How wide is the effect of forums in Pentecost?

[SDG]

The events of the last few months, in my opinion, have shown that forums like CAF, Wordshare, AFF and SynaD are having an effect in the politics of organizations and in the hearts of Oneness Pentecostals.

Am I being farsighted?

Just recently a friend said that a conservative forum specifically and forums in general were called "garbage" at a ministerial meeting.

It was interesting to see the WWPF react to forum discussions on their website.

What say ye???

[RevDWW]

It was interesting to see the WWPF react to forum discussions on their website.



And what did it say about forum discussions?

[SDG]

And what did it say about forum discussions?


Their faq before conference addressed many questions based on founded and unfounded rumors that were being discussed primarily in forums.

[ManOfWord]

I believe that the communication over the internet and if forum particularly is on the rise. It is just another medium of communication. But it is an instant medium. Someone doesn't have to be home to be contacted. You can log on when you want to. You can be anonymous and more open without fear of face to face rejection. You can share your doubts and fears without being ostracized by your church leadership. These and many other things contribute to the popularity of forums. Oh, I forgot to mention FUN!!

[SDG]

Other examples:

Ministers livelihoods and circles of fellowship seem to have been affected by what is being discussed on these forums.

One forum recently expelled pro-resolution four members ... probably marking them in other future scenarios.

Ministers are losing "preaching gigs" because of their relationship to forums.

Ministers are being threatened to be exposed for certain views based on what they post.

Chief apologist and District Supt. responds to forum attack on character.

General board members assuming aliases to get the latest scoops.

[SDG]

Individuals changing theologies and holiness paradigms based on discussions.

[StillStanding]

I think this forum is a reflection of Apostolics as a whole. It's interesting that the recent split by a few from this forum reflects the splits going on in the Apostolic ranks! :)

[Elizabeth]

Individuals changing theologies and holiness paradigms based on discussions.

You would contribute that to their involvement with an internet Apostolic forum?

[SDG]

I believe that the communication over the internet and if forum particularly is on the rise. It is just another medium of communication. But it is an instant medium. Someone doesn't have to be home to be contacted. You can log on when you want to. You can be anonymous and more open without fear of face to face rejection. You can share your doubts and fears without being ostracized by your church leadership. These and many other things contribute to the popularity of forums. Oh, I forgot to mention FUN!!

Has anonymity been compromised at some of these forums as a form to extort???

[RandyWayne]

Forums are giving a voice to all those who didn't even know they had one.

Things may have changed over the past decade in many churches, but growing up where a person was barely allowed to question, you really had no idea if you were the only one or part of a small group who felt a certain way or held a certain belief. Now, with the internet (and forums) we find that there are legions of like-minded believers. It many situations it is like shining a bright spotlight on a bunch of sleeping <fill in the name of your favorite squirmy animal>.

[SDG]

You would contribute that to their involvement with an internet Apostolic forum?

Absolutely .... there have been serious .... faith/bible-based discussions that have been eye-opening to many.

[ManOfWord]

Has anonymity been compromised at some of these forums as a form to extort???

Unfortunately, YES by some unscrupulous, un-Christian "Bet Shammai" Pharisees!!!!

[Scott Hutchinson]

I'm not a celebrity or big name,so my forum activity hasn't effected me too much.
But sometimes on a forum,someone might post something that may spur someone to consider a diferent angle on a scripture,sometimes in trying to prove someone wrong,one finds out they don't know their stuff on their slant as good as they thought they did.

[chseeads]

I think everybody is just a big bunch of drama queens.

[StillStanding]

I think everybody is just a big bunch of drama queens.
:lol True! :D

[chseeads]

That's my take on the whole matter. I just chose to plop it into this one thread, cause there's only like 57 threads that that would be my response to. lol

[MusicMaster]

I think everybody is just a big bunch of drama queens.

I think you are right.

