Revival and the Economy

[gloryseeker]

I heard a preacher today who was quoting a study that was conducted. I thought it was interesting as it relates to God and money.

The study was conducted looking at all major revivals that took place between the late 1700's and the late 1900's. I don't have the info in front of me now, so my percentages will be off slightly, but I am real close.


Just over 2% of all revivals took place during economic conditions that were considered a depression.

Just over 4% of all revivals took place during economic conditions that were considered a recession.

About 18% of all revivals took place during economic conditions that were considered in recovery - uptrending.

And about 75% of all revivals took place during times considered as prosperous.


Making the assumption that this study was accurate do you think there is any correlation between economic times and the power of the Spirit being poured out?

[Cindy]

Do you mean revival meetings or actual spiritual revivals?

[A_PoMo]

I guess this means the church is going to die by the end of the quarter. :)

[Cindy]

I guess this means the church is going to die by the end of the quarter. :)


:bubble

[Joelel]

I heard a preacher today who was quoting a study that was conducted. I thought it was interesting as it relates to God and money.

The study was conducted looking at all major revivals that took place between the late 1700's and the late 1900's. I don't have the info in front of me now, so my percentages will be off slightly, but I am real close.


Just over 2% of all revivals took place during economic conditions that were considered a depression.

Just over 4% of all revivals took place during economic conditions that were considered a recession.

About 18% of all revivals took place during economic conditions that were considered in recovery - uptrending.

And about 75% of all revivals took place during times considered as prosperous.


Making the assumption that this study was accurate do you think there is any correlation between economic times and the power of the Spirit being poured out?

Tribulation brings either salvation or falling away,depends on peoples mind sets.God can send tribulation on any person any time in many ways.Tribulation drives some people away from him and it brings some closer to him.He knows who are chosen and will serve him and he knows what will bring them to him.

[ChristopherHall]

I heard a preacher today who was quoting a study that was conducted. I thought it was interesting as it relates to God and money.

The study was conducted looking at all major revivals that took place between the late 1700's and the late 1900's. I don't have the info in front of me now, so my percentages will be off slightly, but I am real close.


Just over 2% of all revivals took place during economic conditions that were considered a depression.

Just over 4% of all revivals took place during economic conditions that were considered a recession.

About 18% of all revivals took place during economic conditions that were considered in recovery - uptrending.

And about 75% of all revivals took place during times considered as prosperous.


Making the assumption that this study was accurate do you think there is any correlation between economic times and the power of the Spirit being poured out?

I don't know for sure. I think the above makes sense though. When people are struggling they work more, they worry more, they feel church and other voluntary giving is a drain on their finances and tend to stay away. When people are able to sleep at night, are stable in their work, feel they have enough to give, they tend to be more able to search for their spiritual fulfillment.

Think about it...if a sinner is worrying about their home or if they will be able to afford food...church seems like a luxury that can wait until they are stable.

Those are my initial thoughts.

[Jason B]

I heard a preacher today who was quoting a study that was conducted. I thought it was interesting as it relates to God and money.

The study was conducted looking at all major revivals that took place between the late 1700's and the late 1900's. I don't have the info in front of me now, so my percentages will be off slightly, but I am real close.


Just over 2% of all revivals took place during economic conditions that were considered a depression.

Just over 4% of all revivals took place during economic conditions that were considered a recession.

About 18% of all revivals took place during economic conditions that were considered in recovery - uptrending.

And about 75% of all revivals took place during times considered as prosperous.


Making the assumption that this study was accurate do you think there is any correlation between economic times and the power of the Spirit being poured out?


I don't see how this could be true at all. It seems to me the times when economic trouble is the worst is when the greatest revivals happen. Condsider our own movement, look at the old time poor pentecostals and their commitment to God, compared with us. I've read over and over how they would spend all day on sunday fasting and praying, church on dirt floors, etc. They had real revival, they built the pentecostal faith in america.
nowdays, they economy is pretty good, even in the condition it is in, the majority of christians have nice things, and really no real need nothing and are more concerned with whats for lunch after church than the sinner in the alter. (this is a generalization-i'm not ripping every one or every group)

[ChristopherHall]

What was our source Gloryseeker?

