churches embrace those that repent and that is perhaps what I'm having the most trouble understanding in his post, is why he is completely forsaken which would lead to your last observation.

Newman
03-11-2007, 11:26 PM
I don't think a claim of brotherhood was made by Chosen ..... This is what Chosen asked of us ....

Chosen claims a relationship with God and closes his post by saying "Never put limits on the grace and mercy of our Father." I think caution is in order...

HeavenlyOne
03-11-2007, 11:37 PM
Once one has been bitten...........

Thad
03-12-2007, 12:48 AM
Wow this thread is tripping me out !!

Heavenlyone and Newman, what if Rhoni could verify that this is real?
would you change your mind about this being fake? think about it,what would a person have to lose of they are dying.

Rhoni where are you

Barb
03-12-2007, 05:47 AM
Wow this thread is tripping me out !!

Heavenlyone and Newman, what if Rhoni could verify that this is real?
would you change your mind about this being fake? think about it,what would a person have to lose of they are dying.

Rhoni where are you

Rhoni is out of town for a week...even if she were here, can she verify anything she doesn't know first hand?

And for the record, HO and Newman are not saying this is fake...they are questioning because they have been burned before.

Sister Alvear
03-12-2007, 07:48 AM
Until we find out let's give the person a listening ear...and a prayer...

Barb
03-12-2007, 08:06 AM
Until we find out let's give the person a listening ear...and a prayer...

Agreed...:praying

Coonskinner
03-12-2007, 08:39 AM
I think Newman's concern might not just be whether this poster actually does have AIDS, but whether he is a homosexual, and what his views are on the subject.

If he is a repented homosexual, that is one thing.

If he still acknowledges the veracity of "gay ministers," it is another matter.

Coonskinner
03-12-2007, 08:39 AM
In either case, it is sad to see someone dying of such an awful disease.

rgcraig
03-12-2007, 08:40 AM
In either case, it is sad to see someone dying of such an awful disease.

Very true.

Coonskinner
03-12-2007, 08:46 AM
Here is the deal--

I have compassion for any person who is suffering.

But this is, after all the internet.

And there are unrepentant homosexuals who like to talk grace and mercy when they find themselves "receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

This is an Apostolic forum, and homosexuality is an abomination.

Compassion for the sufferer is always appropriate, but clarity of our stance regarding this sin is also important.

SDG
03-12-2007, 08:54 AM
Until we find out let's give the person a listening ear...and a prayer...

Amen, Sister Alvear.

Annie
03-12-2007, 08:59 AM
I guess I am just naive. What if the guy IS a homosexual? Do we NOT pray for him? He definately needs salvation in such a case. I don't get the 'caution compassion' thinghy at all. Can you show me examples of this in the Bible?? It's not like we are LOSING anything by praying for this man, or allowing him to post on a public forum. He wasn't asking for money, or anything, right??

Pretty simple situation, if you ask me. If you don't like the circumstances, don't interact with the poster.

We never lose when we open our hearts to the hurting, no matter WHO they be. The reward is in the GIVING, after all. *smile*

JMHO

Barb
03-12-2007, 09:00 AM
I think Newman's concern might not just be whether this poster actually does have AIDS, but whether he is a homosexual, and what his views are on the subject.

If he is a repented homosexual, that is one thing.

If he still acknowledges the veracity of "gay ministers," it is another matter.

In either case, it is sad to see someone dying of such an awful disease.

Yes indeed, to both posts...

SDG
03-12-2007, 09:02 AM
I guess I am just naive. What if the guy IS a homosexual? Do we NOT pray for him? He definately needs salvation in such a case. I don't get the 'caution compassion' thinghy at all. Can you show me examples of this in the Bible?? It's not like we are LOSING anything by praying for this man, or allowing him to post on a public forum. He wasn't asking for money, or anything, right??

Pretty simple situation, if you ask me. If you don't like the circumstances, don't interact with the poster.

We never lose when we open our hearts to the hurting, no matter WHO they be. The reward is in the GIVING, after all. *smile*

JMHO


Ayundanos a mirar con Tus ojos .... Help us see with Your eyes.
Annie, he simply asked for us to minister to those in a similar plight.

Annie
03-12-2007, 09:07 AM
Here is the deal--

I have compassion for any person who is suffering.

But this is, after all the internet.

And there are unrepentant homosexuals who like to talk grace and mercy when they find themselves "receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

This is an Apostolic forum, and homosexuality is an abomination.

Compassion for the sufferer is always appropriate, but clarity of our stance regarding this sin is also important.


I completely understand what you are saying, however, homosexuality would only be ONE of the sinful lives represented in an Apostolic forum. This IS a public internet avenue, and folks can say what they think we want to hear- we would never know the difference. I realize this is not true of every poster on here- as some have personal friendships and relationships through church and such. But, we do not know every poster's life and history- neither do we WANT to, I am sure. *smile*

It pays to be aware that satan is as a roaring lion, seeking who he may desire- even on Apostolic Forums. I am not suggesting that you are not smart enough to know this already- I realize you are an intelligent man of God, I am just saying we cannot pick out ONE sin, and hold it up as an example of ostracization. We could be interacting with folk who are rapists, child molesters, robbers, whore-mongers, and adulterers. Drug addicts (prescribed and/or street drugs), folks who protitute, and all manner of ungodly behaviors.

Do we REALLY know those with whom we interact with??

Just some thoughts.

Coonskinner
03-12-2007, 09:23 AM
The thing is, there were subtle clues in the opriginal post that could need some clarification.

If any other kind of sin was being subtly legitimized, there would be a similar outcry.

HeavenlyOne
03-12-2007, 10:11 AM
Wow this thread is tripping me out !!

Heavenlyone and Newman, what if Rhoni could verify that this is real?
would you change your mind about this being fake? think about it,what would a person have to lose of they are dying.

Rhoni where are you

Thad, forgive me. It's not that I don't believe that it's real, but this is the internet, and if I don't know that person in real life, I have my caution shoes on, even though I pray for the person anyway.

As I stated before, I once fell for a well-known, well-liked poster who supposedly died, even sent me an email about his death to make it more real, played on my emotions, knowing that me and a couple others from the forum were looking for a way to attend his funeral while he read our posts and said nothing. I still haven't gotten an apology to this day.

So, thanks to that person, I now have a lack of trust when it comes to these kinds of issues. I hope you and CBO can understand that.

HeavenlyOne
03-12-2007, 10:13 AM
Rhoni is out of town for a week...even if she were here, can she verify anything she doesn't know first hand?

And for the record, HO and Newman are not saying this is fake...they are questioning because they have been burned before.

Thanks, Barb. :)

HeavenlyOne
03-12-2007, 10:16 AM
I guess I am just naive. What if the guy IS a homosexual? Do we NOT pray for him? He definately needs salvation in such a case. I don't get the 'caution compassion' thinghy at all. Can you show me examples of this in the Bible?? It's not like we are LOSING anything by praying for this man, or allowing him to post on a public forum. He wasn't asking for money, or anything, right??

Pretty simple situation, if you ask me. If you don't like the circumstances, don't interact with the poster.

We never lose when we open our hearts to the hurting, no matter WHO they be. The reward is in the GIVING, after all. *smile*

JMHO

While I understand what you are saying, I don't completely agree, as a person who's been there, done that, and hates the T-shirt.

I was a victim of a hoax for about a year, only to find out that the person didn't die, but played a mean trick, thinking it was quite funny, I'm sure.

I don't find playing on my emotions to be very funny at all, therefore I keep myself reserved in these situations.

Thad
03-12-2007, 10:19 AM
Thad, forgive me. It's not that I don't believe that it's real, but this is the internet, and if I don't know that person in real life, I have my caution shoes on, even though I pray for the person anyway.

As I stated before, I once fell for a well-known, well-liked poster who supposedly died, even sent me an email about his death to make it more real, played on my emotions, knowing that me and a couple others from the forum were looking for a way to attend his funeral while he read our posts and said nothing. I still haven't gotten an apology to this day.

So, thanks to that person, I now have a lack of trust when it comes to these kinds of issues. I hope you and CBO can understand that.

i understand. you want to comfort the dying but as Reagan once said " Trust but verify :thumbsup

thing is, it seems that if a person was really dying they would do everything to draw close to the Lord not leave any gray areas.
where is this person and why haven't we heard back from them?

HeavenlyOne
03-12-2007, 10:22 AM
Do we REALLY know those with whom we interact with??



As someone who has personally met or spoken to several on this forum, yes, I can say that I know many of those I interact with on here.

HeavenlyOne
03-12-2007, 10:31 AM
i understand. you want to comfort the dying but as Reagan once said " Trust but verify :thumbsup

thing is, it seems that if a person was really dying they would do everything to draw close to the Lord not leave any gray areas.
where is this person and why haven't we heard back from them?

I am a caring person, indeed that is true. This is the internet, Thad. You can always believe what you hear, even when it's bad news.

LadyChocolate
03-12-2007, 10:40 AM
Do we REALLY know those with whom we interact with??

Just some thoughts.

We don't!!!! I think maybe one person on here knows who I am! no one else knows me.. i can be anyone I want you to think I am.... i can be totally caring on here and be a jerk in person. I can lead you to believe that I love chocolate and really hate it with a passion.. so, i know the rest of whom I speak with can do the same... My point.... I don't have one! ha ha

My point is, we can't become so wrapped up in emotions that we immediately feel sorry for something we read. I am on the skeptical, and somewhat untrusting side of things when it comes to strangers.... But it kept me from being fooled and kept many from a lot of pain...jmo

Newman
03-12-2007, 11:09 AM
The thing is, there were subtle clues in the opriginal post that could need some clarification.

If any other kind of sin was being subtly legitimized, there would be a similar outcry.

EXACTLY! :cool:

Ferd
03-12-2007, 12:02 PM
Interesting reading. Really.

Let me tell you all a little story. (Names have been change because I can’t remember everyone’s names)

My family and I moved to Dallas in 1985. If you remember the 1980’s was right at the beginning of the whole AIDS epidemic and Dallas had (and still does) quite a large gay community.

There was a man in our church in his late 20’s/early 30’s who was a really great guy. We will call him Bob. When we moved to Dallas Bob was one of the guys that came over and helped us get moved in. My older sister was already in Dallas, and her roommate (Sherry) and Bob were dating. Both were a little older than your average single person but really great people and everyone was very happy for them.

Eventually Bob asked Sherry to marry him. She agreed and the wedding day was fast approaching when Bob got sick. Let’s not forget that this was in the early days of AIDS when people were dying left and right and everyone was afraid that you could get it from shaking someone’s hand.

Bob had contracted AIDS. Before he came to the Lord, Bob was gay. Once he came to the Lord, he changed everything about himself that was unbecoming of a Christian. It was some years later that he and sherry began to date. What none of us knew was this insidious disease was lurking beneath the surface. Thank God it came to light before Sherry and Bob got married.

Let me say this clearly. Bob was a member of my church family. He was a great Christian man who lived a Godly life once he came to Christ. However, the lifestyle that he lived before becoming a Christian killed him. Such is the nature of sin. Once we found out that Bob had AIDS the church rallied around him. Like everyone else in America, we didn’t know how one could contract AIDS but we rallied around Bob. We prayed with him. We visited him in the hospital. When he came to church we were there for him and did not avoid him.

Sherry was so wonderful during that time. While they didn’t marry, she stayed with him and took care of him. Our church, a UPCI church did not abandon this guy and when he died we were there at the funeral crying. He was one of us, and is to this very day. I will see him in heaven one day.

The thing of importance here is that Bob forsook the sinful homosexual lifestyle. He became a new creature and lived as such until the day he died.

Some here have expressed reservations related to Chosenbyone’s story. The reason for those reservations is related to a lack of the above “things of importance”. I am with those looking

Others have expressed dismay in those who have reservations. I don’t get this at all. This is not a hospice people. This is a community of Apostolics. We do not condone the homosexual lifestyle as something that is accepted by God. No one is being uncaring or showing a lack of compassion by asking for clarity concerning the things that are important to all of us. Like it or not, Chosenbyone has left a lot of holes in the story. Those holes matter. That doesn’t mean anyone is uncaring, unkind, or somehow being ugly to someone who is obviously hurting.

I for one, hope we get some answers and some clarity.

Annie
03-12-2007, 12:13 PM
Interesting reading. Really.

Let me tell you all a little story. (Names have been change because I can’t remember everyone’s names)

My family and I moved to Dallas in 1985. If you remember the 1980’s was right at the beginning of the whole AIDS epidemic and Dallas had (and still does) quite a large gay community.

There was a man in our church in his late 20’s/early 30’s who was a really great guy. We will call him Bob. When we moved to Dallas Bob was one of the guys that came over and helped us get moved in. My older sister was already in Dallas, and her roommate (Sherry) and Bob were dating. Both were a little older than your average single person but really great people and everyone was very happy for them.

Eventually Bob asked Sherry to marry him. She agreed and the wedding day was fast approaching when Bob got sick. Let’s not forget that this was in the early days of AIDS when people were dying left and right and everyone was afraid that you could get it from shaking someone’s hand.

Bob had contracted AIDS. Before he came to the Lord, Bob was gay. Once he came to the Lord, he changed everything about himself that was unbecoming of a Christian. It was some years later that he and sherry began to date. What none of us knew was this insidious disease was lurking beneath the surface. Thank God it came to light before Sherry and Bob got married.

