Should we follow status quo?

[Melody]

If that were the case there would have never been the birth of the UPCI as we now know it.

"The Assemblies of God experienced a major schism early in their history when they adopted the doctrine of the Trinity at their Fourth General Council in October 1916 in St. Louis. Those that withdrew from the fellowship were known as "Oneness Pentecostals," who believed in baptizing "in the name of Jesus Christ" and not "in the name of The Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost/Spirit." This schism caused the loss of approximately one-fourth of recognized A/G ministers, including all ministers in the state of Louisiana. Oneness ministers met in Eureka Springs, Arkansas, and on January 2, 1917, they formed their own fellowship. Two "Oneness" organizations were birthed out of this split. The Pentecostal Assemblies Of The World (PAW) and a group which later became known as the United Pentecostal Church International"

The bible is full of times when God's people were steered back to a more intimate relationship with him. Funny how that usually did involve idols.

[CC1]

Old time Oneness Pentecostals have to be somewhat torn at this question. On the one hand your post is correct that without "change" some good things would never happen.

On the other hand maintaining Old Time Pentecosts extra biblical aspects is based on the concept that you can never change anything that has gone before.

If a "standard" does not make sense it does not matter because the Pentecostal Pioneer Father's said it was to be so it is. Maintaining the "status quo" is a major element of old time Pentecost.

[StMark]

CC1,

There is a lot that the Old Timers use to preach against that so called Cons do not live up to today.Old Timers wouldn't be caught going on vacation to Las vegas where there's porn being handed out on every corner. OTP preachers would not drive expensive cars and taking lavish vacations.I could go on but you get the idea.
OTPs use to preach against a lot of stuff that we who are still considered "traditional" no longer adhere to.If we are honest we would admit it.
I remember quite a few things they use to preach against that I have not heard in years.

[CC1]

CC1,

There is a lot that the Old Timers use to preach against that so called Cons do not live up to today.Old Timers wouldn't be caught going on vacation to Las vegas where there's porn being handed out on every corner. OTP preachers would not be driving $100,000 cars and taking lavish month long Euorpean vacations.I could go on but you get the idea.
OTPs use to preach against a lot of stuff that we who are still considered "traditional" no longer adhere to.If we are honest we would admit that but many refuse to. I don't know why they wont but they just wont.
I'm not bashing conservatives - just asking for honesty even if it's a little painful. I remember quite a few things they use to preach against that I have not heard in years.

I know my conservative UPC pastor I grew up with would not have been caught dead with that XM satellite radio that one of my AMF friends has in his car!!! LOL!!!! (my pastor had the radio in his car tuned to the only gospel station in the area and then took the knobs off the tuner so it could not be changed)

[StMark]

I know my conservative UPC pastor I grew up with would not have been caught dead with that XM satellite radio that one of my AMF friends has in his car!!! LOL!!!! (my pastor had the radio in his car tuned to the only gospel station in the area and then took the knobs off the tuner so it could not be changed)

O come on now! you aren't serious??

So, if you have Xm, you can listen to fox and cnn ??

[CC1]

I know my conservative UPC pastor I grew up with would not have been caught dead with that XM satellite radio that one of my AMF friends has in his car!!! LOL!!!! (my pastor had the radio in his car tuned to the only gospel station in the area and then took the knobs off the tuner so it could not be changed)

O come on now! you aren't serious??

So, if you have Xm, you can listen to fox and cnn ??

Yup. A lot of people I know including preachers of all stripes have XM or Sirious satellite radio in their cars.

If you travel a lot it is great because they have the news channels, old time radio shows, channels dedicated to any kind of music imaginable.

Of course just like TV they also have profane channels! I had it in my rental car a couple of times over the past year and stumbled across R and X rated comedy channels that turned my ears red before I could change the channel.

I actually have had an XM Roady XT receiver in my dresser for a year now I have not gotten around to getting installed.

