PDA

View Full Version : 1500 at the Tulsa meeting...question


Ferd
01-25-2008, 09:43 AM
I didnt want to hijact the reporting threads... as others have done.

but this number begs the question.

is that a disapointing number?

we were told there would be 2000 there. Now we hear around 1500 with wives and kids.

somewhere around 1000 to 1200 ministers are present. if you figure half are just there to observe, we are talking around a max of 600 willing to step out.

seems to me that this is a pretty small number in the grand scheme of things.

pelathais
01-25-2008, 09:44 AM
Agreed. The pre-Tulsa predictions stated that a hall seating 2500 had been reserved and that it was expected to be standing room only. Maybe more will trail in as the weekend gets closer.

Maple Leaf
01-25-2008, 09:45 AM
I didnt want to hijact the reporting threads... as others have done.

but this number begs the question.

is that a disapointing number?

we were told there would be 2000 there. Now we hear around 1500 with wives and kids.

somewhere around 1000 to 1200 ministers are present. if you figure half are just there to observe, we are talking around a max of 600 willing to step out.

seems to me that this is a pretty small number in the grand scheme of things.

How many ministers usually show up to vote at General Conference?

1000, 1200, 1500????

1200 ministers is a huge number.

Fab
01-25-2008, 09:46 AM
I didnt want to hijact the reporting threads... as others have done.

but this number begs the question.

is that a disapointing number?

we were told there would be 2000 there. Now we hear around 1500 with wives and kids.

somewhere around 1000 to 1200 ministers are present. if you figure half are just there to observe, we are talking around a max of 600 willing to step out.

seems to me that this is a pretty small number in the grand scheme of things.

1st meeting. I think some are waiting to see what the response will be - from UPC as well as other ministers.

Ferd
01-25-2008, 09:46 AM
Pel, I still stand behind my prediction of 1000 ministers leaving and 500 churchs.

I just wonder what % of that number this group will get? seems to me like they are falling short.

MissBrattified
01-25-2008, 09:46 AM
Forgive my ignorance...but...how many licensed ministers are there in the UPCI? Ballpark?

Ferd
01-25-2008, 09:46 AM
How many ministers usually show up to vote at General Conference?

1000, 1200, 1500????

1200 ministers is a huge number.

I think double that number is more accurate.

Ferd
01-25-2008, 09:46 AM
Forgive my ignorance...but...how many licensed ministers are there in the UPCI? Ballpark?

ten thousand

Wink
01-25-2008, 09:49 AM
I didnt want to hijact the reporting threads... as others have done.

but this number begs the question.

is that a disapointing number?

we were told there would be 2000 there. Now we hear around 1500 with wives and kids.

somewhere around 1000 to 1200 ministers are present. if you figure half are just there to observe, we are talking around a max of 600 willing to step out.

seems to me that this is a pretty small number in the grand scheme of things.


What does it cost to go to tulsa? Flight Hotel Food 1000.00 plus. Why would just an "observer" spend this kind of money? Surely the family could enjoy a short vacation within this budget.

Is curiosity worth a grand?

Ferd
01-25-2008, 09:49 AM
1st meeting. I think some are waiting to see what the response will be - from UPC as well as other ministers.

could be. this might snowball.


but we were told 2k to 2500 and standing room only. seems like they didnt get what they were looking for.

Ferd
01-25-2008, 09:51 AM
What does it cost to go to tulsa? Flight Hotel Food 1000.00 plus. Why would just an "observer" spend this kind of money? Surely the family could enjoy a short vacation within this budget.

Is curiosity worth a grand?

i am just repeating what others have said. There are a lot of guys within driving distance to get there.

we shall see wont we?

bottom line 1200 is a small number considering what we have been told.

Fab
01-25-2008, 09:52 AM
Maybe the numbers were exaggerated to help build up the curiousity and anticipation.

AmazingGrace
01-25-2008, 09:52 AM
What does it cost to go to tulsa? Flight Hotel Food 1000.00 plus. Why would just an "observer" spend this kind of money? Surely the family could enjoy a short vacation within this budget.

Is curiosity worth a grand?

