Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you next?

[SDG]

My mom brought this story to my attention yesterday.

Will this be precedent for future cases? I think this is flat out wrong and ridiculous.
------------------------------------

Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter? [Could you be next?] (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1981134/posts)

Inside Edition ^ (http://www.freerepublic.com/%5Ehttp://www.insideedition.com/news.aspx?storyID=1389)| 3/5/08 | Inside Edition


Posted on 03/05/2008 7:59:02 PM PST by Howdy there (http://www.freerepublic.com/~howdythere/)

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/02/13/us/13custody.600x.jpg

11-year-old Libby Mashburn is at the center of a child-custody battle with far-reaching consequences.

Libby's mother says she lost primary custody of her daughter because she was deemed to be too religious.

[A Judge in Alabama ruled that Libby could not be taught the Bible by her Baptist mother.]


Libby tells INSIDE EDITION, "I think children should be able to choose who they want to live with."


Libby's mom Laura Snider is a member of an [large] ultra-conservative Baptist church in Alabama. Libby spends several hours each week attending sermons. On weekends, she goes to Sunday school.[She attends church at the normal times, and for normal lengths. Sunday school, and Sunday AM and PM worship, and Wed. night service.]

The church encourages its parishioners to dress modestly, so Libby's closet is filled with skirts that fall below the knee.


Libby's mom, like other women in the church, doesn't wear makeup or swim in public. When they do swim, they don't wear swimsuits, instead they wear long dresses that Libby shows INSIDE EDITION.


They shun popular culture, so Libby doesn't watch much TV. She's heard of teen idol Hannah Montana but says she has never listened to her music.
[However, as a homeschooled 1st grader, Libby had visited Nepal, and many states in the US. She also tested above 3rd & 4th grade levels in most subjects when she was only 6.She scored on a high school level in vocabulary on the CAT.]


The question is: Should Laura Snider's religious beliefs be a factor in determining custody in a divorce? Libby's mother says the Alabama Supreme Court thinks so. The court awarded 60% custody to Libby's father, William Mashburn.



"We've been punished for our religion," says Brian. "We've been harassed for our religion. You know when you take a child from people because they're too conservative to put her in a situation because that's more "mainstream"...I don't think that's what the law is there to do," he tells INSIDE EDITION.


Across the country, child-custody disputes with religion as the flash point are increasing, and Libby is just the latest kid to get caught in the middle.


More indepth articles here:

Article in the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/13/us/13custody.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin)
Our Daughter Libby, a short movie with full details (http://www.dangerousopinions.com/2008/02/my-daughter-libby_28.html)
Courtroom observers discuss Libby's custody trial (http://www.dangerousopinions.com/2008/02/courtroom-observers-discuss-libbys_21.html)

---------------------------------------

What say ye?

[SDG]

BTW, this woman is Baptist.

[Jehoram]

I have a feeling we are not hearing the entire story.

On it's face, this is very alarming.

[Sam]

BTW, this woman is Baptist.

Well, as Baptists, these folks don't even have THE TRUTH and are unsaved.
Why do we even waste time talking about them?

[Sister Alvear]

I would say there must be more issues involved...thousands of kids live by some kind of church rules whether it be baptist, JW or pentecostal kids...even the adventists have their rules along with the mormons...

Hi, Daniel...glad to see you posting.

[LadyChocolate]

I would say there must be more issues involved...thousands of kids live by some kind of church rules whether it be baptist, JW or pentecostal kids...even the adventists have their rules along with the mormons...

Hi, Daniel...glad to see you posting.

I would agree... there has to be something more! Otherwise, these children who attend private christian schools would be targeted because they religion non stop when you think about...at home and at school and then at church......there has to be more to this story!

[SDG]

I don't know ... other corroborating stories like the New York Times article states that this religious extremism was the basis the dad's case.

The court I believe also felt that their mom's missionary work took the girl away from her extended family for too long.

[Jehoram]

I don't know ... other corroborating stories like the New York Times article states that this religious extremism was the basis the dad's case.

The court I believe also felt that their mom's missionary work took the girl away from her extended family for too long.



But wouldn't we agree with that?

I mean, if the parents are away saving the world while their daughter is being cared for by someone else?

[SDG]

This is a quote from the young girl ... for what it's worth:

“I’m more of my mom’s religion, and my dad sometimes talks bad about my mom,” she said. “He called it a cult, and it’s definitely not a cult. It kind of makes me mad sometimes. Maybe he thinks her religion may be bad for me, but I think mainly he doesn’t like my mom and is using that as an excuse.”

[Digging4Truth]

Have any of you watched the video? Especially those saying that there must be more to the story.

[Digging4Truth]

But wouldn't we agree with that?

I mean, if the parents are away saving the world while their daughter is being cared for by someone else?

The girl was being cared for by someone else?

I must have missed that... where did you see that?

[COOPER]

I bet the father is divorcing; because Mom is too extreme and cult like in her religion.

Maybe mother is in a dangerous cult type church and father wants to save his little girl.

I bet the Church is the center of the split of this family.

[COOPER]

This is a quote from the young girl ... for what it's worth:

“I’m more of my mom’s religion, and my dad sometimes talks bad about my mom,” she said. “He called it a cult, and it’s definitely not a cult. It kind of makes me mad sometimes. Maybe he thinks her religion may be bad for me, but I think mainly he doesn’t like my mom and is using that as an excuse.”

That cult has already brain washed the little girl.:tissue

[Jehoram]

The girl was being cared for by someone else?

I must have missed that... where did you see that?


"In upholding the rulings of lower courts to grant primary custody to Mr. Mashburn, the Supreme Court of Alabama said the Sniders’s involvement in missionary work took Libby away from her extended family in Alabama."

New York Times

I misread this D4T.

It was talking about her EXTENDED family.

[Digging4Truth]

I bet the father is divorcing; because Mom is too extreme and cult like in her religion.

Maybe mother is in a dangerous cult type church and father wants to save his little girl.

I bet the Church is the center of the split of this family.

Possibly... and the sexual molestation she has suffered at the hands of her half brother, being left in the vehicle while dad goes into Hooters... being kept out past midnight while dad loads up at Logans...being left alone at the house while dad goes out to drink some more... being babysat by known prostitutes...

An improvement?

The better of the 2 evils?

What say ye?

[scotty]

We should agree right??

I mean she doesn't need to be brought up in the evils of the UC's

[Digging4Truth]

"In upholding the rulings of lower courts to grant primary custody to Mr. Mashburn, the Supreme Court of Alabama said the Sniders’s involvement in missionary work took Libby away from her extended family in Alabama."

New York Times

I misread this D4T.

It was talking about her EXTENDED family.

That is how I read it... that she was with her mom & step dad.

I'm not sure what the "missionary" work was but EVERY missionary with young kids, of necessity, keeps them away from their extended family.