[commonsense]

They can blame it on forums but it's just a different world we live in. People in general are allowed to question in this our modern age.
We have talk radio ; the vast amount of knowledge on the web; various rulings on information that is available to the public and of course the prolific postings on various forums.

In the 50's & 60's there was a different concept of authority. What was uttered from a school teacher, police officer, political position, or pastor was generally accepted as LAW.
When I was pregnant with my first child(70) the doctor gave a quick check, said a couple words and left. No input from the patient actually permitted.
By the time I was having the third child, a mere 4 1/2 years later the trend was already changing....Now the dr sat down and talked to me; asked if I had ?'s----I was shocked. I counted as a person!
Some of this is due to training but I believe people became more demanding of their "rights".

Because the ministry had absolute authority in the 50's or 60's many are surprised when actions are questioned today. Don't blame it on forums, although they are a great source of information (lol).

We as Americans have taken more control of our lives and less acceptance of .....because I said so!
And this applies to churches not just politics or education or medical decisions.
Yes, we should respect the office of a pastor but most people today are less inclined to equate a pastor with the same power as the pope.

[nahkoe]

You would contribute that to their involvement with an internet Apostolic forum?

Granted I searched out forums while trying to develop my beliefs, or figure out what they are, or something. But much of who I am right now and what I believe and live has been shaped by people here and at GNC.

[SDG]

Unfortunately, YES by some unscrupulous, un-Christian "Bet Shammai" Pharisees!!!!

That's shameful.

[SDG]

Granted I searched out forums while trying to develop my beliefs, or figure out what they are, or something. But much of who I am right now and what I believe and live has been shaped by people here and at GNC.

Nahkoe .... no one wants to admit that there has been a battle for minds and hearts .... some have gotten drunk on whining about the other side's agenda ... yet will not admit they have one of their own ... as expressed in their postings and other forum interactions.

Unfortunately, some have resorted to an agenda of censorship as to silence divergent views and it has been expressed in many actions.

[Elizabeth]

Granted I searched out forums while trying to develop my beliefs, or figure out what they are, or something. But much of who I am right now and what I believe and live has been shaped by people here and at GNC.
Wow that is powerful! I was interested if that was really true--

I was leaning more to thinking it was a combination of life events and forum life that would effect change in ones thinking.

[SDG]

Wow that is powerful! I was interested if that was really true--

I was leaning more to thinking it was a combination of life events and forum life that would effect change in ones thinking.

Of course it's a result of workings in one's life ... and hopefully careful study and consultation w/ God in prayer. But the forums seem to be influencing some to ask questions and a catalyst in these changes.

[Elizabeth]

As far as sharing information I think that is where the Apostolic forum's have a lot of power.

I have heard or read remarks made by upstanding Ministers, perhaps in ignorance, say things to diminish the power or credence of things read or talked about on Apostolic forums--I think that is a big mistake.

This is the information age and the internet is powerful!

We are living at a day in time where I think this scripture applies :
Luke 8:17
For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

Not everything you read on the net is true, but if an event of some sort happens it's around the world within seconds!

[Elizabeth]

Of course it's a result of workings of one's life ... and hopefully careful study and consultation w/ God in prayer. But the forums seem to be influencing some to ask questions and a catalyst in these changes.

And like you said before open ones eyes into seeing a particular view differently.

[SDG]

As far as sharing information I think that is where the Apostolic forum's have a lot of power.

I have heard or read remarks made by upstanding Ministers perhaps in ignorance say things to diminish the power or credence of things read or talk about on Apostolic forums--I think that is a big mistake.

This is the information age and the internet is powerful!

We are living at a day in time where I think this scripture applies :
Luke 8:17
For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

Not everything you read on the net is true, but if an event of some sort happens it's around the world within seconds!

Yeah ... these men don't realize that they can no longer monopolize the hearts and minds of people.

My pastor last nite ... floored me when he said ... and I paraphrase.