Oh, and yes I am not kidding about the pastor taking the knobs off the car radio tuner. Of course his daughter and I found pliers and kept them handy so we could change it to the rock and roll stations!

[RandyWayne]

Yup. A lot of people I know including preachers of all stripes have XM or Sirious satellite radio in their cars.

If you travel a lot it is great because they have the news channels, old time radio shows, channels dedicated to any kind of music imaginable.

Of course just like TV they also have profane channels! I had it in my rental car a couple of times over the past year and stumbled across R and X rated comedy channels that turned my ears red before I could change the channel.

I actually have had an XM Roady XT receiver in my dresser for a year now I have not gotten around to getting installed.

Oh, and yes I am not kidding about the pastor taking the knobs off the car radio tuner. Of course his daughter and I found pliers and kept them handy so we could change it to the rock and roll stations!

What about when he drove out of range and wanted to listen to another station?

This brings back memories because we had someone come over to our house and "fix" our tuner in our set so we could only watch channel 3. Meaning, we could plug in a video cassette player and nothing else.
I remember those days as I sit back and watch our 200 channels (of mostly nothing) on Dish Network.

[George]

CC1,

There is a lot that the Old Timers use to preach against that so called Cons do not live up to today.Old Timers wouldn't be caught going on vacation to Las vegas where there's porn being handed out on every corner. OTP preachers would not drive expensive cars and taking lavish vacations.I could go on but you get the idea.
OTPs use to preach against a lot of stuff that we who are still considered "traditional" no longer adhere to.If we are honest we would admit it.
I remember quite a few things they use to preach against that I have not heard in years.

and their wives couldn't shave their legs

[Melody]

I was just curious. Such comments have been made to suggest that the disunity is coming from "Tulsa"
I have yet to see who from Tulsa have written one letter or said anything publically to tear to shreds men with whom they disagree. But I've read letter after letter here attacking the character of good Godly men everyone admired until this situation occurred, but prophets of old weren't especially liked either when they disagreed.
Anyone hear Kenneth Haney's message at GC? I saw his face when he warned to brethren to be careful of using strange methods? Maybe we could get a transcript of the message?
Fundamental Doctrine: ........ We shall endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit until we all come into the unity of the faith, at the same time admonishing all brethren that they shall not contend for their different views to the disunity of the body.

So it was a known fact that if this passed it would cause disunity?

[Steve Epley]

I was just curious. Such comments have been made to suggest that the disunity is coming from "Tulsa"
I have yet to see who from Tulsa have written one letter or said anything publically to tear to shreds men with whom they disagree. But I've read letter after letter here attacking the character of good Godly men everyone admired until this situation occurred, but prophets of old weren't especially liked either when they disagreed.
Anyone hear Kenneth Haney's message at GC? I saw his face when he warned to brethren to be careful of using strange methods? Maybe we could get a transcript of the message?
Fundamental Doctrine: ........ We shall endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit until we all come into the unity of the faith, at the same time admonishing all brethren that they shall not contend for their different views to the disunity of the body.

So it was a known fact that if this passed it would cause disunity?

There is a provoking thought.

[Ron]

CC1,

There is a lot that the Old Timers use to preach against that so called Cons do not live up to today.Old Timers wouldn't be caught going on vacation to Las vegas where there's porn being handed out on every corner. OTP preachers would not drive expensive cars and taking lavish vacations.I could go on but you get the idea.
OTPs use to preach against a lot of stuff that we who are still considered "traditional" no longer adhere to.If we are honest we would admit it.
I remember quite a few things they use to preach against that I have not heard in years.

That is something to ponder on right there.

[stmatthew]

and their wives couldn't shave their legs

The very reason my dad would not join the UPC in the early 70's.

[StMark]

That is something to ponder on right there.



shall i start making a list ??

