Matters of The Heart

[bishoph]

Let me first say that, I believe 150% in pastoral authority and submission to the same. Having said that, when it comes to inter-church dating:

1. How much should the respective pastors be involved with the dating/engagement/marriage process?

2. If one of the pastors do not feel the relationship should progress, how should that be handled?

3. If the saved parents give their approval/disapproval, how much should that effect the pastor's opinion?

4. If one pastor is against the relationship based on a dislike of the other pastor/organization etc, is the couple in rebellion to spiritual authority if they continue their relationship?

(For the sake of discussion, assume all people involved are Apostolic but attend different churches)

[Rhoni]

Unless the Pastor is asked for counseling or advice about a relationship, He/she should just pray about it and not approach the couple.

One of the only exceptions to this rule would be if he knew of legal and/or sinful issues associated with one or other of the parties involved and knew they other was unaware.

[Pastor Keith]

According to the Apostle Paul the only qualification for the suitability of a partner for marriage is that they be a believer. Beyond that I am slow to get involved in who people marry, if so it will come back to bite you.

I think that parents should be involved much in this, also I hate to say it but stats show that arranged marriages do much better than what we currently experience here.

[Kings Kid]

Let me first say that, I believe 150% in pastoral authority and submission to the same. Having said that, when it comes to inter-church dating:

1. How much should the respective pastors be involved with the dating/engagement/marriage process?

2. If one of the pastors do not feel the relationship should progress, how should that be handled?

3. If the saved parents give their approval/disapproval, how much should that effect the pastor's opinion?

4. If one pastor is against the relationship based on a dislike of the other pastor/organization etc, is the couple in rebellion to spiritual authority if they continue their relationship?

(For the sake of discussion, assume all people involved are Apostolic but attend different churches)
Our church is kind of dealing with very issue right now. Her fiancee goes go a church that is about twenty minutes from us and our pastors don't get along with the pastor from the other church.

[chosenbyone]

According to the Apostle Paul the only qualification for the suitability of a partner for marriage is that they be a believer. Beyond that I am slow to get involved in who people marry, if so it will come back to bite you.

I think that parents should be involved much in this, also I hate to say it but stats show that arranged marriages do much better than what we currently experience here.

I think your approach is well balanced. :scripture

[chosenbyone]

Our church is kind of dealing with very issue right now. Her fiancee goes go a church that is about twenty minutes from us and our pastors don't get along with the pastor from the other church.

Why am I not surprised? :ohplease

[Praxeas]

Let me first say that, I believe 150% in pastoral authority and submission to the same. Having said that, when it comes to inter-church dating:

1. How much should the respective pastors be involved with the dating/engagement/marriage process?

2. If one of the pastors do not feel the relationship should progress, how should that be handled?

3. If the saved parents give their approval/disapproval, how much should that effect the pastor's opinion?

4. If one pastor is against the relationship based on a dislike of the other pastor/organization etc, is the couple in rebellion to spiritual authority if they continue their relationship?

(For the sake of discussion, assume all people involved are Apostolic but attend different churches)
I don't believe a Pastor was meant to micro manage saints lives at all. He might give suggestions but the Pastor should not hold "pastoral authority" over someone's head.

[freeatlast]

I don't believe a Pastor was meant to micro manage saints lives at all. He might give suggestions but the Pastor should not hold "pastoral authority" over someone's head.


I'm going to agree with you here Prax.

[A_PoMo]

I don't believe a Pastor was meant to micro manage saints lives at all. He might give suggestions but the Pastor should not hold "pastoral authority" over someone's head.

Ya, I'm not sure it's much the pastor's business. Actually, I'm pretty sure it's not. Well, I'm very sure it's not. The pastor is a shepherd not a Pope.

[TRFrance]

If they're both saved, and in doctrinally solid churches, the pastor should be careful not to be too heavy handed in his approach, even if he has reservations about the relationship or potential marriage.

If there are moral issues, criminal issues, or other serious issues that the pastor is aware of regarding the other potential mate, he should certainly bring that up, and express his reservations/disapproval of the situation if he feels that strongly about it.

At the end of the day,however, the pastor has to let the person make their own decision. If it comes down to it, if he feels his church member is being rebellious or unwise in the decision to marry this person, he can just politely decline to participate in the wedding ceremony, stating his reasons why, and then leave it in God's hands.

But its not his place to explicitly forbid the marriage of two Apostolic adults who wish to marry.

[Rhoni]

If they're both saved, and in doctrinally solid churches, the pastor should be careful not to be too heavy handed in his approach, even if he has reservations about the relationship or potential marriage.

If there are moral issues, criminal issues, or other serious issues that the pastor is aware of regarding the other potential mate, he should certainly bring that up, and express his reservations/disapproval of the situation if he feels that strongly about it.