If I teach something ... go home study and consult w/ God. If I'm wrong ...DON'T OBEY ME. If I'm right .... follow me as I follow Christ.

He's been in Apostolic ministry for over 50 years ... and has morphed into someone who is confident enough to make such a statement.

[Sherri]

What used to be discussed among ministers in private without fear of anyone being able to "prove" anything that was said, is now broadcast on forums and emails that can be used to make someone accountable. The same things have always been discussed and argued over, it's just now available for everyone to see. It has put fear in alot of people. I'm glad that I only have to answer to God and not worry about what I say on here.

[nahkoe]

Nahkoe .... no one wants to admit that there has been a battle for minds and hearts .... some have gotten drunk on whining about the other side's agenda ... yet will not admit they have one of their own ... as expressed in their postings and other forum interactions.

Unfortunately, some have resorted to an agenda of censorship as to silence divergent views and it has been expressed in many actions.

I know. I've watched as an outsider, it was interesting. Don't think I can quite call myself an outsider anymore. :) That in itself is an interesting feeling.

The censorship, whether intentional (I suspect it is to some degree) or not (a good bit of it isn't really something people may be aware they're doing) is part of why I don't feel like I fit in here. I have too many questions, I ask too many, and I don't take answers that fit some agenda or another. I need Jesus, not someone's opinion of what He looks like. Someone's opinion never would have taken me from where I was in June to where I am today.

[Pastor Keith]

The events of the last few months, in my opinion, have shown that forums like CAF, Wordshare, AFF and SynaD are having an effect in the politics of organizations and in the hearts of Oneness Pentecostals.

Am I being farsighted?

Just recently a friend said that a conservative forum specifically and forums in general were called "garbage" at a ministerial meeting.

It was interesting to see the WWPF react to forum discussions on their website.

What say ye???

The Jeanie is out of the bottle (not talking about my wife) and it can't be put back in. I think the influence is the same as in the news media, it used to be the 3 major networks controled and influenced what news people heard and saw, now with the DrudgeReport, Blogs and YouTube that has all changed and people have access to much more information that is both unbiased and biased but at least they have access and choice. So the choice now is to embrace it, be proactive to spread your side of the story or to put your head in the sand and hope for the best.

In the Spirit of ""Who Moved My Cheese", The cheese has moved, we better move with it.

[ManOfWord]

Yeah ... these men don't realize that they can no longer monopolize the hearts and minds of people.

My pastor last nite ... floored me when he said ... and I paraphrase.

If I teach something ... go home study and consult w/ God. If I'm wrong ...DON'T OBEY ME. If I'm right .... follow me as I follow Christ.

He's been in Apostolic ministry for over 50 years ... and has morphed into someone who is confident enough to make such a statement.

That is awesome!! I say that all the time. I didn't used to be able to say that though. I just wanted people to OBEY me because I demanded it. After all, I was the one wielding the SWORD!!! What a FOOL I was!!

I know I've said this a bazillion times, but I've exchanged my sword for a towel and now I can't believe how much more authority I have. :D


The TOWEL IS mightier than the sword!!!

[Pastor Keith]

Yeah ... these men don't realize that they can no longer monopolize the hearts and minds of people.

My pastor last nite ... floored me when he said ... and I paraphrase.

If I teach something ... go home study and consult w/ God. If I'm wrong ...DON'T OBEY ME. If I'm right .... follow me as I follow Christ.

He's been in Apostolic ministry for over 50 years ... and has morphed into someone who is confident enough to make such a statement.

I have always made that statement in every ministry that I have been involved in.

[SDG]

That is awesome!! I say that all the time. I didn't used to be able to say that though. I just wanted people to OBEY me because I demanded it. After all, I was the one wielding the SWORD!!! What a FOOL I was!!

I know I've said this a bazillion times, but I've exchanged my sword for a towel and now I can't believe how much more authority I have. :D



The TOWEL IS mightier than the sword!!!