For a lot of the ones I know who are there as observers... they are either from OK or Tx and some of them even have family or friends there and the trip is actually costing them nothing but gas.. one of my cousins who pastors a church in that area.. has 10 pastors staying in his home this weekend and they are having a grand time... without the grand :)

StillStanding
01-25-2008, 09:54 AM
How many ministers usually show up to vote at General Conference?

1000, 1200, 1500????

1200 ministers is a huge number.

1200 is indeed a huge number! Most folks tend to over estimate attendance though.

e.g. The auditorium looks almost full and it seats 2,500 people. The auditorium could look almost with 1000 people if there are empty seats between groups of people.

The real numbers will be how many signed on to be a part of the new organization. As others have said, many (if not most) are attending out of mere curiousity!

pelathais
01-25-2008, 09:55 AM
What does it cost to go to tulsa? Flight Hotel Food 1000.00 plus. Why would just an "observer" spend this kind of money? Surely the family could enjoy a short vacation within this budget.

Is curiosity worth a grand?
Tulsa pretty central to a lot of folks. I've seen large numbers drive hundreds of miles just for the "road trip" with a couple of friends. And the conference expenses are a tax write off for many or the church pays.

Still, "1200" isn't "huge" as another stated. There are over 300 million people in the United States. 1200 isn't even a drop in the bucket. We're small potatoes and most folks don't even know that we exist.

Maple Leaf
01-25-2008, 09:55 AM
I think double that number is more accurate.

Here is the reported numbers for the vote on Resolution 4 - a larger than normal General Conference business session:

1065 yes
982 no


1200 ministers is a very significant number.

Wink
01-25-2008, 09:56 AM
i am just repeating what others have said. There are a lot of guys within driving distance to get there.

we shall see wont we?

bottom line 1200 is a small number considering what we have been told.

i wasnt disagreeing with you at all just making an observation. I live 5 hours from tulsa but im sitting in my living room right now. I travel so much that i take every chance i get to be home.
I have enough friends that i will find out all of the details soon enough.

Im sure there are a lot of motivations to be there

Ferd
01-25-2008, 10:03 AM
Here is the reported numbers for the vote on Resolution 4 - a larger than normal General Conference business session:




1200 ministers is a very significant number.

as a raw number, if it represent better than 10% of the UPCI, yes it is.

If however it is half the number that was expected, it is a disappointment.

Also, when you factor in the likelyhood that half the number there is actually not UPCI at all, then you are talking about 600 max from the UPCI, and maybe not even half that number will join!

Now we are talking about 300 to 400 UPCI ministers joining and we are down below 5%.

1200 seems at this point to be a dissapointment to me.

CC1
01-25-2008, 10:04 AM
I agree that a significant number of ministers are there. However if there are 1500 people there and that includes wives and children the actual number of ministers is probably somewhere around 750-1000. Still a large number. Perhaps half what the organizers wanted but double what the UPC was hoping would show up.

As someone else mentioned the question also then becomes how many are there just out of curiosity and how many are there ready to sign up?

My answer to the poster who doubted many would go out of curiosity because of the cost underestimate what OTP's count as entertainment! For those whose churches can afford for them to attend conferences this would certainly be one I would think they would be interested in observing as it is the first real challenge to the UPC.

Even if you take the low numbers, say 1,000 actual ministers in attendance if even just 50% agree to sign up that is 500 ministers which is a tremendous start for a new org.

Once we know how many of the ministers are there just to observe and have no intention of leaving the UPC and how many are there that will leave the UPC but choose to go independent rather than pay over one thousand dollars a year to a new org., then we can judge their success.

BrotherEastman
01-25-2008, 10:08 AM
ten thousand
Actually the number is closer to 8000.

Fab
01-25-2008, 10:14 AM
Just curious -- does anyone know what the age breakdown (just a rough estimate will suffice) is of the ministers in attendance?

Discerner
01-25-2008, 10:15 AM
could be. this might snowball.


but we were told 2k to 2500 and standing room only. seems like they didnt get what they were looking for.

They definately missed their target, now wait for the spin. I know of numerous people going merely for the entertainment value and have no desire whatsoever of joining.

Also, there are many independents that are looking for a place to join.

You know what they say about birds of a feather.