Let me say this clearly. Bob was a member of my church family. He was a great Christian man who lived a Godly life once he came to Christ. However, the lifestyle that he lived before becoming a Christian killed him. Such is the nature of sin. Once we found out that Bob had AIDS the church rallied around him. Like everyone else in America, we didn’t know how one could contract AIDS but we rallied around Bob. We prayed with him. We visited him in the hospital. When he came to church we were there for him and did not avoid him.

Sherry was so wonderful during that time. While they didn’t marry, she stayed with him and took care of him. Our church, a UPCI church did not abandon this guy and when he died we were there at the funeral crying. He was one of us, and is to this very day. I will see him in heaven one day.

The thing of importance here is that Bob forsook the sinful homosexual lifestyle. He became a new creature and lived as such until the day he died.

Some here have expressed reservations related to Chosenbyone’s story. The reason for those reservations is related to a lack of the above “things of importance”. I am with those looking

Others have expressed dismay in those who have reservations. I don’t get this at all. This is not a hospice people. This is a community of Apostolics. We do not condone the homosexual lifestyle as something that is accepted by God. No one is being uncaring or showing a lack of compassion by asking for clarity concerning the things that are important to all of us. Like it or not, Chosenbyone has left a lot of holes in the story. Those holes matter. That doesn’t mean anyone is uncaring, unkind, or somehow being ugly to someone who is obviously hurting.

I for one, hope we get some answers and some clarity.


I most certainly am NOT condoning homosexuality in ANY form of the word. Nor do I think God accepts it. So what if ChosenOne gives you the answers you seek...what then? That is my question. Are you gonna 'cut him off' so-to-speak and refuse him prayer and concern?

To me, in this venue, being what it is- it should make no difference in HOW we treat ChosenOne. It is a public forum. Anyone can post here. Right? I'm not gonna send him money, nor offer to fly thousands of miles to minister to him- it's not costing me anything to listen, and to PRAY.

I guess I'm not seeing the BIG picture maybe. It's different if you have invested monetarily, or emotionally in someone...but such is not the case here- at least not from where I am standing. Investing spiritually is something all saints are called to do- no matter the outcome.

Just my thoughts...I've been wrong before. *smile*

SDG
03-12-2007, 12:15 PM
I most certainly am NOT condoning homosexuality in ANY form of the word. Nor do I think God accepts it. So what if ChosenOne gives you the answers you seek...what then? That is my question. Are you gonna 'cut him off' so-to-speak and refuse him prayer and concern?

To me, in this venue, being what it is- it should make no difference in HOW we treat ChosenOne. It is a public forum. Anyone can post here. Right? I'm not gonna send him money, nor offer to fly thousands of miles to minister to him- it's not costing me anything to listen, and to PRAY.

I guess I'm not seeing the BIG picture maybe. It's different if you have invested monetarily, or emotionally in someone...but such is not the case here- at least not from where I am standing. Investing spiritually is something all saints are called to do- no matter the outcome.

Just my thoughts...I've been wrong before. *smile*

I stand w/ you Annie.

Ferd
03-12-2007, 12:26 PM
I most certainly am NOT condoning homosexuality in ANY form of the word. Nor do I think God accepts it. So what if ChosenOne gives you the answers you seek...what then? That is my question. Are you gonna 'cut him off' so-to-speak and refuse him prayer and concern?

To me, in this venue, being what it is- it should make no difference in HOW we treat ChosenOne. It is a public forum. Anyone can post here. Right? I'm not gonna send him money, nor offer to fly thousands of miles to minister to him- it's not costing me anything to listen, and to PRAY.

I guess I'm not seeing the BIG picture maybe. It's different if you have invested monetarily, or emotionally in someone...but such is not the case here- at least not from where I am standing. Investing spiritually is something all saints are called to do- no matter the outcome.

Just my thoughts...I've been wrong before. *smile*

well there you go.

J-Roc
03-12-2007, 12:51 PM
CBO, your silence on the matter a day after you posted this really does not help your cause and only helps raise doubt...after posting such revealing personal information, my thought would be that you would be glued to this thread reading and responding to the comments here and clarifying any doubts which are legitimate. I will admit, however, their delivery was not the best one used....they could have changed their approach while still getting to the heart of the matter.

Now I have some questions I'd wish you would clarify for me. In your statement below, one could interpret what you say to mean that God makes people gay...is that what you are implying?



I'm no saint by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just a product of my maker's hands.


Now, to those that are doubting CBO, it seems that he is condemning homosexuality by saying that these gay ministers are an obstacle to those they are helping because their (their meaning the gay ministers) lifestyle is testifying to the dying person that they believe homosexuality is okay. So it seems that CBO is making a call out for godly ministers to take up the role of these well-intentioned gay ministers who are obstacles.


Through my ministry, I've worked side by side with many people including gay ministers. Many who meant well by devoting their time to AIDS suffers, but became an obstacle to their salvation. Without the power of the Holy Ghost and the authority of Jesus' name the devils won't leave those on their death beds. He almost has them for eternity.


More proof that CBO believes that there is a hell for sinners:

I've witnessed souls that at the very last moment screamed Jesus, Jesus! The screams of one bound for hell. There are people on this forum who have been deceived if they think there is no hell. Sit beside a bed of a man who saw the demons coming for him, who earlier denied there ever was a Christ and yet spent his last bit of energy screaming in terror for mercy.


More proof that CBO believes first and foremost in truth...


God wants us to live in liberty and grace, but don't comprise the truth to the point that deception.

J-Roc
03-12-2007, 01:02 PM
BE AWARE EVERYONE: Although CBOs silence does not help his cause, let it be known that the last time he logged onto this forum was at 9:42pm yesterday and that the first objection by Newman was around 11:24pm....so CBO gets the benefit of the doubt that he has not read these comments...

SO DONT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS JUST YET ON CBO, although the silence raises doubt there is proof he did not see this thread yet...

CC1
03-12-2007, 01:18 PM
In all fairness to CBO he may be away from the computer today. I have been away from the forum for several weeks now.

After reading the initial post in this thread I have a lot of sympathy, compassion but like others several questions.

Unless one has the most unsympathetic family in the world it is reasonable to assume that a man with AIDS who has "lost his family" did so because AIDS was contracted through sexual sin and breaking the marital vows.

I can't imagine a wife abandoning a husband who contracted AIDS through a blood tranfusion, needle,etc.

Regardless of the details I am touched by the post and I am glad that the poster recognizes the importance of God in his life.

I believe the concern of many is that in recognizing God he is not deluded to believe that a homosexual lifestyle is not a sin and is acceptable to God.

Ultimately one is no better off acknowledging God if he continues to walk in sin willfully than the atheist who curses God til death.

Hopefully the author will clarify some things in a followup post. I am hoping the full story is that he has repented of his sexual immorality and sin and has made things right with God.

I feel great pain in my heart for a man who has lost everything he once held dear. Thankfully God is always there for us and the Holy Ghost can be the comforter it was promised to be.

BrotherEastman
03-12-2007, 01:52 PM
chosenbyone, thank you for your courage to post a great testimony. I do not know you, but I feel compelled to keep you in my prayers. It takes alot of courage to tell people what you are going through, and yet it is wonderful to know that you are being faithful. Thank you for your testimony Bro.

BrotherEastman
03-12-2007, 01:55 PM
Whether he admits it's a sin or not ... do we condemn him right now or show compassion ????

Did the adulterous woman, who was caught in the act ... admit her sin??? ... yet Jesus did not condemn her .. but urged her to go and sin no more.
Wow! we agree on something, the rapture can happen!

BrotherEastman
03-12-2007, 02:09 PM
Wow! I just finished reading this thread in its entirity, I'll have to agree with J-Roc on this one, let us give the guy a chance to respond.

Newman
03-12-2007, 02:20 PM
I most certainly am NOT condoning homosexuality in ANY form of the word. Nor do I think God accepts it. So what if ChosenOne gives you the answers you seek...what then? That is my question. Are you gonna 'cut him off' so-to-speak and refuse him prayer and concern?

To me, in this venue, being what it is- it should make no difference in HOW we treat ChosenOne. It is a public forum. Anyone can post here. Right? I'm not gonna send him money, nor offer to fly thousands of miles to minister to him- it's not costing me anything to listen, and to PRAY.

I guess I'm not seeing the BIG picture maybe. It's different if you have invested monetarily, or emotionally in someone...but such is not the case here- at least not from where I am standing. Investing spiritually is something all saints are called to do- no matter the outcome.

Just my thoughts...I've been wrong before. *smile*

Actually, that is the importance of the unwillingness to accept everything at face value. I know for a fact that there are posters that extend themselves beyond a prayer. After all faith without works is dead.

So I think it fair for posters to know the score before they invest into the life of someone who may or may not be what is posted. :cool:

chosenbyone
03-12-2007, 02:21 PM
I really don’t know where to start after reading the posts on the thread I started yesterday. I couldn’t bring myself to log on to read until a short while ago and now I’m trying to gather my thoughts.
I would like for it to be clear that I would never in any circumstance make light of the suffering of someone with AIDS. What happened to some of you who were deceived by someone claiming to have AIDS was not only an injustice to you and your good will, but all those who have AIDS. The outcome of that person’s action created reluctance for saints of God to reach out and help someone else who truly needed help.
With that said, I never asked for anyone on this forum for help, pity or compassion. It was never my intention for anyone to focus on my plight with this disease. If you were to read what I wrote, I only asked that you would consider those with AIDS as people who deserve an example of grace. Why would anyone who knows Jesus not give those so near to death and many so hungry for true compassion to show the love and compassion of Christ?
How many of you watched the video clip, Finding Grace, which was posted earlier yesterday? It relayed the stigma of shame, the isolation and the tendency to hide from the stares and condemnation that each AIDS sufferer has to endure.
Does it matter to Jesus how one got the HIV virus? Does he withhold his example of grace to those who many think are an abomination? The short answer is NO! Why then should anyone of us think ourselves better than Christ who doesn’t categorize his children and their sufferings?
I never endorsed or condoned anyone who was a gay minister. If you read the following sentence on my thread, I mentioned that they were often a hindrance to the salvation of those dying with AIDS. It was the Holy Ghost and the authority of Jesus’ name that was the only hope of those dying with AIDS. There would be no need for those gay “ministers” to be involved if more of God’s people would step up and listen to the heart of Jesus and minister to those people.

It makes me so angry to remember all those children and family members of UPC and other apostolic people who were rejected by their families. I was the one who had to comfort them and listen to their cries to be with their fathers and mothers. Where were the families that they cried for until death? They were held back by the fear of what others would say about them and their pride became their stumbling block.

I did not choose this ministry and I fought this calling as long as I could. I couldn’t have made it all these years, witnessing the despair and misery of so many, on my own. I was married in the beginning of my ministry while in California but my wife divorced me within two years. She couldn’t deal with the scorn and the shame associated with my ministry. In 1990, I moved to Houston for a fresh start and to finish my degree. For those of you wanting to confirm my validity, Bishop James Kilgore was my pastor and one of the greatest man of God I’ve ever met. He was a man of vision and allowed me to start the first AIDS care team, and the only one I know of, in a UPC church.

Though he saw the need, my fellow young ministers began to shun me and make fun of me. I didn’t let that prevent me from following the Lord’s calling. That care team was a vital ministry in that church until F.I.R.M., the Foundation of Interfaith Research Ministries created roadblocks and stopped referring clients to our team. It was also the time when the first protease inhibitors came out and people stopped dying so quickly.

I was disappointed that there were still those that needed help, but without F.I.R.M. and their license we couldn’t continue. After losing that ministry and the pressure of hiding my previous marriage from my pastor, so that I could marry the love of my life, I had a breakdown. I had to confess to my finance of my previous marriage just mere months before our marriage. I sinned against my pastor and I broke the heart of the dearest girl I’ve ever known. .

As I mentioned in my thread, I’m no saint and I spent the next three years lost in bitterness and sin, but I found my way back to my loving Savior. It was during that time away from God that I contracted the HIV virus. It was my sin and my shame that I’ve lived with everyday. I went back to hospice ministry before I was diagnosed with AIDS. I ignored all the symptoms and it wasn’t until I became so ill that I had to seek medical attention I received the news. There are over a thousand different strains of HIV and many strains don’t respond to treatment as well as the earlier strains. Some are entirely drug resistance, super viruses, and those poor souls die within months. The strain of HIV I have would be one of the later mutations of the virus. Because of my denial and refusal to seek medical treatment early on, it was very difficult for my physician to control the progression of the virus. The toxicity of the medication damaged my liver and I’m longer on any HIV medication. I’m classified as one with full blown AIDS.

I saw Bishop Kilgore around a year and a half ago and God used him to bring healing that was needed. I love that man and in my eyes he will always be my pastor. I won’t go into what happened when I started going to a particular UPC church after my meeting with Brother Kilgore. Forgive and forget, right Barb?

Now, you know the whole story and I have no more to add.

This experience has left me drained and I need to rest.

I am a sinner saved by grace and I’m not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ. My intentions were true and I hope that someone would see the need to reach out and minister to the undesirables of our society.