[LadyChocolate]

and their wives couldn't shave their legs

:crazy:vomit:eeeew

[ChicagoPastor]

I was just curious. Such comments have been made to suggest that the disunity is coming from "Tulsa"
I have yet to see who from Tulsa have written one letter or said anything publically to tear to shreds men with whom they disagree. But I've read letter after letter here attacking the character of good Godly men everyone admired until this situation occurred, but prophets of old weren't especially liked either when they disagreed.
Anyone hear Kenneth Haney's message at GC? I saw his face when he warned to brethren to be careful of using strange methods? Maybe we could get a transcript of the message?
Fundamental Doctrine: ........ We shall endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit until we all come into the unity of the faith, at the same time admonishing all brethren that they shall not contend for their different views to the disunity of the body.

So it was a known fact that if this passed it would cause disunity?

OK......so they didn't write any letters....but they've preached sermons, they've had 'secret meetings', they used the UPC mailout list to invite all the UPC ministers to join their new organization....shall I continue??? Don't act like they're so innocent. They are divisionists.

[Melody]

hmmm, secret meetings, I hadn't seen that before. I know there was great concern about the direction of the movement, I know I have concerns with the direction. I heard the message Bro Haney preached, he warned the brethren seeking strange ways to reach the lost, filling pulpits with men who did not hold this gospel dear. Did you know that this young lady, http://www.prphotos.com/store/category.cgi?category=search&query=%5Ephotowizard.sql&q2=Kathleen%20Herles

http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4DMUS_enUS222US229&q=kathleen+herles&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi&oi=property_suggestions&resnum=0&ct=property-revision&cd=1

was heralded at youth congress as someone our young ladies would want to pattern their lives after?

Lot moving toward the well watered plains wasn't sin. But be careful where you pitch your tent, your family might not make it out of sodam?

[CC1]

The very reason my dad would not join the UPC in the early 70's.

Splain.

[Neck]

If that were the case there would have never been the birth of the UPCI as we now know it.

"The Assemblies of God experienced a major schism early in their history when they adopted the doctrine of the Trinity at their Fourth General Council in October 1916 in St. Louis. Those that withdrew from the fellowship were known as "Oneness Pentecostals," who believed in baptizing "in the name of Jesus Christ" and not "in the name of The Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost/Spirit." This schism caused the loss of approximately one-fourth of recognized A/G ministers, including all ministers in the state of Louisiana. Oneness ministers met in Eureka Springs, Arkansas, and on January 2, 1917, they formed their own fellowship. Two "Oneness" organizations were birthed out of this split. The Pentecostal Assemblies Of The World (PAW) and a group which later became known as the United Pentecostal Church International"

The bible is full of times when God's people were steered back to a more intimate relationship with him. Funny how that usually did involve idols.

I want to live a radical life for Jesus. One with respect to my heritage of the UPCI.

Status quo no!

I want to live in hands of God.

Not the cluches of man.

That is not a reference to rebellion or warn out standards...

[Ron]

shall i start making a list ??

Maybe someday.

Start a thread on that subject, I am sure it would be interesting!

[Sunni]

they've had 'secret meetings',

That is soo funny! Secret Meetings!

Ummm...I am sure they have had meeetings...they have been planning a conference....

[Wink]

and their wives couldn't shave their legs

One of us will shave!!!!!!....either my wife or me

[Sister Alvear]

[QUOTE=StMark;366605]CC1,

There is a lot that the Old Timers use to preach against that so called Cons do not live up to today.Old Timers wouldn't be caught going on vacation to Las vegas where there's porn being handed out on every corner. OTP preachers would not drive expensive cars and taking lavish vacations.I could go on but you get the idea.
OTPs use to preach against a lot of stuff that we who are still considered "traditional" no longer adhere to.If we are honest we would admit it.
I remember quite a few things they use to preach against that I have not heard in years.[/QUOhit the nail on the head...

[Sister Alvear]

If I were UPCI and felt I could not go along with the program I would just get out...

[Sister Alvear]

Some things people preached against are not even around any more and some things they preached we had to do to be saved are also not around any more...
So it would be best to go back and study the book and find out what sin really is.