MissBrattified
01-25-2008, 10:17 AM
This could turn out to be nothing at all...not even a blip on the radar. OR, it could be very significant, and the UPCI could be underestimating the appeal of this new "organization."

I say its too early to tell either way. A year from now we will have a much better idea.

Steve Epley
01-25-2008, 10:18 AM
Ferd the number for the 1st service was about 1200 mostly men and a great number of men i heard from personally were stranded either in flight or hotel. So it could very well be close to 1500 and up today. These are preacher mostly pastors that have been active besides the GIBs who went to observe.
In truth if 500 pastors join with the influencial men leading it could very well triple within a year or so. That is a large base for beginning an organization with prominent men and churches. I wll report more on the Tulsa 2 thread.

Steve Epley
01-25-2008, 10:21 AM
Just curious -- does anyone know what the age breakdown (just a rough estimate will suffice) is of the ministers in attendance?

I heard it was fairly mixed.

StillStanding
01-25-2008, 10:23 AM
Here is the reported numbers for the vote on Resolution 4 - a larger than normal General Conference business session:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
1065 yes
982 no


1200 ministers is a very significant number.

The 982 brought a few of their GIB friends? :D

Fab
01-25-2008, 10:24 AM
I heard it was fairly mixed.

Thanks, again just curious.

BoredOutOfMyMind
01-25-2008, 10:30 AM
Ferd, after all those letters, would you go??

Pastor G
01-25-2008, 10:32 AM
The 982 brought a few of their GIB friends? :D

R U joking or do you know this?

StillStanding
01-25-2008, 10:34 AM
R U joking or do you know this?
It was a question! :D

Ferd
01-25-2008, 10:35 AM
Ferd, after all those letters, would you go??

BOOM, If I didnt have some church commitments this week, It is all together likely that I would BE there right now with a lap top, providing minute by minute updates!

I even have extended family that lives in Tulsa to stay with!

alas, we are in the beginning stages of a building program and we have meetings and I have Protest Chili to make!

Steve Epley
01-25-2008, 10:36 AM
The 982 brought a few of their GIB friends? :D

Thus only 2000 was at GC to vote? If so then this looks real bad to have maybe 1000 here? That is 1/2 of the voting body. Not good I would say.

Quoting 8000 as membership then having 2000 voting and maybe 1/2 of them leaving? No wonder the officials are writing letters!

Ferd
01-25-2008, 10:37 AM
I will say, this group, if they do things right just might be a fantastic thing for the Apostolic movement.

there are many independant men and many in the UPCI that are fish out of water. by joining and having a much tighter focus, they have an ability to be united.

by leaving the UPCI, the UPCI has a chance to be much more united than it has been in a generation.

in the end, both groups may end up being better off and more productive!

stmatthew
01-25-2008, 10:42 AM
I think some were disheartened when it was found out that all the structure was already in place. A lot of ministers were hoping to get in on the building of this group,and were disappointed that the building was finished prior to the first "info" meeting in Tulsa. This COULD be the reason for a lower turnout.

Steve Epley
01-25-2008, 10:45 AM
I think some were disheartened when it was found out that all the structure was already in place. A lot of ministers were hoping to get in on the building of this group,and were disappointed that the building was finished prior to the first "info" meeting in Tulsa. This COULD be the reason for a lower turnout.

They are smart men but they shot themselves in the foot I think. To announce the 49 without any input from the floor? I know many men are there that are not going to join because of that and I know many who did not go because of that. Then some of the 49??????????????????????
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPS!

pelathais
01-25-2008, 11:08 AM
I will say, this group, if they do things right just might be a fantastic thing for the Apostolic movement.

there are many independant men and many in the UPCI that are fish out of water. by joining and having a much tighter focus, they have an ability to be united.

by leaving the UPCI, the UPCI has a chance to be much more united than it has been in a generation.

in the end, both groups may end up being better off and more productive!
It strikes me that the "wrong" group is leaving. The WwPF folks aren't all that "conservative" across the board. They just strike me as being a bunch of guys who got bored over the winter. I know, the roots of this thing go deeper than that, but still that's the impression I'm left with.