I know they went to Nepal at one time.

Thanks for straightening out the reading...

[Digging4Truth]

That cult has already brain washed the little girl.:tissue

TIC?

[DividedThigh]

sounds like the mom belongs to one of the baptist chruches in alabama that actually practice there faith, with passion, and the dad is a scum bag, that just isnt right to punish the mom for anything to do with religion unless it is abuse, imho, dt

[tbpew]

where I live (mid atlantic), since the mid '80's, most any family court will award custody to the child's choice for any child who is 12 years or older...assuming the parent does not have contradicting reasons that already are in the public record.

Marriage is spiritual and divorce is destruction of something that should not be destroyed. The issues (reaping) that flow from these things will always be the source of sorrows, some godly, some of this present world.

[simplyme]

What whiney crybaby the dad is and now even the court, goes along; the mom has the right to raise her daughter in a conservative manner, its no one elses business; it sounds like its just the dad trying to come up with a somewhat valid point where there was/is no other good excuse to win his case, for him it appears to be an ego trip, to win at any cost. I'm sure his attorneys pressed that point, and wha-lah, he wins! I do hope that girls ethics kick in, lets pray for her that she does not fall victim as so many other kids in this country, to the wiles of the devil, evidently her father has.

It could've run either way IF the mom was a party-type gal, (substance abuse, etc.) he'd of made a point of that to win. Seems that little by little its getting popular to punish parents for raising their child up to respect the word of GOD, never mind that the Baptists don't have complete salvation truth, its a START I was baptist for many years, its not the worst thing in the world to be, for a little while IF it leads one to grow spiritually mature. the Baptist I belonged to didn't have a dress code, though., but I've heard that some factions (like this one ) do have the sense to teach modesty., as does our LORD.

[simplyme]

Possibly... and the sexual molestation she has suffered at the hands of her half brother, being left in the vehicle while dad goes into Hooters... being kept out past midnight while dad loads up at Logans...being left alone at the house while dad goes out to drink some more... being babysat by known prostitutes...

An improvement?

The better of the 2 evils?

What say ye?

VALID points indeed, but do the 'courts' wanna see that?

OF course not., and then the criminal justice system complains about youth crimes, substance abuses and such., what stupidity reigns in the courts; but what can one expect from gov't entities that think that there should be a division btwn church and state., and what can one expect from a family that is split by 'religious' beliefs, the dad wants to live with abiding by GOD, and the mother does., sounds like a normal thing these days., and even with the mom being 'spiritual' it doesn't guarantee that her daughter will grow up similarly anyway.

But in instances like this custody battle., they DO bring up church or religious beliefs/activities, in a country where freedom of religion is touted and was a basis for this country even BEING, isn't that a conflict of interest(s)? Isn't that a violation of this systems own rules about dividing church/state, yet they bring in her religion?
Hmmm, if I was that mother I'd get a better attorney.

[Sister Alvear]

I think we must be very careful...lots of horrible things go on in the name of God and church....Over the years we have stopped fellowshipping some people because they were way to far out to be normal...

I know a place where the "church" kids are not even allowed to go to Walmart...not that Walmart is all good and no bad...I have never been much in favor of raising kids secluded for when they do get out of the little or big fence around them most do not know how to face the REAL world...

[Sister Alvear]

and in no means am I saying to leave our kids to try everything without boundries...but I am saying we need to teach our children about the REAL world.

[Digging4Truth]

I think we must be very careful...lots of horrible things go on in the name of God and church....Over the years we have stopped fellowshipping some people because they were way to far out to be normal...

I know a place where the "church" kids are not even allowed to go to Walmart...not that Walmart is all good and no bad...I have never been much in favor of raising kids secluded for when they do get out of the little or big fence around them most do not know how to face the REAL world...

I think it is safe to say that she has received some experience in facing the "real world" now.

She has been molested, had prostitutes for babysitters, been shown hardcore pornography...

Yep... no more sheltered life for her.

[ForeverBlessed]

where I live (mid atlantic), since the mid '80's, most any family court will award custody to the child's choice for any child who is 12 years or older...assuming the parent does not have contradicting reasons that already are in the public record.

Marriage is spiritual and divorce is destruction of something that should not be destroyed. The issues (reaping) that flow from these things will always be the source of sorrows, some godly, some of this present world.

yes they do allow older kids to choose...

my boss raised her three kids without any support from their dad for years... as they got older, she let them go visit their real dad on Holidays. This past year, her 11 year old son decided he would like to be with dad now and never came back home.

She remarried an executive several years back, and they live a very nice lifestyle... sports cars, luxury home, Paris, Vegas, Disney vacations several times a year... they have a young son together.

The Dad is overseas w/Marines... and so through the whole court proceedings, the son is living in NYC with a step mom.. now how crazy is that???

My boss' heart was broken.. the family has been through so much as she fought for custody of a son she raised by herself when times were really rough.

I can't believe the dead beat dad has any rights...but she said she never asked him for anything after the divorce... never filed for child support or anything... just raised them on her own.

Now she's lost the pre teen.... this is sad.

Divorce hurts, and the court system is crazy today.

[COOPER]

Possibly... and the sexual molestation she has suffered at the hands of her half brother, being left in the vehicle while dad goes into Hooters... being kept out past midnight while dad loads up at Logans...being left alone at the house while dad goes out to drink some more... being babysat by known prostitutes...

An improvement?

The better of the 2 evils?

What say ye?

Oh my *gasp*

[DividedThigh]

so true, divorce hurts everybody, and those who have not experienced it need to be filled with compassion for those who have, children and adults, i was at church last night, and just gazed around at about 100 people and i counted about 16 different couples that had experienced the ravages of divorce personally, some of them on both sides, god help us be loving and compassionate, and also to defend that little girsl innocence, dt

[COOPER]

TIC?

yes:friend

[Esther]

Remember Alabama is the state that removed a judge for having the Ten Commandents in the building.

[COOPER]

Remember Alabama is the state that removed a judge for having the Ten Commandents in the building.
Any Alabama-ians on AFF?

[dizzyde]

On the face of this, if it is as presented in this article, this is terrifying.

[James Griffin]

The rest of the story:

The father has had primary custody since the girl was 6, part of the reason given was the amount of time the mom and step-dad would have her on the mission field.

It is the MOM suing to get back primary custody because the DAD isn't holy enough.

The mom's family sides with the dad that mom's religion does not expose the girl to enough "real" life.

The girls prefers being with the mom (who still has custody approximately 40% of the time).

Her quote:

“I’m more of my mom’s religion, and my dad sometimes talks bad about my mom,” she said. “He called it a cult, and it’s definitely not a cult. It kind of makes me mad sometimes. Maybe he thinks her religion may be bad for me, but I think mainly he doesn’t like my mom and is using that as an excuse.”