BrotherEastman
03-12-2007, 02:32 PM
I really don’t know where to start after reading the posts on the thread I started yesterday. I couldn’t bring myself to log on to read until a short while ago and now I’m trying to gather my thoughts.
I would like for it to be clear that I would never in any circumstance make light of the suffering of someone with AIDS. What happened to some of you who were deceived by someone claiming to have AIDS was not only an injustice to you and your good will, but all those who have AIDS. The outcome of that person’s action created reluctance for saints of God to reach out and help someone else who truly needed help.
With that said, I never asked for anyone on this forum for help, pity or compassion. It was never my intention for anyone to focus on my plight with this disease. If you were to read what I wrote, I only asked that you would consider those with AIDS as people who deserve an example of grace. Why would anyone who knows Jesus not give those so near to death and many so hungry for true compassion to show the love and compassion of Christ?
How many of you watched the video clip, Finding Grace, which was posted earlier yesterday? It relayed the stigma of shame, the isolation and the tendency to hide from the stares and condemnation that each AIDS sufferer has to endure.
Does it matter to Jesus how one got the HIV virus? Does he withhold his example of grace to those who many think are an abomination? The short answer is NO! Why then should anyone of us think ourselves better than Christ who doesn’t categorize his children and their sufferings?
I never endorsed or condoned anyone who was a gay minister. If you read the following sentence on my thread, I mentioned that they were often a hindrance to the salvation of those dying with AIDS. It was the Holy Ghost and the authority of Jesus’ name that was the only hope of those dying with AIDS. There would be no need for those gay “ministers” to be involved if more of God’s people would step up and listen to the heart of Jesus and minister to those people.

It makes me so angry to remember all those children and family members of UPC and other apostolic people who were rejected by their families. I was the one who had to comfort them and listen to their cries to be with their fathers and mothers. Where were the families that they cried for until death? They were held back by the fear of what others would say about them and their pride became their stumbling block.

I did not choose this ministry and I fought this calling as long as I could. I couldn’t have made it all these years, witnessing the despair and misery of so many, on my own. I was married in the beginning of my ministry while in California but my wife divorced me within two years. She couldn’t deal with the scorn and the shame associated with my ministry. In 1990, I moved to Houston for a fresh start and to finish my degree. For those of you wanting to confirm my validity, Bishop James Kilgore was my pastor and one of the greatest man of God I’ve ever met. He was a man of vision and allowed me to start the first AIDS care team, and the only one I know of, in a UPC church.

Though he saw the need, my fellow young ministers began to shun me and make fun of me. I didn’t let that prevent me from following the Lord’s calling. That care team was a vital ministry in that church until F.I.R.M., the Foundation of Interfaith Research Ministries created roadblocks and stopped referring clients to our team. It was also the time when the first protease inhibitors came out and people stopped dying so quickly.

I was disappointed that there were still those that needed help, but without F.I.R.M. and their license we couldn’t continue. After losing that ministry and the pressure of hiding my previous marriage from my pastor, so that I could marry the love of my life, I had a breakdown. I had to confess to my finance of my previous marriage just mere months before our marriage. I sinned against my pastor and I broke the heart of the dearest girl I’ve ever known. .

As I mentioned in my thread, I’m no saint and I spent the next three years lost in bitterness and sin, but I found my way back to my loving Savior. It was during that time away from God that I contracted the HIV virus. It was my sin and my shame that I’ve lived with everyday. I went back to hospice ministry before I was diagnosed with AIDS. I ignored all the symptoms and it wasn’t until I became so ill that I had to seek medical attention I received the news. There are over a thousand different strains of HIV and many strains don’t respond to treatment as well as the earlier strains. Some are entirely drug resistance, super viruses, and those poor souls die within months. The strain of HIV I have would be one of the later mutations of the virus. Because of my denial and refusal to seek medical treatment early on, it was very difficult for my physician to control the progression of the virus. The toxicity of the medication damaged my liver and I’m longer on any HIV medication. I’m classified as one with full blown AIDS.

I saw Bishop Kilgore around a year and a half ago and God used him to bring healing that was needed. I love that man and in my eyes he will always be my pastor. I won’t go into what happened when I started going to a particular UPC church after my meeting with Brother Kilgore. Forgive and forget, right Barb?

Now, you know the whole story and I have no more to add.

This experience has left me drained and I need to rest.

I am a sinner saved by grace and I’m not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ. My intentions were true and I hope that someone would see the need to reach out and minister to the undesirables of our society.
Help us to reach them Lord!

rgcraig
03-12-2007, 02:34 PM
I found my way back to my loving Savior. It was during that time away from God that I contracted the HIV virus. It was my sin and my shame that I’ve lived with everyday.

God forgives all sin. What's so sad is this sin leaves it's mark even after forgiveness has been given.

Just as someone who got pregnant out of wedlock and asks God to forgive them, they have a constant reminder of their sin.

Nahum
03-12-2007, 02:37 PM
Chosen, did you have a personal struggle with homosexuality throughout your life?

BTW, I am grieved by this entire situation. I will be praying for you this evening. We do care about you.

rgcraig
03-12-2007, 02:39 PM
Chosen, did you have a personal struggle with homosexuality throughout your life?

BTW, I am grieved by this entire situation. I will be praying for you this evening. We do care about you.
We are assuming it was homosexuality and it very well may have been, however, remember Magic Johnson?

BrotherEastman
03-12-2007, 02:40 PM
We are assuming it was homosexuality and it very well may have been, however, remember Magic Johnson?
I knew of someone who received AIDS in prison.

Thad
03-12-2007, 02:44 PM
At this point i don't think it matters how he got it people. the man is dying and hurting for heaven sake.


I'm praying for you ! I believe you'll make it

rgcraig
03-12-2007, 02:44 PM
At this point i don't think it matters how he got it people. the man is dying and hurting for heaven sake.


I'm praying for you ! I believe you'll make itThat's my point.

SDG
03-12-2007, 03:03 PM
My dad ... contracted a blood-borne disease ... Hepatitis C ... in his mid twenties .... after years of heroin use and sharing needles....

In 1972, he came to Christ and was freed immediately from his drug addiction ....

God made the rest of his life a fairy tale ... a drug addict from the streets of New York ... became a son of God ... a loving father ... a well respected pastor of a large congregation and leader in local fellowship affairs ....

yet ... for the next 33 years of his life he carried a death sentence for his past sins covered by the blood of Jesus .... a disease that would slowly eat away at his liver.

He did not know he was sick until 11 years before his passing ... but did not tell anyone of his illness ... not even Mom until he could not hide it anymore ..... he just simply plugged away in ministry ... unable to afford health insurance .... and consumed by a love for God's people and work ...

In all this I've come to realize

Our God .... often operates in the ironic ... and in ways we will never understand ...BUT FOR A GREATER GOOD.

It's still hard to understand why God did not cure him ....
Especially .....when so many were healed under his ministry ....or when I see my Dad's brother, a man in his 60's ... still addicted to heroin ... somewhat healthy and still alive ... albeit a vain existence ... having destroyed his life and family ..... or when a simple transplant would have prolonged his life.

And so the question begs to be asked why does God allow such things???? ....

The short answer is that the wages of sin is death .... while he has offered us eternal life and life in abundance....

but

Paul also tells us that in knowing him ... we also participate in the fellowship of His suffering .....

Chosen .... I'm in your corner ... praying for you ... please read my PM

I love you and I will follow your advice ... God help us reach the lost and least among us.


Dan.

J-Roc
03-12-2007, 03:32 PM
Thank you, CBO, for clarifying and sharing your story. Thank God for his grace...his mercy endures forever! Hopefully, this will also serve to temper knee-jerk reactions. Some come across way too cavalier as if to say, "look at me I have the gift of discernment"....blah blah blah.

Trouvere
03-12-2007, 04:00 PM
I knew of someone who received AIDS in prison.

I work at a correctional and lots of them have aids.I treat people everyday who have it.There are more than you think out there and younger than they used to be.

Thad
03-12-2007, 04:04 PM
I work at a correctional and lots of them have aids.I treat people everyday who have it.There are more than you think out there and younger than they used to be.


my father worked in Prison ministry for years. Oh the stories I could tell.
not for mixed company or public viewing. it's certainly a different world more than the average person knows. most people wont discuss it ever.

also, a lot of women are getting HIV from men on the DL (down low)

Trouvere
03-12-2007, 04:09 PM
my father worked in Prison ministry for years. Oh the stories I could tell.
not for mixed company or public viewing. it's certainly a different world more than the average person knows. most people wont discuss it ever.

also, a lot of women are getting HIV from men on the DL (down low)

Sorry to say but most men in prison are on the downlow

Felicity
03-12-2007, 04:13 PM
What's the "down low"?

Never heard tell of it before.

SDG
03-12-2007, 04:15 PM
What's the "down low"?

Never heard tell of it before.

Having secretive homosexual relations while still professing and being involved in heterosexual relationships.

Felicity
03-12-2007, 04:19 PM
Having secretive homosexual relations while still professing and being involved in heterosexual relationships.Oh okay. Thanks Dan.

I thought it was well known that this is fairly prominent in prisons.

Newman
03-12-2007, 04:38 PM
Thank you, CBO, for clarifying and sharing your story. Thank God for his grace...his mercy endures forever! Hopefully, this will also serve to temper knee-jerk reactions. Some come across way too cavalier as if to say, "look at me I have the gift of discernment"....blah blah blah.

Hmm...sometimes what is not said is more important than what is said. ;)

SDG
03-12-2007, 04:44 PM
More evidence that ChosenbyOne /Living by Grace [this nick was provided by CBO in post 1} ... does not condone homosexuality ...

http://goodnewscafe.net/forums/showthread.php?p=259552#post259552



http://goodnewscafe.net/forums/showthread.php?p=260643#post260643

Rhymis
03-12-2007, 04:44 PM
ok I will "not say" -----

Newman
03-12-2007, 04:59 PM
More evidence that ChosenbyOne /Living by Grace [this nick was provided by CBO in post 1} ... does not condone homosexuality ...

http://goodnewscafe.net/forums/showthread.php?p=259552#post259552



http://goodnewscafe.net/forums/showthread.php?p=260643#post260643

Daniel- I have learned the hard way; after the fact...that there are so called "Apostolic" churches that condemn homosexuality but do not include a monogamous relationship in such a definition.

I believed (hook, line and sinker) the poster who deceived us for more than a year about those awful parents who would not show up at their dying child's bedside even though their child was back in "church." :cool:

SDG
03-12-2007, 05:03 PM
Daniel- I have learned the hard way; after the fact...that there are so called "Apostolic" churches that condemn homosexuality but do not include a monogamous relationship in such a definition.

I believed (hook, line and sinker) the poster who deceived us for more than a year about those awful parents who would not show up at their dying child's bedside even though their child was back in "church." :cool:

Newman ... forgive me .. I don't mean to be crass ... have you read through CBO's posts ... and the links he provided to Dear Rhoni ... he was congregating in UPCI churches before and after backsliding .... He also has stated that he is not attending a church right now ...

I am sorry you were burned in the past ... and I can understand you being at cautious ... but I think there's enough here to make some basic assumptions ....

Trouvere
03-12-2007, 05:05 PM
Daniel- I have learned the hard way; after the fact...that there are so called "Apostolic" churches that condemn homosexuality but do not include a monogamous relationship in such a definition.

I believed (hook, line and sinker) the poster who deceived us for more than a year about those awful parents who would not show up at their dying child's bedside even though their child was back in "church." :cool:

Who was that poster child sister Newman?

BoredOutOfMyMind
03-12-2007, 05:07 PM
Newman ... forgive me .. I don't mean to be crass ... have you read through CBO's posts ... and the links he provided to Dear Rhoni ... he was congregating in UPCI churches before and after backsliding .... He also has stated that he is not attending a church right now ...

I am sorry you were burned in the past ... and I can understand you being at cautious ... but I think there's enough here to make some basic assumptions ....

Daniel, the burn of the past was difficult to over come.

I wondered if this was for real myself.

It has the earmarks of a classic troll at first read.

J-Roc
03-12-2007, 05:09 PM
Well if we are suckered into showing compassion toward those that are disenfranchised by society and prompted to go help those souls....this is great gain. Even if some do not believe this poster, a prompt to reach out to those with AIDS is not unworthy of attention. If anyone has a hard time believing this thread, then see it as a parable....there are still things to learn from it, regardless of its veracity.

Coonskinner
03-12-2007, 05:10 PM
You all cut Newman and HO some slack.

If it was a pastor who had burned them, the mercy would be overwhelming. :)

SDG
03-12-2007, 05:10 PM
You all cut Newman and HO some slack.

If it was a pastor who had burned them, the mercy would be overwhelming. :)

I'll cut you some slack ....

J-Roc
03-12-2007, 05:11 PM
You all cut Newman and HO some slack.

If it was a pastor who had burned them, the mercy would be overwhelming. :)


To whom much is given much is expected... :tease

Coonskinner
03-12-2007, 05:13 PM
I'll cut you some slack ....

I didn't request any for myself.

SDG
03-12-2007, 05:15 PM
I didn't request any for myself.

Consider it a loan.

Newman
03-12-2007, 05:15 PM
Newman ... forgive me .. I don't mean to be crass ... have you read through CBO's posts ... and the links he provided to Dear Rhoni ... he was congregating in UPCI churches before and after backsliding .... He also has stated that he is not attending a church right now ...