[pelathais]

CC1,

There is a lot that the Old Timers use to preach against that so called Cons do not live up to today.Old Timers wouldn't be caught going on vacation to Las vegas where there's porn being handed out on every corner. OTP preachers would not drive expensive cars and taking lavish vacations.I could go on but you get the idea.
OTPs use to preach against a lot of stuff that we who are still considered "traditional" no longer adhere to.If we are honest we would admit it.
I remember quite a few things they use to preach against that I have not heard in years.
I remember a group of pastors hounding one old timer who refused to ever by a new car. He used to insist that buying a reliable used car was better stewardship and far more modest than driving some gas guzzling tank around town.

The old timer finally caved in... and sadly, lost some of my respect (Deuteronomy 19:14).

[Fab]

Some things people preached against are not even around any more and some things they preached we had to do to be saved are also not around any more...
So it would be best to go back and study the book and find out what sin really is.

Amen -- Biblical preaching. Not our ideas nor our philosophies. They never saved anyone.

[Melody]

Sorry to have offended anyone, I was not speaking of the young lady. I was questioning the leaders and those in charge not doing their home work. While I'm sure there are alot of pressures on our youth, I would rather see them stand strong than bow to the standards of acceptable dress as posed by the world. I'll stand up any youth trying to walk and support them in their struggles, but neither will I applaud their failures. When the leadership fails to direct and instruct then of course they will drift. Obviously something is lacking.

[Melody]

Some people never get it. Brittany doesn't have the HG, isn't baptized in Jesus Name and the Herles girl does have the HG and is baptized in Jesus name.

Exactly, I couldn't have said it better,

[StillStanding]

Speaking of staus quo, isn't it a definition of insanity to keep doing the same things expecting different results?

[George]

Sorry to have offended anyone, I was not speaking of the young lady. I was questioning the leaders and those in charge not doing their home work. While I'm sure there are alot of pressures on our youth, I would rather see them stand strong than bow to the standards of acceptable dress as posed by the world. I'll stand up any youth trying to walk and support them in their struggles, but neither will I applaud their failures. When the leadership fails to direct and instruct then of course they will drift. Obviously something is lacking.

I wouldn't say using a new convert is applauding failure. When boards meet, they don't run profiles on people they take the fellow ministers word concerning the name submitted. It is also possible that someone else was to have that time slot and cancelled and the leadership just happened to talk to the youth pres. of Herles district and suggested her to fill in. Regardless, I will not condemn Herles nor the youth department for allowing her to testify. From my understanding it was in another room and not on the platform.

[Dora]

I was just curious. Such comments have been made to suggest that the disunity is coming from "Tulsa"
I have yet to see who from Tulsa have written one letter or said anything publically to tear to shreds men with whom they disagree. But I've read letter after letter here attacking the character of good Godly men everyone admired until this situation occurred, but prophets of old weren't especially liked either when they disagreed.
Anyone hear Kenneth Haney's message at GC? I saw his face when he warned to brethren to be careful of using strange methods? Maybe we could get a transcript of the message?
Fundamental Doctrine: ........ We shall endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit until we all come into the unity of the faith, at the same time admonishing all brethren that they shall not contend for their different views to the disunity of the body.

So it was a known fact that if this passed it would cause disunity?

Honey, pull yo' head up out of the sand!

The disunity has been going on for years. With the PSR clique telling their folks not to fellowship even with family or friends who attended other UPCI churches where the pastor did not ascribe to their more conservative agenda.

Just because they APPEAR to be taking the high road by supposedly not writing open letters to the masses, doesn't mean that they haven't been writing letters or contacting UPCI ministers via phone and e-mail trying to persuade them to join their new org behind the scenes.

Where have you been? This stuff has been going on for EONS and has caused much consternation and rampant disunity among the brethren especially in certain western districts.