Now, if more of the AMC type crowd had joined in I would be impressed. Instead most of those folks just seem to be happy to see the UPC tearing at itself.

I wonder what would happen if everyone got a real revelation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ? Now there's a group that I could enthusiatically join.

Steve Epley
01-25-2008, 11:20 AM
It strikes me that the "wrong" group is leaving. The WwPF folks aren't all that "conservative" across the board. They just strike me as being a bunch of guys who got bored over the winter. I know, the roots of this thing go deeper than that, but still that's the impression I'm left with.

Now, if more of the AMC type crowd had joined in I would be impressed. Instead most of those folks just seem to be happy to see the UPC tearing at itself.

I wonder what would happen if everyone got a real revelation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ? Now there's a group that I could enthusiatically join.

I won't comment because I don't want to be seen as tearing them down befor the get off their feet, but I have some of the same thoughts.

Moe
01-25-2008, 12:25 PM
Thus only 2000 was at GC to vote? If so then this looks real bad to have maybe 1000 here? That is 1/2 of the voting body. Not good I would say.

Quoting 8000 as membership then having 2000 voting and maybe 1/2 of them leaving? No wonder the officials are writing letters!

In all due respect to this line of reasoning, there is never much more than the numbers previously listed who attend GC. It is usually 20 to 30% or so of our licensee's that shows up at any conference. money is a viable issue for most ministers and a vast majority of our conference is families, saints and visitors. It is always stratigically placed for this reason. So.......There can be no accurate assessment on any of this for now.

However, when there is a cause or the promise of "change" people are all ears and will go to the ends of the earth to be a part of radical change. It is in our DNA to do this (IMHO) This is in and out of the church, politic's and more. We love to be part of history.

So, I think those that go will see what there is to see, make their assesment, leave to either stay or go. Those that stay with the UPCI may do so now with more resolve to plug in and be a contributing member and not a bystander and witness and explosive growth like we have never seen before. Those that choose to leave will attach themselves to likeminded men and will I am sure be blessed in their endeavors. Whatever the motives are on either side, God knows how to turn it all around so "HE" can get Glory. I pray we witness that on both sides.

I have family now who are on both sides so yes I too have a personal stake in what the outcome is.

So....as it plays out we will all watch and pray........and some of us "post" LOL

jrLA
01-25-2008, 01:14 PM
Thus only 2000 was at GC to vote? If so then this looks real bad to have maybe 1000 here? That is 1/2 of the voting body. Not good I would say.

Quoting 8000 as membership then having 2000 voting and maybe 1/2 of them leaving? No wonder the officials are writing letters!

I don't think you can say that it was 1/2 of the voting body of GC being that some there were not UPC. I think this will not be as big as first expected. Maybe I am wrong.....:TulsaNO:

jrLA
01-25-2008, 01:19 PM
It strikes me that the "wrong" group is leaving. The WwPF folks aren't all that "conservative" across the board. They just strike me as being a bunch of guys who got bored over the winter. I know, the roots of this thing go deeper than that, but still that's the impression I'm left with.

Now, if more of the AMC type crowd had joined in I would be impressed. Instead most of those folks just seem to be happy to see the UPC tearing at itself.

I wonder what would happen if everyone got a real revelation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ? Now there's a group that I could enthusiatically join.

You've got that right! I know many of the men in the Sacred 49 that are not NEARLY as conservative as this group is SUPPOSED to be. It really sounds more like political manuvering than convictions being followed.... JMO.

I know I prob shouldn't say that, but....ooops said!
:girlytantrum

RevBuddy
01-25-2008, 01:28 PM
AVERAGE AGE OF WPF ATTENDEE... 77.46 years... :TulsaNO:

TrmptPraise
01-25-2008, 01:39 PM
I heard all the songs at Tulsa last night ended on Ab minor discord? (See what I did there?) :killinme

Cindy
01-25-2008, 01:41 PM
I heard all the songs at Tulsa last night ended on Ab minor discord? (See what I did there?) :killinme

:bubble

Barb
01-25-2008, 01:49 PM
could be. this might snowball.


but we were told 2k to 2500 and standing room only. seems like they didnt get what they were looking for.I hope they don't, but Ferd, if it's only one, it's one too many...JMHO...