Mrs. Snider (the mom) said she understood that Libby might wear pants at her father’s home or go to the movies. But she insisted that Mr. Mashburn not swear or drink in front of Libby or expose her to inappropriate movies and music, which, she said, he has repeatedly done.

Bottom line, it is NOT an activist judge in this case. The courtroom is being placed in a position which it should be, and is not equipped for handling.

My prediction. Girl has a level head. If Alabama has laws like Texas the older she gets the more say she shall have. Neither parent is abusive and although most on this forum would be more sympathetic to the mom, the dad has done nothing (legally) worthy of curtailing his rights. Girl will probably be in primary custody of mom within a couple more years.

Hope that helps.

[Digging4Truth]

The rest of the story:

The father has had primary custody since the girl was 6, part of the reason given was the amount of time the mom and step-dad would have her on the mission field.

It is the MOM suing to get back primary custody because the DAD isn't holy enough.

The mom's family sides with the dad that mom's religion does not expose the girl to enough "real" life.

The girls prefers being with the mom (who still has custody approximately 40% of the time).

Her quote:

“I’m more of my mom’s religion, and my dad sometimes talks bad about my mom,” she said. “He called it a cult, and it’s definitely not a cult. It kind of makes me mad sometimes. Maybe he thinks her religion may be bad for me, but I think mainly he doesn’t like my mom and is using that as an excuse.”

Mrs. Snider (the mom) said she understood that Libby might wear pants at her father’s home or go to the movies. But she insisted that Mr. Mashburn not swear or drink in front of Libby or expose her to inappropriate movies and music, which, she said, he has repeatedly done.

Bottom line, it is NOT an activist judge in this case. The courtroom is being placed in a position which it should be, and is not equipped for handling.

My prediction. Girl has a level head. If Alabama has laws like Texas the older she gets the more say she shall have. Neither parent is abusive and although most on this forum would be more sympathetic to the mom, the dad has done nothing (legally) worthy of curtailing his rights. Girl will probably be in primary custody of mom within a couple more years.

Hope that helps.

Question.

Have you viewed the video?

The good news is that the girl only gets to be sexually molested by her half brother for a few more years. YEAH!!!

[James Griffin]

Question.

Have you viewed the video?

The good news is that the girl only gets to be sexually molested by her half brother for a few more years. YEAH!!!

Digging,

Personally I would emphatically side with the mother.

However, neither of us have first hand knowledge of that particular allegation and the authorities in the case have ruled that it was unsubstantiated.

Having been a prosecutor I have come across many cases of the child being coached and even false memories implanted. (Which watching the video cannot be 100% ruled out).

On the other hand I have also come across unbelievable stupidity on part of certain child protective agencies as far as not fulfilling their duty to defend the child!!!!!!

Having been involved in dozens of these type cases (from the criminal/juvenile side) my gut sides with the mom. However, once custody has been established it is very very difficult to change.

[GodsBabyGirl]

Well, as Baptists, these folks don't even have THE TRUTH and are unsaved.
Why do we even waste time talking about them?

I know some Baptists that are more strict than some Pentecostals.

Hey, and they don't speak in tongues and believe in the gifts of the Holy Ghost.

Just imagine how this would pan out if they were Pentecostal????

[RandyWayne]

I know some Baptists that are more strict than some Pentecostals.

Hey, and they don't speak in tongues and believe in the gifts of the Holy Ghost.

Just imagine how this would pan out if they were Pentecostal????

I think Sam was being a bit sarcastic. :)

[DividedThigh]

being from the deep south, i can tell you that many baptists dress much more modestly as some would interpret modesty, than say even upc hardliners, very conservative, i even knew methodists in north mississippi that spoke in tongues, gasp, lol,dt:kickcan

[RandyWayne]

being from the deep south, i can tell you that many baptists dress much more modestly as some would interpret modesty, than say even upc hardliners, very conservative, i even knew methodists in north mississippi that spoke in tongues, gasp, lol,dt:kickcan

All the more shame that they are so LOST!

[Margies3]

One day this father will regret what he has put this child through. When she is an adult and she pursues a relationship with her mother but ignores him completely, he will have only himself to blame.

[Rico]

I think we must be very careful...lots of horrible things go on in the name of God and church....Over the years we have stopped fellowshipping some people because they were way to far out to be normal...

I know a place where the "church" kids are not even allowed to go to Walmart...not that Walmart is all good and no bad...I have never been much in favor of raising kids secluded for when they do get out of the little or big fence around them most do not know how to face the REAL world...

Huh?!?!?!?! Don't them people know that Wal Mart is Pennycostal Headquarters!!!!! :bliss

[James Griffin]

One day this father will regret what he has put this child through. When she is an adult and she pursues a relationship with her mother but ignores him completely, he will have only himself to blame.

AMEN

And who knows perhaps it will be Libby's witness that turns his life around?

[tbpew]

Divorce hurts, and the court system is crazy today.

so hurtful and so crazy that it begs the question: why are spirit-filled adults, both young and old, so void of understanding concerning the consequences of apathy and causalness involving the covenant relationship of marriage?

Our service to each other (as brethren) seems to be so lacking in acknowledging what marriage is and is not.

Movies, TV and magazines continue to be the preeminent view-setter of what originated from a God-design. I am saddened by how many brothers and sisters see marriage as an addition to themselves rather than a loss of themselves to acquire something better. If we are confused by a mystical charm established in romance and long walks along a moon-lit beach, who will provide the instruction concerning God's wisdom in the union of a man and a woman?

Marriage is good for the spiritually-minded and a crazy complication for the carnally-minded.

and then enter in children.........

sorry for being off topic, I just see these horrible custody displays as "effect" rather than cause.

[DividedThigh]

All the more shame that they are so LOST!

really, that is going to be quite a revelation to them, lol,dt:ursofunny

[Rico]

so hurtful and so crazy that it begs the question: why are spirit-filled adults, both young and old, so void of understanding concerning the consequences of apathy and causalness involving the covenant relationship of marriage?

Our service to each other (as brethren) seems to be so lacking in acknowledging what marriage is and is not.

Movies, TV and magazines continue to be the preeminent view-setter of what originated from a God-design. I am saddened by how many brothers and sisters see marriage as an addition to themselves rather than a loss of themselves to acquire something better. If we are confused by a mystical charm established in romance and long walks along a moon-lit beach, who will provide the instruction concerning God's wisdom in the union of a man and a woman?

Marriage is good for the spiritually-minded and a crazy complication for the carnally-minded.

and then enter in children.........

sorry for being off topic, I just see these horrible custody displays as "effect" rather than cause.

I was kinda thinking along the same lines. If the Mom is so religious, and follows the Bible so much, then why is she remarried???