[Dora]

Melody, if you feel the WPF is the way to go, then sister, you are free to go right on ahead and join up. They would assuredly be proud and happy to have you. God bless!

[Melody]

We aren't talking about a new convert,

Why is it that the brethren are labeled strange for just following the manual?

No resolution is to be heard that could bring disunity, res 4 should have never been brought to the floor.

[MissBrattified]

We aren't talking about a new convert,

Why is it that the brethren are labeled strange for just following the manual?

No resolution is to be heard that could bring disunity, res 4 should have never been brought to the floor.

There were a couple of other resolutions that shouldn't have made it to the floor, but they did, and they passed.

The manual has been amended several times. Passing a resolution to change something within the manual is not outside of bounds of the manual itself. The organization allows for these changes.

[StillStanding]

We aren't talking about a new convert,

Why is it that the brethren are labeled strange for just following the manual?

No resolution is to be heard that could bring disunity, res 4 should have never been brought to the floor.

History will be the judge. I believe that res. #4 will go down as one of the most powerful positive turning points in the history of the Apostolic faith!

[Fab]

We aren't talking about a new convert,

Why is it that the brethren are labeled strange for just following the manual?

No resolution is to be heard that could bring disunity, res 4 should have never been brought to the floor.

If that is the case, why have a business meeting. Any and all resolutions, in someone else's opinion, could bring disunity. That is why they are brought before the voting constituency -- to vote for or against. It goes with the benefits of being in an organization.

[Melody]

No resolution is to be brought to the floor that would cause disunity among the brethren, period. That is the fundamental doctrine.
So how would a resolution on apostolic dress be received?

[MissBrattified]

By the way, the "status quo" is represented by those who want to keep things "as is." Those who went for CHANGE are those who were rejecting the status quo--with their votes.

[Melody]

Not all resolutions are dividing.

[MissBrattified]

No resolution is to be brought to the floor that would cause disunity among the brethren, period. That is the fundamental doctrine.
So how would a resolution on apostolic dress be received?

All resolutions will have supporters and opposition. Otherwise, why even have a vote? What would be the need?

[MissBrattified]

Not all resolutions are dividing.

There was some behind the scenes work that helped create a divide. And that's just my opinion. I've been around this a LONG time, and I've sat in lots of fellowship halls after conferences and meetings and I've HEARD how preachers drop little hints and sow little seeds. Trust me; this didn't just "happen." If you think none of these conservative ministers helped orchestrate any division, you are very naive.

[Fab]

No resolution is to be brought to the floor that would cause disunity among the brethren, period. That is the fundamental doctrine.
So how would a resolution on apostolic dress be received?

There is no need for a resolution on apostolic dress -- it is resolved in the Word.

[George]

If that is the case, why have a business meeting. Any and all resolutions, in someone else's opinion, could bring disunity. That is why they are brought before the voting constituency -- to vote for or against. It goes with the benefits of being in an organization.

Amen.

[George]

No resolution is to be brought to the floor that would cause disunity among the brethren, period. That is the fundamental doctrine.
So how would a resolution on apostolic dress be received?

Every resolution has the potential to cause division if somebody chooses to become offended by it. This is the way of democratic life. Those that get offended are usually political dictators that cannot accept democracy. They could have a resolution over money and people get offended. i.e. Missionaries aren't getting enough so I'm going to pick up my toys and go play somewhere else.
What happened to great peace have they that love thy law and nothing shall offend them?

[Fab]

There was some behind the scenes work that helped create a divide. And that's just my opinion. I've been around this a LONG time, and I've sat in lots of fellowship halls after conferences and meetings and I've HEARD how preachers drop little hints and sow little seeds. Trust me; this didn't just "happen." If you think none of these conservative ministers helped orchestrate any division, you are very naive.

You are so correct in this. AND - as time will tell, once, or if, they form an organization, they will also have resolutions that will divide the floor.