Mrs. LPW
01-25-2008, 02:03 PM
I heard all the songs at Tulsa last night ended on Ab minor discord? (See what I did there?) :killinme

Cute

freeatlast
01-25-2008, 02:08 PM
Just curious -- does anyone know what the age breakdown (just a rough estimate will suffice) is of the ministers in attendance?

73.4 years old

freeatlast
01-25-2008, 02:13 PM
AVERAGE AGE OF WPF ATTENDEE... 77.46 years... :TulsaNO:

ooopss ya beat me to the punchline RevBuddy :TulsaTime:

rgcraig
01-25-2008, 02:21 PM
AVERAGE AGE OF WPF ATTENDEE... 77.46 years... :TulsaNO:

LOL - - you are in trouble now!

RevBuddy
01-25-2008, 02:23 PM
Freeatlast...you gotta be quicker than that!!!!

RevBuddy
01-25-2008, 02:24 PM
rgcraig... at least I didn't post the average IQ... :happydance

rgcraig
01-25-2008, 02:44 PM
rgcraig... at least I didn't post the average IQ... :happydance

Now be nice.:TulsaTime:

yogi
01-25-2008, 02:45 PM
Does anyone know the racial breakdown of the group? Any blacks, hispanics, asians ect?

AmazingGrace
01-25-2008, 02:57 PM
Does anyone know the racial breakdown of the group? Any blacks, hispanics, asians ect?

And it matters why?????????? Does God care the color? Be it WWAF or UPC or ALJC color or race is not an issue... I want to question why you seem to be making it one?

RevBuddy
01-25-2008, 02:57 PM
Yogi...now you know YOU'RE SMARTER THAN THE AVERAGE BEAR...you can answer that queston with one word...

trickledown
01-25-2008, 03:02 PM
yogi may just have an interest in diversity. i happen to have a couple of ethnically diverse friends that attend churches pastored by wpf members. they are probably interested in the diversity at this meeting or lack there of. i actually learned of this forum from a member of one of the six's church. they said they often come here to see what the crazies are bashing them for... by the way i think this individual is crazy and pass no judgement on this forum

StillStanding
01-25-2008, 03:06 PM
yogi may just have an interest in diversity. i happen to have a couple of ethnically diverse friends that attend churches pastored by wpf members. they are probably interested in the diversity at this meeting or lack there of. i actually learned of this forum from a member of one of the six's church. they said they often come here to see what the crazies are bashing them for... by the way i think this individual is crazy and pass no judgement on this forum
Welcome aboard, TD! :D

Wink
01-25-2008, 03:07 PM
just wondering if it was possible that some of the tulsa group actually voted on proposition 4 just to push this thing in that direction. One Never Knows

StillStanding
01-25-2008, 03:09 PM
just wondering if it was possible that some of the tulsa group actually voted on proposition 4 just to push this thing in that direction. One Never Knows

That would be evil! I don't believe anyone would do that! :)

yogi
01-25-2008, 03:12 PM
And it matters why?????????? Does God care the color? Be it WWAF or UPC or ALJC color or race is not an issue... I want to question why you seem to be making it one?

Race always matters, regardless of how politically correct we try to be. The most segregated time in our nation is Sunday morning. There is a reason why organizations have black, latin, asian outreach programs, there is a obvious lack of diversity in our churches and if a new org is going to "map a preffered Apostolic Future" I would like to see some color in that map

Wink
01-25-2008, 03:13 PM
if the wheels were already in motion and you knew that is was going to come back to the table next year then why not push it over the edge.

Consapostolic1
01-25-2008, 03:14 PM
if the wheels were already in motion and you knew that is was going to come back to the table next year then why not push it over the edge.

What exactly are you referring to?

Wink
01-25-2008, 03:16 PM
just wondering if it was possible that some of the tulsa group actually voted on proposition 4 just to push this thing in that direction. One Never Knows


this statement

BoredOutOfMyMind
01-25-2008, 03:17 PM
yogi may just have an interest in diversity. i happen to have a couple of ethnically diverse friends that attend churches pastored by wpf members. they are probably interested in the diversity at this meeting or lack there of. i actually learned of this forum from a member of one of the six's church. they said they often come here to see what the crazies are bashing them for... by the way i think this individual is crazy and pass no judgement on this forum

Since you posted here, are you crazy?

