What’s the Law got to do with it?

[gloryseeker]

After the much debated tithe thread, many tried to make the assertion that “under the law” has no implications to us. Some state that the OT is “for” us, but not “to” us.

Jesus said three very important things:

John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


The Scriptures referred to here are the OT scriptures. To do away with the OT is to do away with the testimony of Jesus.


Then on the road to Emmaus, Jesus said:

Luke 24:26-27
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


Notice that Jesus began at Moses…the Law and expounded things concerning Himself


Then finally a very important want one:

Matt 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

There is a difference between destroying and fulfilling.

To think that the OT is the law is also incorrect. The law is found in part of Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy. The rest of the OT is the dealings of God and man by people living under the law. The Prophesies of Haggai, Ezekiel, the poetry books, etc are not law based, but God/man based. They were just spoken to people under the law. Thus, Malachi has nothing to do with the law either.

My questions are:

1. What is the purpose of the OT if it is not for us?

2. Where does the theology that the law has been done away with come from?

[staysharp]

After the much debated tithe thread, many tried to make the assertion that “under the law” has no implications to us. Some state that the OT is “for” us, but not “to” us.

Jesus said three very important things:

John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


The Scriptures referred to here are the OT scriptures. To do away with the OT is to do away with the testimony of Jesus.


Then on the road to Emmaus, Jesus said:

Luke 24:26-27
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


Notice that Jesus began at Moses…the Law and expounded things concerning Himself


Then finally a very important want one:

Matt 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

There is a difference between destroying and fulfilling.

To think that the OT is the law is also incorrect. The law is found in part of Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy. The rest of the OT is the dealings of God and man by people living under the law. The Prophesies of Haggai, Ezekiel, the poetry books, etc are not law based, but God/man based. They were just spoken to people under the law. Thus, Malachi has nothing to do with the law either.

My questions are:

1. What is the purpose of the OT if it is not for us?

2. Where does the theology that the law has been done away with come from?

Judaism was founded on three basic law systems. The civil (judicial) laws, ceremonial laws and moral laws.

To understand how Christ fulfilled the law, one would need to understand the Messiah's relationship to Israel. Christ was the physical husband of Israel who God married in Sinai. Because man could not fulfill the law, Christ came and fulfilled it for us. We could not in ourselves keep the law, if one portion was broken, then the entire law was broken also.

When Jesus died, the law died also. However, God's moral laws ( how man interacts with man) precedes the Mosaic laws of ceremony and ritual and remain constant. Galatians 5 gives us complete understanding as to what God expects morally from man if he is to enter into His kingdom.

The Old Testament is relevant in type and shadow. When Paul told Timothy to "preach the word", he was referring to the Old Testament scriptures. Moses, Psalms, Isaiah, and other Messianic prophets were whom the early church relied upon for spiritual strength. Of course, you must understand many were jews also and relied upon the ceremonial laws for safety and comfort even though they were no longer applicable to their salvation.

We are not Jews and do not abide by the ceremonial or civil laws of ancient Judaism. God's moral laws do apply and our behavior is now dictated according to the new covenant by which we have been ingrafted by grace. Hope this helps.

[Bro-Larry]

God's moral laws do apply and our behavior is now dictated according to the new covenant by which we have been ingrafted by grace. Hope this helps.

Dear SS, (wasn't that the Nazi special police?) ha/ha

You didn't offer any "scripture" to support your view.

[ChristopherHall]

Paul explains this well in the Epistles when addressing meats, sabbath days, etc. All these things were part of the ceremonial system and are no longer in force.

It goes without saying that the civil laws of ancient Israel are done away with...ancient Israel doesn't even exist.

God's moral law however is unchanging.

[Praxeas]

God's moral laws are reiterated in the NT. Adultery is still wrong and Jesus explained it more by including looking with lust

[staysharp]

Dear SS, (wasn't that the Nazi special police?) ha/ha

You didn't offer any "scripture" to support your view.

Didn't know I had to. lol How's 2/3 of the New Testament.

[Jason B]

After the much debated tithe thread, many tried to make the assertion that “under the law” has no implications to us. Some state that the OT is “for” us, but not “to” us.

Jesus said three very important things:

John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


The Scriptures referred to here are the OT scriptures. To do away with the OT is to do away with the testimony of Jesus.


Then on the road to Emmaus, Jesus said:

Luke 24:26-27
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


Notice that Jesus began at Moses…the Law and expounded things concerning Himself


Then finally a very important want one:

Matt 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

There is a difference between destroying and fulfilling.