He expressed his role as servant last night also ... He does not want to lord over the sheep.

[Elizabeth]

That is awesome!! I say that all the time. I didn't used to be able to say that though. I just wanted people to OBEY me because I demanded it. After all, I was the one wielding the SWORD!!! What a FOOL I was!!

I know I've said this a bazillion times, but I've exchanged my sword for a towel and now I can't believe how much more authority I have. :D


The TOWEL IS mightier than the sword!!!

Keith says it too! :thumbsup

[Elizabeth]

That is awesome!! I say that all the time. I didn't used to be able to say that though. I just wanted people to OBEY me because I demanded it. After all, I was the one wielding the SWORD!!! What a FOOL I was!!



Keith says it too! :thumbsup

[Sherri]

Keith says it too! :thumbsup
Eddie does too!!! Where two or three agree..........

[nahkoe]

Wow that is powerful! I was interested if that was really true--

I was leaning more to thinking it was a combination of life events and forum life that would effect change in ones thinking.

I'm a unique case. lol Ok, maybe not that unique really. I'd been out of church, away from God, for 8 years. I walked into a little Apostolic church the first Sunday of June and found GNC less than two weeks later. From there, I found AFF. I'd been a practicing witch for 6 years. There's far more to what I've walked away from. Some here have impacted my life a lot. Some more than others. Real life has had some impact on where I am, but really these forums are where I searched out the questions to ask, found some of the answers here too. Most of all, I have found myself deeply in love with God again. Knowing where I came from, I'm not sure I would have found my way to this place without forums.

[Mrs. LPW]

Eddie does too!!! Where two or three agree..........

My pastor does as well.

[Jehoram]

The events of the last few months, in my opinion, have shown that forums like CAF, Wordshare, AFF and SynaD are having an effect in the politics of organizations and in the hearts of Oneness Pentecostals.

Am I being farsighted?

Just recently a friend said that a conservative forum specifically and forums in general were called "garbage" at a ministerial meeting.

It was interesting to see the WWPF react to forum discussions on their website.

What say ye???
I think this is a timely and excellent question.

There is no doubting the impact online conversation has made on recent events in our movement. In fact, I would go as far to say that online forums are a preferred method of communication among twenty-first century leaders in Oneness Pentecostalism.

I know that minister's posts have been used against them in board rooms. There have also been occurences where owners of forums have exposed anonymous poster's identities in the hopes of silencing them. These same owners have threatened livelihoods, ministries - and even the families of posters with whom they have ideological differences.

In short, these folks have the mistaken impression they can stifle free speech. They believe that forums are like their church. A church where they can threaten and intimidate parishioners with shunning, disfellowship or worse.

Examples:

rrford is banned from a forum because he dared disagree with a position the owner held. rrford? The man is one of the most conservative and balanced men in the movement.

The owners of Wordshare are blasted from the pulpit of a District meeting. The guest speaker at the conference rails at them, stating that maybe the owner should go offline so that he could build his church past an attendance of thirty.

I could go on and get even more personal, but it would accomplish nothing.


The bottom line is that forums do make a difference. Lives are changed, Views are changed. This is a battle for hearts and minds.

That is why it is so important to measure what we say carefully. There are some visitors here who may not be as immersed in OP culture as others

[SDG]

The friendships being forged on these forums also have been life-chainging ... take Darcie and Sherri ... for example.

[Sherri]

The friendships being forged on these forums also have been life-chainging ... take Darcie and Sherri ... for example.True....and Keith and Jeanie came to visit us too, and Thad came by. So have the Alvears. I have learned to love a lot of people on here!

[SDG]

AE,

It's amazing to hear the stories and anecdotes coming in about the role these forums are playing .... either negative or positive.

Of course, we must be responsible w/ free speech ....

but as Keith said ... it's out of the bag ... it cannot be stifled.