[Praxeas]

Well, as Baptists, these folks don't even have THE TRUTH and are unsaved.
Why do we even waste time talking about them?
That's stupid, even if meant to be sarcastic. This woman doesn't even have 50% custody of her daughter now because of this ruling. What difference does it make if they have THE TRUTH or not?

And it can and will happen to those that Do have "The Truth" if it can happen to her

[DividedThigh]

I was kinda thinking along the same lines. If the Mom is so religious, and follows the Bible so much, then why is she remarried???

hey rico what does that mean, does that mean that if she is divorced she cant get remarried, hmmmm, dt

[LadyChocolate]

This is crazy.... It is not about if she is married, remarried, or divorced. It's not about whether or not she is a conservative or liberal. It isn't about truth or falsehood. It is about a little girl who is being torn apart by parents and she is the one suffering.... and the last time i checked, God became very ticked off when people would hurt the little ones....... whether their parents were in the truth or not!


:pullhair :pullhair :pullhair :pullhair

[DividedThigh]

This is crazy.... It is not about if she is married, remarried, or divorced. It's not about whether or not she is a conservative or liberal. It isn't about truth or falsehood. It is about a little girl who is being torn apart by parents and she is the one suffering.... and the last time i checked, God became very ticked off when people would hurt the little ones....... whether their parents were in the truth or not!


:pullhair :pullhair :pullhair :pullhair

i agree sis, that is why i asked the question, that doesnt have anything to do with that baby girl, and is really not our affair at all, dt imho

[James Griffin]

I was kinda thinking along the same lines. If the Mom is so religious, and follows the Bible so much, then why is she remarried???

Hopefully this is totally TIC, but nonetheless she remarried BEFORE converted.

[Falla39]

Any Alabama-ians on AFF?


No wonder Bro. OneAccord wept in the parking lot of the vacant,

church where God USED to be worshipped in spirt and in truth.

These things happen in every state and there are people of God

in every state.


When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord

will raise up a standard against it!! When God gets ready He will

take care of those things which are against His people and against

righteousness!!


The wicked will run when no one is pursuing but the righteous shall

be bold as lions! He said that their righteousness shall be of ME!!!


God has everything in control and when He gets ready for battle, WOE

to those to attempt to fight against Him and His armies!!! I want to be

in the army of the LORD. But we must not try to do battle until HE gives

the signal. There is a time to wait upon the LORD. We must allow HIM to

do the leading, by His Spirit, which is in us!!

Victory. victory shall be mine.
Victory, victory shall be mine.
If I hold my peace, and let the
Lord fight my battles,
Victory, victory shall be mine!

Blessings,

Falla39

[Praxeas]

This is crazy.... It is not about if she is married, remarried, or divorced. It's not about whether or not she is a conservative or liberal. It isn't about truth or falsehood. It is about a little girl who is being torn apart by parents and she is the one suffering.... and the last time i checked, God became very ticked off when people would hurt the little ones....... whether their parents were in the truth or not!


:pullhair :pullhair :pullhair :pullhair

Thank you and the bigger picture as I said is this is happening more and more and is coming to a court near you

[LadyChocolate]

Thank you and the bigger picture as I said is this is happening more and more and is coming to a court near you

I know it is going to get worse... But we as Christians also need to stand up and learn our rights and stand up for them. I am a homeschooling Mom... I make sure that I go by the books because I will not give anyone any reason to mess things up for me... However, I realize that some just want to step in and take our rights away just because they don't like the way we do things. I don't care what denomination you are, this is an area where we all do need to stand up in our country and let our voice be heard. I am not one to get into politics. Even on this forum, I usually stay out of church politics and mostly I joke around alot.... But sometimes, enough is enough..... I will stand up for truth.... and if I do have to work with even other denominations when it comes to our laws, then so be it! I am tired of the minority voice of the world being louder than those of us who claim to be Christians.

I know many don't believe we should get into politics or even vote, but I for one cannot sit back and let the government take my rights as an American away from me. If they are taken away, it's not going to be because I did nothing!

[DividedThigh]

good for you lady chocolate i applaud your passion for what is right, keep it up, dt

[Praxeas]

I know it is going to get worse... But we as Christians also need to stand up and learn our rights and stand up for them. I am a homeschooling Mom... I make sure that I go by the books because I will not give anyone any reason to mess things up for me... However, I realize that some just want to step in and take our rights away just because they don't like the way we do things. I don't care what denomination you are, this is an area where we all do need to stand up in our country and let our voice be heard. I am not one to get into politics. Even on this forum, I usually stay out of church politics and mostly I joke around alot.... But sometimes, enough is enough..... I will stand up for truth.... and if I do have to work with even other denominations when it comes to our laws, then so be it! I am tired of the minority voice of the world being louder than those of us who claim to be Christians.

I know many don't believe we should get into politics or even vote, but I for one cannot sit back and let the government take my rights as an American away from me. If they are taken away, it's not going to be because I did nothing!
I know or have known of Christians that think we should hide our heads in the sand and not get involved in politics and the reason seems to be they WANT persecution....I don't think they know what they are asking for, however we have a great country here that has allowed truth to flourish and spread across the world. Why would any intelligent Christian want to mess that up? Due to our freedoms and money we have been able to do much...was that God's will or the Devils? Charity, in my way of thinking, demands we keep such a paradigm and INCREASE IT so we can continue to spread the word and bless others.

We need to get involved in politics....the sad state of our political situation makes me want to hurl though. :reaction

[LadyChocolate]

I know or have known of Christians that think we should hide our heads in the sand and not get involved in politics and the reason seems to be they WANT persecution....I don't think they know what they are asking for, however we have a great country here that has allowed truth to flourish and spread across the world. Why would any intelligent Christian want to mess that up? Due to our freedoms and money we have been able to do much...was that God's will or the Devils? Charity, in my way of thinking, demands we keep such a paradigm and INCREASE IT so we can continue to spread the word and bless others.

We need to get involved in politics....the sad state of our political situation makes me want to hurl though. :reaction

A couple of years ago, we had some voting to do concerning the same sex marriage issue. We knew that is was for sure going to pass and we had almost accepted that. It did not pass, thank God. The mayor was speaking with my pastor and told him that soooo many of the amish people came out and voted that it changed the whole thing. The amish did not usually come and vote but they felt so strongly about this that their efforts made a change and it made the difference at that time. I know that prayer does many many wonders..........but sometimes, we need to put some legs to our prayers!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RandyWayne]

I know or have known of Christians that think we should hide our heads in the sand and not get involved in politics and the reason seems to be they WANT persecution....I don't think they know what they are asking for, however we have a great country here that has allowed truth to flourish and spread across the world. Why would any intelligent Christian want to mess that up? Due to our freedoms and money we have been able to do much...was that God's will or the Devils? Charity, in my way of thinking, demands we keep such a paradigm and INCREASE IT so we can continue to spread the word and bless others.