:crazy

Consapostolic1
01-25-2008, 03:17 PM
It doesn't matter now what's been done has been done

ForeverBlessed
01-25-2008, 03:22 PM
Actually the number is closer to 8000.

Does that include all licensed ministers?

Such as the fact that my church alone has at least 7 licensed with UPCI... and no.. they are NOT there.

BoredOutOfMyMind
01-25-2008, 03:26 PM
Actually the number is closer to 8000.

I have heard 9600.

but maybe that was before the 27 left.......

Wink
01-25-2008, 03:31 PM
It doesn't matter now what's been done has been done

Sure you can pull nails out of a board but still have holes
you can rip apart a feather pillow on a windy day and you will never get all of the feathers back

Some of the larger churches can have any speaker they want(money is no object) but how about the small churches that dont have that luxury?
Will this affect their circle of fellowship? How far will they have to travel for youth functions.
How much additional isolation will be implemented directly affecting youth and new converts
What about the members of the church. How will this affect them.

ForeverBlessed
01-25-2008, 03:36 PM
Sure you can pull nails out of a board but still have holes
you can rip apart a feather pillow on a windy day and you will never get all of the feathers back

Some of the larger churches can have any speaker they want(money is no object) but how about the small churches that dont have that luxury?
Will this affect their circle of fellowship? How far will they have to travel for youth functions.
How much additional isolation will be implemented directly affecting youth and new converts
What about the members of the church. How will this affect them.

Not to mention.. think of how it would impact missions and other programs that people depend on... I mean, there is a lot to think about besides the issue at hand (TV) in my opinion.

RevBuddy
01-25-2008, 03:38 PM
Yogi...if we took a picture of the WFP congregation...it would be a white & white picture.

Melody
01-25-2008, 03:40 PM
How do you get your figures on ministers?

BoredOutOfMyMind
01-25-2008, 03:41 PM
How do you get your figures on ministers?

Maybe some one bought a list.....

:stirpot

Melody
01-25-2008, 03:45 PM
*giggle*

RevBuddy
01-25-2008, 03:52 PM
The 9,000 number is about right. About two years ago it was reported at 8,642 by HQ.

Steve Epley
01-25-2008, 05:46 PM
I don't think you can say that it was 1/2 of the voting body of GC being that some there were not UPC. I think this will not be as big as first expected. Maybe I am wrong.....:TulsaNO:

I was misunderstood I was not saying this was the SAME I was only speaking numerically.

bishoph
01-26-2008, 11:47 PM
I was there.........The numbers were approx. 1500 on Thursday evening with about 85% (1275) of those ministers. On Friday, (day) there were 950 ministers in attendance (not counting women/children) Friday evening attendance was over 1500 again.

The initial predictions about 2000-2500 were not made by the "framers" of the WPF, but rather by many (myself included) who were getting reports from various sources of men who were stating they were going to go. As has been stated already this prediction was probably very accurate........but when WPF released their structure/filled positions without adequate explanation, many men who had planned to go changed their minds.

IMHO the fact that there were 1000+ ministers at this initial meeting (regardless of wether they will join or just observe) establishes the WPF as wielding powerful influence within the North American Apostolic movement. As it relates to Apostolics, this is a huge attendance of ministers for any conference. BOT only has about 2500 in attendance (after 20 years) including women and children. (Not downing BOT at all just using their numbers as a reference)

TrueNorth
01-27-2008, 06:57 AM
Here is the reported numbers for the vote on Resolution 4 - a larger than normal General Conference business session:




1200 ministers is a very significant number.

Apple strudel
Remember, there are specific criteria that define a voter in the UPC. There were more ministers at conference who did not have a vote.
You can't take five guys from your church and have them all vote.

Of course, in Tulsa you can take five guys from your church and none of you can vote.:TulsaROCKS:

IAintMovin
01-27-2008, 07:33 AM
I didnt want to hijact the reporting threads... as others have done.

but this number begs the question.

is that a disapointing number?

we were told there would be 2000 there. Now we hear around 1500 with wives and kids.

somewhere around 1000 to 1200 ministers are present. if you figure half are just there to observe, we are talking around a max of 600 willing to step out.

seems to me that this is a pretty small number in the grand scheme of things.