[Jehoram]

I can recall an incident from a few weeks ago when a poster threatened to report a post that an owner of this forum had made to the poster's District Board.

I found that completely regrettable and unreal.

By the way, shockingly, the tables were turned and this was a lib threatening a conservative. I simply could not believe that someone would threaten such a thing.

[SDG]

I can recall an incident from a few weeks ago when a poster threatened to report a post that an owner of this forum had made to the poster's District Board.

I found that completely regrettable and unreal.

By the way, shockingly, the tables were turned and this wa a lib threatening a conservative. I simply could not believe that someone would threaten such a thing.

Disgusting.

[Jehoram]

AE,

It's amazing to hear the stories and anecdotes coming in about the role these forums are playing .... either negative or positive.

Of course, we must be responsible w/ free speech ....

but as Keith said ... it's out of the bag ... it cannot be stifled.

I have no desire to see a "stifling" of ideas. I do think that we ministers have a responsibility to think of those who are weak in the faith.

How will our words impact them?

It all goes back to liberty and wisdom.

[ManOfWord]

He expressed his role as servant last night also ... He does not want to lord over the sheep.

Keith says it too! :thumbsup

Eddie does too!!! Where two or three agree..........

Those of us who have learned this have been nurtured by its fruit and our joy level has increased exponentially...not to mention the people whom we do our best to lead!!!!

[Mrs. LPW]

I have no desire to see a "stifling" of ideas. I do think that we ministers have a responsibility to think of those who are weak in the faith.

How will our words impact them?

It all goes back to liberty and wisdom.


I agree wholeheartedly

[ManOfWord]

I can recall an incident from a few weeks ago when a poster threatened to report a post that an owner of this forum had made to the poster's District Board.

I found that completely regrettable and unreal.

By the way, shockingly, the tables were turned and this was a lib threatening a conservative. I simply could not believe that someone would threaten such a thing.

This is despicable!!! (said in my best/worst Donald Duck voice)

[Elizabeth]

Those of us who have learned this have been nurtured by its fruit and our joy level has increased exponentially...not to mention the people whom we do our best to lead!!!!

AMEN!

[Pastor Keith]

In the US we have the right to speak, but not the right to be heard. The marketplace or audience gives us that, there is a hunger for truth, both good and bad. I understand the whole edification principle, but the scripture doesn't hold back from bot the good and bad and ugly side of God's people.

Matter of fact in teaching on the inspiration of scripture, that has always been a powerful truth to the veracity of scripture, because if I was God I would have left a lot out that didn't make his children look God.

Abraham's lies, David's Adultery and Murdering, Peter's pride and impulsively, Paul's duplicity in the persecution of the early church, oh yeah and John's nudity.

[ManOfWord]

I have no desire to see a "stifling" of ideas. I do think that we ministers have a responsibility to think of those who are weak in the faith.

How will our words impact them?

It all goes back to liberty and wisdom.



"A mind stretched to a new idea, never returns to its original form."
Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes (I think)

[SDG]

In the US we have the right to speak, but not the right to be heard. The marketplace or audience gives us that, there is a hunger for truth, both good and bad. I understand the whole edification principle, but the scripture doesn't hold back from both the good and bad and ugly side of God's people.

Matter of fact in teaching on the inspiration of scripture, that has always been a powerful truth to the veracity of scripture, because if I was God I would have left a lot out that didn't make his children look God.

Abraham's lies, David's Adultery and Murdering, Peter's pride and compulsivity, Paul's duplicity in the persecution of the early church, oh yeah and John's nudity.

Transparency is sorely missing in the Church, Keith ... I agree.

[Elizabeth]

What used to be discussed among ministers in private without fear of anyone being able to "prove" anything that was said, is now broadcast on forums and emails that can be used to make someone accountable. The same things have always been discussed and argued over, it's just now available for everyone to see. It has put fear in alot of people. I'm glad that I only have to answer to God and not worry about what I say on here.