We need to get involved in politics....the sad state of our political situation makes me want to hurl though. :reaction

To go a bit off on a tangent, what many of the more conservative apostolics out there think of as "persecution" is so far off mark that it makes you want to laugh and cry at the same time.
I am sure that many here deem themselves to be under constant attack because of their many "standards" they think they are holding. I remember Ruth Reider writing on another message board and claiming that some of the criticisms of her books was akin to the persecution that other Christians endured in other countries.
It makes me wonder who will be the FIRST to fall or give in when/if the REAL persecution begins.

[DividedThigh]

I know or have known of Christians that think we should hide our heads in the sand and not get involved in politics and the reason seems to be they WANT persecution....I don't think they know what they are asking for, however we have a great country here that has allowed truth to flourish and spread across the world. Why would any intelligent Christian want to mess that up? Due to our freedoms and money we have been able to do much...was that God's will or the Devils? Charity, in my way of thinking, demands we keep such a paradigm and INCREASE IT so we can continue to spread the word and bless others.

We need to get involved in politics....the sad state of our political situation makes me want to hurl though. :reaction

hold your nose and vote bro, dt lol:reaction

[Praxeas]

A couple of years ago, we had some voting to do concerning the same sex marriage issue. We knew that is was for sure going to pass and we had almost accepted that. It did not pass, thank God. The mayor was speaking with my pastor and told him that soooo many of the amish people came out and voted that it changed the whole thing. The amish did not usually come and vote but they felt so strongly about this that their efforts made a change and it made the difference at that time. I know that prayer does many many wonders..........but sometimes, we need to put some legs to our prayers!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We had a vote a while ago where the Govenator put some initiatives on the ballot. There was a TON of negative commercials on TV over it and little to no public support for his initiatives. Well on the same ballot were some crucial initiatives regarding schools and your kids. One, for example, can allow a school to take your kid to a doctor without your consent to get an abortion or whatever.

There were a lot of commercials that pleaded with Ca voters to approve this measure and little to know counter support. In talking to others I found that some people vote based on the commercials. Whoever spent the most money and made the most emotive appealing commercial won...that measure passed and parents lost more of their rights as parents in the state of California...

I am persuaded that the reason is that MOST Christians were apathetic and MOST voters are stupid....I mean stupid in the sense that they would rather get their political opinions from commercials than to read what the measures were really about.

[Praxeas]

To go a bit off on a tangent, what many of the more conservative apostolics out there think of as "persecution" is so far off mark that it makes you want to laugh and cry at the same time.
I am sure that many here deem themselves to be under constant attack because of their many "standards" they think they are holding. I remember Ruth Reider writing on another message board and claiming that some of the criticisms of her books was akin to the persecution that other Christians endured in other countries.
It makes me wonder who will be the FIRST to fall or give in when/if the REAL persecution begins.
Well, if she indeed did say that (please don't report this post saying I called you a liar bro haha), then that is sad. But honestly brother I see all kinds of Christians making those same kinds of claims when it comes to their theology or their words being scrutinized. They must not have spent any time as a missionary in a third world nation. That is a slap in the fact to those that really have suffered...like those people in China or Christians in the Sudan...

[RandyWayne]

I expect good Sister A to have something to add to this!

[Good Sister A]

I expect good Sister A to have something to add to this!
Yes? How may I help you son?

[MissBrattified]

LOL

[Good Sister A]

I have been told there are some carnal members here...who wants to go first?
http://www.mccustoms.co.uk/item_pics/big/paddle_Holed.jpg

[MissBrattified]

I have been told there are some carnal members here...who wants to go first?
http://www.mccustoms.co.uk/item_pics/big/paddle_Holed.jpg

I'll pass on the polka dot welts, thanks anyway. :coffee2

[Good Sister A]

Anyone else? I've been known to beat the devil out of some....could be good for some of you carnal Christians

[RandyWayne]

It's Ogatt's Sister!

[Good Sister A]

Where did Joelel go? I might need him to hold these worms down as I attempt to make them spiritual

[DividedThigh]

bring it on sis a, cant be any worse than the orphanage i grew up in, lol,dt

[RandyWayne]

Oh boy. Good Sister A is really Sgt Frank, undercover!

[Good Sister A]

Oh boy. Good Sister A is really Sgt Frank, undercover!
The only thing I want to hear from your mouth son is "thank you ma'am, may I have another?"

[Good Sister A]

Well I have to go. I have a wood shop class to teach.....

[RandyWayne]

http://www.dealbreaker.com/images/entries/nuns%20on%20the%20run.jpg

[LadyChocolate]

The only thing I want to hear from your mouth son is "thank you ma'am, may I have another?"

:ursofunny :ursofunny

I needed that laugh! Now stop this foolish talk and quit jesting around because that is a sin!!!! :ursofunny

okay....I'm back to my goofy self now........but with a little more attitude! I am ready to fight for freedom! (and a triple mocha)

[SDG]

I was kinda thinking along the same lines. If the Mom is so religious, and follows the Bible so much, then why is she remarried???


Huh ?????????

[George]

I have personally e-mailed the step-dad and I strongly believe this case is entirely based on religious discrimination with judgment being passed by a judge that hates Christians. There are further appeals being made.

[Praxeas]

I have personally e-mailed the step-dad and I strongly believe this case is entirely based on religious discrimination with judgment being passed by a judge that hates Christians. There are further appeals being made.

And this is why we need conservatives in the office to appoint conservative judges

[George]

I e-mailed the step-dad the following questions:
Does your state have an age that Libby can make the decision for herself?
Also, if I may ask, how are you funding your appeals?

Here is his, Brian Snider's, response:
Actually, the Lord has been very good to us. This has only cost us about $30,000, but I know of people who spend that much just the first round, so we feel like we've had it pretty easy. In our state it's the age of majority - 19. Even though Libby testified for herself in November about the life she lives and how she has always only wanted to live with us, she was ignored.

I think all Christian churches should rally to support this family and help fight this battle.

[dizzyde]

I know it is going to get worse... But we as Christians also need to stand up and learn our rights and stand up for them. I am a homeschooling Mom... I make sure that I go by the books because I will not give anyone any reason to mess things up for me... However, I realize that some just want to step in and take our rights away just because they don't like the way we do things. I don't care what denomination you are, this is an area where we all do need to stand up in our country and let our voice be heard. I am not one to get into politics. Even on this forum, I usually stay out of church politics and mostly I joke around alot.... But sometimes, enough is enough..... I will stand up for truth.... and if I do have to work with even other denominations when it comes to our laws, then so be it! I am tired of the minority voice of the world being louder than those of us who claim to be Christians.

I know many don't believe we should get into politics or even vote, but I for one cannot sit back and let the government take my rights as an American away from me. If they are taken away, it's not going to be because I did nothing!