[Melody]

I'm not new, been around a very long time. See both sides, sat in several GC's, been to BOTT, SHE, AMC, HOLY. Usually when one area goes, then things slide,

Look to the world, usually embrace the world,
Look to the word, embrace the word.

[Dora]

WPF would love to have you with them.

Go for it! You'll be with like-minded folks.

[George]

I'm not new, been around a very long time. See both sides, sat in several GC's, been to BOTT, SHE, AMC, HOLY. Usually when one area goes, then things slide,

Look to the world, usually embrace the world,
Look to the word, embrace the word.

Are you accusing us of looking to the world because we don't share your opinions?

[MissBrattified]

I'm not new, been around a very long time. See both sides, sat in several GC's, been to BOTT, SHE, AMC, HOLY. Usually when one area goes, then things slide,

Look to the world, usually embrace the world,
Look to the word, embrace the word.

I've been to many conferences, too. I wasn't referring to sitting in conferences and seminars.

[Melody]

No open discussion and opinions are fine and wasn't accusatory at all. Seems most of the accusations are coming from those opposed to Tulsa. Wonder how much oppostion there was to the 1945 conference?

It is the leadership that is my concern. The laity will follow the leadership.

I'm not talking about the observation section either.

[Melody]

It was on the main platform, were you there?

[MissBrattified]

It was on the main platform, were you there?

Melody, I give. You trump me in experience, contacts, intelligence and over-all-know-it-allness.

Have a great day.

[Melody]

Regardless, I will not condemn Herles nor the youth department for allowing her to testify. From my understanding it was in another room and not on the platform.

Miss Brattifield I wasn't addressing you, George thought that it wasn't on the platform not just a casual setting. I was asking him if he was there.

sorry if you felt I was.

do I need a white flag?

[StillStanding]

Miss Brattifield I was addressing you, George thought that it wasn't on the platform not just a casual setting. I was asking him if he was there.

sorry if you felt I was.

do I need a white flag?Melody, It appears you will be much happier with the new Tulsa group. May you find the happiness you pine for! :)

[Dora]

:lalala

[MissBrattified]

Miss Brattifield I was addressing you, George thought that it wasn't on the platform not just a casual setting. I was asking him if he was there.

sorry if you felt I was.

do I need a white flag?

Perhaps. :hmmm

Okay, sorry, I thought you were saying "I was on the platform, were you there?"

LOL!!!! Reading what I want to read, I suppose. :D

Regardless, I was talking about preachers sitting around tables eating and talking in more intimate settings. I've heard a lot more smack talk in conservative circles than anywhere else, and often it is very subtle, and very effective.

I'm not saying one side is right or wrong. I'm just saying that there is no WAY the Tulsa crew has kept their nose clean in this one.

[StillStanding]

Perhaps. :hmmm

Okay, sorry, I thought you were saying "I was on the platform, were you there?"

LOL!!!! Reading what I want to read, I suppose. :D

Regardless, I was talking about preachers sitting around tables eating and talking in more intimate settings. I've heard a lot more smack talk in conservative circles than anywhere else, and often it is very subtle, and very effective.

I'm not saying one side is right or wrong. I'm just saying that there is no WAY the Tulsa crew has kept their nose clean in this one.

You are correct! :thumbsup

The leadership on both sides of this issue are trying to take the high road, but their foot soldiers are doing plenty of talking!

[Michael Phelps]

If that were the case there would have never been the birth of the UPCI as we now know it.

"The Assemblies of God experienced a major schism early in their history when they adopted the doctrine of the Trinity at their Fourth General Council in October 1916 in St. Louis. Those that withdrew from the fellowship were known as "Oneness Pentecostals," who believed in baptizing "in the name of Jesus Christ" and not "in the name of The Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost/Spirit." This schism caused the loss of approximately one-fourth of recognized A/G ministers, including all ministers in the state of Louisiana. Oneness ministers met in Eureka Springs, Arkansas, and on January 2, 1917, they formed their own fellowship. Two "Oneness" organizations were birthed out of this split. The Pentecostal Assemblies Of The World (PAW) and a group which later became known as the United Pentecostal Church International"

The bible is full of times when God's people were steered back to a more intimate relationship with him. Funny how that usually did involve idols.