Sherri this is a very good post, and so true, it has definitely been an eye opening experience.

[Jehoram]

I have no desire to see a "stifling" of ideas. I do think that we ministers have a responsibility to think of those who are weak in the faith.

How will our words impact them?

It all goes back to liberty and wisdom.

Let me clarify what I meant here.

There are some here who may believed we are saved at repentance, but they also believe that baptism and HG infilling are inescapable events in the life of a believer.

In their hearts they possess the experiences and culture of Oneness Pentecostalism of decades past.

They do not understand that when they post against more traditional water and spirit positions that the appearance is they believe baptism and HG infilling are completely unnecessary.

So a new poster may come away with that understanding. In that sense, we have done them a great harm.

[SDG]

Let me clarify what I meant here.

There are some here who may believed we are saved at repentance, but they also believe that baptism and HG infilling are inescapable events in the life of a believer.

In their hearts they possess the experiences and culture of Oneness Pentecostalism of decades past.

They do not understand that when they post against more traditional water and spirit positions that the appearance is they believe baptism and HG infilling are completely unnecessary.

So a new poster may come away with that understanding. In that sense, we have done them a great harm.

I haven't seen this ... AE ... I think that someone who has the traditional view might be rattled at their theological position being rattled ... but by no means have these experiences been portrayed as completely unnecessary ... the position has always been necessary for obedience.

It's incumbent, I believe, on the proponents of W&S to articulate their position better w/o whining or playing "victim" when they are losing a debate.

Perspective is everything.

:friend

[Jehoram]

I haven't seen this ... AE ... I think that someone who has the traditional view might be rattled at their theological position being rattled ... but by no means have these experiences been portrayed as completely unnecessary ... the position has always been necessary for obedience.

It's incumbent I believe on the proponents of W&S to articulate their position better w/o whining or playing "victim" when they are losing a debate.

Perspective is everything.

:friend

I do not understand the statement in bold.

Can you clarify?

[SDG]

I do not understand the statement in bold.

Can you clarify?

My suggestion is rather than cry saying your side is being attacked ... or I'm being disrespected ... if anything remotely challenges one's view

(especially if your side is known for claiming any other view is hell-bound, ungodly or in false doctrine) ...

how about articulating your position, whatever it is, clearly, logically and scripturally ... or resorting to censorship.

[Jehoram]

My suggestion is rather than cry saying your side is being attacked ... or I'm being disrespected ...

(especially if your side is known for claiming any other view is hell-bound, ungodly or false doctrine) ...

how about articulating your position, whatever it is, clearly, logically and scripturally.

Danny, you're a purdy smart fella.

I'm sure you have heard of Dos network attacks. They successfully render a server useless due to the flood of data being sent to it.

Sometimes we experience those sort of attacks here at AFF. Just because there is a flood of data doesn''t mean the data is correct.

Often it is a ruse used to divert attention from the real agenda of a hacker.

Some folks choose to just abandon this server for another one.

Understand?

[SDG]

Danny, you're a purdy smart fella.

I'm sure you have heard of Dos network attacks. They successfully render a server useless due to the flood of data being sent to the destination server.

Sometimes we experience those sort of attacks here at AFF. Just because there is a flood of data doesn''t mean the data is correct.

Often it is a ruse used to divert attention from the real agenda of a hacker.

Some folks choose to just abandon this server for another one.

Understand?

Yo comprendo. See Millie Vanilli... Blame it on the rain.

[Jehoram]

Yo comprendo. See Millie Vanilli... Blame it on the rain.

Funny, didn't they win a grammy?:ursofunny

[SDG]

Funny, didn't they win a grammy?:ursofunny

Yes they did ... for posing.

[Jehoram]

Yes they did ... for posing.

So I am disingenuous, huh?

That's gonna leave a mark.

[SDG]

So I am disingenuous, huh?

That's gonna leave a mark.