CA courts just ruled that you can no longer home school your children if you are not credentialed to teach school.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/06/BAJDVF0F1.DTL&tsp=1

[George]

CA courts just ruled that you can no longer home school your children if you are not credentialed to teach school.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/06/BAJDVF0F1.DTL&tsp=1

I'm sure there are going to appeals but, at the present, this is devastating to alot of people.

[StillStanding]

I have a feeling we are not hearing the entire story.

On it's face, this is very alarming.

I feel the same way! I would be interested to hear the other side's story!

On face value, It is unbelievable that the judge would prefer the child to live:

1. Away from her mother. There usually has to be a strong case to take a child away from her mother. Normally it takes drug or sexual abuse!

2. With the father under the conditions of neglect mentioned in the video.

Remember that not only was this the opinion of the local judge, but his decision was upheld all the way the the state supreme court. I'm telling you, part of this story is missing!!!

[Rhoni]

CA courts just ruled that you can no longer home school your children if you are not credentialed to teach school.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/06/BAJDVF0F1.DTL&tsp=1

I agree with this. I've seen too many children not get the education they need and deserve. The parents were well-meaning but not disciplined or educated enough to help their children. Now, I know this sounds biased, and it may be...but I have seen too many carbon copies of Mom and Dad who live off the sytem or off the church who could not hold down a secular job if their life depended on it.

[Rhoni]

From my own personal experience. I had a very good attorney; a female who was a Quaker. She warned me that the 'religious' divorces are the worst and play the dirtiest.

I was taken to court 7 times in one year as my ex sued me for custody of the children. My children and I attended a UPCI church and my children went to the Christian School at this church. My ex, who used to be a UPCI Pastor [15 years] used the church factor against me, as well as the Christian school. He is still an Apostolic preacher though not UPCI.

The judge always ruled in my favor. Thank God for some judges who recognize true Christianity from the facade. Not all judges are against religious freedom, and not all men are jerks, although some are:)

[Rhoni]

I feel the same way! I would be interested to hear the other side's story!

On face value, It is unbelievable that the judge would prefer the child to live:

1. Away from her mother. There usually has to be a strong case to take a child away from her mother. Normally it takes drug or sexual abuse!

2. With the father under the conditions of neglect mentioned in the video.

Remember that not only was this the opinion of the local judge, but his decision was upheld all the way the the state supreme court. I'm telling you, part of this story is missing!!!

Pianoman,

Such is the nature of family law. I have found letters my children wrote for their Dad what they ate for supper and what their Mom spent his child support on. The other parent always accuses the other of abuse or neglect.

I remember my son having his two front teeth knocked out when falling from a bunk bed on our hardwood floors. They were his permanent teeth and had to be wired back in. They stuck straight out. I took my ex to court several times as he refused to pay his share of the orthodontia bill. His attorney claimed it was 'cosmetic'.

People would be surprised if they truly knew the stories told in a sequestered court of law. The lawyers get rich on the revenge of angry and embittered ex spouses. The only winners are the attorneys.

The victims are the children.

[James Griffin]

I feel the same way! I would be interested to hear the other side's story!

On face value, It is unbelievable that the judge would prefer the child to live:

1. Away from her mother. There usually has to be a strong case to take a child away from her mother. Normally it takes drug or sexual abuse!

2. With the father under the conditions of neglect mentioned in the video.

Remember that not only was this the opinion of the local judge, but his decision was upheld all the way the the state supreme court. I'm telling you, part of this story is missing!!!

As was posted earlier, the father has had primary custody since Libby was 6, nearly six years. The mother still has custody 40% of the time. So the child was not taken from the mother. The judge initially listed part of the reason for the primary custody being to the father as being mom and step dad spending so much time abroad on mission trips.

As to the video: Having been a prosecutor I have come across many cases of the child being coached and even false memories implanted. (Which watching this video cannot be 100% ruled out).

On the other hand I have also come across unbelievable stupidity on part of certain child protective agencies as far as not fulfilling their duty to defend the child!!!!!!

Having been involved in dozens of these type cases (from the criminal/juvenile side) my gut sides with the mom. However, once custody has been established it is very very difficult to change.

[StillStanding]

I agree with this. I've seen too many children not get the education they need and deserve. The parents were well-meaning but not disciplined or educated enough to help their children. Now, I know this sounds biased, and it may be...but I have seen too many carbon copies of Mom and Dad who live off the sytem or off the church who could not hold down a secular job if their life depended on it.
I agree. Maybe there should be a required benchmark administered by a homeschool association.

I must say that almost all homeschooled children that I have met are at a higher intelligence level than public school children of the same age and grade.

[Rhoni]

As was posted earlier, the father has had primary custody since Libby was 6, nearly six years. The mother still has custody 40% of the time. So the child was not taken from the mother. The judge initially listed part of the reason for the primary custody being to the father as being mom and step dad spending so much time aboard on mission trips.

As to the video: Having been a prosecutor I have come across many cases of the child being coached and even false memories implanted. (Which watching this video cannot be 100% ruled out).

On the other hand I have also come across unbelievable stupidity on part of certain child protective agencies as far as not fulfilling their duty to defend the child!!!!!!

Having been involved in dozens of these type cases (from the criminal/juvenile side) my gut sides with the mom. However, once custody has been established it is very very difficult to change.

Bro. Griffin,

It is my understanding that in order to change custody one has to show a substantial change; i.e., grades dropping, acting out, proven abuse, or relocation.

I agree, once custody has been decided it is difficult to change. Thank-you for your expertise as an attorney.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

I agree. Maybe there should be a required benchmark administered by a homeschool association.

I must say that almost all homeschooled children that I have met are at a higher intelligence level than public school children of the same age and grade.
Pianoman,

I like that idea of a 'benchmark' administered to parents wishing to homeschool. The success of homeschooling is as much about the parents as the children. More intelligent children are capable of working and learning primarily on their own. Some need much more hands on teaching and learning through following examples.

Sorry if I broad-brushed the issue. I know there are some very successful homeschooled young people.

Blessings, Rhonda

[StillStanding]

As was posted earlier, the father has had primary custody since Libby was 6, nearly six years. The mother still has custody 40% of the time. So the child was not taken from the mother. The judge initially listed part of the reason for the primary custody being to the father as being mom and step dad spending so much time aboard on mission trips.

As to the video: Having been a prosecutor I have come across many cases of the child being coached and even false memories implanted. (Which watching this video cannot be 100% ruled out).

On the other hand I have also come across unbelievable stupidity on part of certain child protective agencies as far as not fulfilling their duty to defend the child!!!!!!

Having been involved in dozens of these type cases (from the criminal/juvenile side) my gut sides with the mom. However, once custody has been established it is very very difficult to change.

Griffmiester, I missed your post before I wrote my post. This case puzzles me.

I'm trying to think why a judge would take a child away from a mother just because she was religious, and for that opinion be upheld by higher courts.