I am sorry you were burned in the past ... and I can understand you being at cautious ... but I think there's enough here to make some basic assumptions ....

If there is true repentance; then why wouldn't he be treated with much love and respect as was posted by two other posters who watched their churches deal with AIDS?

Why doesn't he unequivicably say that even a monagamous homosexual relationship is a sin?

And what kind of churches was he going to where parents did not care for and comfort their child because of a pride issue?

I think time will tell.... :cool:

Coonskinner
03-12-2007, 05:20 PM
If there is true repentance; then why wouldn't he be treated with much love and respect as was posted by two other posters who watched their churches deal with AIDS?

Why doesn't he unequivicably say that even a monagamous homosexual relationship is a sin?

And what kind of churches was he going to where parents did not care for and comfort their child because of a pride issue?

I think time will tell.... :cool:

Newman, we have been on the opposite side of a few issues, but I am with you on this one.

I think the "clarification" could have been a little "clarificationer" than it was.

burnedtoo
03-12-2007, 07:33 PM
I think the "clarification" could have been a little "clarificationer" than it was.

Forgive the intrusion, but I desire to speak to this issue. The posters who have approached this with caution have a reason to do so. It has nothing to do with not praying for someone in need, nor does it indicate a lack of compassion. Apparently some have not been burned by those who claim to have a ministry toward homosexuals and state they are against "the lifestyle."

This is nothing against the original poster, but consider that what you read and hear may not at all be what is meant.

You may hear someone write strongly against a homosexual lifestyle. They will emphatically state they are against it. It may seem all so crystal clear that they are fully condemning homosexuality as sin, just as is evidenced in posts here by those who have not been burned. But what is really meant by the statement? One cannot take the statements at face value in today's world.

An individual used to do this very thing and was active in multiple groups. He said things in a very deceptive way, knowing the Christians reading would take the statements to mean he felt homosexuality was wrong and a sin, just like them. What he meant by the lifestyle was NOT homosexuality itself, but the all too often partying, drinking and drugs, along with multiple partners, that often goes with the territory. He was by no means against a one on one homosexual lifestyle and all the time while writing everyone, he was with his gay partner from childhood days. And at least later, if not during that time, he had a Meth habit as did the partner.

This person deliberately deceived a great many people. He had a ministry toward homosexuals, too. When that ministry isn't nailed down in definition, many unsuspecting Christians are lead to believe a lie. What is said is not what they think. The gay ministry wasn't leading people from homosexuality, just the wild life side of the lifestyle. It in fact condoned a faithful homosexual relationship.

Still don't think people have the right to be cautious in this area? Read further and see just how far the deception can go.

The person claimed to be the son of a Pentecostal Holiness minister, with a sister/b-i-l who also was PH. He claimed to have repented of his lifestyle. Yes, he had AIDS. Still does. He claimed to be a minister, working with a church that ministered to gays and did not condone the lifestyle. He would fly places to be with those on their deathbed or attend their funerals.

Then he became very ill, or so he said. Things were touch and go. Nothing was heard from him for awhile. Then the emails came saying he had died. Searches for the so-called minister father/mother pulled up nothing. Even for the sister and her husband. And the brothers. No death record could be found.

Then he became even more deceptive and posed as his own sister, rejoining a board, and reminiscing about himself. People sent sympathy cards. After a little while he was silent. So many were grieved over the loss of a man they thought was someone they were not.

And time goes by.

Then posts were seen in other places by the "dead" man. Explicit gay pictures and profiles were discovered online of this dead man, being accessed and even started after his death. One who had contact with the man's partner claimed the partner stated they were the one doing it and had their reasons and that the man was truly dead. We should all just let it go. It was asked if the "church people" knew these things.

Very little happened for awhile.

Then the dead man came out with his own domain and web site late last year and announced his marriage to this partner (did it in Canada). Many pictures are on the site, indicating anything but a Pentecostal Holiness mother. Just how deep did the deception go? Perhaps only God will ever know the answer. Perhaps it was him all along, while he was "alive," sharing with us as his relatives.

Not yet convinced of what this means? Consider the following.

Someone confesses their past homosexual lifestyle, shares about their ministry to gay people, and states they are against the lifestyle and have full blown AIDS as a result of their past. What harm could be done? Wake up to things go on behind the scenes. This man was encouraging more than one individual toward one on one homosexuality. Those people knew his deception in how he portrayed himself, but remained silent (which is understandable as they would have been outed). One woman left her husband and went to live with a woman 'partner' met via the internet after contact with this man.

So you say that's just one story. Far from it. There's more, even from the Houston area. Came across another with AIDS who also had a ministry to homosexuals and a UPCI background. Claimed they were no longer gay. Yet there were explicit pictures and gay profiles found online quite easily. The man just couldn't recall everything to take them down. Yep. Sure.

Have compassion? Absolutely. Pray for the people. Definitely. Minister to them? Of course. Believe everything said when it's not nailed down what they mean? No way. Never, ever again.

Words don't always mean what they appear to say. If a person cannot come clean and explicitly state what is meant, don't condone or give God's speed to their "ministry."

chosenbyone
03-12-2007, 07:37 PM
Newman, we have been on the opposite side of a few issues, but I am with you on this one.

I think the "clarification" could have been a little "clarification" than it was.

I just logged back onto this forum with great hesitation. I felt that I was losing my anonymity the more I shared my life here on this thread. Like many of you, I enjoyed being just another poster who loved God and wanted fellowship and maybe a good debate with other people of the same faith.

I wrote in an email recently to Rhoni explaining how much joy I received by being chosebyone because I didn't have to feel ashamed of what people saw when they looked at me. I know there are other forums on the web, but you guys were special.

Before, I fill in some "holes" that some brothers feel are necessary in order to get to the dirt (pun intended). I wanted to address those who showed Christ in their posts. I was touched by many of your posts and certainly appreciated reading that you would pray for me. I don't want to seem ungrateful, but I never asked for any focus to be on me.

Turn those prayers to the ones who don't have the assurance of their salvation. I found that I have so much to be thankful for everyday of my life. The Lord told us that if we were to draw near to him, that he would draw near to us. That particular scripture has been played out so beautifully in my life.

I shared earlier that I was an AIDS care team leader at Life Tabernacle starting in 1991 and Bishop Kilgore was my pastor. If you ask around you can verify the facts. As far as witnessing the children of UPC and other apostolic Christians' pass away without their parents, you may contact Ray Highfield for he knew many that I referred to earlier.

I'm a child of God and there would be no reason on earth for me to jeopardize my salvation by spinning lies here on this forum. Would you like for me forward my medical records to you so you could be satisfied that I have AIDS? For goodness sakes!

I'll close this post by saying that I am a real person, I am a child of God, I am a sinner saved by grace, I am fortunate to have a friend in Jesus, I am a Christian who has AIDS.

I almost left out the "dirt" part. I wouldn't want to disappoint anyone! I don't know why certain people couldn't figure it out but wanted me to say it, but here it goes...I indeed was infected with HIV by having sex with another man. As embarrassing it was for me to say that, I hope it puts all this to rest. I have been delivered and I'm forgiving.

My salvation doesn't lie in the hands of men for surely they would condemn me to death. Thank God that he is my judge and he is my friend and at this point in life that's all that really matters to me.

See you heaven...

Thad
03-12-2007, 07:42 PM
I understand your point and thanks for clarifying the difference. I guess you do have to read between the lines which is sometimes not easy to do when words are so carefully chosen so that the casual reader would not pick up on this. I typically don't read things as a lawyer would read them maybe that's the difference :heeheehee
anyhow, what I see here though (if i understood right) is we have a man that is terminal . if a person is hurting and dying let's set the other things aside such as Howhe contracted it and try give the person a chance to make his peace with God

burnedtoo
03-12-2007, 07:50 PM
if a person is hurting and dying let's set the other things aside such as How he contracted it

Agreed. Personally, I don't care how it was contacted. What is believed about a homosexual lifestyle is what matters after seeing so very much deception. Simply stating one is against it no longer does it as in this area, people know all too well how to play with words. And again, my post isn't about chosenbyone, but about gay ministries in general.

Thad
03-12-2007, 07:54 PM
Agreed. Personally, I don't care how it was contacted. What is believed about a homosexual lifestyle is what matters after seeing so very much deception. Simply stating one is against it no longer does it as in this area, people know all too well how to play with words. And again, my post isn't about chosenbyone, but about gay ministries in general.

that's good to know. I was under the impression that all gay ministries was against it , especially if they call themselves christian evangelical or conservative. there are some in the Bay area that I know that are not but they are mainline or open liberal and quite upfront about it
was chosen one clear on where he stood on this ?

burnedtoo
03-12-2007, 07:59 PM
Interesting read on AOL, chosenbyone, made under your AIM ID:

What you do in the dark while come to the light. It's ironic that the ones who take such a strong stance on an issue are the ones who hide and do the very things that they oppose. I'm a gay christian man and I've dealt with many pastors and evangelists who spewed their hatred upon gays and lesbians. After years of my involvement in the ministry, I can you that many, many homosexuals are in ministry in some of the most conservative churches. It's time in America to focus on what God really is and that is love. Shame on those who don't demonstrate the very priniciple of love thy neighbor. All those wolves in sheeps' clothing while be exposed! Beware Jerry Falwell and all you other hateful ministers of another god!
Comment from chooselove40 - 11/6/06 7:51 PM

Found here at: http://journals.aol.com/thefeedblog/AOLNewsTheFeed/entries/2006/11/06/info-junkie--falling-from-grace/2415

burnedtoo
03-12-2007, 08:00 PM
I really, really, do not care for deception in this area. Now you can see why certain words were not written.

Thad
03-12-2007, 08:02 PM
I really, really, do not care for deception in this area. Now you can see why certain words were not written.

this quote that you just posted was from someone who went by choose love40
this person here goes by chosenbyone. are you sure they are the same ?

SDG
03-12-2007, 08:02 PM
IAs embarrassing it was for me to say that, I hope it puts all this to rest. I have been delivered and I'm forgiven

You are a courageous man ... Chosen.....

We all need the blood.

Stay strong .... keep the faith.

burnedtoo
03-12-2007, 08:03 PM
this quote that you just posted was from someone who went by choose love40
this person here goes by chosenbyone. are you sure they are the same ?

It's the AIM ID given in his profile right here.

Thad
03-12-2007, 08:06 PM
It's the AIM ID given in his profile right here.


O i see . wow! well, I would really appreciate if CBO would explain this and his REAL Stance on this lifestyle.
CBO, what did you mean when you said "I've been delivered " ?

burnedtoo
03-12-2007, 08:10 PM
Thad, I doubt you will hear more from this poster. Their own words written elsewhere, just months ago, speak more clearly than their posts on this board in regard to where they stand on homosexuality.

Thad
03-12-2007, 08:11 PM
Thad, I doubt you will hear more from this poster. Their own words, written just months ago, speak more clearly than their posts on this board in regard to where they stand on homosexuality.


okay

do you believe they are being truthful about dying of AIDS ?

SDG
03-12-2007, 08:11 PM
O i see . wow! well, I would really appreciate if CBO would explain this and his REAL Stance on this lifestyle.
CBO, what did you mean when you said "I've been delivered " ?

For a balanced view .... These are also his statements ....

http://goodnewscafe.net/forums/showt...552#post259552

http://goodnewscafe.net/forums/showthread.php?p=260643#post260643

berkeley
03-12-2007, 08:13 PM
O i see . wow! well, I would really appreciate if CBO would explain this and his REAL Stance on this lifestyle.
CBO, what did you mean when you said "I've been delivered " ?Anything for a story!!

burnedtoo
03-12-2007, 08:16 PM
do you believe they are being truthful about dying of AIDS ?


Thad, my posts are not about this, but deception in the gay ministry area. Being that he states he is gay, I have no reason to disbelieve that he has AIDS.

If you're going to come on a board and post these things, be honest. Especially when one can readily do an internet search and find what's really up.

All the more reason why the man needs the prayers of Christians. May he be delivered completely from the deception found in homosexuality.

Newman
03-12-2007, 08:19 PM
O i see . wow! well, I would really appreciate if CBO would explain this and his REAL Stance on this lifestyle.
CBO, what did you mean when you said "I've been delivered " ?

Do you believe a monagamous homosexual relationship is a sin? Question from page 1 that has yet to be answered.

Not to mention the very interesting reading from AIM...

Backsliders post here but they don't pretend to be saved. Other viewpoints post here but we recognize the intent of their words. It is not hidden behind double speak.

And for the record, it was also Christ who threw the money handlers out of the Temple. Kindness without Truth is not kindness. :cool:

rrford
03-12-2007, 08:21 PM
Interesting read on AOL, chosenbyone, made under your AIM ID:



Found here at: http://journals.aol.com/thefeedblog/AOLNewsTheFeed/entries/2006/11/06/info-junkie--falling-from-grace/2415

Ther is no such thing as a "gay Christian."



It would now seem that this poster is indeed being deceptive.

burnedtoo
03-12-2007, 08:26 PM
Not to mention the very interesting reading from AIM...


Indeed. After initially posting, I went to his profile and saw the AIM ID. I decided to do what I usually do in such cases and did an internet search. It wasn't difficult at all to find the truth posted in his very own words. And that is why your question was never addressed.