[gloryseeker]

What was our source Gloryseeker?

Apparently the study is found in the Libraries of London England and was done by some Englander. I obtained it in the CD series, "Cycles of Prosperity" by Dr. Brian Scott.

[gloryseeker]

Apparently the study is found in the Libraries of London England and was done by some Englander. I obtained it in the CD series, "Cycles of Prosperity" by Dr. Brian Scott.

oh, and by the way the exact numbers were:

3.95% during periods of recession

2.63% during deep depression

18.42% during recovery periods

75% during times of prosperity

[ChristopherHall]

Apparently the study is found in the Libraries of London England and was done by some Englander. I obtained it in the CD series, "Cycles of Prosperity" by Dr. Brian Scott.

I'd have to look it over. Sounds interesting though.

I've been thinking about this somewhat within the past few days. Could it be that western minds, especially Americans equate economic increase with blessing and therefore respond religiously in times of increase?

If it is true...it might not be such a good thing.

[gloryseeker]

The teaching of this series, "Cycles of Prosperity" is very interesting. The fundamental aspect of this four CD teaching is "wrong thinking."

Dr. Scott correlates the world's economic cycles which we understand to the cycles of Christians. Look at the OT, what did the Israelites always do - - getting to sin, go into bondage, cry out to God, get delivered. It was a repetitive process throughout the Old.

He makes an interesting argument out of the book of Joel that most Pentcostals are very familiar with, except most start with verse 28. Notice as you read below that prior to the outpouring is a restoration process and then in verse 28 where I have bolded it states that after this restoration there will be an outpouring:

“Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for Jehovah doeth great things. (22) Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field: for the pastures of the wilderness do spring; for the tree beareth its fruit; the fig-tree and the vine yield full increase. (23) And ye, children of Zion, be glad and rejoice in Jehovah your God; for he giveth you the early rain in due measure, and he causeth to come down for you the rain, the early rain, and the latter rain at the beginning [of the season]. (24) And the floors shall be full of corn, and the vats shall overflow with new wine and oil. (25) And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpillar, and the palmer-worm, my great army which I sent among you. (26) And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of Jehovah your God, who hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed. (27) And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I, Jehovah, [am] your God, and there is none else: and my people shall never be ashamed. (28) And it shall come to pass afterwards [that] I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions. (29) Yea, even upon the bondmen and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my Spirit.”

For me this is a very interesting.

[ChristopherHall]

It is interesting. Was the author suggesting that economic blessing is a prelude to God sending revival?

[gloryseeker]

It is interesting. Was the author suggesting that economic blessing is a prelude to God sending revival?

No, it's not the point of the teaching. His ministry is focused on Christians becoming successful in business for the purpose of funding the gospel. His teaching a lot of times challenges the mind of believers because most believers have a poverty mentality and look at someone who is prosperous as "chasing" money.

His point in this CD was to challenge the thinking that people only turn to God when times are really bad.

[ChristopherHall]

No, it's not the point of the teaching. His ministry is focused on Christians becoming successful in business for the purpose of funding the gospel. His teaching a lot of times challenges the mind of believers because most believers have a poverty mentality and look at someone who is prosperous as "chasing" money.

His point in this CD was to challenge the thinking that people only turn to God when times are really bad.

I don't know. I think some Christians are gifted with a knack for business and indeed should strive to be successful in business and support the gospel. But not all Christians are called to business or skilled enough to run a business. So I think there needs to be a balanced understanding that perhaps some who are what might be called of the "poverty mentality" are just gifted to serve the Kingdom in another fashion. I know a humble man who firmly believes God called him to be a model employee and that his work place is his mission field. Is he of the poverty mentality?

The Christian's over all focus shouldn't be on money or success in business it should be finding the will of God for their lives and living with godly contentment.