I'm thinking that when the mother had custody, she didn't allow the father his rights by not allowing the daughter to spend much time with her. The daughter went with them on numerous missions trips, so she was rarely available to spend time with her father. This may have been documented by the father.

All I know is that I would be really upset if my ex-wife kept my child away from me in direct defiance of a court order! If she defied a court order for visitation, she rightfully lost custody of the girl!

Of course I'm speculating here! :)

[StillStanding]

Pianoman,

I like that idea of a 'benchmark' administered to parents wishing to homeschool. The success of homeschooling is as much about the parents as the children. More intelligent children are capable of working and learning primarily on their own. Some need much more hands on teaching and learning through following examples.

Sorry if I broad-brushed the issue. I know there are some very successful homeschooled young people.

Blessings, Rhonda

In Nashville, I am involved in piano and other instrumental competitions and auditions. Almost all of the top performers are home schooled! :)

[James Griffin]

Griffmiester, I missed your post before I wrote my post. This case puzzles me.

I'm trying to think why a judge would take a child away from a mother just because she was religious, and for that opinion be upheld by higher courts.

I'm thinking that when the mother had custody, she didn't allow the father his rights by not allowing the daughter to spend much time with her. The daughter went with them on numerous missions trips, so she was rarely available to spend time with her father. This may have been documented by the father.

All I know is that I would be really upset if my ex-wife kept my child away from me in direct defiance of a court order! If she defied a court order for visitation, she rightfully lost custody of the girl!

Of course I'm speculating here! :)

It's my understanding the mother never lost custody per se. The father was granted primary custody in the original divorce. Once again, it's 60/40, mom still gets girl 40% of the time. Mom is trying to change original decree to 60/40 mom. But agreed, if during the time of pending divorce mom kept daughter out of the country on mission trips most judges would probably be more inclined to grant dad primary custody. And mom trying to modify the original decree would be an uphill battle.

[James Griffin]

As far as the homeschooling case, I believe this is another "rest of the story" type case.

The father was under investigation by the juvenile court. (This in and of itself means nothing!!) The parents did have the children enrolled in a distance learning Christian school, but the child advocate (who may or may not have had a private agenda) felt the kids needed more one on one personal attention.

The parents appealed on freedom of religion grounds and lost. While I understand the concern of home schoolers in California, I do not think this case (so far) stands for the proposition that home schoolers are banned OR that they cannot be taught by distance learning with qualified teachers.

Nor does it sound like a particularly activist judge when the case precedent cited goes back to 1953 and has so far been upheld by the appellate court.

[George]

:partyAs was posted earlier, the father has had primary custody since Libby was 6, nearly six years. The mother still has custody 40% of the time. So the child was not taken from the mother. The judge initially listed part of the reason for the primary custody being to the father as being mom and step dad spending so much time aboard on mission trips.

As to the video: Having been a prosecutor I have come across many cases of the child being coached and even false memories implanted. (Which watching this video cannot be 100% ruled out).

On the other hand I have also come across unbelievable stupidity on part of certain child protective agencies as far as not fulfilling their duty to defend the child!!!!!!

Having been involved in dozens of these type cases (from the criminal/juvenile side) my gut sides with the mom. However, once custody has been established it is very very difficult to change.

I have not been involved or worked cases like you but, likewise, my gut feeling sides with the mom.

[helen_febus]

A couple of years ago, we had some voting to do concerning the same sex marriage issue. We knew that is was for sure going to pass and we had almost accepted that. It did not pass, thank God. The mayor was speaking with my pastor and told him that soooo many of the amish people came out and voted that it changed the whole thing. The amish did not usually come and vote but they felt so strongly about this that their efforts made a change and it made the difference at that time. I know that prayer does many many wonders..........but sometimes, we need to put some legs to our prayers!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So very true, sister

[SDG]

This is why God hates divorce ... he knows what it does to families.

[Praxeas]

I agree with this. I've seen too many children not get the education they need and deserve. The parents were well-meaning but not disciplined or educated enough to help their children. Now, I know this sounds biased, and it may be...but I have seen too many carbon copies of Mom and Dad who live off the sytem or off the church who could not hold down a secular job if their life depended on it.
On the contrary...a lot of kids go to school with credentialed teachers and not get an education and a lot of kids get home schooled by your average joe parent and get a good education.

[Rico]

hey rico what does that mean, does that mean that if she is divorced she cant get remarried, hmmmm, dt

No comment. LOL! My mind is very made up that I am not going to allow myself to fall into the trap of debating issues around here.

[Rico]

Hopefully this is totally TIC, but nonetheless she remarried BEFORE converted.

Ok.

[Rico]

Huh ?????????


Huh? Did I stutter?

[TRFrance]

The church encourages its parishioners to dress modestly, so Libby's closet is filled with skirts that fall below the knee.


Libby's mom, like other women in the church, doesn't wear makeup or swim in public. When they do swim, they don't wear swimsuits, instead they wear long dresses that Libby shows INSIDE EDITION.


They shun popular culture, so Libby doesn't watch much TV. She's heard of teen idol Hannah Montana but says she has never listened to her music.
(http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/13/us/13custody.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin)

Interesting to me that some people make it sound like conservative OP's are the only ones with such convictions about modesty in dress, etc. But obviously there are even some Trinitarians who do .

The anti-OP's seem to conveniently forget about "other folks" who have similar convictions. I guess demonizing and marginalizing these others wouldn't quite fit into their agenda.

[MissBrattified]

Pianoman,

I like that idea of a 'benchmark' administered to parents wishing to homeschool. The success of homeschooling is as much about the parents as the children. More intelligent children are capable of working and learning primarily on their own. Some need much more hands on teaching and learning through following examples.

Sorry if I broad-brushed the issue. I know there are some very successful homeschooled young people.

Blessings, Rhonda

The only benchmark there needs to be is yearly standardized testing. If the children pass the same tests that publicly schooled children do (and they usually do, with flying colors and much higher scores), then it shouldn't matter how they arrived at those scores, or who helped them get there.

[SDG]

Huh? Did I stutter?

I don't know ... do you?

[StillStanding]

The only benchmark there needs to be is yearly standardized testing. If the children pass the same tests that publicly schooled children do (and they usually do, with flying colors and much higher scores), then it shouldn't matter how they arrived at those scores, or who helped them get there.

I'm not all that familiar with homeschooling. What happens if the child does poorly on the standardized test?

[MissBrattified]

I'm not all that familiar with homeschooling. What happens if the child does poorly on the standardized test?

If a child does poorly on a standardized test, then that may be the time for authorities to evaluate the child, and determine whether it is learning disabilities or problems with the education provided. But I think that general testing should be the initial screener, and that would allow all the homeschooling children who are receiving an excellent education to continue as they are with no government interference.