Nahum
03-12-2007, 08:35 PM
This is what I had feared it was.

Please understand that I have the utmost compassion for anyone held captive by sin. This is somewhat more. There was a subtle attempt at deception that a few perceptive posters recognized immediately That is why we withheld comment and proceeded with great caution.

Even with the double-speak, I am still very concerned for ChosenByOne. Both for his life, and the sin that has wrecked it.

Chosen, I love you with the love of Jesus and pray that you find the peace of God present in the months to come.

rrford
03-12-2007, 08:36 PM
This is what I had feared it was.

Please understand that I have the utmost compassion for anyone held captive by sin. This is somewhat more. There was a subtle attempt at deception that a few perceptive posters recognized immediately That is why we withheld comment and proceeded with great caution.

Even with the double-speak, I am still very concerned for ChosenByOne. Both for his life, and the sin that has wrecked it.

Chosen, I love you with the love of Jesus and pray that you find the peace of God present in the months to come.

A gree with all of this.

StillStanding
03-12-2007, 09:13 PM
Ther is no such thing as a "gay Christian."



It would now seem that this poster is indeed being deceptive.

I won't say that gays are in the bride of Christ, but I know some gays that truly loved God. They believed in Christ, so some would call them Christians.

After years of finding no reception in the church, the gays that I know have finally left church and God behind.

I don't have an answer for this, as I believe a church has to draw a line when it comes to gays.

rrford
03-12-2007, 09:38 PM
I won't say that gays are in the bride of Christ, but I know some gays that truly loved God. They believed in Christ, so some would call them Christians.

After years of finding no reception in the church, the gays that I know have finally left church and God behind.

I don't have an answer for this, as I believe a church has to draw a line when it comes to gays.

Sorry Bro. Gays do not really love God. You cannot love a God you refuse to obey.

J-Roc
03-12-2007, 09:45 PM
The matter at hand here is to remember the disenfranchised...those shunned by society. If homosexuals can't even make it through our church doors...the place that should be a city of refuge...where else can they find hope and mercy...this sin has to be dealt with and corrected as any other....but you don't see adulterers and other types of sinners disenfranchised as you do homosexuals. So, the call in this thread is to reach out to that shunned group for they too are in need of a Savior...this is not about CBO (for he can go to Bishop Kilgore for any counseling he needs in his life).

Perhaps too many churches are homophobic and those that are need to mature spiritually. For such a powerful stronghold that homosexuality is, we need to confront it all the more...and not by bashing it, but by helping in the deliverance process.

Thad
03-12-2007, 09:49 PM
The matter at hand here is to remember the disenfranchised...those shunned by society. If homosexuals can't even make it through our church doors...the place that should be a city of refuge...where else can they find hope and mercy...this sin has to be dealt with and corrected as any other....but you don't see adulterers and other types of sinners disenfranchised as you do homosexuals. So, the call in this thread is to reach out to that shunned group for they too are in need of a Savior...this is not about CBO (for he can go to Bishop Kilgore for any counseling he needs in his life).

Perhaps too many churches are homophobic and those that are need to mature spiritually. For such a powerful stronghold that homosexuality is, we need to confront it all the more...and not by bashing it, but by helping in the deliverance process.


well the church is embarking on a new problem. maybe it hasn't hit the bible belt yet but some of the youth we are getting saved today here in the west have to be TOLD and TAUGHT that it's NOT wrong! can you believe it? well, it's here. a generation completley removed from God

don't say it's not coming to your area

Annie
03-12-2007, 09:51 PM
I hope I never feel the need to unload all of my sin on an open forum...

So, folks, apparently you were right...when do I get 'ran out of town on the rail'????

Do I get points for saying that I STILL feel compassion for this man? Because he is in a 'no win' situation in several areas of his life, and his very soul is at stake.

Chosen...I pray that you fall on the rock and be broken. There's a Judgement Day coming for all of us. Help us, Lord.

rrford
03-12-2007, 09:53 PM
I hope I never feel the need to unload all of my sin on an open forum...

So, folks, apparently you were right...when do I get 'ran out of town on the rail'????

Do I get points for saying that I STILL feel compassion for this man? Because he is in a 'no win' situation in several areas of his life, and his very soul is at stake.

Chosen...I pray that you fall on the rock and be broken. There's a Judgement Day coming for all of us. Help us, Lord.

Annie, read the last several posts carefully. Many of us still have concern for the man and his sin, as well as compassion for his condition. That was never the issue.

It is just that some of us have had years of experience in dealing with folks and can sometimes tell when the whole stroy is not being told.

Besides that, there may not be a railroad line anywhere near where you are. :heeheehee

J-Roc
03-12-2007, 09:56 PM
well the church is embarking on a new problem. maybe it hasn't hit the bible belt yet but some of the youth we are getting saved today have to be TOLD and TAUGHT that it's wrong! can you believe it? well, it's here. a generation completley removed from God

don't say it's not coming to your area

We can blame that on the secular schools...which raises another issue that should be dealt with...how local churches should form a network so that our churches can provide christian schools (k-12) for our children....I know I will do whatever I have to do (even if I have to put in extra hours to earn more money) in order to send my children to private christian schools throughout their school years...

Newman
03-12-2007, 09:57 PM
The matter at hand here is to remember the disenfranchised...those shunned by society. If homosexuals can't even make it through our church doors...the place that should be a city of refuge...where else can they find hope and mercy...this sin has to be dealt with and corrected as any other....but you don't see adulterers and other types of sinners disenfranchised as you do homosexuals. So, the call in this thread is to reach out to that shunned group for they too are in need of a Savior...this is not about CBO (for he can go to Bishop Kilgore for any counseling he needs in his life).

Perhaps too many churches are homophobic and those that are need to mature spiritually. For such a powerful stronghold that homosexuality is, we need to confront it all the more...and not by bashing it, but by helping in the deliverance process.

Homosexuality shunned by society? You have got to be kidding! Thanks to TV and Hollywood it is fashionable.

Churches homophobic? Yeah, they still tend to call sin, sin and insist that Christ calls us to be new creatures. And for the record that applies to the adulterer too. :cool:

rrford
03-12-2007, 09:57 PM
We can blame that on the secular schools...which raises another issue that should be dealt with...how local churches should form a network so that our churches can provide christian schools (k-12) for our children....I know I will do whatever I have to do (even if I have to put in extra hours to earn more money) in order to send my children to private christian schools throughout their school years...

Indeed. Or Home School them.

Annie
03-12-2007, 09:58 PM
Annie, read the last several posts carefully. Many of us still have concern for the man and his sin, as well as compassion for his condition. That was never the issue.

It is just that some of us have had years of experience in dealing with folks and can sometimes tell when the whole stroy is not being told.

Besides that, there may not be a railroad line anywhere near where you are. :heeheehee



:sad There IS....LOL You are too kind...I am just too tenderhearted, I guess. Hubby complains that I would rescue every lost cat and dog around, if we could afford to feed'em...I always had a house full of 'lost kids' when my own were teenagers...

God is good....*smile*

J-Roc
03-12-2007, 09:58 PM
Indeed. Or Home School them.

Though that is not as easy and practical for all.

rrford
03-12-2007, 10:02 PM
Though that is not as easy and practical for all.

No. Thus far we are finding it worth the effort. Actually saves some expense and has been good for our daughter. We may put her back in a Christian school next year for the interaction.

J-Roc
03-12-2007, 10:06 PM
No. Thus far we are finding it worth the effort. Actually saves some expense and has been good for our daughter. We may put her back in a Christian school next year for the interaction.


You are fortunate to have that ability...some parents are not sufficiently qualified to teach some of the subjects and other parents work...how old is your daughter?

rrford
03-12-2007, 10:10 PM
You are fortunate to have that ability...some parents are not sufficiently qualified to teach some of the subjects and other parents work...how old is your daughter?

15 going on 20. :heeheehee

rrford
03-12-2007, 10:11 PM
Annie- You are kind. But there are cries for help and there are cries for validation. Help should be available when it is sincerely sought. Validation of sin should not. :cool:

Ahh, the proverbial nail and hammer. Like "validation get togethers" cloaked as "celebrations," huh? :ranting

Annie
03-12-2007, 10:11 PM
Annie- You are kind. But there are cries for help and there are cries for validation. Help should be available when it is sincerely sought. Validation of sin should not. :cool:


Lord, help me learn the difference. I AM too trusting, which is miraculous considering my background...

God bless...

Thad
03-12-2007, 10:11 PM
well the church is embarking on a new problem. maybe it hasn't hit the bible belt yet but some of the youth we are getting saved today here in the west have to be TOLD and TAUGHT that it's NOT wrong! can you believe it? well, it's here. a generation completley removed from God

don't say it's not coming to your area


oops- meant to say they are being taught that it is NOT wrong

I just ammended the above post

J-Roc
03-12-2007, 10:11 PM
Annie- You are kind. But there are cries for help and there are cries for validation. Help should be available when it is sincerely sought. Validation of sin should not. :cool:


There was no cry for validation, however! There was a cry for requesting ministers to reach those dying with AIDS.

Newman
03-12-2007, 10:14 PM
There was no cry for validation, however! There was a cry for requesting ministers to reach those dying with AIDS.

J-Roc- Let's talk when your older and have experienced more of life. ;)

berkeley
03-12-2007, 10:14 PM
J-Roc- Let's talk when your older and have experienced more of life. ;):heeheehee

J-Roc
03-12-2007, 10:15 PM
J-Roc- Let's talk when your older and have experienced more of life. ;)


And join you in Jurassic Park??? No, thanks. :tease

Newman
03-12-2007, 10:17 PM
And join you in Jurassic Park??? No, thanks. :tease

Great come back! :killinme

J-Roc
03-12-2007, 10:17 PM
Great come back! :killinme



:highfive

CC1
03-12-2007, 10:53 PM
- I grieve for chosen's medical situation and pray for him.
- It is a shame and unbelievable to me that any parent would shun their children even if the children were in sin. You can love without condoning lifestyle or behaviour.
- Like Newman and others I still have not seen chosen condemn homosexuality in any of his posts and that is what bothers me. I have a feeling (and the quote from his AIM profile someone posted seems to bear this out) that he is one of those "Pentecostal" "gays who has been deluded into believing the bible condones homosexuality. Back on FCF a couple of years ago someone posted a link to a homosexual Pentecostal groups bible study on this subject and it was hoffific. They tried to say that David and Saul were homosexual lovers.

In any case Chosen I sincerely am praying for you and I wish you well. Don't ever be embarressed to have dialogue with others because except for the grace of God anyone reading this could be in a worse situation than you are in.

Praxeas
03-12-2007, 11:01 PM
- I grieve for chosen's medical situation and pray for him.
- It is a shame and unbelievable to me that any parent would shun their children even if the children were in sin. You can love without condoning lifestyle or behaviour.
- Like Newman and others I still have not seen chosen condemn homosexuality in any of his posts and that is what bothers me. I have a feeling (and the quote from his AIM profile someone posted seems to bear this out) that he is one of those "Pentecostal" "gays who has been deluded into believing the bible condones homosexuality. Back on FCF a couple of years ago someone posted a link to a homosexual Pentecostal groups bible study on this subject and it was hoffific. They tried to say that David and Saul were homosexual lovers.

In any case Chosen I sincerely am praying for you and I wish you well. Don't ever be embarressed to have dialogue with others because except for the grace of God anyone reading this could be in a worse situation than you are in.
David and Jonathan you mean. Yes it's incredible. And even worse than that. I have had "gay Christians" claim Christ approved of gay sex between men and argued over the verse they used....which was really about eating food not defiling the person. Real sick...and it was amazing to see how histerical and angry some get arguing over scriptures

CC1
03-12-2007, 11:06 PM
David and Jonathan you mean. Yes it's incredible. And even worse than that. I have had "gay Christians" claim Christ approved of gay sex between men and argued over the verse they used....which was really about eating food not defiling the person. Real sick...and it was amazing to see how histerical and angry some get arguing over scriptures

Prax,

I just read some of your posts on another thread and after reading of your financial situation I am ashamed I have ever complained, even if just to myself, about mine. I have never been wealthy but I am a time in my life where though in debt way too much (I am working my way out) I do have many of the things I always wanted. I almost feel guilty which is pretty funny because I still spend less and have less than many people. Everything is relative I guess.

HeavenlyOne
03-13-2007, 12:08 AM
You all cut Newman and HO some slack.

If it was a pastor who had burned them, the mercy would be overwhelming. :)

Oh, I think you know........:D

HeavenlyOne
03-13-2007, 12:13 AM
Interesting read on AOL, chosenbyone, made under your AIM ID:



Found here at: http://journals.aol.com/thefeedblog/AOLNewsTheFeed/entries/2006/11/06/info-junkie--falling-from-grace/2415

Oh boy.........

Bishop1
03-13-2007, 12:17 AM
GOD Hated homosexuality so much

That HE Destroyed Sodom & Gomorra With


F I R E

&

B R I M S T O N E !









Bishop1
:beatdeadhorse

HeavenlyOne
03-13-2007, 12:18 AM
And join you in Jurassic Park??? No, thanks. :tease

Oh......burn........

Can't say more though.....LOL!