"Teach these things, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. 3 Some people may contradict our teaching, but these are the wholesome teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. These teachings promote a godly life. 4 Anyone who teaches something different is arrogant and lacks understanding. Such a person has an unhealthy desire to quibble over the meaning of words. This stirs up arguments ending in jealousy, division, slander, and evil suspicions. 5 These people always cause trouble. Their minds are corrupt, and they have turned their backs on the truth. To them, a show of godliness is just a way to become wealthy.
6 Yet true godliness with contentment is itself great wealth. 7 After all, we brought nothing with us when we came into the world, and we can’t take anything with us when we leave it. 8 So if we have enough food and clothing, let us be content.
9 But people who long to be rich fall into temptation and are trapped by many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. And some people, craving money, have wandered from the true faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows." - I Timothy 6:2-10 (NLT)

[gloryseeker]

I think some Christians are gifted with a knack for business and indeed should strive to be successful in business and support the gospel. But not all Christians are called to business or skilled enough to run a business.

Agreed. Not everyone is qualified, but there are people who are qualified and if it wasn't for fear they could be quite successful. Those who are not qualified to own/run a business should strive to be a model employee like you mentioned also.

So I think there needs to be a balanced understanding that perhaps some who are what might be called of the "poverty mentality" are just gifted to serve the Kingdom in another fashion. I know a humble man who firmly believes God called him to be a model employee and that his work place is his mission field. Is he of the poverty mentality?

No, the statement above is not a poverty mentality. Assuming the person is not qualified to run and business and be highly successful. Then he has a good revelation. You said he is a "humble" man. Humble is obedient to the Word. So I take your statement as humble lightly. If God is giving him ideas for business and/or he possesses the ability to be highly successful then that is another story.

POVERTY MENTALITY

Poverty mentality comes about when you don't think God can afford something. People have problems with church buildings being used only three times a week, but God can afford it.

God can afford for you to fly first class to Africa to talk to one person for one hour. Most Christians would make all kinds of justifications as to why you shouldn't do that because of the cost. God can afford it. You and I together do not have the capacity to comprehend the wealth of God. Therefore, we try to bring God down to the level of our thinking and we try to save Him money.

When you achieve true "Christ-likeness" you will not take thought of your personal needs or desires. You know that God has taken care of them already. This is already settled on the inside of a prosperous person. A person who has not resolved this within them self will operate with a spirit of poverty on them.


The Christian's over all focus shouldn't be on money or success in business it should be finding the will of God for their lives and living with godly contentment.

Money should never be the focus and our success should be defined by how we walk with God. However, money is part of the equation of fulfilling our lives as Christians.

Most Christians operate with a poverty mentality and this mentality keeps them from being what God created them to be and for the purpose God created them for. I once heard a person say, "Poverty won't keep you out of heaven, but it may keep someone else out."

Which would situation would you rather find yourself in? Receiving Earn Income Credit on your tax returns or having to pay $25,000 in taxes?

Most would rather get the earned income credit. The reason is they have a poverty mentality. To earn the EIC you have to make less than about $38K per year. To pay $25K you have to make $130K or more.

People talk about just having enough as being humble. To me it's greed because the focus is yourself. The more I make the more I can give. The reason why Christians can't walk in the blessings of God is because it doesn't matter if they make $5K, $50K, or $500K they are going to spend it on them self.

So money is a big equation in the Kingdom of God. I would guarantee that those who are opposing the tithe (like you) and other forms of giving don't give a very big percentage of their income.

I guarantee that those who advocate helping the poor (like you) don't give near as much as someone like me because I am a giver. Percentage is the great equalizer. It doesn't matter the dollar amount it's the percentage.

The mentality that you advocate lends itself to a self centered life. There is no limit what God can do in my life because there is no limit on what I will give. Does that mean I am going to be the next Bill Gates? NO! But I will have everything I need to manifest the glory of God in my life.

[TRFrance]

I don't believe those numbers are accurate. To me, it just seems counterintuitive to me.

In that case, richer counties would have more revival than poor countries.
But in fact, most of the revivals, Holy-ghost outpourings, and miracles we seem to be seeing nowadays are in third world countries, rather than the industrialized West, which have much better economies.