To think that the OT is the law is also incorrect. The law is found in part of Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy. The rest of the OT is the dealings of God and man by people living under the law. The Prophesies of Haggai, Ezekiel, the poetry books, etc are not law based, but God/man based. They were just spoken to people under the law. Thus, Malachi has nothing to do with the law either.

My questions are:

1. What is the purpose of the OT if it is not for us?

2. Where does the theology that the law has been done away with come from?


glory, are you referring to me? If so, let me be a bit more plain. I said the law was done away with, not watching my word carefully, feeling you would understand where i was coming from, to be biblically correct. The Law was in effect up until the time that Jesus died on the cross. Technically the law was not done away with, but at that point it was fulfilled, and we entered the covenant of grace. Also I am not saying the old Testament is the law (church of Christ teaching)-we are on agreement on the law, and the importance of the other books of the old testament. Perhaps that clears up my position a bit.

[gloryseeker]

glory, are you referring to me? If so, let me be a bit more plain. I said the law was done away with, not watching my word carefully, feeling you would understand where i was coming from, to be biblically correct. The Law was in effect up until the time that Jesus died on the cross. Technically the law was not done away with, but at that point it was fulfilled, and we entered the covenant of grace. Also I am not saying the old Testament is the law (church of Christ teaching)-we are on agreement on the law, and the importance of the other books of the old testament. Perhaps that clears up my position a bit.

No, I wasn't referring to anyone specifically. There were comments by many people who allude and/or come right out and say that the law and/or OT doesn't matter.

Just taking a random selection of comments and posing another question. I am curious how people come to their conclusions.

[gloryseeker]

Christ was the physical husband of Israel who God married in Sinai.

The majority of your post was an interesting read. However, where in the world did you get the above?

I would be interested to know the biblical basis on the "physical" husband and the "marriage at Sinai"

[Joelel]

After the much debated tithe thread, many tried to make the assertion that “under the law” has no implications to us. Some state that the OT is “for” us, but not “to” us.

Jesus said three very important things:

John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


The Scriptures referred to here are the OT scriptures. To do away with the OT is to do away with the testimony of Jesus.


Then on the road to Emmaus, Jesus said:

Luke 24:26-27
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


Notice that Jesus began at Moses…the Law and expounded things concerning Himself


Then finally a very important want one:

Matt 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

There is a difference between destroying and fulfilling.

To think that the OT is the law is also incorrect. The law is found in part of Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy. The rest of the OT is the dealings of God and man by people living under the law. The Prophesies of Haggai, Ezekiel, the poetry books, etc are not law based, but God/man based. They were just spoken to people under the law. Thus, Malachi has nothing to do with the law either.

My questions are:

1. What is the purpose of the OT if it is not for us?

2. Where does the theology that the law has been done away with come from?

Part of the old testement,old covenant was changed.Jesus was the end to the old covenant because we have a new covenant in him when we are born again.We fulfill the old covenant with the new,therefor Jesus was the end of the law,old covenant.Part of the old covenant was changed because it was a shadow of the fulfilling of the new covenant.

Heb.7:11: If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? 12: For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law


Colo.2:16: Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:17: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.



Heb.8:6: But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant,(new Law) which was established upon better promises. 7: For if that first covenant(old law) had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8: For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant (new law) with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

10: For this is the covenant (new law) that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people


Anyone who is not born again is still under the old covenant law.We who are born again are no longer under the schoolmaster or law.By the new covenant Jesus is the end of the old covenant and we fulfill the old covenant by being a part of the new covenant.


Gal.3:23: But before faith came, we were kept under the law,(old Law) shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24: Wherefore the law (old Law)was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.(new Law) 25: But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.(old law)



The law speaks to them who are not in the new covenant.

Rom.3:19: Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law:(old law) that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20: Therefore by the deeds of the law (old law) there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the (old)law is the knowledge of sin

31: Do we then make void the (old) law through faith(of the new law)? God forbid: yea, we establish the (old)law.

6:14: For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the (Old) law, but under grace.(new law) 15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the(old) law, but under grace(new law)? God forbid. 16: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield

10:1: Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.2: For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3: For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4: For Christ is the end of the (old) law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5: For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them

Math.5:17: Think not that I am come to destroy the (old) law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.(we fulfill by having the new law of faith)

[gloryseeker]

Many look at gospels as being part of the law and that the NT really doesn't start until the death/resurrection of Christ.

The problem with this teaching is Scripture:


Luke 16:16
16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
(KJV)

This is why John could come in with the baptism in water, which was a baptism of repentance. Prior to John you had to have a sin offering. Therefore, the gospels are NT not the Law. Jesus was not preaching Old Covenant He was preaching New Covenant.