As always you read too much into my postings. :reaction

[Mrs. LPW]

As always you read too much into my postings. :reaction


May I ask why you didn't use lyp-sync or another term? Why posing?

[SDG]

May I ask why you didn't use lyp-sync or another term? Why posing?

Cuz I did. :tissue

[Mrs. LPW]

You're really good at what you do Dan.

[Jehoram]

As always you read too much into my postings. :reaction

Look, I am a new poster here with barely over 200 posts.

I am sorry I offended your delicate sensabilities.

I sometimes have a problem with reading comprehension.:kickcan

[Elihu]

Look, I am a new poster here with barely over 200 posts.

I am sorry I offended your delicate sensabilities.

I sometimes have a problem with reading comprehension.:kickcan

It's okay.

You're doing a great job AE.

[edwina]

It's okay.

You're doing a great job AE.
I agree.

[Mrs. LPW]

Look, I am a new poster here with barely over 200 posts.

I am sorry I offended your delicate sensabilities.

I sometimes have a problem with reading comprehension.:kickcan

I'd say you're not having any problem here.

[SDG]

Look, I am a new poster here with barely over 200 posts.

I am sorry I offended your delicate sensabilities.

I sometimes have a problem with reading comprehension.:kickcan

That was a generic you.

[SDG]

You're really good at what you do Dan.

Why thanks, Lady LPW.

[SDG]

Look, I am a new poster here with barely over 200 posts.

I am sorry I offended your delicate sensabilities.

I sometimes have a problem with reading comprehension.:kickcan

Sir/Madam

I am not offended. :tantrum

[Mrs. LPW]

Why thanks, Lady LPW.

Anytime at all.

[Praxeas]

The events of the last few months, in my opinion, have shown that forums like CAF, Wordshare, AFF and SynaD are having an effect in the politics of organizations and in the hearts of Oneness Pentecostals.

Am I being farsighted?

Just recently a friend said that a conservative forum specifically and forums in general were called "garbage" at a ministerial meeting.

It was interesting to see the WWPF react to forum discussions on their website.

What say ye???
They must spend a lot of time on these forums to say they are garbage....they more time telling their friends they are garbage....oh if only we loved souls and put so much effort into healing the lost and saving their souls.

[Hoovie]

Yeah ... these men don't realize that they can no longer monopolize the hearts and minds of people.

My pastor last nite ... floored me when he said ... and I paraphrase.

If I teach something ... go home study and consult w/ God. If I'm wrong ...DON'T OBEY ME. If I'm right .... follow me as I follow Christ.

He's been in Apostolic ministry for over 50 years ... and has morphed into someone who is confident enough to make such a statement.

This is an awesome attitude to have and goes a long long way toward keeping a humble spirit and heart of a servant. This is very much like something my own pastor has said repeatedly.

[Parkbench]

Sure forums such as AFF have and effect. My former pastor told his saints from the pulpit that they have no business on Everyone's Connected.

His request met with deaf ears. When ministers speak from the pulpit, leaving no doubt that they are refering to a current discussion on AFF then you know there that forums such as this one have an effect.

[SDG]

They must spend a lot of time on these forums to say they are garbage....they more time telling their friends they are garbage....oh if only we loved souls and put so much effort into healing the lost and saving their souls.

That's what is so fascinating about it ... Prax ... they complain but read religiously.

[Jason B]

Ministers are being threatened to be exposed for certain views based on what they post.


I recently had someone say from the pulpit that I had been posting on an internet website, and that he had my posts all the way back to 2008. It was phrased as if there was some dirt on my due to my postings here on AFF.


But alas, I post on a public forum, and use my real name. :D

Very intersting thread. I would definetly say forums are having some impact on the movement, in that many like minded people are able to have free and open conversation, annoymously if they choose, on many sacred cows, which have been protected like the president. Guess now we know why.

[Praxeas]

I recently had someone say from the pulpit that I had been posting on an internet website, and that he had my posts all the way back to 2008. It was phrased as if there was some dirt on my due to my postings here on AFF.