So I assume that your position is that the Tulsa group is moving back into a more intimate relationship with God, and that TV is an idol?

[Melody]

*whew*
Glad we cleared the air, I will try to be more direct if answering. No I would rather not be on the platform. Too much of a target, It just really bothers me that there seems to be such a push that the Tulsa gentlemen are wrong.

I love this movement. Not that I"m "that" old (smile, humor injected here) but I was born in a old fashioned bible study, grew up with the bobby pins, was a bus kid, someone sacrificed for me on numerous occasions. I don't want there to be a split, I don't want either side to be hurt, I don't always agree, I'm not going to say my way is the right way, I just know that many things made up this organization and I don't want to lose it.

My sister lives in a large town with many churches within driving distance, she isn't in the truth at all, but when she meets someone she will ask if they are old tyme pentecost or new tyme. When did there become a "new" tyme?

Her definition is folks that wear makeup and have tv are new. While those that don't are "old"

[Michael Phelps]

*whew*
Glad we cleared the air, I will try to be more direct if answering. No I would rather not be on the platform. Too much of a target, It just really bothers me that there seems to be such a push that the Tulsa gentlemen are wrong.

I love this movement. Not that I"m "that" old (smile, humor injected here) but I was born in a old fashioned bible study, grew up with the bobby pins, was a bus kid, someone sacrificed for me on numerous occasions. I don't want there to be a split, I don't want either side to be hurt, I don't always agree, I'm not going to say my way is the right way, I just know that many things made up this organization and I don't want to lose it.

My sister lives in a large town with many churches within driving distance, she isn't in the truth at all, but when she meets someone she will ask if they are old tyme pentecost or new tyme. When did there become a "new" tyme?

Her definition is folks that wear makeup and have tv are new. While those that don't are "old"

To the "old old time" Pentecostals, people who had radio and wore red dresses were "new time".

What about internet?

[Fab]

*whew*
Glad we cleared the air, I will try to be more direct if answering. No I would rather not be on the platform. Too much of a target, It just really bothers me that there seems to be such a push that the Tulsa gentlemen are wrong.



I haven't heard anyone directly say that the Tulsa gentlemen were wrong. I do believe that there are some concern towards the validity of their reasoning to start a new movement.

[Michael Phelps]

I haven't heard anyone directly say that the Tulsa gentlemen were wrong. I do believe that there are some concern towards the validity of their reasoning to start a new movement.

I believe, by their actions, that the Tulsa brethren are saying the UPC is wrong.

[Fab]

I believe, by their actions, that the Tulsa brethren are saying the UPC is wrong.

I agree 100%.

[Melody]

Internet poses dangers of itself, that is why principles are so very important, but by large television has spiraled out of control.

oh for the days when it was only a phrase from Clark Gable was bad.

I'm sure someone could more eloquently explain.

[Fab]

Internet poses dangers of itself, that is why principles are so very important, but by large television has spiraled out of control.

oh for the days when it was only a phrase from Clark Gable was bad.

I'm sure someone could more eloquently explain.

As far as accessibility, TV is light years behind internet. But the matter is still a matter of the heart and the choice that one would make.

[Melody]

Omaha? Bellevue?

[Michael Phelps]

Omaha? Bellevue?

West Omaha. You must know the area?

[Melody]

No, I've never made it to the state just have friends up that way. They do say the steaks are great.

[Michael Phelps]

No, I've never made it to the state just have friends up that way. They do say the steaks are great.

Well, we're definitely not known for our seafood, lol.

Who are your friends? Do they attend the UPC church in Bellevue?

I used to preach there many, many years ago, and am still friends with the Brott's. Ironic that I wind up out here so many years later!

[Melody]

Sorry, the Anthony's and Poe's