If a child is not being well educated, there does need to be "interference." It would be nice, though, if the government would allow vouchers for tutors or private schools rather than forcing the parents to put the children in public schools, which some people have a religious conviction against.

[StillStanding]

Interesting to me that some people make it sound like conservative OP's are the only ones with such convictions about modesty in dress, etc. But obviously there are even some Trinitarians who do .

The anti-OP's seem to conveniently forget about "other folks" who have similar convictions. I guess demonizing and marginalizing these others wouldn't quite fit into their agenda.
Amish/Mennonite - Holiness Baptists - Holiness Trinity Pentecostals - Holiness Oneness Pentecostals - some Muslims - some Jews

These are all ultra conservative religious groups. Whenever I see them, I don't think about how holy they are. I think about how much they are consumed by their religion. I think about how there's no need to be so conservative, but respect their decision for their own life. To each their own!

[StillStanding]

If a child does poorly on a standardized test, then that may be the time for authorities to evaluate the child, and determine whether it is learning disabilities or problems with the education provided. But I think that general testing should be the initial screener, and that would allow all the homeschooling children who are receiving an excellent education to continue as they are with no government interference.

If a child is not being well educated, there does need to be "interference." It would be nice, though, if the government would allow vouchers for tutors or private schools rather than forcing the parents to put the children in public schools, which some people have a religious conviction against.
Good thoughts! This way the child receives a good education one way or the other. The voucher program would assure that!

[freeatlast]

Interesting to me that some people make it sound like conservative OP's are the only ones with such convictions about modesty in dress, etc. But obviously there are even some Trinitarians who do .

The anti-OP's seem to conveniently forget about "other folks" who have similar convictions. I guess demonizing and marginalizing these others wouldn't quite fit into their agenda.

We do not have the market cornered on Legalistic Extrabiblical teaching.

We have a group in our area that have their bible colloge in our town.

They are called Bible Missionary's. they impose every ultra conservative "standard" on their people that we do.

From no rings to long sleeves to uncut hair on women BUT yet they do not believe the baptism of the Holy Ghost is for us today.


I have spoke to one of their members who told me Tongues were of the devil.

But their WHOLE religeon is made up of dress and behavior rules that would make any ultra conservative competitive holiness preacher proud.

You'll find very little about them on line as unlike us they realize it is an argument in ignorance to ban TV for their people and yet say Internet is OK.

All this Legalism....and no Holy Ghost / Tongues

[LadyChocolate]

CA courts just ruled that you can no longer home school your children if you are not credentialed to teach school.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/06/BAJDVF0F1.DTL&tsp=1

Here where I am, they give parents the opportunity to take the Praxis I&II test and when a parent passes this test, you do not even have to send in your child's grades. If the parent has a certain level of education, then also, there is no need for to report either.. Standard testing is required for the homeschoolers...I think it is great and I look forward to my children taking it this year!


I agree with this. I've seen too many children not get the education they need and deserve. The parents were well-meaning but not disciplined or educated enough to help their children. Now, I know this sounds biased, and it may be...but I have seen too many carbon copies of Mom and Dad who live off the sytem or off the church who could not hold down a secular job if their life depended on it.

Rhoni...please forgive me here but I think I might be totally misunderstanding you here...But those who live off of the system and off of the church are usually not the ones who are homeschooling... They would be the ones imo that do send their child to public school.....public school is just another part of the system. I find it is the more educated or concerned parent who desires to homeschool because they (1.) have the opportunity to do so with a parent who can stay home and teach and (2.) they are sincerely concered about the level of education their children are recieving. Most of the homeschoolers will often do better than public school children....and they usually don't end up living off the system....

[MissBrattified]

Rhoni...please forgive me here but I think I might be totally misunderstanding you here...But those who live off of the system and off of the church are usually not the ones who are homeschooling... They would be the ones imo that do send their child to public school.....public school is just another part of the system. I find it is the more educated or concerned parent who desires to homeschool because they (1.) have the opportunity to do so with a parent who can stay home and teach and (2.) they are sincerely concered about the level of education their children are recieving. Most of the homeschoolers will often do better than public school children....and they usually don't end up living off the system....

THANK you for saying this! Those who homeschool are usually those who have the means to pay for curriculum, outings, books, etc.

Most of the homeschooling parents I know (actually all of them) are financially independent, educated, highly intelligent, successful, patriotic, and religious.

Many parents can't wait to cart their kids off to Public Pre-K or Head Start (government Pre-K for even younger children) for one reason and one reason only: FREE DAYCARE.

[Rico]

THANK you for saying this! Those who homeschool are usually those who have the means to pay for curriculum, outings, books, etc.

Most of the homeschooling parents I know (actually all of them) are financially independent, educated, highly intelligent, successful, patriotic, and religious.

Many parents can't wait to cart their kids off to Public Pre-K or Head Start (government Pre-K for even younger children) for one reason and one reason only: FREE DAYCARE.

Hey. By the time them brats get to be 4 or 5 years old yer sick of dealin with em day in and day out and are lookin for a way to get em outta yer hair for at least part of the day!!!! :D Surely you can't fault a parent for that, can ya?? LOL!

[LadyChocolate]

THANK you for saying this! Those who homeschool are usually those who have the means to pay for curriculum, outings, books, etc.

Most of the homeschooling parents I know (actually all of them) are financially independent, educated, highly intelligent, successful, patriotic, and religious.

Many parents can't wait to cart their kids off to Public Pre-K or Head Start (government Pre-K for even younger children) for one reason and one reason only: FREE DAYCARE.

You are so right! We paid 70.00per subject per grade. I pay 70.00 for their spanish course and then more for other extra curriculum...health...Bible.....I also pay to be part of a homeschool group and will soon be part of the HSLDA. (Homeschool Legal Defense Assoc.) We don't have to pay for music instruments because being musicians ourselves, we have access to those and we have the knowledge to teach them.... More time from Mom and Dad! I have to buy clothes just like everyone else because my children are growing like public school children. They don't get to do their work in PJ's! :) Last year my children worked through their 2nd and 3rd grade work and finished it a little over 1/2 way through, so we had to pay out more money for the next grade up! They are doing the same this year.... So yes, it takes commitment, time, and money to homeschool......



Hey. By the time them brats get to be 4 or 5 years old yer sick of dealin with em day in and day out and are lookin for a way to get em outta yer hair for at least part of the day!!!! :D Surely you can't fault a parent for that, can ya?? LOL!


Lol! You know, I have a wonderful husband who has worked far far far away from home and now works from the home still making good money..... We are together 24/7. Me thinks Me wants breaks now! LOL But really, I will give of my time for my children... It would be easy to even put them in the local private christian school, but it is a blessing to homeschool! When I need a break, I go out for a few hours all alone! We work together as a family and when we all give of ourselves, we all benefit and everyone wins!