But alas, I post on a public forum, and use my real name. :D

Very intersting thread. I would definetly say forums are having some impact on the movement, in that many like minded people are able to have free and open conversation, annoymously if they choose, on many sacred cows, which have been protected like the president. Guess now we know why.
That was said from a pulpit? That's crazy and yet a good example of why forums like this are necessary to point out the excesses and abuses that go on in churches

[Jason B]

That was said from a pulpit? That's crazy and yet a good example of why forums like this are necessary to point out the excesses and abuses that go on in churches

Yes.

I meant to type "It was phrased as if there was some dirt on *ME* due to my postings" (no my-my typing is terrible)

Yeah, it really is why forums like this should exist. There are some folks who absolutely cannot stand to be questioned. More specifically they cannot stand an opposing view, and especially having their feet held to the fire for sound biblical exegesis.

Case in point: LS

How much MORE would his doctrines be accepted without people holding him accountable for his sources, what he says, and the inconstencies with the word, not to mention SEU (though I did mention it). :D

[Praxeas]

There is this church in a nearby city. They are formerly UPC. But even when they were UPC he was the kind of person that would call out people. He has his congregtion so brainwashed that some have left his church because they are sick of him yet afraid to attend other Apostolic churches in the area. He has said he'd rather have someone backslide than go to my church.

I have a friend that goes there. He left and was coming to my church. He loves it. But one day he went to a birthday party from his former church. He felt guilty seeing all his old friends and those who prayed with him etc etc...he returned back to that church. And the irony is he has on a couple of instances complained about the pastor but he always ends up staying because he believes nobody what that is his church. He doesn't even believe what the pastor preaches, he owns TVs and has cable. He no longer believes all the lies his pastor has said about my church though

[missourimary]

Yes.

I meant to type "It was phrased as if there was some dirt on *ME* due to my postings" (no my-my typing is terrible)

Yeah, it really is why forums like this should exist. There are some folks who absolutely cannot stand to be questioned. More specifically they cannot stand an opposing view, and especially having their feet held to the fire for sound biblical exegesis.

There is another reason forums should exist: those who are led by men who absolutely cannot stand to be questioned should have a safe place to question or consider opposing views. Internet forums are a good place to do that. They aren't completely safe, but they are safer than asking questions of other members in some churches.

[crakjak]

There is this church in a nearby city. They are formerly UPC. But even when they were UPC he was the kind of person that would call out people. He has his congregtion so brainwashed that some have left his church because they are sick of him yet afraid to attend other Apostolic churches in the area. He has said he'd rather have someone backslide than go to my church.

I have a friend that goes there. He left and was coming to my church. He loves it. But one day he went to a birthday party from his former church. He felt guilty seeing all his old friends and those who prayed with him etc etc...he returned back to that church. And the irony is he has on a couple of instances complained about the pastor but he always ends up staying because he believes nobody what that is his church. He doesn't even believe what the pastor preaches, he owns TVs and has cable. He no longer believes all the lies his pastor has said about my church though

There are many in these cult like situations that have no clue of what freedom comes from being "in Christ"!

[ILG]

When we were still pastoring, when I started veering from the hardline message, I protected my identity fiercely. Of course, I needed to with the lawsuit going on, but even so, no one was going to find out my views until I was ready to walk. And nobody did. I told only one person who I was. (She was a pastor's wife that was out of the UPC who also had been through a lawsuit but is now back in the UPC.) She broke my confidence. I realized I could trust no one. Unfortunately, it kept me from making some good friends on the internet, because I was so standoffish for so long. On the flipside, the forums gave me an outlet where I could let off some steam and keep my sanity during the transition.

[coadie]

There are many in these cult like situations that have no clue of what freedom comes from being "in Christ"!

Have you visited cults?

[crakjak]

Have you visited cults?

Afraid so.