Coonskinner
03-13-2007, 07:36 AM
The matter at hand here is to remember the disenfranchised...those shunned by society. If homosexuals can't even make it through our church doors...the place that should be a city of refuge...where else can they find hope and mercy...this sin has to be dealt with and corrected as any other....but you don't see adulterers and other types of sinners disenfranchised as you do homosexuals. So, the call in this thread is to reach out to that shunned group for they too are in need of a Savior...this is not about CBO (for he can go to Bishop Kilgore for any counseling he needs in his life).

Perhaps too many churches are homophobic and those that are need to mature spiritually. For such a powerful stronghold that homosexuality is, we need to confront it all the more...and not by bashing it, but by helping in the deliverance process.

I absolutely and completely reject the notion that gays "can't even make it through our church doors."

That is a slanderous and untrue statement, whether that was the intent or not.

There are no doubt some crude and prejudiced pastors and churches here and there who would not even attempt to minister to a homosexual who wanted to be saved, but I absolutely do not believe it is the norm.

The situation in this thread is an illustration of exactly what I feared it was.

Any homosexual that wants to repent and foprsake their sin is more than welcome where I pastor.

The deliverance "process" has a Scriptural name that I prefer to use--it is called "Repentance."

It includes forsaking the sin, not just saying "I'm sorry."

Far too many homosexuals want to find "acceptance" in the church, not repentance.

Those kind always wind up trying to recruit and spread that vile spirit around.

You shortchange the sinner and insult the Blood of Jesus when you promote this idea that homosexuality won't respond to plain and simple repentance and forsaking of the sin, and that it has to have some special ministry of deliverance and counselling to get its tentacles loosed.

The message to the gay is the same as to the adulterer--repent or perish.

I get vexed in my spirit when people indict God's Church, especially when it is from a position of supposed superior compassion and lofty spirituality.

StillStanding
03-13-2007, 07:37 AM
Sorry Bro. Gays do not really love God. You cannot love a God you refuse to obey.

I think I understand what you're saying, but it some cases it's not a matter of refusing to obey. Some just don't have the self discipline to overcome temptations. They try to do the right thing, but give in at a point of weakness.

Do pastors, or any Christian for that matter, not really love God if they have an extramarital affair? I don't think it's a matter of throwing the relationship with God away. Maybe it's taking the love of God for granted.

Coonskinner
03-13-2007, 07:38 AM
There was no cry for validation, however! There was a cry for requesting ministers to reach those dying with AIDS.

Baloney.

J-Roc
03-13-2007, 08:05 AM
I absolutely and completely reject the notion that gays "can't even make it through our church doors."

That is a slanderous and untrue statement, whether that was the intent or not.

There are no doubt some crude and prejudiced pastors and churches here and there who would not even attempt to minister to a homosexual who wanted to be saved, but I absolutely do not believe it is the norm.

The situation in this thread is an illustration of exactly what I feared it was.

Any homosexual that wants to repent and foprsake their sin is more than welcome where I pastor.

The deliverance "process" has a Scriptural name that I prefer to use--it is called "Repentance."

It includes forsaking the sin, not just saying "I'm sorry."

Far too many homosexuals want to find "acceptance" in the church, not repentance.

Those kind always wind up trying to recruit and spread that vile spirit around.

You shortchange the sinner and insult the Blood of Jesus when you promote this idea that homosexuality won't respond to plain and simple repentance and forsaking of the sin, and that it has to have some special ministry of deliverance and counselling to get its tentacles loosed.

The message to the gay is the same as to the adulterer--repent or perish.

I get vexed in my spirit when people indict God's Church, especially when it is from a position of supposed superior compassion and lofty spirituality.


1- The phrase was a hypothetical and used as a reminder that our churches are to be cities of refuge highlighting the fact that homosexuals are shunned from society in ways that other sins are not...and so the doors of the church really need to be open to this group of people for where else will they find refuge if not the church...so calm down, cowboy.

2- Let's not go into an oblivion about what is happening with homosexuals...when dealing with some of them you are dealing with folks that are deeply in love and have a strong emotional bond with their partner (let's set aside the fact that this relationship is sinful...that is not the issue here). The fact remains that some of them are indeed emotionally attached in their relationship in the same manner that a heterosexual couple is attached. For the heterosexual, we tell them "stop fornicating and get married" then you can continue in your loving relationship...for the homosexual, we are rightfully telling them that their relationship must seize altogther...so let's be mindful that we are dealing with a different animal here and that simply telling "stop" is not going to be as effective....for some of them, they are being put to the true test of whether they will love God more than the person they are romantically involved.

I think if I tell you, CS, that you must leave Lady Coonskinner and serve the LORD that that decision is not going to be a breeze for you...you just might begin to wrestle with God for a moment....being mindful of this...let's realize the transformation some homosexuals must go through and let's work with them and counsel them...You know, CS...life is not as simple as you'd wish for it to be and nor is it as easy for others as it may be for you...let's realize everyone has their issues in life and so let's not box everyone into our neatly formed ideas....let's wake up and smell the coffee.

Coonskinner
03-13-2007, 08:07 AM
1- The phrase was a hypothetical and used as a reminder that our churches are to be cities of refuge highlighting the fact that homosexuals are shunned from society in ways that other sins are not...and so the doors of the church really need to be open to this group of people for where else will they find refuge if not the church...so calm down, cowboy.

2- Let's not go into an oblivion about what is happening with homosexuals...when dealing with some of them you are dealing with folks that are deeply in love and have a strong emotional bond with their partner (let's set aside the fact that this relationship is sinful...that is not the issue here). The fact remains that some of them are indeed emotionally attached in their relationship in the same manner that a heterosexual couple is attached. For the heterosexual, we tell them "stop fornicating and get married" then you can continue in your loving relationship...for the homosexual, we are rightfully telling them that their relationship must seize altogther...so let's be mindful that we are dealing with a different animal here and that simply telling "stop" is not going to be as effective....for some of them, they are being put to the true test of whether they will love God more than the person they are romantically involved.

I think if I tell you, CS, that you must leave Lady Coonskinner and serve the LORD that that decision is not going to be a breeze for you...you just might begin to wrestle with God for a moment....being mindful of this...let's realize the transformation some homosexuals must go through and let's work with them and counsel them...You know, CS...life is not as simple as you'd wish for it to be and nor is it as easy for others as it may be for you...let's realize everyone has their issues in life and so let's not box everyone into our neatly formed ideas....let's wake up and smell the coffee.

The bolded portion of your post reveals the incredibly warped view that keeps me from taking you seriously on this subject.

Annie
03-13-2007, 08:10 AM
I absolutely and completely reject the notion that gays "can't even make it through our church doors."

That is a slanderous and untrue statement, whether that was the intent or not.

There are no doubt some crude and prejudiced pastors and churches here and there who would not even attempt to minister to a homosexual who wanted to be saved, but I absolutely do not believe it is the norm.

The situation in this thread is an illustration of exactly what I feared it was.

Any homosexual that wants to repent and foprsake their sin is more than welcome where I pastor.

The deliverance "process" has a Scriptural name that I prefer to use--it is called "Repentance."

It includes forsaking the sin, not just saying "I'm sorry."

Far too many homosexuals want to find "acceptance" in the church, not repentance.

Those kind always wind up trying to recruit and spread that vile spirit around.

You shortchange the sinner and insult the Blood of Jesus when you promote this idea that homosexuality won't respond to plain and simple repentance and forsaking of the sin, and that it has to have some special ministry of deliverance and counselling to get its tentacles loosed.

The message to the gay is the same as to the adulterer--repent or perish.

I get vexed in my spirit when people indict God's Church, especially when it is from a position of supposed superior compassion and lofty spirituality.


Is this directed at me?

Coonskinner
03-13-2007, 08:11 AM
Is this directed at me?

No.

The dude that said gays couldn't even get in the doors of our churches.

I quoted his post in my reply.

Annie
03-13-2007, 08:14 AM
No.

The dude that said gays couldn't even get in the doors of our churches.

I quoted his post in my reply.

I know you quoted his post, but some 'key' words caught my attention, as I had used them last night when posting on this thread...

I was going to try to clear up any problem, if you were addressing me. *smile* I want no enemies on here...

J-Roc
03-13-2007, 08:14 AM
The bolded portion of your post reveals the incredibly warped view that keeps me from taking you seriously on this subject.


Well I guess that makes you shallow-minded.

Coonskinner
03-13-2007, 08:17 AM
I know you quoted his post, but some 'key' words caught my attention, as I had used them last night when posting on this thread...

I was going to try to clear up any problem, if you were addressing me. *smile* I want no enemies on here...

Sister,

I don't recall anything you wrote last night.

I felt that the intent of your post was just simply compassion--and that is honorable, even when it might be a trifle naive.

The post I quoted was from an individual who likes to critique the Church and the ministry, and considers himself imminently qualified.

That was what I objected to.

Coonskinner
03-13-2007, 08:18 AM
Well I guess that makes you shallow-minded.

Coming from you, Brother, I will take that as a compliment.:killinme

J-Roc
03-13-2007, 08:21 AM
No.

The dude that said gays couldn't even get in the doors of our churches.

I quoted his post in my reply.


You missed the point...the implication was that society already shuns them so the church must be a city of refuge for this group...and if they cant make into church where else can they turn...it's called a hypothetical.

SDG
03-13-2007, 08:23 AM
Sister,

I don't recall anything you wrote last night.

I felt that the intent of your post was just simply compassion--and that is honorable, even when it might be a trifle naive.

The post I quoted was from an individual who likes to critique the Church and the ministry, and considers himself imminently qualified.

That was what I objected to.


MC CS ... Where does one get imminently qualified to critique the Church and ministry .... apparently this must a secret lodge requiring your endorsement?

Admin
03-13-2007, 08:28 AM
Well I guess that makes you shallow-minded.

Please remember we need to stick to the issue, not the individual.

:ty

Coonskinner
03-13-2007, 08:38 AM
Please remember we need to stick to the issue, not the individual.

:ty

Please let the record show that I did not report nor complain about the post, nor was I bothered by it.

I am not questioning the action of admin, just wanting to clarify that it did not disturb me in the least, and that anything admin did, they did as a matter of principle and not at my request.

Nahum
03-13-2007, 08:40 AM
Please let the record show that I did not report nor complain about the post, nor was I bothered by it.

I am not questioning the action of admin, just wanting to clarify that it did not disturb me in the least, and that anything admin did, they did as a matter of principle and not at my request.

Tattletale :tease

lol

J-Roc
03-13-2007, 08:44 AM
Please let the record show that I did not report nor complain about the post, nor was I bothered by it.

I am not questioning the action of admin, just wanting to clarify that it did not disturb me in the least, and that anything admin did, they did as a matter of principle and not at my request.


You're a good sport! :highfive

SDG
03-13-2007, 08:44 AM
Please let the record show that I did not report nor complain about the post, nor was I bothered by it.

I am not questioning the action of admin, just wanting to clarify that it did not disturb me in the least, and that anything admin did, they did as a matter of principle and not at my request.

Truly you are the bigger MAN

SDG
03-13-2007, 08:47 AM
J-Roc ... next time state that his posts reveal shallow-mindedness

SDG
03-13-2007, 08:51 AM
I get vexed in my spirit when people indict God's Church, especially when it is from a position of supposed superior compassion and lofty spirituality.

Coming from you ... this is HILARIOUS!!!!

J-Roc
03-13-2007, 08:51 AM
You shortchange the sinner and insult the Blood of Jesus when you promote this idea that homosexuality won't respond to plain and simple repentance and forsaking of the sin, and that it has to have some special ministry of deliverance and counselling to get its tentacles loosed.


That's probably easy for you to say it is simple since you wish to put everything in your EZ box, for others the struggle is strong and it isn't simply a matter of an easy immediate withdrawal...


"Afterward, when Jesus was alone in the house with his disciples, they asked him, “Why couldn’t we cast out that evil spirit?”

Jesus replied, “This kind can be cast out only by prayer and fasting." (Mark 9)

SDG
03-13-2007, 08:53 AM
That's probably easy for you to say it is simple since you wish to put everything in your EZ box, for others the struggle is strong and it isn't simply a matter of an easy immediate withdrawal...


"Afterward, when Jesus was alone in the house with his disciples, they asked him, “Why couldn’t we cast out that evil spirit?”

Jesus replied, “This kind can be cast out only by prayer and fasting." (Mark 9)

Some admitted homophobes would'nt bother .... to go through all that trouble ...JMO

J-Roc
03-13-2007, 08:53 AM
J-Roc ... next time state that his posts reveal shallow-mindedness


Are you asking me to use CS's methods of vailing his comments through carefully worded insults so as to circumvent an Admin rebuke?

SDG
03-13-2007, 08:57 AM
Are you asking me to use CS's methods of vailing his comments through carefully worded insults so as to circumvent an Admin rebuke?

When in Rome ... do as the Romans do ...

crakjak
03-13-2007, 09:10 AM
Actually, that is the importance of the unwillingness to accept everything at face value. I know for a fact that there are posters that extend themselves beyond a prayer. After all faith without works is dead.

So I think it fair for posters to know the score before they invest into the life of someone who may or may not be what is posted. :cool:

Yeah, let's make sure someone is going to join us and embrace all that we believe before we lift a hand, Jesus was sure an example of that wasn't He??

"For even the heathen love those that love them......."

SDG
03-13-2007, 09:12 AM
Yeah, let's make sure someone is going to join us and embrace all that we believe before we lift a hand, Jesus was sure an example of that wasn't He??