Actually a great number......I do not know of any other group that had those kind of numbers in their first meeting.........now I realize that you are not in favor of the meeting, so anything to cast a negative light is cool?? right??.... I am not joining up, but great meeting, great men and if I did not want to stay put right where I am (UPCI still the best out there) ..........I promise you I would be with these men in this meeting and group.............

IAintMovin
01-27-2008, 07:36 AM
I was there.........The numbers were approx. 1500 on Thursday evening with about 85% (1275) of those ministers. On Friday, (day) there were 950 ministers in attendance (not counting women/children) Friday evening attendance was over 1500 again.

The initial predictions about 2000-2500 were not made by the "framers" of the WPF, but rather by many (myself included) who were getting reports from various sources of men who were stating they were going to go. As has been stated already this prediction was probably very accurate........but when WPF released their structure/filled positions without adequate explanation, many men who had planned to go changed their minds.

IMHO the fact that there were 1000+ ministers at this initial meeting (regardless of wether they will join or just observe) establishes the WPF as wielding powerful influence within the North American Apostolic movement. As it relates to Apostolics, this is a huge attendance of ministers for any conference. BOT only has about 2500 in attendance (after 20 years) including women and children. (Not downing BOT at all just using their numbers as a reference)

Not downing either, but this is so true and unlike WFP where a small % brought their wives with them and a very small % had children with them......at BOTT almost everyone is wife and child - at least 85% or more..........so we can safely say that there are only about 1250 ministers at BOTT..........I dont get the small numbers deal........Foot I have been to GC where there were less ministers in a business meeting.......

Felicity
01-27-2008, 07:38 AM
If you think of this as an event/conference being held with well known and respected names as speakers who've been in Oneness apostolic circles for many many years, I don't think 1200 is a huge number really.

IAintMovin
01-27-2008, 07:44 AM
If you think of this as an event/conference being held with well known and respected names as speakers who've been in Oneness apostolic circles for many many years, I don't think 1200 is a huge number really.


Now days people do not travel and do these meetings like they once did........BOTT was down this year from what I heard - (at least the pre-reg numbers didnt happen like the past).......GC was good but only because of R4..........

YOu need to keep in mind that there was NOT a local church to help pack the building out either......by my count there were very few OK men there ..... so almost everyone came from out of state.......good turnout for first meeting.......

CC1
01-27-2008, 07:50 AM
Actually a great number......I do not know of any other group that had those kind of numbers in their first meeting.........now I realize that you are not in favor of the meeting, so anything to cast a negative light is cool?? right??.... I am not joining up, but great meeting, great men and if I did not want to stay put right where I am (UPCI still the best out there) ..........I promise you I would be with these men in this meeting and group.............

Why not join? You could be a pioneer in your area! After all you are in a bastion of UPC conservatism for your state (your side of the state anyway).

I would assume some of your nearby neighbors like the highly thought of very large man has jumped ship for the "preferred future".

IAintMovin
01-27-2008, 07:54 AM
Why not join? You could be a pioneer in your area! After all you are in a bastion of UPC conservatism for your state (your side of the state anyway).

I would assume some of your nearby neighbors like the highly thought of very large man has jumped ship for the "preferred future".
Your post proves to me that you either mistake me for someone else or you really dont know me at all............ :D :D .........nope not joining........but I will speak truth and that is that it was a very nice meeting and there was a great spirit there........

rgcraig
01-27-2008, 07:55 AM
Your post proves to me that you either mistake me for someone else or you really dont know me at all............ :D :D .........nope not joining........but I will speak truth and that is that it was a very nice meeting and there was a great spirit there........

Do you think some there thought you'd be interested in joining or where there several ministers there just to check it out?

CC1
01-27-2008, 07:57 AM
Your post proves to me that you either mistake me for someone else or you really dont know me at all............ :D :D .........nope not joining........but I will speak truth and that is that it was a very nice meeting and there was a great spirit there........