At the end of the day,however, the pastor has to let the person make their own decision. If it comes down to it, if he feels his church member is being rebellious or unwise in the decision to marry this person, he can just politely decline to participate in the wedding ceremony, stating his reasons why, and then leave it in God's hands.

But its not his place to explicitly forbid the marriage of two Apostolic adults who wish to marry.

Absolutely! Great Post. If you past serves me correctly we had a VP a JCM who always interfered with potential relationships to the point of causing severe mental, emotional, and spiritual distress. He always said, "God told me", but what he meant was "I want my will to be accomplished".

There is nothing scripturally that calls for Pastors butting into other's/saint's personal business. Just like a counselor cannot choose sides when performing marital therapy, Pastors should not get involved in people's/saint's personal lives. If you do - it always comes back to bite you.


Blessings, Rhoni

[OneAccord]

Let me first say that, I believe 150% in pastoral authority and submission to the same. Having said that, when it comes to inter-church dating:

1. How much should the respective pastors be involved with the dating/engagement/marriage process?

2. If one of the pastors do not feel the relationship should progress, how should that be handled?

3. If the saved parents give their approval/disapproval, how much should that effect the pastor's opinion?

4. If one pastor is against the relationship based on a dislike of the other pastor/organization etc, is the couple in rebellion to spiritual authority if they continue their relationship?

(For the sake of discussion, assume all people involved are Apostolic but attend different churches)

1. When "pastoral authority" is extended to "be involved with the dating/engagement/marriage process?", it has been extended too far. Counseling (if asked, or invited), and performing the ceremony is about as far as it needs to go. Beyond that, its no longer "pastoral authority", but "pastoral meddling".

2. Depends on why "one of the pastors do not feel the relationship should progress". Spiritual grounds? Domestic problem? Then yes, as a FRIEND of either the prospective groom or bride, the pastor should offer advice and/or counseling, but when he begins to "meddle" in something that really isn't his business, he does nothing but compound the problem, and is seen as a "meddler" in the affairs of others. 1Pe 4:15

3. If the parties involved are happy with their decisions (the man and women, their families) then the pastor should not offer his opinions, but his support.

4. If either pastor "dislikes" the other on the grounds of church/organization, he, himself, is in rebellion to spiritual authority (God). If church/organization is a reason for dislike of a brother of the same (Apostolic) faith, this pastor needs to get his spirit right before he is in any position to offer any maritial/spiritual advice, and he has little or no "spiritual authority".

Now that I have given my opinion, I'd like to ask: Where does ths "pastoral authority" come from? Does the Bible give pastors the authority to decide who can date, who can marry? If so, the next question is: How far does this "authority" extend? Is it pastoral authority to manage financial matters for married couples? Or to decide where they live/work, who they asscoiate with? Or does 1Pe 5:3 apply here? "...but being ensamples to the flock." should be emphasized. Meddling under the guise of "pastoral authority" is NOT being a very good example of what a loving, caring pastor does. Above all else, a pastor is a friend to those whom he serves. He isn't always, in each and every situation, an AUTHORITY. He is a friend there to help, to support and encourage. If we try that approach at leading the flock, we'll find they'll follow willingly and we won't have to use the rod of "spiritual authority" quite as often. And, no, I am not a pastor.

[WyoPastor]

Let me first say that, I believe 150% in pastoral authority and submission to the same. Having said that, when it comes to inter-church dating:

1. How much should the respective pastors be involved with the dating/engagement/marriage process?

2. If one of the pastors do not feel the relationship should progress, how should that be handled?

3. If the saved parents give their approval/disapproval, how much should that effect the pastor's opinion?

4. If one pastor is against the relationship based on a dislike of the other pastor/organization etc, is the couple in rebellion to spiritual authority if they continue their relationship?

(For the sake of discussion, assume all people involved are Apostolic but attend different churches)

I recently saw an example of abuse in this area.
My daughter's roommate was dating a guy and they had decided to get married, it was a long distance relationship.
When she went to see his home church, the pastor's wife objected to a physical imperfection and told the young man he should not marry her. He broke it off, devastating the young woman.
If it is not a sin issue, the pastor, or his wife, has no right to meddle. That's right I call it meddling.

[Pragmatist]

1. How much should the respective pastors be involved with the dating/engagement/marriage process?

The pastor should provide solid Biblical teaching on these subjects to his entire church on a regular basis.

2. If one of the pastors do not feel the relationship should progress, how should that be handled?

The pastor should pray and fast about any concerns he may have.

3. If the saved parents give their approval/disapproval, how much should that effect the pastor's opinion?

The pastor can have any opinion he wants as long as he doesn't act on it.

4. If one pastor is against the relationship based on a dislike of the other pastor/organization etc, is the couple in rebellion to spiritual authority if they continue their relationship?

The couple is not in rebellion. The pastor needs to repent.