"For even the heathen love those that love them......."

Sanctification ???? What's that????

J-Roc
03-13-2007, 09:15 AM
The post I quoted was from an individual who likes to critique the Church and the ministry, and considers himself imminently qualified.

That was what I objected to.


Oh, get over it cowboy and put down your pistol!! This vexing of yours is misdirected zeal....how about you imitate Paul and take on his attitude on the matter of criticism...


"We want to avoid any criticism of the way we administer this liberal gift. For we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of men." (2 Corinthians)

Coonskinner
03-13-2007, 09:42 AM
Oh, get over it cowboy and put down your pistol!! This vexing of yours is misdirected zeal....how about you imitate Paul and take on his attitude on the matter of criticism...


"We want to avoid any criticism of the way we administer this liberal gift. For we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of men." (2 Corinthians)

Nice try.

Thanks for playing...no winner this time.:)

Coonskinner
03-13-2007, 09:43 AM
Are you asking me to use CS's methods of vailing his comments through carefully worded insults so as to circumvent an Admin rebuke?

If you are tring to tweak me, it is all to no aveil.;)

J-Roc
03-13-2007, 09:51 AM
If you are tring to tweak me, it is all to no aveil.;)


That's funny...it reminds me of the boxer who gets a painful blow and then smiles at his opponent to try to communicate that the blow did not hurt....when the boxer does this, he is actually revealing that the punch really did have affect and that it was to "much avail".... :tease :killinme

J-Roc
03-13-2007, 09:58 AM
Nice try.

Thanks for playing...no winner this time.:)


Ahh...so Coon resorts to the ol' 'nolo contendere' plea...how convenient.

One would hope that when a defendant presents this plea he at least washes up and where's a clean suit. :tease

mizpeh
03-13-2007, 09:59 AM
That's probably easy for you to say it is simple since you wish to put everything in your EZ box, for others the struggle is strong and it isn't simply a matter of an easy immediate withdrawal...


"Afterward, when Jesus was alone in the house with his disciples, they asked him, “Why couldn’t we cast out that evil spirit?”

Jesus replied, “This kind can be cast out only by prayer and fasting." (Mark 9)

I have to agree with CS. Chosen was deceitfull in his post. He considers himself gay and in a right relationship with Jesus. This is a contradiction and he has shown disrespect to those in this forum by lying to us

The church I attend would welcome a person with AIDs who repented of their sin of homosexuality. Why does this man condemn ALL Apostolic churches? Chosen has done damage to his cause to try to rally support for the gay AIDS community.

Coonskinner
03-13-2007, 09:59 AM
That's funny...it reminds me of the boxer who gets a painful blow and then smiles at his opponent to try to communicate that the blow did not hurt....when the boxer does this, he is actually revealing that the punch really did have affect and that it was to "much avail".... :tease :killinme

Punch?

Try a gnat bite.

Felicity
03-13-2007, 10:00 AM
LOL! Guys! :rolleyes:

:)

SDG
03-13-2007, 10:00 AM
Ahh...so Coon resorts to the ol' 'nolo contendere' plea...how convenient.

One would hope that when a defendant presents this plea he at least washes up and where's a clean suit. :tease

The jury is still out .....

SDG
03-13-2007, 10:05 AM
Punch?

Try a gnat bite.

An insect bite has the same effect ...

http://respiracreative.com/sting.jpg

Coonskinner
03-13-2007, 10:10 AM
You guys are so funny--you think you are real heavyweights...I'm not allergic to gnatbites. :)

SDG
03-13-2007, 10:11 AM
You guys are so funny--you think you are real heavyweights...I'm not allergic to gnatbites. :)

Well ... somebody has to police the TRUTH POLICE :tease :tease :tease

Esther
03-13-2007, 10:13 AM
I have to agree with CS. Chosen was deceitfull in his post. He considers himself gay and in a right relationship with Jesus. This is a contradiction and he has shown disrespect to those in this forum by lying to us

The church I attend would welcome a person with AIDs who repented of their sin of homosexuality. Why does this man condemn ALL Apostolic churches? Chosen has done damage to his cause to try to rally support for the gay AIDS community.

I must have missed that post???

J-Roc
03-13-2007, 10:14 AM
I have to agree with CS. Chosen was deceitfull in his post. He considers himself gay and in a right relationship with Jesus. This is a contradiction and he has shown disrespect to those in this forum by lying to us

The church I attend would welcome a person with AIDs who repented of their sin of homosexuality. Why does this man condemn ALL Apostolic churches? Chosen has done damage to his cause to try to rally support for the gay AIDS community.


My comments are far removed from CBO's specific situation as I do not know him nor his true motives...I am simply making comments that are addressing this group as a whole and how we can approach them locally.

(there are obvious inconsistencies in his comments, but the crux of the thread had to do with reaching this group with the gospel and I am not going to focus on CBO as much as I am going to focus on how we approach this group...he apparently is not a recent convert and knows enough that if he really wants help he can go to the person he respects most, namely Bishop Kilgore).

SDG
03-13-2007, 10:17 AM
I have to agree with CS. Chosen was deceitfull in his post. He considers himself gay and in a right relationship with Jesus. This is a contradiction and he has shown disrespect to those in this forum by lying to us

The church I attend would welcome a person with AIDs who repented of their sin of homosexuality. Why does this man condemn ALL Apostolic churches? Chosen has done damage to his cause to try to rally support for the gay AIDS community.

I must have missed that post???

I must've missed that one also ...

Newman
03-13-2007, 10:18 AM
Yeah, let's make sure someone is going to join us and embrace all that we believe before we lift a hand, Jesus was sure an example of that wasn't He??

"For even the heathen love those that love them......."

Are you serious? Did you read the whole thread? :dunno

Chosen wanted to deceive us about what he believed while claiming to have a relationship with God. A most deadly combination for an unsuspecting poster who might have sought to talk to him about a struggle they were having.

Jesus was much more critical of those claiming religion than those claiming none.

Paul made it very clear that there was to be a SEPARATION from a fornicator who claimed brotherhood status. (And for the record; claiming a relationship with God is akin to claiming to be a brother).

9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat (1 Cor 5:10-11).

Love speaks truth not platitudes. See 2 Corinthians 7:8-10. :cool:

Thad
03-13-2007, 10:19 AM
THIS



IS



GREAT ! ! ! ! !

SDG
03-13-2007, 10:21 AM
Well .. Thad ... I'm glad you're enjoying it ... now take a seat son ... you might hurt yourself.

SDG
03-13-2007, 10:27 AM
Are you serious? Did you read the whole thread? :dunno


Jesus was much more critical of those claiming religion than those claiming none.



Yep ... see the Pharisee and the Publican, Newman.

Newman
03-13-2007, 10:36 AM
Yep ... see the Pharisee and the Publican, Newman.

Hmm... I fear for you Daniel when you can't make distinctions between publicans and Pharisees and unrepentant homosexuals who deceitfully draw a web...

Got to run! :bliss

Coonskinner
03-13-2007, 10:36 AM
Are you serious? Did you read the whole thread? :dunno

Chosen wanted to deceive us about what he believed while claiming to have a relationship with God. A most deadly combination for an unsuspecting poster who might have sought to talk to him about a struggle they were having.

Jesus was much more critical of those claiming religion than those claiming none.

Paul made it very clear that there was to be a SEPARATION from a fornicator who claimed brotherhood status. (And for the record; claiming a relationship with God is akin to claiming to be a brother).

9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat (1 Cor 5:10-11).

Love speaks truth not platitudes. See 2 Corinthians 7:8-10. :cool:

Thank you, Sister, for yet another home run.

This is exactly what my problem with the whole deal.

Thad
03-13-2007, 10:37 AM
Hmm... I fear for you Daniel when you can't make distinctions between publicans and Pharisees and unrepentant homosexuals who deceitfully draw a web...

Got to run! :bliss



Daniel ????

Coonskinner
03-13-2007, 10:37 AM
Yep ... see the Pharisee and the Publican, Newman.

This has nothing to do with anything on this thread.

SDG
03-13-2007, 10:37 AM
Hmm... I fear for you Daniel when you can't make distinctions between publicans and Pharisees and unrepentant homosexuals who deceitfully draw a web...

Got to run! :bliss

I fear for those who think they can peek into men's hearts and discern where they stand today .... there is a word for that ..... hmmm ......

SDG
03-13-2007, 10:38 AM
This has nothing to do with anything on this thread.

If thou sayest ....:heeheehee

Coonskinner
03-13-2007, 10:39 AM
I fear for those who think they can peek into men's hearts and discern where they stand today .... there is a word for that ..... hmmm ......


We do know how to read, Dan.

SDG
03-13-2007, 10:40 AM
We do know how to read, Dan.

Curious ... that not everyone interpreted it the same way ... hun???

mizpeh
03-13-2007, 10:48 AM
I must have missed that post???

It is a link that was posted by Burn... can't remember the poster's complete name when He/She looked up Chosen's profile and checked it on the net.

SDG
03-13-2007, 10:50 AM
It is a link that was posted by Burn... can't remember the poster's complete name when He/She looked up Chosen's profile and checked it on the net.

read it ..... It was not an attack on All Apostolic churches .... as you stated.

mizpeh
03-13-2007, 10:53 AM
read it ..... It was not an attack on All Apostolic churches .... as you stated.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=37304&postcount=117

Then read post 121.

The guy says he is gay. He lied to us. If he is gay then he is not right with Jesus. He is trying to garner sympathy dishonestly. If he had been truthful it would help his cause.


and he has been disrespectful to the poster on this forum

Then why isn't he going to an Apostolic church?

SDG
03-13-2007, 10:56 AM
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=37304&postcount=117

Then read post 121.

The guy says he is gay. He lied to us. If he is gay then he is not right with Jesus. He is trying to garner sympathy dishonestly. If he had been truthful it would help his cause.


and he has been disrespectful to the poster on this forum

Then why isn't he going to an Apostolic church?

He has also stated it is a sin .... provided the links, he also stated that gay ministers provide an obstacle to ministering to AIDs

and

He stated why he is not attending a church in the Dear Rhoni thread.

mizpeh
03-13-2007, 11:09 AM
He has also stated it is a sin .... provided the links, he also stated that gay ministers provide an obstacle to ministering to AIDs

and

He stated why he is not attending a church in the Dear Rhoni thread.

I've read all the links in this thread. Doesn't he live in Texas? Houston? Isn't there an apostolic church on every corner? he isn't going to church because he has not repented of his sin of homosexuallity.

I live in Maine. There may be an apostolic church every 50-100 miles.

He says he is gay on that link given by burnedtoo. Don't you see that he is being hypocritical to say gay ministers provide an obstacle when he is in fact a gay minister.

IMO, he has shot himself in the foot. I pray he does get right with the Lord and angels take him rather than demons.

burnedtoo
03-13-2007, 11:15 AM
Daniel, you must not be reading too well what has been shared.

Sure, one can say they condemn homosexuality. But it doesn't necessarily mean they are truly condemning it as would be seen by the Bible and Christians. If it was truly condemned, why just months ago would the poster state they were a gay minister? It sure doesn't sound like a condemnation of homosexuality, does it? Sounds very similar to what others have encountered online. Preach "love" and forget that the act is a sin. That's basically what that post was saying.

Some are completely missing the point, perhaps deliberately so they can go after others as if they are judging and condemning when they are not?

If this board allowed someone to portray themselves as having a ministry to gays, and that ministry actually promoted one on one homosexual relationships, what would you then think if some readers or members who were struggling with homosexual thoughts contacted this person privately and were being told that the Bible doesn't teach against it and that a one on one relationship was okay? And then they took that step into a gay relationship? And all the while you are shouting pharisees! And the gay ministry is leading people into a sinful lifestyle.

Wake up! Nowhere on this board did this man come clean about what he considered a homosexual lifestyle. He admitted elsewhere to being a gay minister. Daniel, that is not judging or condemning- that is showing the deceipt with which one posted.

If you want people to have free reign here to promote the liefstyle, while appearing to be against it, then something is very, very wrong. Stop pouncing on Coonskinner and Newman and stop and truly see just what happened here. No one stated anything about turning this individual away. No one said they wouldn't pray for him or have compassion. But you cannot help someone if they don't see what they are involved in is sinful. Until they can do that, all you can do is pray....and not allow their beliefs to influence unsuspecting others.

And the person was online when I shared the AIM post. Funny how they disappeared afterward. If they were on the up and up, they would have immediately posted to clear up any misconception. I know I would have if someone said I said I was a gay minister when I'd supposedly left that lifestyle.

Think about it, brother, and stop posting simply to stir things up. Think. read. His own words outed him.

SDG
03-13-2007, 11:19 AM
Burnedtoo or whoever you really are ....

Whether his veracity is in question or not .... this was not the crux of his original thread ... no validatons or calls for acceptance were made .... simply a request to help the least among us ... we can continue this Inquisition or state what we already know about what the Bible says about homosexuality .... My take is that the same book tells to go out into the highways and biways ..... I know for a fact that there is homophobia in some circles and has tempered those who will not even minister to them in a loving and responsible way....

SDG
03-13-2007, 11:23 AM
J-Roc... said it best ....