I am terrible about forgetting who is who with their avatars but I think I do remember who you are.

Do you pastor not too terribly far from a very large pastor with the initials CW and very close to a pastor with the initials ADS?

Barb
01-27-2008, 07:57 AM
Do you think some there thought you'd be interested in joining or where there several ministers there just to check it out?

The son of a family friend was there to just check it out...haven't heard his take on it.

pelathais
01-27-2008, 11:55 AM
Your post proves to me that you either mistake me for someone else or you really dont know me at all............ :D :D .........nope not joining........but I will speak truth and that is that it was a very nice meeting and there was a great spirit there........
Everyone talks about the "great spirit," however how do you feel about the apparently deceptive recruiting tactics in using the UPC ministerial list to promote the meeting?

That deception was the foundation for the whole event and got the event established on a pretty shaky foundation ethically, IMO. What does that say about the spirit that you felt?

Felicity
01-27-2008, 12:23 PM
If you think of this as an event/conference being held with well known and respected names as speakers who've been in Oneness apostolic circles for many many years, I don't think 1200 is a huge number really.

Now days people do not travel and do these meetings like they once did........BOTT was down this year from what I heard - (at least the pre-reg numbers didnt happen like the past).......GC was good but only because of R4..........

YOu need to keep in mind that there was NOT a local church to help pack the building out either......by my count there were very few OK men there ..... so almost everyone came from out of state.......good turnout for first meeting.......

Your post proves to me that you either mistake me for someone else or you really dont know me at all............ :D :D .........nope not joining........but I will speak truth and that is that it was a very nice meeting and there was a great spirit there........Thanks bro. I'm sure your perspective is good. I take your comments seriously, and I agree that taking into consideration the factors you present it was a good turnout. I wouldn't dispute that at all, but I just don't think that given the roster of speakers, the "issues", and the fact that this was a landmark/history making event that 1200 or so was a HUGE number. Good number, yes. Outstanding or huge number - no. But that's just my opinion thinking about the meetings we used to attend back several years ago. :)

Also, there's not doubt in my mind at all but what the services were good and a good spirit present. I wouldn't expect anything different than that really.

What is the reason do you think that people aren't attending the various meetings taking place across the fellowship as a whole? Are people just getting burnt out? Is it just becoming more of the 'same old same old'? Lethargy? Too busy? More pastors working secular jobs?

I'm truly interested the 'why' of the lower numbers.

Coonskinner
01-27-2008, 12:32 PM
Pretty phenomenal numbers for no longer than it had been announced. Certainly a much bigger blip on the radar than the opposers wanted to predict or see.

Big enough to reflect a fair amound of interest in what was going on, and more than enough to make Hazelwood nervous.

Michael Phelps
01-27-2008, 12:38 PM
Pretty phenomenal numbers for no longer than it had been announced. Certainly a much bigger blip on the radar than the opposers wanted to predict or see.

Big enough to reflect a fair amound of interest in what was going on, and more than enough to make Hazelwood nervous.

It will be interesting to see how many just went to check it out and will not join. Seems to happen quite often whenever a new thing starts.......big crowds at first, and then when the new wears off, or the curiosity is sated, it settles down.

CC1
01-27-2008, 02:24 PM
It will be interesting to see how many just went to check it out and will not join. Seems to happen quite often whenever a new thing starts.......big crowds at first, and then when the new wears off, or the curiosity is sated, it settles down.

I think without a doubt it was impressive enough of a showing to give a comfort zone to those hesitant to leave the UPC and jump on board out of a fear they might marginalize themselves by alienating the UPC and going with something that would not fly.

I forsee many, many years of WWPF meetings so large people will be stretching and straining to see the tiny dot of a preacher on the platform since they are all now going to heaven as they don't use video for image magnification.:happydance

Wink
01-27-2008, 02:34 PM
It is my observation over the years that the independent conservative pastors have a network that is very organizational if not by name.

They will travel and stay overnight for fellowship meetings, youth rallys and are huge on attending
pastoral anniversaries.

Since this new movement would tend to be more closely aligned to their beliefs, i would guess that a large number of those attending would fall into this category versus hordes of disgruntled upc pastors