Well if we are suckered into showing compassion toward those that are disenfranchised by society and prompted to go help those souls....this is great gain. Even if some do not believe this poster, a prompt to reach out to those with AIDS is not unworthy of attention. If anyone has a hard time believing this thread, then see it as a parable....there are still things to learn from it, regardless of its veracity.

burnedtoo
03-13-2007, 11:23 AM
he also stated that gay ministers provide an obstacle to ministering to AIDs

Read closer, Daniel.

Through my ministry, I've worked side by side with many people including gay ministers. Many who meant well by devoting their time to AIDS suffers, but became an obstacle to their salvation. Without the power of the Holy Ghost and the authority of Jesus' name the devils won't leave those on their death beds. He almost has them for eternity.

The bolded area is a key. He appears to be stating that gay minsiters who do not have the Holy Spirit and authority of Jesus' name are an obstacle- not that they were gay.

Do you not know of all the gay Pentecostal and even Oneness Penetcostal (run by former UPC ministers) churches?

You obviously haven't dealt with deception in this area. If you would stop and take some time, you could learn something from the posters who are pointing out the deception and sharing things they experienced.

I am also concerned of the AOL statement about all the gay people in the churches that are ministering. Could this man have been deceptive with Pastor Kilgore while he was there and was he actually operating a pro-homosexual lifesyle while appearing to be against it? He said he's been a gay minister for awhile.

burnedtoo
03-13-2007, 11:25 AM
simply a request to help the least among us ... we can continue this Inquisition or state what we already know about what the Bible says about homosexuality ....

You miss the point, Daniel. You cannot help someone when they don't believe what they're involved in to be wrong. You cannot be delivered from sin when you won't recognize it to be sin. You simply tell everyone they should preach love......

SDG
03-13-2007, 11:26 AM
Read closer, Daniel.



The bolded area is a key. He appears to be stating that gay minsiters who do not have the Holy Spirit and authority of Jesus' name are an obstacle- not that they were gay.

Do you not know of all the gay Pentecostal and even Oneness Penetcostal (run by former UPC ministers) churches?

You obviously haven't dealt with deception in this area. If you would stop and take some time, you could learn something from the posters who are pointing out the deception and sharing things they experienced.

I am also concerned of the AOL statement about all the gay people in the churches that are ministering. Could this man have been deceptive with Pastor Kilgore while he was there and was he actually operating a pro-homosexual lifesyle while appearing to be against it? He said he's been a gay minister for awhile.


You are obviously well-informed and are the crusader of all truth ....

SDG
03-13-2007, 11:28 AM
You miss the point, Daniel. You cannot help someone when they don't believe what they're involved in to be wrong. You cannot be delivered from sin when you won't recognize it to be sin. You simply tell everyone they should preach love......

You miss the point ... he did not ASK FOR HELP FOR HIMSELF ... but for all those ... gay and non-gay suffering from AIDS .. whether some wanted to delve deeper and get out the dirty secrets is another story entirely

burnedtoo
03-13-2007, 11:33 AM
You are not taking the time to understand, Daniel. He said he ministers in this area. There could be readers/members here who are also suffering with AIDS or who may be gay. Should they then be going to counsel with one who is hiding they are yet gay, thus encouraging one in the lifestyle? Or should the people be warned that what is being written isn't all that is believed?

SDG
03-13-2007, 11:35 AM
You are not taking the time to understand, Daniel. He said he ministers in this area. There could be readers/members here who are also suffering with AIDS or who may be gay. Should they then be going to counsel with one who is hiding they are yet gay, thus encouraging one in the lifestyle? Or should the people be warned that what is being written isn't all that is believed?


Sad .. you still are trying to delve deeper in discrediting him ... all I see is speculation .....and perhaps a refusal to take his advice and go out minister to those dying of sure death.

Theresa
03-13-2007, 11:37 AM
You miss the point ... he did not ASK FOR HELP FOR HIMSELF ... but for all those ... gay and non-gay suffering from AIDS .. whether some wanted to delve deeper and get out the dirty secrets is another story entirely

no, he wants validation

SDG
03-13-2007, 11:38 AM
no, he wants validation

An opinion processed and archived. I think all us when we post are seeking some level of validation ... but again ... one can only decipher what he has requested by the request he made.

Coonskinner
03-13-2007, 11:43 AM
Burned,

You are making a valiant attempt to get some to see what they refuse to look at.

There is a bigger agenda going down here than just this man.

This is yet another vehicle to try and discredit and bring contempt on anyone whom the enlightened deem less compassionate and loving than themselves.

It is ultimately clear to any reader that this poster is less than honest. J-Roc has even admitted that there "inconsistencies."

But that doesn't matter.

Nothing matters, except portraying anyone who takes a solid stand for Truth and righteousness as a mean-spirited neanderthal.

They will side in with anyone, even a homosexual, in order to try and make that point.

RevDWW
03-13-2007, 11:43 AM
Let's cut to the chase here:
Not a one of us knows what is in the heart of Chosenbyone.

We do not know if he is repentant or not.

We do know he states he has AIDS as a consequence of sin. The wages of sin is death, but the Gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ.

We know all who are sick are sick because death entered the world by Adam.

We know who can heal all who are sick, both physically and spiritually, as life
entered the world by Jesus Christ.

Chosenbyone needs our prayers, whether he is lying or not, sinning or not. Those that are hurting, sick, and/or dieing need our prayers and His touch.
Compassion should be the rule of the day, even for those that are reaping what they have sown. Let us speak the truth in love so that all will see Jesus. Speaking the truth in love does not excuse nor condone sin, but seeks to bring a sinner to repentance. Let the sinner repent and let God judge the hearts of men.

burnedtoo
03-13-2007, 11:44 AM
Daniel, one day perhaps you will stop and see. When you are burned as others have been, it will be an eye opener to the much deception found in this area of ministry. Keep on with the quick quips and cuts on people and you will not learn anything. Through all your posting you've not at all dealt with my main questions of people possibly going to this person for help and being told it's not sinful. That could have been a definite problem area here. I know as I've seen it happen elsewhere.

SDG
03-13-2007, 11:45 AM
Burned,

You are making a valiant attempt to get some to see what they refuse to look at.

There is a bigger agenda going down here than just this man.

This is yet another vehicle to try and discredit and bring contempt on anyone whom the enlightened deem less compassionate and loving than themselves.

It is ultimately clear to any reader that this poster is less than honest. J-Roc has even admitted that there "inconsistencies."

But that doesn't matter.

Nothing matters, except portraying anyone who takes a solid stand for Truth and righteousness as a mean-spirited neanderthal.

They will side in with anyone, even a homosexual, in order to try and make that point.

Man ... CS ... this is really getting to you ... huh??? I love conspiracy theories.

SDG
03-13-2007, 11:46 AM
Let's cut to the chase here:
Not a one of us knows what is in the heart of Chosenbyone.

We do not know if he is repentant or not.

We do know he states he has AIDS as a consequence of sin. The wages of sin is death, but the Gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ.

We know all who are sick are sick because death entered the world by Adam.

We know who can heal all who are sick, both physically and spiritually, as life
entered the world by Jesus Christ.

Chosenbyone needs our prayers, whether he is lying or not, sinning or not. Those that are hurting, sick, and/or dieing need our prayers and His touch.
Compassion should be the rule of the day, even for those that are reaping what they have sown. Let us speak the truth in love so that all will see Jesus. Speaking the truth in love does not excuse nor condone sin, but seeks to bring a sinner to repentance. Let the sinner repent and let God judge the hearts of men.

Thank you.

SDG
03-13-2007, 11:47 AM
Daniel, one day perhaps you will stop and see. When you are burned as others have been, it will be an eye opener to the much deception found in this area of ministry. Keep on with the quick quips and cuts on people and you will not learn anything. Through all your posting you've not at all dealt with my main questions of people possibly going to this person for help and being told it's not sinful. That could have been a definite problem area here. I know as I've seen it happen elsewhere.

See RevDWW words ... stop being the crusader ... and reflect.

burnedtoo
03-13-2007, 11:51 AM
See RevDWW words ... stop being the crusader ... and reflect.


I have no problem with his words. You, however, need to learn about deception in this area. And you have yet ignored important questions.

It appears you don't want to hear, and so I will respond no further to you on this matter. Those of us concerned with the post were not withholding prayer, compassion, or ministering to those in need. But you can continue to believe otherwise, it won't change what is true.

Coonskinner
03-13-2007, 11:51 AM
Man ... CS ... this is really getting to you ... huh??? I love conspiracy theories.

LOL!

You flatter yourself more than most.

This is in no way getting to me. I find it borderline amusing.

You are not original; I have run into your kind of folks a lot, and you aren't even the smoothest I have encountered.

SDG
03-13-2007, 11:52 AM
LOL!

You flatter yourself more than most.

This is in no way getting to me. I find it borderline amusing.

You are not original; I have run into your kind of folks a lot, and you aren't even the smoothest I have encountered.

You are a dime a dozen also ... my mis-informed and pious friend

SDG
03-13-2007, 11:54 AM
I have no problem with his words. You, however, need to learn about deception in this area. And you have yet ignored important questions.

It appears you don't want to hear, and so I will respond no further to you on this matter. Those of us concerned with the post were not withholding prayer, compassion, or ministering to those in need. But you can continue to believe otherwise, it won't change what is true.

Questions ... what questions ... you mean you're rhetorical questions .... Burnedtoo be concerned ... and continue not to withhold

RevDWW
03-13-2007, 11:58 AM
I have no problem with his words. You, however, need to learn about deception in this area. And you have yet ignored important questions.

It appears you don't want to hear, and so I will respond no further to you on this matter. Those of us concerned with the post were not withholding prayer, compassion, or ministering to those in need. But you can continue to believe otherwise, it won't change what is true.

I would be genuinely surprised if this were not true. Just because one is cautious or concerned there might be a hidden agenda does not make them bad or less compassionate.

Jesus forgave but He also admonished to "go and sin no more".

Ferd
03-13-2007, 12:01 PM
I would be genuinely surprised if this were not true. Just because one is cautious or concerned there might be a hidden agenda does not make them bad or less compassionate.

Jesus forgave but He also admonished to "go and sin no more".

everybody likes part one...part two? not so much....as witnessed by this thread.

RevDWW
03-13-2007, 12:06 PM
everybody likes part one...part two? not so much....as witnessed by this thread.

Hey, if you continue in your sins you will surely die. Sad but true!
The GOOD NEWS is that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us, not the we could be forgiven and continue in sin, but that we could have a new start.

That new creature in Christ Jesus thing needs a second and third look. :heeheehee

SDG
03-13-2007, 12:07 PM
Hey, if you continue in your sins you will surely die. Sad but true!
The good news is that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us, not the we could be forgiven and continue in sin, but that we could have a new start.

That new creature in Christ Jesus thing needs a second and third look. :heeheehee

This is GOOD NEWS.

RevDWW
03-13-2007, 12:08 PM
This is GOOD NEWS.

I edited it just for you. :tease

Esther
03-13-2007, 12:33 PM
Read closer, Daniel.



The bolded area is a key. He appears to be stating that gay minsiters who do not have the Holy Spirit and authority of Jesus' name are an obstacle- not that they were gay.

I didn't get that from your quote as all.

Do you not know of all the gay Pentecostal and even Oneness Penetcostal (run by former UPC ministers) churches?

You obviously haven't dealt with deception in this area. If you would stop and take some time, you could learn something from the posters who are pointing out the deception and sharing things they experienced.

I am also concerned of the AOL statement about all the gay people in the churches that are ministering. Could this man have been deceptive with Pastor Kilgore while he was there and was he actually operating a pro-homosexual lifesyle while appearing to be against it? He said he's been a gay minister for awhile.

Where did he say this? Not in the above post you quoted.

burnedtoo
03-13-2007, 12:37 PM
Where did he say this? Not in the above post you quoted.

In his AOL post I quoted several pages back:

What you do in the dark while come to the light. It's ironic that the ones who take such a strong stance on an issue are the ones who hide and do the very things that they oppose. I'm a gay christian man and I've dealt with many pastors and evangelists who spewed their hatred upon gays and lesbians. After years of my involvement in the ministry, I can you that many, many homosexuals are in ministry in some of the most conservative churches. It's time in America to focus on what God really is and that is love. Shame on those who don't demonstrate the very priniciple of love thy neighbor. All those wolves in sheeps' clothing while be exposed! Beware Jerry Falwell and all you other hateful ministers of another god!
Comment from chooselove40 - 11/6/06 7:51 PM

Found here at: http://journals.aol.com/thefeedblog/...rom-grace/2415

Esther
03-13-2007, 12:38 PM
In his AOL post I quoted several pages back:



Found here at: http://journals.aol.com/thefeedblog/...rom-grace/2415

Thank you I wondered where everyone was getting that.

HeavenlyOne
03-13-2007, 12:56 PM
I have to agree with CS. Chosen was deceitfull in his post. He considers himself gay and in a right relationship with Jesus. This is a contradiction and he has shown disrespect to those in this forum by lying to us

The church I attend would welcome a person with AIDs who repented of their sin of homosexuality. Why does this man condemn ALL Apostolic churches? Chosen has done damage to his cause to try to rally support for the gay AIDS community.

And here we see the crux of the matter that some seem to be ignoring.

CS, Newman, and a few others, including myself.......you were right on.

I hope this guy comes to find true repentance.